Support NeoGAF

[Snakeyes]

One of my favourite Japanese sayings/phrases because of how cool it sounds is　かかってこい (kakattekoi) I guess you can kind of translate it, but the english alternatives don't sound half as cool.

Come at me, bro?

 

[elrechazado]

I find that no English phrase or word captures the true sense of "sin verguenza". For English gaf, it means without shame, but that doesn't capture it for me. Thoughts, spanishgaf?

 

[Adnor]

"Weón" and "wea", they just mean everything.

 

[ramyeon]

A lot of the Japanese examples being listed here DO have equivalents in other languages, just not in English.

Since Korean and Japanese have a lot of similarities there are are lot of equivalents there. Counters for example are also used in Korean (Although less extreme), Itadakimasu in Japanese is similar to 잘 먹겠습니다 "Jal Mokkessumnida" in its use and Genki and 힘 "Him" are also pretty similar concepts and used in similar context (EG: Genki Dashite/Him Nae which both translate roughly to Cheer Up but more literally to something along the lines of "Put out your energy").

Another one I hear people cite often is the slang word "Yabai" in Japanese but these days "Daebak" in Korean is pretty much used in exactly the same ways as that.

It's a bit tough to say something is unique to any given language unless you know every other language, really. Especially since most languages share a lot in common with languages of the same family unless they are completely isolated languages.

 

[terrisus]

It's our only silent letter. And it's always silent, no exceptions. There you go, an in-depth guide to silent letters in Spanish What's the point? Nothing really, it used to not be silent in ancient Spanish (it sounded like F IIRC).

EDIT: I lie, the letter U is silent in these cases: Que, qui, gue, gui. Unless it looks like this: Ü. And that's it.

So why not get rid of it then?

Think of all the money you'll save on ink and paper by not having to write it!

 

[Haly]

I guess the title would be more accurate to say "family of languages", because these concepts can translate across shared roots, but not between different roots.

 

[Snakeyes]

I find that no English phrase or word captures the true sense of "sin verguenza". For English gaf, it means without shame, but that doesn't capture it for me. Thoughts, spanishgaf?

French GAF here, but I can probably answer this one. "Sin verguenza" is the same expression as "sans vergogne" in French, which basically means "no qualms".

 

[Mariah Carey]

Awkward: It intrigues me when a different language describes an emotion that has no direct translation into yours. The spanish word Vergüenza (shame) is not quite the same. I fail to find a word in Spanish that translates directly into "lacking of social grace to the point of being mildly uncomfortable / comical". Perhaps us Spanish-speakers do not have any concept of akward and thus, we are less likely to feel that way? Or does it works backwards? *scratches head*

"Awkward" has a much broader definition than you seem to be suggesting. It just means ungraceful or uncomfortable depending on the context. There doesn't have to be a social component at all.

 

[elrechazado]

French GAF here, but I can probably answer this one. Sans vergogne basically means "no qualms".

I'd say it almost is a combination of the uk English word cheeky and the concept of bold shamelessness. Is that similar to the French equivalent?
I realize as a direct translation and etymology they are the same, but is the usage the same?

 

[Biff]

There's at least one tribe that exists without the concept of time.

It's so far removed from my reality that I can't even articulate the idea. And this article kinda tries, but fails as well.

 

[Snakeyes]

I'd say it almost is a combination of the uk English word cheeky and the concept of bold shamelessness. Is that similar to the French equivalent?
I realize as a direct translation and etymology they are the same, but is the usage the same?

Yeah, it's pretty much the same thing.

 

[HarryKS]

I'd say "béguin" in French is close to the meaning of crush.

I would agree. It's close but not exactly the same though. I'm a francophone myself and I wouldn't go as far as to say as it's entirely similar.

Il y a quelques petites nuances.

Also, I don't think I've ever heard the expression used outside of the States or Canada.

 

[IceCold]

French GAF here, but I can probably answer this one. "Sin verguenza" is the same expression as "sans vergogne" in French, which basically means "no qualms".

Sans honte is more commonly used though.

 

[345triangle]

There's at least one tribe that exists without the concept of time.

It's so far removed from my reality that I can't even articulate the idea. And this article kinda tries, but fails as well.

different tribe, but this is a popular conception that has been completely debunked by linguists. it's actually a good example of what i was saying before about the distinction between words and concepts. i haven't read that particular study but i'd be surprised if it credibly said what that article claims.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hopi_time_controversy

(edit: according to this link, one of the amondawa study's authors said as much. "We would strongly disavow any interpretation of the data that we present that would exoticize the Amondawa by suggesting that they are a ‘People without Time’.")

again: there's no such thing as a concept unique to one language. words don't dictate our thoughts, they just provide a way to express them. and it's dangerous to suggest that people are somehow limited in thought because of the language they speak.

 

[SecretMoblin]

So why not get rid of it then?

Think of all the money you'll save on ink and paper by not having to write it!

like any other linguistic holdout, it's a remnant of the older forms of the language and helps mark the word as distinct; it's like why so many complain about English and its high/rough/knife/etc. spellings, think of the mess if we spelled all the homophones the same way!


French is sort of cute about it because they recognized the language change but kept in markers of older forms, which is why so many written letters are unpronounced -- you also have the circumflex which often indicates a lost 's':
hôpital (fr) -> hospital (en)
fenêtre (fr) -> fenestra (la) -> Fenster (de) -> the latin remains in a few English words like "defenestration"
forêt (fr) -> forest (en)

etc.


...spelling reforms are often weird because they have to reconcile so many things

 

[sasimirobot]

Ah, okay.

Well, no, not exactly. Umami is more than "just" a flavor, it is now considered one of the cardinal chemicals the human tongue is capable of detecting where once it wasn't before. The closest analogue is savory, but the Western world didn't quite recognize the reaction to glutamate as its own "taste", nor did the culinary world in general identify umami's mechanism of action, until quite recently.

Take describing wine for example:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_tasting_descriptors

I'm just saying stuff like "umami" isn't some mysterious taste you can only understand by moving kyoto and learning calligraphy. Just stick your finger in a bag of msg/ajinomoto and there you go.

 

[Haly]

I'm just saying stuff like "umami" isn't some mysterious taste you can only understand by moving kyoto and learning calligraphy. Just stick your finger in a bag of msg/ajinomoto and there you go.

Yeah, obviously.

I don't really hold with mysticism of the "Other" either. Just that, when I was a kid, before I learned about the chemical mechanics of 'umami', I wouldn't have been able to adequately explain what "xian" meant to an American who wasn't also a chef or someone who works with food, whereas it is an integral part of Chinese cuisine so almost everyone there knows what I mean by "xian". I think that's what this thread is about.

 

[Thorakai]

Spanish: "Ni modo". I don't think "it's hopeless" or "can't be helped" are quite the same. Also, "pues" - I always tell my Japanese relatives to pretend we didn't say "pues" since it doesn't really mean anything, it's just a filler word that sometimes adds emphasis.

How about "Oh well" for ni modo? I'm not entirely familiar with the range of uses for ni modo to say definitively.

One word that gave me trouble in Spanish was "desvelado." My relatives would ask me if I was "desvelado" and I thought it meant hungover, but apparently it meant lacking in sleep. I couldn't think of an English word to describe that succinctly, tired is a bit too broad from my understanding.

 

[gutter_trash]

Saudade

s a Portuguese word that has no direct translation in English. It describes a deep emotional state of nostalgic or profound melancholic longing for an absent something or someone that one loves. Moreover, it often carries a repressed knowledge that the object of longing may never return.[2] A stronger form of saudade may be felt towards people and things whose whereabouts are unknown, such as a lost lover, or a family member who has gone missing.

 

[ili0926]

One of my favourites of all time:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Kenjataimu

"(Noun) ( slang) Japanese word meaning : Period of clear thoughts when a man is free from sexual desires after having an orgasm

Translates literally from Kenja 賢者 ( Sage ) and Taimu タイム ( Time )"

 

[TAJ]

I can't think of anything truly unique that hasn't been mentioned, but my boss is always telling me that certain words I use have no equivalent in his native languages.
For example, there is no word in Arabic or Farsi for "loft".

 

[Fritz]

Crush in American English. As in to have a crush on someone.

There is being "verknallt" in German which means the same thing.

 

[speculawyer]

The German word kummerspeck is the best. It means weight gained because you ate more due to sadness. Translated literally? Grief bacon.

Schadenfreude. Only the Germans could come with a word for that.

 

[hateradio]

How about "Oh well" for ni modo? I'm not entirely familiar with the range of uses for ni modo to say definitively.

One word that gave me trouble in Spanish was "desvelado." My relatives would ask me if I was "desvelado" and I thought it meant hungover, but apparently it meant lacking in sleep. I couldn't think of an English word to describe that succinctly, tired is a bit too broad from my understanding.

Ni modo for me just means "it doesn't (really) matter." "Oh well" definitely fits.

Desvelado is the way that a person looks or feels "after the fact of not being able to sleep (intentionally or otherwise)." Hungover would be a good reference, without the drinking involved.

"Burning the candles at both ends" definitely has a similar tone to it.

 

[Loofy]

Do other languages have an equivalent to 'selfie?'

 

[TheDeadHeroAlistair]

Out of all the languages I've studied, which admittedly isn't all that much, Xhosa (and presumably Zulu, as they are closely related) have some uniqueness to them. First is the word "Ubuntu," which is more of a philosophy, but I haven't found a direct translation that carries the same connotation.

Another is greetings. Presumably other languages have this as well, but in Xhosa, you greet a single person differently than you would a group. "Molo" is a greeting for one person, while "molweni" is used for more than one person. Same for "how are you?", which is "unjani" for one person and "ninjani" for more than one person.

 

[m3k]

I learnt at uni that eskimo/Inuit people have about 17 different words for ice

where as English has about 5

i always liked that example, we were learning about dying languages and the loss of concepts that go with them. I'm sure there is a TED talk on preserving culture which touches on preserving culture and concepts that are unique.

 

[TemplaerDude]

Spoiler

I love this fun piece

Just knowing there is a word for this, even if it's in German, is comforting.

 

[Banzai]

I never knew how to translate "that was random" into german. Like for example you walk down the street and see a pitbull terrier ride a skateboard towards you, hand you a five bucks and drive off singing the national anthem of china.
You could say "That was random", but theres no literal translation for that in german as far as i know. willkürlich? nicht ganz.

 

[Osahi]

I've never seen it spelled as granade, I would have to look it up to see if there are variants. Tomato is pomme d'amour or pomme de morte, depending on who you ask.

My French isn't as great as it should be (I understand it pretty good, but I'm really uncomfortable talking. But I have the basics, so I should easily become fluent if I was obliged to speak it for two months or so), but tomate is just une tomate.

Pomme d' amour is a candy. A sugar coated apple they sell at carnivals:

Seriously sweet toothbreaking shit. (Never eat one myself, it looks yukkie to me. But they sell it on the bigger carnivals and fairs here in Belgium too)

I have no idea wath Pomme de Morte is (Apple of Death?)

So, Tomate it is. Like in tomate crevette. (Tomato with shrimps) Sweet, sweet, dish:

Pomme the Terre is potato though. Apple of the earth. Like in Dutch: Aardappel. (Earthapple) Although in Flanders we just say patat (in The Netherlands "patat" is French Fries, in flanders we say frieten (and they are Belgian for peets sake). What cultural differences can do to a language)

And orgasm? Le petit mort aka the little death, ahaha. French is crazy.

Same with Le Petit Mort. It is a poetic term for orgasm, but it's hardly the word the French use for orgasm. They'll use orgasme in a normal conversation.

Notwithstanding French is a beautiful language with many poetic words and expressions.

Anyway, I'm not sure if there is an English translation voor the Flemish word goesting. (Maybe my English vocabulary isn't broad enough).

It means the craving for something, but not in a needy way. So "Ik heb goesting in chocolade" is "I feel like chocolate" (but goesting is a noun). I really love the sound of the word too. You pronounce it like GOO - STING, but with a soft g (Not sure if you use that in English.

Also, sometimes it's funny if a language doesn't have a word for something that is in fact really comon. We can't translate 'siblings' to Dutch for instance. There isn't a word to name the collective of brothers and sisters. So "I'm taking my siblings to sea" is "Ik neem mijn broers en zussen naar de zee"

 

[Thoraxes]

I'm a fan of the word grundgestalt and how it's traveled outside of music where it was coined.

 

[Walshicus]

German has a bunch of great untranslatable words:

Schadenfreude: pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others

Epicaricacy is the translation of Schadenfreude.

 

[SecretMoblin]

I learnt at uni that eskimo/Inuit people have about 17 different words for ice

where as English has about 5

i always liked that example, we were learning about dying languages and the loss of concepts that go with them. I'm sure there is a TED talk on preserving culture which touches on preserving culture and concepts that are unique.

yeah this is one of those linguistics things that's a popular (somewhat mis-)conception, usually in discussions about sapir-whorf

still kinda neat but not exactly what people are usually trying to say when citing that statistic



the two TED talks I've seen regarding language "preservation" are this one from Suzanne Talhouk (in Arabic with subtitles) regarding Arabic preservation and pride and this one from an English teacher in Dubai about showing respect for non-native English speakers; neither are very good imo

 

[Des0lar]

Fernweh (German): The opposite of being homesick. Longing for travel and experiences in far away places. (lit.: far / afar - woe/hurt)

Epicaricacy is the translation of Schadenfreude.

But then again it's more Greek than it is English.

 

[marvelharvey]

Do any other languages use tmesis when constructing phrases?

Tmesis is a linguistic phenomenon in which a word or phrase is separated into two parts, with other words interrupting between them

Example: Abso-fucking-lutely

 

[Kinokou]

again: there's no such thing as a concept unique to one language. words don't dictate our thoughts, they just provide a way to express them. and it's dangerous to suggest that people are somehow limited in thought because of the language they speak.

I'm no professor but I have never thought of linguistic relativity as a tool to rank people as lesser because their language lacks an efficient way to express a concept.
But if that was how it was being used I can see why it fell out of favor.

I think of it as speakers of a language need or value a thing in a way that makes us use the concept often and thus have need of a good word for it, like us Norwegians having some very detailed snow words.
That also ties in with trend words, it's not like people didn't take selfies before but at this point it has become a act that is more spread out and with more value so now it has it's own word.

But there are a lot more to linguistic relativity than having or not having a word for a thing, when Whorf first "discovered" it, it was in relation to people behaving differently around things depending on the word for it sounded flammable or not.

Also, here are two cracked articles about language I enjoyed reading in the past:
http://www.cracked.com/article_20744_5-surprising-ways-your-language-affects-how-you-think.html
http://www.cracked.com/article_18823_5-insane-ways-words-can-control-your-mind.html

 

[EVOL 100%]

A lot of more unique aspects or concepts in Japanese exists in Korean and vice versa although there are obviously exceptions. Makes sense though, they're like bizzaro versions of each other

Fernweh (German): The opposite of being homesick. Longing for travel and experiences in far away places. (lit.: far / afar - woe/hurt)

This is in Korean too, it's called 역마살 yeogmasal

One unique concept in the Korean language is Han.

From Wikipedia:

Han or Haan[1] is a concept in Korean culture attributed as a unique Korean cultural trait. Han denotes a collective feeling of oppression and isolation in the face of overwhelming odds. It connotes aspects of lament and unavenged injustice.

The minjung theologian Suh Nam-dong describes han as a "feeling of unresolved resentment against injustices suffered, a sense of helplessness because of the overwhelming odds against one, a feeling of acute pain in one's guts and bowels, making the whole body writhe and squirm, and an obstinate urge to take revenge and to right the wrong—all these combined."[2]

In some occasions, anthropologists have recognized han as a culture-specific medical condition whose symptoms include dyspnea, heart palpitation, and dizziness.

...

Although the modern Chinese cognate 恨 means more simply hatred, animosity, or resentment; the classical definition of 恨 is often translated as 'regret' or 'unfulfilled vengeance', which more closely correlates with the Korean sentiment of 'Han'.[8]

 

[Des0lar]

Do any other languages use tmesis when constructing phrases?
Example: Abso-fucking-lutely

German uses Tmesis, but in regards to splitting single words... I guess it's possible but haven't heard a lot of people use it.

 

[out0v0rder]

in spanish, inanimate objects have a sex/gender.

 

[Calvero]

Saudade is a Portuguese word for the feeling of missing someone or something, supposedly no other language has such a word.

Was going to say this one. Such a good word!

 

[Chairmanchuck]

in spanish, inanimate objects have a sex/gender.

In german every noun has a gender

 

[EVOL 100%]

in spanish, inanimate objects have a sex/gender.

German has this too.

Man this thread is so good.

edit: beaten

 

[Ikael]

Wow, great responses, guys! Gotta love GAF's cosmopolitan nature

since most people are going for words rather than concepts, I've always been sort of fascinated by languages that have entirely different conceptual systems...

[*]the Tuyuca language requires evidentiality when making a statement; that is, you need to indicate how you know the information and its reliability

Wow, that's truthly fascinating, indeed! It would seem to me that Tuyuca language would make for a society where journalistic integrity is a thing evidential languages are an incredible concept that would have helped a lot in our overinformed world, me thinks.

Congrats, you've independently posited the Sapir–Whorf hypothesis! It's fun to think about. Unfortunately, it fell out of favor decades ago as either totally false or at best very weak.

Hahaha, well, great minds thinks alike but after reading books about neurolingüistics it seems that it works backwards: our language shapes and filters our reality and thus, our perception of it, rather than being the other way around.

That means that for example, that if the Russian language makes a distinction between dark blue and light blue, Russians will become more apt than other people at distinguishing these two colors due to how the language wired their neurons, not the other way around (Russians having eyes specialized in seeing the colour blue and thus, creating different words for its many shades as a latter thought).

Yeah, obviously.

I don't really hold with mysticism of the "Other" either. Just that, when I was a kid, before I learned about the chemical mechanics of 'umami', I wouldn't have been able to adequately explain what "xian" meant to an American who wasn't also a chef or someone who works with food, whereas it is an integral part of Chinese cuisine so almost everyone there knows what I mean by "xian". I think that's what this thread is about.

Yup, exactly! Also, it is extremely useful to learn about these foreign taste descriptors. For example, I think that it is great that the word "umami" is being used in my country in order to better describe many of our traditional Spanish dishes, even if the word was Japanese on its origin. I think that it would be great if we would adopt more foreign un-translatabl concepts, for it would expand and enrich our conceptual spectrum.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...e-has-no-calendar-and-no-concept-of-time.html

A language with no concept of dates or time? This seems very apt for our bureaucratic aparatus to learn

I think "incomodo" is a direct translation of Awkward?

edit: ok not direct, but i think they mean the same thing?

Nope, "incómodo" means "uncomfortable", it doesn't have the social connotations of "awkward".

Temor is fear. Miedo is afraid. Bad example.

Temor is not fear. Fear = Miedo. Afraid = Asustado / asustar

 

[Mac_Lane]

Same with Le Petit Mort. It is a poetic term for orgasm, but it's hardly the word the French use for orgasm. They'll use orgasme in a normal conversation.

Well, death being feminine in French, we say "La petite mort".

 

[Kinokou]

in spanish, inanimate objects have a sex/gender.

Norwegian does this too, but we have three genders. Male, female and neuter. Some dialects and written forms however use just two, but then it's neuter and combined male and female (utrum).

According to danish Wikipedia a lot of languages have the three gender system, but it doesn't say if they have the choice between two different systems like we have.

Edit: but despite having neuter and utrum as grammatical genders we don't have a third gender option in passports. You'd think we would be more open to it with that system, but nope. Kudos to any country with this option.

 

[itxaka]

So why not get rid of it then?

Think of all the money you'll save on ink and paper by not having to write it!

Because hola and ola are different words with different meanings.

 

[kabel]

some german words here:

"Zeitgeist" - describes the way of thinking and feeling of a certain period

"Backpfeifengesicht" - a face badly in need of a fist

"Weltschmerz" - denotes the kind of feeling experienced by someone who understands that physical reality can never satisfy the demands of the mind

 

[Osahi]

Well, death being feminine in French, we say "La petite mort".

Told you my French wasn't all that great. I'm having lots of problems with verbs, especially in past tenses, and feminine and masculinity. In Dutch we have it to a lesser extent (adjectives don't have femine or masculine forms)

 

[Two Words]

There really should be a language learning OT in Off Topic Community.

 

[Chuckie]

English doesn't have a word for feeling embarrassment for someone who has no shame. Like when you pass by a furry convention and you just feel embarrassment crawling up your spine and churning in your gut, but you're not the one that should be embarrassed, it should be the adult in the anatomically correct Sonic costume.

"Cringe" is close, but it doesn't describe the emotion; cringing is the reaction TO the emotion.

Us Dutchies call that 'plaatsvervangende schaamte' which roughly translates as 'place-replacing shame'