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World of Warcraft Patch 4.0.1: This changes everything!
- Thread starter notworksafe
- Start date
notworksafe
Member
Variety in playstyle? I suppose that's why they redid the entire talent and glyph system while at the same time adding new spells and neat tricks for every class and spec in the game.etiolate said:
Most (older) MMOs have ~10 classes. This game basically has:etiolate said:
3 Druids.
2 Death Knights.
1 Mage.
2 Priests.
1 Warlock.
3 Paladins.
2 Warriors.
3 Shaman.
1 Hunter.
1 Rogue.
That's 19 different playstyles. That's not even including specs, that's just completely different playstyles within a class (Shaman: Melee + Caster + Healer = 3). If you want to throw in that every tree is different (Mage: Arcane + Frost + Fire = 3), then they have to balance 30.
I can't even think of a PVP-centric game with thirty classes. Balancing such a thing is nearly impossible, and you want to toss in hybrids? That would require hundreds of classes to balance. Impossible. If they didn't care so much about PVP, then sure, go for it. But with PVP and how prevalent it is in this game, it's just not feasible. Not trolling, just wondering how you would even think that balancing so many combinations would be possible.
funkmastergeneral
Banned
Brazil said:
Blizzard never intended for hybrid build to be viable and wanted them out of the game.
notworksafe said:
:lol There's really not much variety to be had in what you just listed and you know that. It's similar to what is already in the game, minus any possible hybrid build. Granted, they couldn't come up with many viable talent trees to allow variety, but it's strange to praise a feature being removed.
Einbroch: Unfortunately, many of the classes in WoW play the same. Every caster is ____bolt casting. There is slight alterations in rotations, but they all feel quite close. The melee classes at least feel different or at least more different.
notworksafe
Member
4.0.1 is the pre-Cata event. Will probably start in a week or two and lead up to 4.0.3 which is the actually Cataclysm.Lumine said:I really want to play, but I think I'll hold out just a bit longer with resubscribing. Maybe until 4.03 or Cataclysm. Perhaps until Christmas.
I'm guessing the pre-release events come with 4.03? How about that troll/gnome hometown event? Or is that coming with 4.01? I'm guessing all of them end on 7/12? I'm contemplating resubbing for it, but I don't know if it'll be worth it. The pre-release event for Wrath with the zombie curse was fun, but I still had a subscription running at the time and I wouldn't have considered it worth it to resub just for that.
Pre-Cata event is neat, too. It's (spoilers here kids)
basically an invasion of SW and Org by the Twilight Cult as they proclaim the end of the world. Then a few times a day the capitals are invaded by Elementals and other monsters, who you have to beat down to save your city. Once the city is safe, special bosses are activated in dungeons all over the world that you have to kill to try and stop Deathwing from coming back (they also drop sweet level 80 gear). In the end you fail and the Cataclysm happens just as the servers go down and 4.0.3 comes out.
Interesting. So you've looked up the new spells and rotations that come with this patch? You know exactly the ways each class can be played in both PvE and PvP? I suppose all the time you spent on the PTR figuring out how to use the new spells on the classes you leveled to 80 in the most efficient way, right? You know what to do for each of the encounters in the game and how to switch up your rotation and glyphs on the fly to match each situation presented to you?etiolate said:
Impressive, sir.
Mister Zimbu
Member
As a paid off member of the public by Blizzard (as well as a brother of the underground freemason order to promote World of Warcraft over foreign-made Final Fantasy RPGs), I can safely say that this patch is literally the greatest achievement ever attained by humankind.
And thanks Christ for that.funkmastergeneral said:
Wrath will go down as the version that almost destroyed the pure DPS class. For a long while the Hybrids (Which included the likes of Shadow priests etc) could do everything a pure DPS'er could and with a turn of a switch to dual spec, could then do yet another role.
As a Mage first and foremost it led to me quitting the game for a long time, and I am still not playing as much as I used to. As long as Version 4/Cataclysm makes my class a top tier DPS class again, I'll be happy.
notworksafe
Member
The Hybrid tax is back in effect though. Mages, Locks, Rogues, and Hunters are quite good compared to hybrid classes in their PvE DPS in the new patch. Casters especially will be pleased, as these changes are a bit unbalanced towards them.
Mister Zimbu
Member
Stop It said:
I don't really care about topping charts even as a pure DPS. I'm just overjoyed that as a Warlock I am no longer the only class who has to tote around their own bag devoted to only carrying one reagent that has to be farmed out repeatedly.
Hopefully the old shard bags have been replaced by 60 slot bags to make up for all the injustice that us gnomes have had to put up with over the past six years.
funkmastergeneral
Banned
Stop It said:
Hybrid classes are a different beast and still have the stupid 5% hybrid tax applied. What I mean was things like prot/ret builds in pvp, with people getting talents deep down in both trees and being overpowered.
notworksafe
Member
You do get new shiny bags...probably not 60 slots though. :lol More like 22-26.Mister Zimbu said:
This just changed into a WoW forums thread. =X
Pure DPSer? Everything is purely dpsing if its dpsing. That is what they made the game into. That is part of the problem. And hybrid class is not hybrid build. Hybrid build is a mixing of talents from different trees creating its own playstyle.
The game is still the same core game mechanics, which is why the game will probably go about a month before it starts to become oddly familiar and redundant and stale. The Druid change is a bigger difference than the glyph change.
Pure DPSer? Everything is purely dpsing if its dpsing. That is what they made the game into. That is part of the problem. And hybrid class is not hybrid build. Hybrid build is a mixing of talents from different trees creating its own playstyle.
The game is still the same core game mechanics, which is why the game will probably go about a month before it starts to become oddly familiar and redundant and stale. The Druid change is a bigger difference than the glyph change.
NameGenerated
Who paid you to grab Dr. Pavel?
Fuck man, thanks for the detailed OP. I'm so close to resubscribing.
Mister Zimbu
Member
Gravijah said:
You're just jealous that the tier gear always looks better on us gnomes.
Though I'm not sure that even the sexy gnomish stature will even be enough to make up for the utter atrocity that is the T11 gear.
Einbroch said:
I thought they did something that removed your requirement for quivers in 3.3 or so.
notworksafe
Member
Ha! After Paladins and DKs got nerfed, casters ruled the roost for a long, long time. Arcane Mages and Aff Locks were a dominant force without compare. It's only since 3.3 and the release of high stats gear that melee has come back into the spotlight (which is how it worked at the end of Vanilla and BC, because melee is so stat dependant). The reason casters are returning to the forefront is because the stat changes lead to slight stat decreases all around for now...until level 85 gear.Einbroch said:
It's changing back now, actually. Pure DPS classes are king, while hybrids bring support to the table. Though each Hunter pet brings its own raid buff/debuff which is nice.etiolate said:
http://wowtal.com/Xater said:
Hybrids is one major issue that I don't think WoW will ever be able to fix
This is unfortunate, because the pure DPS classes really kind of take it up the ass in terms of flexibility and role
I'm pretty sure a guild consisting of nothing but Druids and Paladins could do most content :|
But I suppose none of that really affects you on a personal level unless you care about it. If you enjoy DPSing as a Rogue/Hunter/Mage/Warlock, you have 2-3 viable, flavorful ways to do so. If you don't, and you want to heal or tank, play another class.
And the alternative (gimped hybrids) isn't a great solution either, as it damages everyone in the group for no good reason.
It does make me very curious to see what Diablo 3 andStarcraft MMO their unknown MMO do with classes and class balance. They have more 'education' and practical experience in this area than any other dev.
This is unfortunate, because the pure DPS classes really kind of take it up the ass in terms of flexibility and role
I'm pretty sure a guild consisting of nothing but Druids and Paladins could do most content :|
But I suppose none of that really affects you on a personal level unless you care about it. If you enjoy DPSing as a Rogue/Hunter/Mage/Warlock, you have 2-3 viable, flavorful ways to do so. If you don't, and you want to heal or tank, play another class.
And the alternative (gimped hybrids) isn't a great solution either, as it damages everyone in the group for no good reason.
It does make me very curious to see what Diablo 3 and
Yes, it would help to read what I am quoting wouldn't it!Evlar said:
Still, from what I have read they are sorting out both types of issues with hybrids, both spec and class wise. As a DPS class all the "hybrid" specs done was changed the sort of DPS to be more useful in certain settings and even then the effects have been nerfed over time.
Still, the sentiment remains, Wrath became a nightmare (or haven) for people who had to or could play their classes or specs wildly different from how it was intended, although Blizzard didn't help in that regard. If we ever see the sort of debacle that Death Knights were at 3.0.2, and has only been fully solved in 4.01, i.e the Tanking spec being "all of them" I'll be hitting Blizzard devs with large haddocks.
funkmastergeneral
Banned
notworksafe said:
Oh yea, it's definitely the hybrids bringing support to the table. Like shaman losing bloodlust to mages.
notworksafe
Member
Yep 3.3 killed off quivers and let you stack ammo up to 1000 in your bag.Mister Zimbu said:
Okay...hybrids bringing more support. Each class has it's own group buff now, but hybrids bring a ton more than pures.funkmastergeneral said:
Not to mention that BM hunters have Heroism too. Corehound baby!
funkmastergeneral
Banned
etiolate said:
I guess how every buff in the game is provided by a multitude of classes now? I'm not sure what he's trying to say. they've farmed out every buff so badly that hybrid classes really aren't that important to bring along.
Yes I play a shaman and yes I'm bitter.
notworksafe
Member
Raid/group buffs. Blessings have been consolidated so you don't need 5 Paladins to get them all. Plus things like passive mana regen, armor reductions, AP/Int buffs. Nice little bonuses are brought by every class, but hybrids by their very nature have the ability to bring more of them at once.etiolate said:
bill0527 said:
Agreed and then some.
The complaint is stupid anyway, there were a tiny handful of truly viable builds for any given class, and any major deviation outside those builds in the interest of being a beautiful and unique snowflake rarely paid off
More importantly, not having to mathcraft the fuck out of your build and (hopefully) your gear with better in-game information will be a welcome change.
I played a Warrior/DK and my friend played a Rogue, and when we were carefully analyzing spreadsheets to determine the relative value of a given talent with a given gear setup, I realized it was time to back the fuck away from the game for awhile.
As it should be.funkmastergeneral said:
As a mage in Wrath there was a lot of times where my role wasn't exactly needed a lot of the time, especially in 5 man content. Can you blame people for wanting Druids or Shamans over Mages, Hunters and Rogues when they could match the DPS produced by them and have the added security of being a emergency healer or res provider?
I think Blizzard, in their desire to make the "hybrid" classes like the Druid etc more useful, forgot that the pure dps classes couldn't do anything else than actual dps, making their scope limited to the point of redundancy. I hope that mistake isn't made ever again.