Support NeoGAF

[Turin]

This one fits in both threads, but I'll put it here because people thrive on negativity

I like Lulu as a character. I like her fur coat thing, I like her hair, I like her face, I like her hair pins, it all looks delightfully gothic - fitting for a black mage. She is one of my favorite FF women from a personality standpoint.



Look, what a cool design!

But...



...that belt skirt is damn ridiculous.

Nomura must've gone a long time without drawing belts before this. The agitation became too much to bare.

Honestly thought it was a Legolas (sp?) - lookin' fella at first, not a woman. Maybe not the 'worst' but it's one of the few examples I can think of this late at night.

 

[redcrayon]

it's funny how many of the people that advocate for "practicality" in designs also call for full suits of armor..ignoring how impractical a full suit of armor can be in combat

Just as well 'suits of armour' comes in various forms and weights designed to allow mobility around the joints and for different purposes. Plenty of light combat units throughout history trade off raw defence for mobility, specialising armour on specific vulnerable points for their job role, cost of outfitting everyone or just comfort when travelling. Plate-armoured foot knights might be tanks but it's not a good idea for walking through a swamp in, and practicality doesn't mean platemail for missile cavalry when a breastplate and leathers will do. Such reasoning just tends not to pair plate chestpieces with thongs and boob windows because pleasing the people looking at them matters less than all-round effectiveness and survival. Armour is effective when designed for the role, and sometimes that can means light or little armour, carefully chosen. Light armour is better than lingerie for close combat, funny that. That doesn't mean that 'because it looks cool' is a poor reason for a character's outfit, but if that character is then trying to justify that they wear combat lingerie because it's highly effective while every other soldier is rocking armour for the exact same reason, it starts to look a bit odd. I don't know, I think some people like costume to fit the character's role in the world, whereas some are happy for them to look cool/sexy in isolation. That's ok.

Some of them are afraid of women expressing sexuality or just wearing skimpy clothes.

Yes, that's clearly what's going on here. None of the outfits criticised are utterly ridiculous for the character, job role or just in general, despite being skimpy or sexy. It's possible to be all three. Plenty of great games characters have skimpy outfits that suit them down to the ground.

 

[zoukka]

wat. What where they thinking lmao

Most likely to make a game that sells some extra copies off of T&A physics.

 

[Jimnymebob]

Lol @ people complainig about Lara Croft looking like a real woman.


And ofcourse half of those people have anime avatars.

My complaint isn't that she looks like a real woman, it's the fact her design isn't interesting, especially for a game that has an adventure and supernatural theme.

Take Rubi from Wet as a comparison. She's not sexualised, but her design is interesting visually, as in she doesn't just look like an NPC.

Edit: wow that's the smallest image ever. Thanks mobile!

 

[Aureon]

Most Lost Odyssey characters. Character design on that game was a flaming hot mess, and i say that compared to FFX. At least FFX had very high highs (Yuna, Auron) to compensate for the ridicolous messes (Seymour, Wakka, Tidus, Lulu)

 

[llien]

Ummm...You presume wrong on the last bit, hence why I posted sexy designs I like.

I'm not sure what you are talking about. The only point I made was that "unrealisticness" is not an argument. You switched the subject talking about why you hate certain things.

I ask you be less self-centred and realize you're not the only one playing these games.

I ask you to do exactly the same, literally: there are some people, who find it appropriate, please don't dismiss them.

I'm a straight girl, and I don't get ANYTHING from developers parading sexy women around me in bikini pants and when you're not really "feeling it'" it just makes it more obvious how out of place it is.

I have re-read this quote several times and still didn't quite grasp what makes "more obvious" that something is out of place. You talk about it as if it was something objective, not somebodies opinion.

I'm married to a straight women and the most of the time we play games together (if she is at all into gender, SC2 is a no-no),
World of Warcraft in particular (spent several years). Neither of us has problems with revealing outfits, neither in games, nor in real life, for that matter.

But then, neither of us is sex negative.

People keep forgetting that the main reason straight men are not wearing more revealing cloths (homosexual men do), is because women do not find it appropriate.

But even besides me there's guys here who don't like some of the over the top designs.

There is nothing wrong about having different opinions.

 

[Stallion Dan]

Been playing games for 34 years and I've yet to play a realistic one.

 

[Ban Puncher]

Sorry OP but I don't body shame.

 

[Lunafreya Nox Fleuret]

KOS-MOS from Xenosaga 1 and 3 is awful. Felt embarrassed playing those games because of her design. Who would design a war machine to look like that (complete with high heels)?

Her episode one design is great......

 

[nOoblet16]

yeah,she looks fine.
when i think about old lara all i though was

- ponytail
- big breasts
- tanktop
- mini shorts

they kept 2/4 in it so it's still recognizable as lara croft

It's 3/4 actually, reboot Lara doesnt exactly have small breasts. It's a bit more realistic now but that's about it. They have reduced her bust size over each game gradually, compare how she looks in Underworld to previous games and you'll see that the reboot wasn't the first time they tried to reduce the size.

As for shorts, it makes just as much sense as full length cargo pants, if she is in a tropical climate. Lara wore a Jeans and Jacket for like half of the game in Angel of Darkness, she wore winter jackets and trousers for more than half of the game in Underworld as well and majority of her clothing options were full trousers.


Basically my point being her looks were always changing to the "more realistic" side, reboot didn't do an abrupt change that they never tried to do before. Contrary to the general opinion, reboot wasn't the first time Lara became something other than the tank top and shorts wearing woman with oversized balloons for breasts from the first game.

 

[Lime]

Been playing games for 34 years and I've yet to play a realistic one.

Which is a fact that's incredibly sad to think about: The fantasy and limitless possibilities of video games as a virtual medium consists of over-sexualized women and the complete invisibility of people of color, and the dominance of white straight men.

It is incredibly sad and depressing to think that the fantasy of developers, publishers, and core consumers is women as sexual objects and the oppression of people of color.

 

[Klappdrachen]

Bayonetta is one of the best IMO, sad to see her in this thread.

 

[matrix-cat]

From the PS3/360 game Damnation. I never even played it, but this image has stayed in my mind ever since I saw it.

 

[Jimnymebob]

Bayonetta is one of the best IMO, sad to see her in this thread.

Yeah, I don't think Bayonetta deserves to be lumped into the overly sexualised design pile, if only for the fact that it's intentional with her, and played in a really camp way/is basically a hyper sexualised parody of female character design. It's very tongue in cheek with her.

 

[DemWalls]

Been playing games for 34 years and I've yet to play a realistic one.

Well, there are quite a few "realistic" women in gaming, although they are among many, many other "non-realistic" ones.

Just to be sure, when you say realistic, what do you mean, exactly?

 

[TatteredHat]

I think the biggest sin a character designer can commit is ending up with a character that just looks boring. I don't really mind sexualization, just don't make it TOO ridiculously looking or impractical.

I'd post some examples, but the characters were too boring looking for me to remember. I guess I'll echo that I don't really like Lara Croft's design either.

 

[Kid Ying]

Zarya from overwatch. Her muscular body is horrendous.

I like zarya a lot. She's my favorite design in overwatch together with zenyatta.

One more vote for Makoto. Bland as hell and with nothing to distinguish herself from a shotoclone design wise.

 

[fhqwhgads]

Just a remind about how some of you are sounding.

 

[Gangster Bastard]

I don't know if that's true..the only adjustement it's the torn up pantyhose,and for many people that's what makes things worst, since it sexualizes the entire design even more than just with a bikini

Is this really a problem for a design that's already so blatantly intended to titillate? I would say that it works it's favor.
My point is that while Quiet is offensive in the game's context, taken as just a pinup, she's actually rather well designed.

 

[LotusHD]

Lol @ people complainig about Lara Croft looking like a real woman.


And ofcourse half of those people have anime avatars.

Her new design is more than fine, but I don't understand the bolded? Like, what is even the correlation here lol

I think the biggest sin a character designer can commit is ending up with a character that just looks boring. I don't really mind sexualization, just don't make it TOO ridiculously looking or impractical.

I'd post some examples, but the characters were too boring looking for me to remember. I guess I'll echo that I don't really like Lara Croft's design either.

I rather come up with a boring design than some of these outright embarrassing examples posted in this thread.

 

[GodIsOnTheRadio]

 

[PaulExcellent]

'but muh backstory'

Ooooooooooh I'm mad.
Like, I get why anyone would say this, but boy oh boy seeing this here fucked me up.

I gotta go with Aloy (haven't played the game yet) or Maria from Castlevania Judgement. That was just the worst.

 

[TatteredHat]

I rather come up with a boring design than some of these outright embarrassing examples posted in this thread.

Well sure but that line of thinking is like aiming to finish a race second-to-last.

 

[Kolibri]

Suited Samus:

Zarya from overwatch. Her muscular body is horrendous.

Holy shit lol. Now this one I can agree with. For almost the same reason as I picked Samus. Super deformed and silly looking.

 

[LotusHD]

Well sure but that line of thinking is like aiming to finish a race second-to-last.

More like I just don't see "boring" designs as being the biggest sin, not that I would actually purposefully try to make something boring.

 

[Quonny]

Zarya is only shit because her skins are shit. Blizzard why.

 

[PaulExcellent]

Zarya is only shit because her skins are shit. Blizzard why.

So what you're trying to tell Blizzard here is that... you want more Genji skins?
Because that's what they're getting from this.

 

[Springfoot]

Suited Samus

One of my favorite illustrations of Samus (from the Super Metroid guidebook):

It still doesn't make total sense since there would be a ton of places where parts would be butting up against each other and restricting movement (no idea how she's supposed to ever aim up), but if you're going to take it that far into the "but it needs to be practical!" territory then you shouldn't be playing a game where the character contorts/transforms into a bomb-laying ball.

Plus every power-suited character suffers from those issues. Warhammer and Starcraft space marines being some of the worst in terms of impossibly contorted bodies, but even Master Chief would have some issues with the way his pauldrons and codpiece are set up in the original designs. Not to mention that most armored characters have helmets that are way too small to fit an actual head inside, let alone accommodate all the fancy sci-fi camera tech and comms equipment.

EDIT: Found some cool cosplay, so people have clearly found ways to stay faithful to the overall design while making the suit wearable by real humans with only some minor tweaks.

 

[Quonny]

So what you're trying to tell Blizzard here is that... you want more Genji skins?
Because that's what they're getting from this.

They already have a good Zarya skin in HotS. Just take that. Ezpz.

 

[rashbeep]

As evidenced by this thread, there's a whole shitload of em

 

[WaffleTaco]

Ooooooooooh I'm mad.
Like, I get why anyone would say this, but boy oh boy seeing this here fucked me up.

I gotta go with Aloy (haven't played the game yet) or Maria from Castlevania Judgement. That was just the worst.

Why

Holy shit lol. Now this one I can agree with. For almost the same reason as I picked Samus. Super deformed and silly looking.

She's a muscular woman...what's wrong with that exactly?

 

[PaulExcellent]

They already have a good Zarya skin in HotS. Just take that. Ezpz.

Oh, got u! More Genji AND Tracer. Yeah, don't sweat it. They'll get right on that.

Spoiler

Just started practicing with Zarya and life is pain.

Why

Face/hair and design of what I assume is the first armor. It's so busy and feels thrown together. (The armor from the new expansion trailer makes her way better).

 

[Kin5290]

I honestly can't believe people have an affinity for original Laura.

Reboot Laura fucking rocks

I have an issue with how she's written, but reboot Lara is some pretty awesome character design. She's more realistic and grounded, while still remaining sexy, and she looks ready for battle.

Do people really think that a tank top and capris is boring and generic while adding short shorts suddenly fixes it? That's just dumb.

 

[EvilKatarn]

framing matters. By my knowledge there's no equivalent to this:

in Dragon's Crown. Muscles move. Not just tits.

His muscles do move though.

 

[Ferr986]

Ooooooooooh I'm mad.
Like, I get why anyone would say this, but boy oh boy seeing this here fucked me up.

I gotta go with Aloy (haven't played the game yet) or Maria from Castlevania Judgement. That was just the worst.

I loved Nier an Kaine is a good character, but no matter what her backstory is, the design is awful.

Same as Automata, game is awesome but that the Yorha are basically a group of robowaifus with shitty designs can be offputting.

But as I said, that doesn't mean they're bad games, we should be able to separate the designs from the rest of the game.

 

[Yopis]

Aloy was pretty bad. Enjoyed the game though. Hope they really improve the weak areas before a sequel.

 

[Antiwhippy]

His muscles do move though.

The dwarf is a real false equivalence because being super muscled and exposed isn't really the same. Female gaze and male gaze is largely different. Not to say there won't be females attracted to that design but I'm going to guess that it's a very very small minority.

I can 99.9999% guarantee that he wasn't designed for sex appeal.

 

[PaulExcellent]

I loved Nier an Kaine is a good character, but no matter what her backstory is, the design is awful.

Same as Automata, game is awesome but that the Yorha are basically a group of robowaifus with shitty designs can be offputting.

But as I said, that doesn't mean they're bad games, we should be able to separate the designs from the rest of the game.

You're so right. (Although the YorHa armor design is 10/10)

 

[Valahart]

Rachel from Ninja Gaiden Sigma.

Just finished the game and the way she's blatantly just used as eye candy for the straight male player is just disgusting.

 

[WaffleTaco]

Aloy was pretty bad. Enjoyed the game though. Hope they really improve the weak areas before a sequel.

Why was she bad exactly?

 

[Sulik2]

There are so many bad ones, but Quiet takes the cake for me. The explanation is beyond stupid, the way she is used in the game in the ridiculous outfit and the fact that MGS games are meant to be military sci-fi games and that outfit just gets even more egregious.

 

[LotusHD]

Aloy was pretty bad. Enjoyed the game though. Hope they really improve the weak areas before a sequel.

Lol I don't really like Aloy's design much myself, but she is the furthest thing from belonging in this thread. Not really seeing how she's "pretty bad".

 

[DemoCracy]

Emily Hartwood in Alone in the dark

 

[Springfoot]

So what you're trying to tell Blizzard here is that... you want more Genji skins?
Because that's what they're getting from this.

 

[Antiwhippy]

I don't know why people keep asking for HotS zarya skins. They look so bad.

 

[Serenade_King]

Brunhilde though is just...yikes, then again I'm not fond with most of the character designs in Valkyria Revolution.

Not that I thought that Raita would design a character like her (she's basically Selvaria) but Raita didn't do the art for Valkyria Revolution. It's like how Ni No Kuni 2 is not made by Studio Ghibli but the characters are still using the same style.

Rachel from Ninja Gaiden Sigma.

Just finished the game and the way she's blatantly just used as eye candy for the straight male player is just disgusting.

I use to hate how Rachel looked, especially her shoulder pad, but since I played a lot with her since I prefer her playstyle over Ryu in NGS1 I went from being ok with it to liking it since I associate it with her. I know Rachels playstyle gets a lot of hate since she's slower than Ryu but I really like it and would've love her being part of NG3:RE ...

 

[Astral Dog]

Agreed with bolded and Rouge the Bat...design always bothered me

Actualy liked Rouge the Bat, though she was cool when i was a kid 😳

Plus the way she annoyed Knucles was funny and her interactions with Shadow as they become friends not bad, its just..she didn't had much to do after SA2 (besides the anime and maybe the fighting game) like other characters so in time she just became 'bat with titties' and that was it.

 

[Springfoot]

I don't know why people keep asking for HotS zarya skins. They look so bad.

Different strokes, but it's a helluva lot better than a million palette swaps of her default costume and this shit:

The new Cyberian looks pretty cool, although apparently the rest of the internet isn't that thrilled ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[Applebite]

The dwarf is a real false equivalence because being super muscled and exposed isn't really the same. Female gaze and male gaze is largely different. Not to say there won't be females attracted to that design but I'm going to guess that it's a very very small minority.

I can 99.9999% guarantee that he wasn't designed for sex appeal.

I do agree to a point that the designs in this game are about exaggerating archetypes, and I actually think the only one that bothers me is the Amazon as I would prefer she had Amazon style armor, but even then you can point to the artist doing the same thing with the dwarf. The Witch is definitely sexualized, and intentionally so, but I don't know that that is inherently bad. She is done so in an exaggerated manner, but that is kind of the the theme for all the character designs. Except maybe the elf, although I feel she looks deliberately tiny compared to the other characters.

Really, the only design I don't like is the Amazon, because she's supposed to be an Amazon, not a berserker type of character.

Also not a fan of the female and male gaze argument. Who are we to say what is attractive to who?

 

[Starfield]

Every Anime in existence