-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Would a 2.5D Sonic using the Unleashed engine make you guys happy?
- Thread starter goodcow
- Start date
BlazeHedgehog
Member
OnPoint said:
Only because most attempts to bring Sonic in to 3D haven't been executed very well. A lot of the Sonic Adventures, and Sonic Heroes and stuff were sort of this weird halfway inbetween where you could tell they were trying to follow in the footsteps of the Genesis games but there were a lot of concessions that had to be made to bring Sonic in to the third dimension.
In numerous ways, Sonic Unleashed goes "Fuck that" and basically does its own thing. It is the first Sonic game in a long time that actually tries to form its own identity rather than trying to incorrectly piggyback the same identity the franchise had 15 years ago.
ChackanKun
Member
Make Sonic Adventure HD and launch it in the PSN for a low price. That game just made it right.
I'd rather play the Werehog over Big the Cat any day, myself.ChackanKun said:
Another week, another Sonic thread (actually, I think the last thread wasn't even a week ago). I'm still convinced that if Unleashed was called Sonic Adventure 3 and replaced the Werehog with Knuckles, people might not be so hard on it.
No wait, they would still be so hard on it, because it's not identical to the 16-bit games in every way. I think the only way some people would be satisfied is if Sega released a Rom hack of one of the old games and called it Sonic 4. So afraid of change aren't we?
But yes, I would like to see more 2.5D gameplay like what was in Unleashed, but with less bottomless pits and QTES, and more rolling about. Unleashed is defiantly a good start, so I hope a sequel that improves things comes along at some point. The Werehog's gameplay wasn't too bad either, just that the stages took too long to slog through.
Coolio McAwesome
Member
2.5D would be about 0.5 too much D, in my estimation. Sonic needs a Mega Man 9 makeover. If Sega made Sonic 4 look and play exactlly like the Genesis games, then I would gladly give them some money.
I'd love to see how the old style levels like Green Hill Zone would look in Unleashed 3D, myself. As far as 3D goes the game nailed it except for the earthly surroundings (though even then the ice stage may as well be Ice Cap Zone). If you just want a carbon copy of the 16-bit games right down to the sprites, there are plenty of Rom hacks that do exactly that for you or fan games like this one.Coolio McAwesome said:
Though if it was HD 2D, that could be pretty sweet if done right, too.
HUELEN10
Member
First of all, hedgehog engine is just a lighting engine, has NOTHING to do with how the game plays, just the look of it. Second of all, I am no troll, and a 2.5d Unleashed-style game would be a travesty because s far as unleashed goes, I see that a taking a huge step back. If you want Sonic Rush with rings for tention gauge, thta is fine by me, but I want UNLEASHED! THis means I like Daytime just fine. I would be perfectly cool if they made it more momentum-y rather than speed, but I am not complaining. Especially with DLC, they nailed the platforming though.kenji said:
ChackanKun
Member
Gagaman said:
- Graphically, yes, but with more imaginative and diverse environments(not that I'm saying Unleashed's were boring I just want it to be better).
- Level design, no. Needs a lot of improvement.
- Physics engine, no.
- Gameplay, scrap the QTEs, lock on/magnetising and wall jump. 3D sections are cool if they make it more user controlled and well designed.
- Level design, no. Needs a lot of improvement.
- Physics engine, no.
- Gameplay, scrap the QTEs, lock on/magnetising and wall jump. 3D sections are cool if they make it more user controlled and well designed.
my blame was for those who say "No, let sonic die" or "No, Sonic is DEAD, let him rest in peace"HUELEN10 said:
i loved unleashed too and i'd really want a new unleashed game (yes, even with the werehog), but i'd love a new sonic game in 2.5D like the gameplay in the video on the first post
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
YES! A LOT!
I'm not actually sure why I loved the Mega Drive games as much as I did. I'm pretty sure it's not the on rails speed that games like Unleashed encapsulate, although I actually didn't mind the Unleashed demo on my second playthrough.
I'm not really convinced that Sonic is at his best in a full retail game though. I'd probably be more happy with cheaper PSN/XBLA sonic stuff, like HD remakes etc.
Mario has moved on to bigger things, but I don't think that really works for Sonic.
I think they'd have to do something pretty special to get my to fork out for a full disc based sonic game though, which is sad, coz sonic was a huge part of my childhood.
I'm not really convinced that Sonic is at his best in a full retail game though. I'd probably be more happy with cheaper PSN/XBLA sonic stuff, like HD remakes etc.
Mario has moved on to bigger things, but I don't think that really works for Sonic.
I think they'd have to do something pretty special to get my to fork out for a full disc based sonic game though, which is sad, coz sonic was a huge part of my childhood.
manueldelalas
Time Traveler
First post got it right.Shins said:
We don't want Sonic combined with guitar hero, were you have to press all the buttons shown on the screen plus "->" to watch a cool movie.
AwakenedCloud
Member
Almost, with the currect level design it'd more or less be Sonic Rush without the trick system. I tend to prefer the classic 'tank' Sonic where you start out slow and earn top speed, no boosting.
I'd like a sequel to Unleashed only if it were retooled to be a little less wild. Improve on the level design so players can actually take separate paths to complete a stage (paths that re-connect with the main stage path after 10 seconds do not count), bring back Sonic's roll maneuver and momentum-based physics, and separate the fast as Hell 3D sequences into their own Acts (ideally, that would be the only time boost was available to the player).
Do that and I'll be inclined to love it.
Do that and I'll be inclined to love it.
Blueblur1 said:
and take out the backtracking to go searching for rings in stages as a requirement to progress! the game got tough but it subconsciously made me quit.
either that, or put out a effing guide within 2 months of release, bastards. i kinda dont like sonic team.
yes, "a guide lol". generally they arent hard to come across, your opinion is valid.AwakenedCloud said:
but when i bought it, "the internet" didnt have any discussion or guides either.. months after release. although it did have a bunch of people talking about BS, QTE's, werehogs, sth, and the speed debate.
im assuming you meant they arent generally hard to find, but it just got a little slow and tedious running back and forth thru towns and debating between a new werehog stage or doing the heart-attack city-scape day stage again. the game let me get bored, howd your experience fare?
guides r 4 LOSEARS LOL IM ELITE BITCHES@! /smh
AwakenedCloud
Member
M.J. Doja said:
A guide? LOL. This IS the internet. The sun/moon medals weren't even really that hard to find...
Gagaman said:
they should damn it, really. how dare they sell me the game for 20 bucks through amazon and leave me with no way to blaze through the game in a timely fashion.. fuck them for not bringing me a monster energy drink when i got to school this morning. sonic team </3
actually i dislike them because of who they are as a development team, that wasnt really tied to the guide comment
Azure Dream
Member
Some game devs do put official guides online, or at least the marketing side gets someone to do it, so it's not a completely ridiculous idea. Didn't Sonic Team have a big website for SA2 tips they updated after the game's release for a while?
But the requirements for them got to be ridiculously high. I was already scouring levels for secrets, but I still had to consistently go back and farm them for the last few levels.
AwakenedCloud said:
But the requirements for them got to be ridiculously high. I was already scouring levels for secrets, but I still had to consistently go back and farm them for the last few levels.
yep, youre exactly right. only one guide and for the wiis2 version. nobody online had made a guide/walkthrough either, i mean the game wasnt brand new but the lack of documentation and worthwhile discussion was more than i'd come to expect.Gagaman said:
generally speaking, many people buy guide books just to have extra art, many use them, many just use gamefaqs, and many do it old school without hints. ive been in each of these categories before. i'd still expect them to have made one for a game which could have totally used it.
Icomeinpeace
Banned
The 3D should be reserved for the bonus levels, Sonic should never leave the 2D plane, not even in loops.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
Goodcow, you really need to word your topic headers in a way that doesn't invite smarmy, sarcastic trolls. Rule #1: Never use a Yes/No question as your topic header.
To the topic at hand: I would only be interested a new Sonic game if it was completely sprite-based, 2D, and played and looked similarly to the Genesis Sonics. The 'Advance' games weren't good enough. They didn't have the same graphical depth, and they used the cruddy 'Sonic Adventure' art style in the spritework. Although, I did like some of the ideas that those games had, such as bosses that are constantly moving.
Put it on the Wiiware or something. I've had enough of 3D Sonic. I've seen how it is when it works, and I've seen how it is when it doesn't work. And I'm not interested in it either way. Sonic, to me, is pure nostalgia. I'm not interested in the progression of the series. I liked it just the way it was, in the mid 90's.
And if you tell me 'This ain't 1995 anymore' or something inane like that, you can go fuck yourself.
To the topic at hand: I would only be interested a new Sonic game if it was completely sprite-based, 2D, and played and looked similarly to the Genesis Sonics. The 'Advance' games weren't good enough. They didn't have the same graphical depth, and they used the cruddy 'Sonic Adventure' art style in the spritework. Although, I did like some of the ideas that those games had, such as bosses that are constantly moving.
Put it on the Wiiware or something. I've had enough of 3D Sonic. I've seen how it is when it works, and I've seen how it is when it doesn't work. And I'm not interested in it either way. Sonic, to me, is pure nostalgia. I'm not interested in the progression of the series. I liked it just the way it was, in the mid 90's.
And if you tell me 'This ain't 1995 anymore' or something inane like that, you can go fuck yourself.
AwakenedCloud
Member
Kulock said:
The highest amount you had to get to beat the game was 120 (60%) of each. As long as you went to the day/night act 2 and act 3s, you should rarely end up more than 5 or so medals short of any given requirement.
i cant get with either of the camps so maybe i should check out.
the "bring back my childhood with lo-res graphics and remakes" camp
and
the sonic team camp who thought that they could match nintendo's skill in transitioning 2d franchises to a 3d world. sonic team are a bunch of crack addicts.
the "bring back my childhood with lo-res graphics and remakes" camp
and
the sonic team camp who thought that they could match nintendo's skill in transitioning 2d franchises to a 3d world. sonic team are a bunch of crack addicts.
o okAwakenedCloud said:
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
the unfortunate reality of the situation was that there were at least three points in the game where I had to go back and find ~10 medals.AwakenedCloud said:
The medal system, used in its current state to unlock levels, is indefensible. It served as nothing more than a way of artificially lengthening the game in the worst way possible. The only positive thing about them was that they probably pushed some players who were speeding through the game to play the optional levels. However, for those of us who played them anyway, it was nothing but a pointless chore.
Stuff like this shouldn't be defended, I reckon.
Azure Dream
Member
AwakenedCloud said:
It doesn't matter if I should, I did. And I was no slouch for exploring, particularly the night levels.
I AM JOHN!
Banned
The problem with Sonic Unleashed, though, is that they threw the baby out with the bath water. The game forges its own identity, sure, but it does it at the expense of taking the gameplay the furthest away from classic Sonic that any mainseries 3D Sonic game has ever done. Even if I were to pretend that I have absolutely no problem with the game's physics, less exploration, more platforming over death chasms, even more of a reliance on platforming via homing attack, and more completely railed-in segments that let you do nothing but slightly move right and left. And outside of them deciding they've just given up and now think that it's impossible to do a 3D Sonic game without it revolving solely on him running really fastSega1991 said:
In other words - why hasn't someone looked at Lost World (which I still think is one of the best levels in any Sonic game, 2D or 3D), or Final Egg, or Metal Harbor, or Crazy Gadget and realized that they had a good thing going?
Yeah, the medal system was pretty annoying at times, like they saw what the 3D Mario games did with collecting stars and made it even more obnoxious. No worse than any of the shit they made you do in Sunshine, but still very pointless. This is one reason why a downloadable Sonic game would be better, as they wouldn't need to artificiality extend the game to feel like a 'worthy' retail release.
I AM JOHN!
Banned
In the game's defense, I never had a problem with being locked out of something due to a lack of medals (that I know of), but then again I'm really OCD about that kind of thing. I know I'm definitely in the minority, as most everyone else I've heard from who's played the game (including my friend who's borrowing my copy, and this is why he's going to stop playing the game) has been screwed over by the medal system. :\
domlolz said:
I liked em. I'm sure the game would've scored alot better without the werehog parts...even though those really didn't seem that bad. Not necessary? Probably so. But as heart wrenching, generation destroying, puppy kicking, eye gougingly bad as people made them out to be? Not by a long shot.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
I AM JOHN! said:
But is that really a bad thing? Yes, it's not what made classic Sonic so great, but is Mario Galaxy what made Super Mario Brothers 3 so great? Not at all. Outside of the notion that they are both "platformers" and star Mario, Galaxy and SMB3 are as different as can be. While there are some throwbacks in Galaxy to old Mario mechanics, that's all they are - throwbacks. It's the game saying "Hey, remember this? Good times."
The only reason people are still acting offended that 3D Sonic is abandoning the stuff from the Genesis games is because the 2D games were good and the 3D games were bad. Obviously its easy to go "This was good. Make it more like this."
But that's probably not the solution. While there certainly can be some design lessons learned from what made 2D Sonic so great and certain concepts do need to be carried over for it to retain a certain level of "Sonic-ness", chastising Sonic Unleashed for not being a verbatim carbon-copy of the Sega Genesis Sonic physics and game mechanics is, in my opinion, not the right way to go about doing this.
Sonic doesn't need to replicate Sega Genesis Sonic, he just needs to be in a good game - and as far as I am concerned, Sonic Unleashed is two steps in the right direction (and one step back).
I AM JOHN! said:
Because they did that with Sonic 2k6 and it was terrifyingly awful. 90% of that game was broken to the point of almost being totally unplayable. Horrific controls, awful graphics, ugly characters, slowdown, poor collision detection, and the goofiest most melodramatic plot ever (and one that is full of lazy, time-travel related plotholes and sketchy english translation, no less).
A lot of people around here keep saying that they should "make a Sonic Adventure 3". By its very definition, Sonic 2k6 is everything Sonic Adventure 3 would be should a game by that name actually exist and it was the worst game on any platform in 2006 and probably a contender for one of the most disappointing games ever made.
Sonic was long overdue for another refresh and Sonic Unleashed is it.
SecretBonusPoint
Banned
Sega1991 said:
Yeah, it is. Fantastic platforming in otherworldly and colourful environments. Indeed many remark that Galaxy feels like the 'SMB3' of the 3d runnings. 64 the great opener (SMB1), Sunshine the difficult gimmicky sequel (SMB2: Turnip Thrower) and Galaxy the true embellishment of everything great about the sequel. The difference between the 2 franchises is Mario made that translation to solid 3d platforming from the start while Sonic Team entered the 3rd dimension with Sonic flailing in all directions from the offset (6 characters in SA1, wildly different gameplay).
As such the series has suffered through each and every iteration from trying to be a jack of all trades, master of none. The werehog represents the thought in Sonic Team that Sonic needs some Action Brawler element to it, when that was never the case in the past.
Sonic was always a platformer first, with speed second and really just a marketing gimmick and character trait. What makes the current games, the competent Rush included, lose all that depth is nonsense like the "Press X to be invincible and go really fast" mechanic. Thats not fun nor is it proper design, its a basic mask to hide their inability to design balanced levels and enemy encounters.
Sonic is no longer a competent "top tier" franchise. Its at best some dumb fun, but its long since dropped from the hardcores radar and only exists as a going concern for people with Sonic avatars and a "the good old days" fascination.
gutter_trash
Banned
wrongGuybrush Threepwood said:
Sonic Advance series is an abomination of just speed, spikes and pits, nothing like the Genesis games
APZonerunner
Member
The thing about Unleashed is the 2.5D levels are amazing fun when played quickly when you've memorized large sections of the stage and can speed through it easily but just boring, rubbish, trial and error, stop-start rubbish when played slowly.
The old Sonic games were fun at any speed.
The old Sonic games were fun at any speed.
I AM JOHN!
Banned
Blaze, I'll get back to you in a bit; need a second to digest that wall of text. 
This said, I think that Advance 2 is the closest we've come to a Dimps Sonic game that feels like the Genesis games. Game's too fast, sure, but there's a good deal of exploration and the game does a good job of rewarding you for doing so, the level design was very creative in places (the music world <3) and I thought that it was just a lot of fun. It was at least a great jumping off point for making an amazing GBA Sonic game. The problem is, they followed it up with SA3. :\gutter_trash said:
Sonic Battle is still the best handheld Sonic game.
AwakenedCloud
Member
I AM JOHN! said:Sonic Battle is still the best handheld Sonic game.
Oh man, that game would be perfect with wi-fi capabilities on the DS!
I AM JOHN!
Banned
jooey said:
Like I said, the game definitely had problems, but I still think there were some good ideas buried underneath the crappy level design.