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[LegendofJoe]

To begin I am American. I'm asking this question because I have been contemplating how and where I would emigrate out of the country, but only if socioeconomic conditions do no change for the better.

Comment on the U.S: Taken as a whole, socially the United States is a backwater in comparison to northern and central Europe. This social backwardness is becoming an increasing burden to the country's long-term economic prospects. More specifically it's harming certain fields of scientific research, political participation/organization/cooperation, public spending priorities, and generally the country's attitude towards new ideas.

If conditions in the US do not change I feel that those with the means to do so, meaning the educated and affluent, will begin to search for ways to leave the country.

Comment on Europe: Several countries in northern and central Europe are going to be dealing with the problem of a declining population due to low birth rates in the coming decades. This will make managing social-welfare programs increasingly problematic as the gap between workers and retirees rises.

Questions: Do you think courting immigration from the U.S. could be an effective strategy employed to alleviate the problem of a decreasing population; or do you think the focus will center on areas other than immigration? Additionally, how do you think your country would embrace Americans as opposed to immigrants from other areas, such as Eastern Europe and Northern Africa?

Additionally, to my fellow Americans, if you had to immigrate, where would you be most likely to look? At English speaking countries? At countries with the best prospects for your field of work? What factors would be most important to you?

 

[Esch]

No, they hate us and blame us for a multitude of problems already.

 

[The Technomancer]

If conditions in the US do not change I feel that those with the means to do so, meaning the educated and affluent, will begin to search for ways to leave the country.

You don't get upper class emigration en masse. They're the ones doing alright. When you get emigration, its the lower classes.

 

[SmokyDave]

Sure. You're culturally compatible with us, friendly and you seem like a really hard-working bunch. Come on over, but please respect our cultural norms and values when you arrive.

You don't get upper class emigration en masse. They're the ones doing alright. When you get emigration, its the lower classes.

Then how do 'brain drains' happen?

 

[-KRS-]

Everyone is welcome in Sweden.

Edit: well, I should say "in the nordic countries". except for denmark, though I'm sure they'd be fine with Americans.

 

[kottila]

Sure. You're culturally compatible with us, friendly and you seem like a really hard-working bunch. Come on over, but please respect our cultural norms and values when you arrive.

I'd hate my country to be filled up with over-pleasant people engaging you in conversations everywhere.

 

[smurfx]

i would like to move to france for the women. i'll start repopulating you guys alright.

 

[gcubed]

Sure. You're culturally compatible with us, friendly and you seem like a really hard-working bunch. Come on over, but please respect our cultural norms and values when you arrive.



Then how do 'brain drains' happen?

you'll get the guys with the big US stickers on their cars saying "we beat your redcoat asses!" driving around the UK

 

[The Technomancer]

Then how do 'brain drains' happen?

If things become extremely hostile to scientists specifically then I could see them leaving but most scientists, even successful ones, are hardly upper class.

 

[ReBurn]

If you want to emigrate to another country then go for it. Is the idea that this feeling is commonplace and normal?

 

[SmokyDave]

you'll get the guys with the big US stickers on their cars saying "we beat your redcoat asses!" driving around the UK

If you bring over your muscle cars from '65 to '70, you can do donuts & burnouts on my front garden all day long. Hell, I'll bring you a cup of tea every now & then.

If things become extremely hostile to scientists then I could see them leaving but most scientists, even successful ones, are hardly upper class.

Yeah, I was looking more at the 'educated' part than the 'affluent' bit. The affluent very rarely have a reason to bugger off en masse.

 

[truly101]

What happens to the people that want to leave country X only to find that magical country Y is just as fucked up as the place they left?

 

[Kurtofan]

Just don't take all your guns with you

 

[Hunter S.]

Massive immigration out of the USA is not going to happen so basically this is a question of fantasy.

 

[LegendofJoe]

If you want to emigrate to another country then go for it. Is the idea that this feeling is commonplace and normal?

I have no idea how prevalent this thought is, I do however feel as if I would be giving up on the United States if I decided to leave and I feel guilty for even contemplating it to be honest.

What happens to the people that want to leave country X only to find that magical country Y is just as fucked up as the place they left?

The saying that the grass is always greener on the other side doesn't hold true for all cases.

 

[i_am_ben]

come to Australia

 

[sonicfan]

come to Australia

This.

If I ever wanted to move out of th US, this is where I would try and go....

 

[The Last Wizard]

This.

If I ever wanted to move out of th US, this is where I would try and go....

like hell I would, have you seen the spiders there. I'll probably be stuck here, I do have my eye on France.

 

[Osiris]

If you bring over your muscle cars from '65 to '70, you can do donuts & burnouts on my front garden all day long. Hell, I'll bring you a cup of tea every now & then.

Of course with our fuel prices they won't be able to afford to drive a car like that to the corner shop, let alone anywhere significant

 

[WanderingWind]

I am seriously considering moving to England for a couple of years, but I've heard it's an extremely difficult process. Anybody with experience got any info on that?

Edit: Dave, I got a '66 muscle car. I take my tea black, thanks.

 

[smurfx]

come to Australia

hell no! i ain't going to get eaten by giant spiders and sharks. -_-

 

[Hunter S.]

come to Australia

From what I have heard Australia tries to be like the US as much as possible. Of course, that is coming from one Australian friend.

 

[desertdroog]

If you bring over your muscle cars from '65 to '70, you can do donuts & burnouts on my front garden all day long. Hell, I'll bring you a cup of tea every now & then.



Yeah, I was looking more at the 'educated' part than the 'affluent' bit. The affluent very rarely have a reason to bugger off en masse.

I'd like to be able to afford a European vacation where I can bring my 30 Model A Ford Hot Rod. Sweden, England and Germany have a burgeoning underground for vintage American Iron. Bottrop Germany has a yearly show and drag races on an airfield. I have friends that visit yearly, but no one can afford to bring their machine's with.

The Swedish and Norwegians are buying up all of our old speed equipment and importing vehicles often. It seems like every fourth eBay sale I have is being shipped to Scandinavia or Japan.

 

[andycapps]

Yeah, I don't see a mass exodus of Americans to Europe. Canada is much more likely.

 

[Acheron]

Then how do 'brain drains' happen?

Skilled labour is a complementary good of skilled labour. One software engineer can't really do anything special, a team of them can make a new Google. Same with bankers, accountants, scientists etc. If I am in a country where this a low amount of skilled labour and it is not concentrated well, then I am better off leaving.

Skilled labour pours out of the countries it needs most due to this issue.

 

[jorma]

I'd hate my country to be filled up with over-pleasant people engaging you in conversations everywhere.

Exactly! Why can't these immigrants figure out that public transportation means just that. We'd call them public talk to stranger vehicles if that was what they were for. Goddamnit.

 

[ReBurn]

I have no idea how prevalent this thought is, I do however feel as if I would be giving up on the United States if I decided to leave and I feel guilty for even contemplating it to be honest.

If you feel that a move out of the country would improve your life then there's no reason to not do it. That's a reason why people emigrate from where they live to a new place. I have friends who are happier since they immigrated to Germany, although it was difficult for them to do it.

 

[Plasmid]

Mass immigration to Europe? I can see people up north, the midwest, and the west coast as the only ones willing to move.

People in the south wouldn't leave their guns and their loud mouth attitudes to move to europe.

I personally would hope to be accepted, living in the U.S. is getting annoying, especially the south.

 

[Always-honest]

Sure. The dutch women would crawl all over you. They live line dancing and drama.

 

[-KRS-]

I'd like to be able to afford a European vacation where I can bring my 30 Model A Ford Hot Rod. Sweden, England and Germany have a burgeoning underground for vintage American Iron. Bottrop Germany has a yearly show and drag races on an airfield. I have friends that visit yearly, but no one can afford to bring their machine's with.

The Swedish and Norwegians are buying up all of our old speed equipment and importing vehicles often. It seems like every fourth eBay sale I have is being shipped to Scandinavia or Japan.

It's probably because of these guys. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raggare
Especially in the summers they'll gather in big packs and just show off their rides. It used to be a tradition in my city among them that every year they would gather on the national day and just ride in a long train of awesome hot rods through the city. I don't know if they still do that though.

 

[StealthGoblin]

like hell I would, have you seen the spiders there. I'll probably be stuck here, I do have my eye on France.

Speaking as a Brit who is generally positive about other places and what they have to offer - France really is low on my lists to potentially move to in the entire world.

 

[LQX]

Too far and they only have like one sport there. I think many would choose Canada over Europe. And don't Canadians fancy themselves as being European? So it would kind of the same thing.

 

[esquire]

OP where in America do you live and what do you do for a living?

 

[dinazimmerman]

Then how do 'brain drains' happen?

When educated people can earn more money in another country, or when smart people can receive a better education in another country, or when there is some sort of crisis like the Holocaust, the Inquisition, or a devastating war.

But speaking of brain drain, let's look at the Wikipedia article on it. Well, what do you know! A brain drain out of Europe to the US! Who would've guessed that? Isn't the US totally despised by Europeans for being so backwards and stuff? It couldn't be because of the incredible research universities and the high college premium in the US, could it?

Europe
Brain drain phenomena in Europe fall into two distinct trends. The first is an outflow of highly qualified scientists from Western Europe mostly to the United States. The second is a migration of skilled workers from Eastern and Southeastern Europe into Western Europe, often made easy by new EU membership, although there is evidence that the trend is slowing. The European Union has noted a net loss of highly skilled workers and introduced a "blue card" policy – much like the American green card – which "seeks to draw an additional 20 million workers from Asia, Africa and Latin America in the next two decades"...

Western Europe
In 2006, over 250,000 Europeans emigrated to the United States (164,285), Australia (40,455), Canada (37,946) and New Zealand (30,262). Germany alone saw 155,290 people leave the country (though mostly to destinations within Europe). This is the highest rate of worker emigration since reunification, which itself was equal to the rate in the aftermath of World War II. Portugal is suffering the largest drain in Western Europe. The country has lost 19.5% of its qualified population and is struggling to absorb sufficient skilled immigrants to cater for losses to Australia, Canada, Switzerland, Germany and Austria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_drain#Europe

 

[Mr. B Natural]

Skilled labour is a complementary good of skilled labour. One software engineer can't really do anything special, a team of them can make a new Google. Same with bankers, accountants, scientists etc. If I am in a country where this a low amount of skilled labour and it is not concentrated well, then I am better off leaving.

Skilled labour pours out of the countries it needs most due to this issue.

This already happens in places in the americas...Rochester, NY as an example. Lots of solid education, no work, no sense of community. So they go to college and then immediately leave.

 

[Something Wicked]

All of the hippies and wannabe socialists would leave the US?


I'll take a Coke...

 

[Zekes!]

How does Europe feel about Canadian immigration???

 

[i_am_ben]

From what I have heard Australia tries to be like the US as much as possible. Of course, that is coming from one Australian friend.

To an extent that is true but perhaps a little harsh. Most of the former white dominated British colonies have similar histories and mindsets.

 

[weekend_warrior]

WOOOOOOOOOOOO, HERE I COMES YORUP!

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Have you seen the youth unemployment figures in Europe. Why would you want to come?

 

[-KRS-]

How does Europe feel about Canadian immigration???

A Canadian is fine too!

 

[B.K.]

Come on over, but please respect our cultural norms and values when you arrive.

Why? No one does that when they come to America.

 

[Foffy]

What happens to the people that want to leave country X only to find that magical country Y is just as fucked up as the place they left?

Depends oh why you're leaving. I'm not sure many countries hold the same 'business' ethics when it comes to health care.

 

[Sky Chief]

To begin I am American. I'm asking this question because I have been contemplating how and where I would emigrate out of the country, but only if socioeconomic conditions do no change for the better.

Comment on the U.S: Taken as a whole, socially the United States is a backwater in comparison to northern and central Europe. This social backwardness is becoming an increasing burden to the country's long-term economic prospects. More specifically it's harming certain fields of scientific research, political participation/organization/cooperation, public spending priorities, and generally the country's attitude towards new ideas.

If conditions in the US do not change I feel that those with the means to do so, meaning the educated and affluent, will begin to search for ways to leave the country.

Comment on Europe: Several countries in northern and central Europe are going to be dealing with the problem of a declining population due to low birth rates in the coming decades. This will make managing social-welfare programs increasingly problematic as the gap between workers and retirees rises.

Questions: Do you think courting immigration from the U.S. could be an effective strategy employed to alleviate the problem of a decreasing population; or do you think the focus will center on areas other than immigration? Additionally, how do you think your country would embrace Americans as opposed to immigrants from other areas, such as Eastern Europe and Northern Africa?

Additionally, to my fellow Americans, if you had to immigrate, where would you be most likely to look? At English speaking countries? At countries with the best prospects for your field of work? What factors would be most important to you?

I completely disagree with your comment on the US. I have lived about a quarter of my life in Western Europe, a third of my life in the US, and the rest of my life in the third world. Sure, Europe may seem like an open minded wonderland but it isn't. American culture is much more dynamic and open to new ideas than any other on the planet by a long shot and there is certainly more important scientific research and development going on here than anywhere else.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

Why? No one does that when they come to America.

You've never been to a college football game and witnessed a great American tradition: a cluster of foreign students watching the game, with one person explaining what's going on. By the end of the season, they are die hard fans, its awesome.

 

[Zzoram]

If Europe wants to become more Evangelical Christian then sure, take the American lower class.

 

[MC Safety]

What happens to the people that want to leave country X only to find that magical country Y is just as fucked up as the place they left?

It's called doing a geographical. It's seldom if ever effective.

And I disagree with the original poster's ignorant commentary on the state of affairs in his own country. If the United States is a backwater, why do people flock to it? And how does he explain our country's fairly open-door policy for (legal) immigration?

 

[HarryHengst]

When educated people can earn more money in another country, or when smart people can receive a better education in another country, or when there is some sort of crisis like the Holocaust, the Inquisition, or a devastating war.

But speaking of brain drain, let's look at the Wikipedia article on it. Well, what do you know! A brain drain out of Europe to the US! Who would've guessed that? Isn't the US totally despised by Europeans for being so backwards and stuff? It couldn't be because of the incredible research universities and the high college premium in the US, could it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_drain#Europe

Yeah, nice numbers, except those are from before the crisis. Nowadays the US has loads of student leaving the country to escape crippling student debt and because of the lack of jobs.

 

[SomeDude]

I can't stand multi culturalism. and europeans have their own culturial heritage that should be preserved.

 

[Acheron]

Yeah, nice numbers, except those are from before the crisis. Nowadays the US has loads of student leaving the country to escape crippling student debt and because of the lack of jobs.

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