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[AstroNut325]

Out of curiosity, do you believe such a rule, if it existed, would have stopped today's massacre?

"Upp, law says I can't take these guns out of the house. Foiled again!"

?

Such laws are good for stopping law-abiding citizens who have no bad intentions. That's about it.

I believe I was being sarcastic! But to entertain your question, no I don't think that would have affected what occurred today. The shooter had an agenda/mission and was determined for a particular outcome. And you know the problem is? Before all of this... the shooter was likely a law abiding citizen with no bad intentions. We all are. But things can happen and we lose mental control in the blink of an eye. Then what? Do we just throw our hands up and say... problem is too big to fix and give up? If mental evals are too expensive and time consuming on top of background checks, and various other restrictions... then what do we do to reduce gun related violence?

 

[Arcteryx]

Everyone. It should be made public by the government online.

If you own a killing machine everyone that could be harmed by it has the right to know you own it.

So they can break into your home and steal it?

Makes perfect sense.

While we're at it, I'd like to see GPS/BAC nano-devices blended into all bottles of alcohol so that we can track all individuals who consume it.

 

[MormaPope]

As a teacher, fuck every single person saying that teachers should be armed.

Do you want to create a safe environment conducive to learning or are you really just looking to make a place where students go to be afraid all day?

At my highschool there would be police officers walking around the halls and patrolling the school and they their handguns equipped. The police cruiser outside the school had a shotgun in the backseat.

 

[kingkitty]

Teachers should be shipped to Israel for boot camp training.

 

[thezerofire]

Well, guns should only be used when one has a reasonable threat of grievous bodily harm to you or someone else. That said, "grievious" is a very strong word, commensurate to a "life or death" struggle. If someone feels their life is in danger, a man should be able to defend himself however he can. Non-lethality may not be a realistic option. Criminals can keep coming if pepper sprayed, and tasers typically mean hand-to-hand combat...which could very much be a losing proposition. Projectile tasers like the X26 are pretty much one-shot deals. Miss and you're sol.

If a ranged, non-lethal weapon that could be fired multiple times from distance could be made and sold to consumers for a reasonable price, I'd be all for it. I'm not sure that product exists at the moment. I think such weapons will be the future and whoever can make a commercially-viable weapon that meets this description will be a very wealthy man.

I think that's fair. What about a bat though? You can do a lot of damage with a decent blunt object.

My point however is that though there may be good reasons to own a gun, and even to use a gun, I don't think the 2nd Amendment is what should be used to justify them, and it doesn't really seem applicable to our society anymore in general.

 

[A.E Suggs]

You should be allowed to rifle hunt only if you own a license (gotten after psychological exams and background checks) and your weapons are all registered and tagged with GPS devices.

Lets not get to crazy here, tagging the guns with a GPS won't stop killing all that would do is let them know that you have a gun and where to find it. I'm not disagreeing with what you said as far as limiting guns but this I don't think is going to work.

 

[Samyy]

At my highschool there would be police officers walking around the halls and patrolling the school and they their handguns equipped. The police cruiser outside the school had a shotgun in the backseat.

yes because those are police officers, not teachers. I had those as well and we hardly ever noticed them. I would be pretty damn aware if I saw a teacher carrying something around.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

The suggestion that making a law is pointless if people violate it is ludicrous.

no, the point was let's make meaningful laws that work and can have a meaningful, positive impact on curbing violence (presumably the point). not stupid laws that won't have an effect on anyone but the people not looking to commit crimes.

such a law wouldn't stop a single criminal or person with criminal intent from going about their crime.

I think that's fair. What about a bat though? You can do a lot of damage with a decent blunt object.

My point however is that though there may be good reasons to own a gun, and even to use a gun, I don't think the 2nd Amendment is what should be used to justify them, and it doesn't really seem applicable to our society anymore in general.

understood.

yes because those are police officers, not teachers. I had those as well and we hardly ever noticed them. I would be pretty damn aware if I saw a teacher carrying something around.

agreed. Unless teachers are going to have some sort of extensive firearms training, let the professionals carry guns on school grounds. security guards and police.

Still brings up the problem that not every school district can afford to hire adequate security for every one of our 130,000+ schools.

 

[Seanspeed]

Fuck your ideal standpoint. I'm a law-biding, tax paying citizen and I'll be damned if you or like minded legislation tries to prevent me from owning a firearm. Whether it be used for hunting, home defense, or general target shooting.

Fuck your 'I have a hobby and I dont care if ten thousand people have to die' standpoint.

Its attitudes like yours that need to slowly be rotted away, honestly. That sort of thing is the 'gun culture' shit that doesn't exist in places with very low gun violence rates. I know its what you were probably raised with and it feels normal to you, and I'm sure that you treat your hobby very responsibly, but defending it to such extremes comes at a price.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

Well that sucks for non-gun owning homeowners... as would be home invaders can look up their neighborhood and see which homes have guns and which are unarmed.

Just goes to show how short sighted some of these ideas are.

 

[diehard]

Fuck your 'I have a hobby and I dont care if ten thousand people have to die' standpoint.

I'm for prohibition too bro.

 

[Jintor]

no, the point was let's make meaningful laws that work and can have a meaningful, positive impact on curbing violence (presumably the point). not stupid laws that won't have an effect on anyone but the people not looking to commit crimes.

such a law wouldn't stop a single criminal or person with criminal intent from going about their crime.

I wonder if America has gone past the point of no return on gun control both in terms of gun distribution and availability and in regards to just general cultural attitudes. Australia since the Port Arthur massacre has had no mass shootings for sixteen years or so, but we were never a 'packing heat' nation in the first place.

 

[MormaPope]

yes because those are police officers, not teachers. I had those as well and we hardly ever noticed them. I would be pretty damn aware if I saw a teacher carrying something around.

My point was as a student I saw a firearm everyday and it didn't phase me or make me feel unsafe, if a teacher is not mentally ill and has previously owned a firearm, it wouldn't phase me really if a teacher was concealing and carrying a firearm.

 

[Joates]

Fuck your 'I have a hobby and I dont care if ten thousand people have to die' standpoint.

Its attitudes like yours that need to slowly be rotted away, honestly. That sort of thing is the 'gun culture' shit that doesn't exist in places with very low gun violence rates. I know its what you were probably raised with and it feels normal to you, and I'm sure that you treat your hobby very responsibly, but defending it to such extremes comes at a price.

I have a hobby of driving, should I be banned from doing that because thousands of people fuck up behind the wheel every year.

Your argument is more "fuck the outrageously larger population of gun owners that arent murderous lunatics if a few cant handle life".

 

[Gahiggidy]

I believe I was being sarcastic! But to entertain your question, no I don't think that would have affected what occurred today. The shooter had an agenda/mission and was determined for a particular outcome. And you know the problem is? Before all of this... the shooter was likely a law abiding citizen with no bad intentions. We all are. But things can happen and we lose mental control in the blink of an eye. Then what? Do we just throw our hands up and say... problem is too big to fix and give up? If mental evals are too expensive and time consuming on top of background checks, and various other restrictions... then what do we do to reduce gun related violence?

I'm not a proponent, but isn't one of the main arguments for decriminalizing drugs is that it will greatly reduce crime related to the drug trade? (gun violence being a big part).

 

[FLEABttn]

no, the point was let's make meaningful laws that work and can have a meaningful, positive impact on curbing violence (presumably the point). not stupid laws that won't have an effect on anyone but the people not looking to commit crimes.

such a law wouldn't stop a single criminal or person with criminal intent from going about their crime.

So you want a law to be effective and not idealistic. Understood.

Just goes to show how short sighted some of these ideas are.

Based on some of your comments, I'm unconvinced you'd be okay with ideas that aren't short sighted.

I have a hobby of driving, should I be banned from doing that because thousands of people fuck up behind the wheel every year.

Utility...

 

[7Th]

So they can break into your home and steal it?

In my ideal scenario, all guns would be smart guns only the license owner would be able to use

Are you seriously comparing alcohol to GUNS? Seriously? Alcohol isn't a killing machine.

 

[bud]

guns should be banned all together.

less guns means less gun violence.

 

[Arcteryx]

In my ideal scenario, all guns would be smart guns only the license owner would be able to use

Are you seriously comparing alcohol to GUNS? Seriously? Alcohol isn't a killing machine.

It isn't? Tell that to the families who have loved ones killed by drunk drivers every year.

 

[Joates]

In my ideal scenario, all guns would be smart guns only the license owner would be able to use

Are you seriously comparing alcohol to GUNS? Seriously? Alcohol isn't a killing machine.

There's a bunch of Moms who would disagree.

 

[LProtag]

If I took a gun to my classroom, even if my students trusted me completely, they would still be afraid.

I'd also be putting a gun in an environment where I don't want any guns.

The solution to a problem like this isn't to add everything we don't want into an environment in order to keep out that same thing.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Just goes to show how short sighted some of these ideas are.

Sad thing is those extremes drown out the more sensible ideas we've seen.

 

[diehard]

Are you seriously comparing alcohol to GUNS? Seriously? Alcohol isn't a killing machine.

really? about 20,000 people each year would disagree.

 

[Seanspeed]

I have a hobby of driving, should I be banned from doing that because thousands of people fuck up behind the wheel every year.

Your argument is more "fuck the outrageously larger population of gun owners that arent murderous lunatics if a few cant handle life".

Driving is pretty necessary for a lot of Americans. Shooting things, not so much.

 

[Timedog]

The fact that an individual might be responsible with guns (the "i always lock it up and exhibit strict gun safety") argument is a terrible argument against gun control. Gun control does not address you specifically, but addresses a problem with the whole of the populace. Policy should err on the side of societal good, as societal good is the fundamental purpose of government.

 

[7Th]

It isn't? Tell that to the families who have loved ones killed by drunk drivers every year.

I believe all CARS should be tagged with GPS devices, actually.

 

[Various Artists]

I am so sick to my stomach that this happened.

Unless guns never existed or had been outright banned forever I don't think this would have been prevented. The guns were stolen from his mother who he murdered. She was a school teacher who legally purchased the guns. Whether or not they were locked in a safe or openly available we may never know. Hopefully they were locked away since her son was supposedly autistic.

I sometimes wonder if the guns are the probem or the glorification of guns by various media is. Actors and game characters are posed to look bad ass with a shotgun over there shoulder or a pistol ready to shoot by their face. Perhaps looking down gun barrel on red dead redemptions cover effects us after a while, desensitized us. So many tv show ads and movie ads show "heroes" mowing down people with guns with little to no consequences and they are praised for it.

Obviously this media shouldn't be banned but perhaps not allowing guns on movie posters tv ads or game covers could be a start to make guns "less cool"

 

[Aquavelvaman]

Asking teachers to carry guns is the worst idea I have heard in my life.

 

[Gahiggidy]

Here's one idea... invent an ammo chamber that only opens up with the thumb print of the registered owner or trusted family member.

 

[Devolution]

guns should be banned all together.

less guns means less gun violence.

I think people have a right to some home defense. As someone who's basically been peeped on from a stranger while home alone, at some point I want a gun, especially if I lived in a shitty area. That said anyone who wants to obtain a gun should go through mental health evaluations, thorough background checks (including those who live with them) and mandatory classes.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

Fuck your 'I have a hobby and I dont care if ten thousand people have to die' standpoint.

Its attitudes like yours that need to slowly be rotted away, honestly. That sort of thing is the 'gun culture' shit that doesn't exist in places with very low gun violence rates. I know its what you were probably raised with and it feels normal to you, and I'm sure that you treat your hobby very responsibly, but defending it to such extremes comes at a price.

Did I say I don't care about people dying? There's nothing wrong with my attitude other than you don't like it. And what "extreme" have I gone to? I've not threatened anyone, I'm not saying gun laws don't need to be tweaked and in some cases changed. I'm simply standing up for my right to own a firearm.

What is this "gun culture" your saying I'm a part of? Because I own one? Define it for me instead of trying to define me as some gun nut hick.

 

[7Th]

Here's one idea... invent an ammo chamber that only opens up with the thumb print of the registered owner or trusted family member.

It already exists.

 

[Joates]

If I took a gun to my classroom, even if my students trusted me completely, they would still be afraid.

I'd also be putting a gun in an environment where I don't want any guns.

The solution to a problem like this isn't to add everything we don't want into an environment in order to keep out that same thing.

No offense, but I bet you would likely be more afraid than half your students. Its kind of where education could play a key role... Dont you think?

Do kids get terrified in home ec when the kitchen knives are brought out?

 

[TTOOLL]

I believe it's a matter of gun culture, which derives from gun possession. So, if it were possible to decrease the number of available guns it would be also possible to "eliminate" this gun culture in the very long run.

Of course, there will always be a bunch of crazy people around killing others ='(

 

[Seanspeed]

She was a school teacher who legally purchased the guns.

Is it normal for school teachers over in Germany or England to own a guns(plural)? This is what I'm talking about. Gun culture is so rampant here. Its normal for anybody to have one or two or five, despite them being extremely potent death instruments.

 

[jamesinclair]

Most of gun violence is a direct result of plain vanilla crime, not mass crazed shootings. Crime, poverty and drugs are certainly solvable problems that don't require a change in gun regulation.

Most guin violence is a result of crime, or crimes of passion?

Because you cant solve people getting fired, getting cheated on, or getting drunk and aggressive.

You can do things to ensure they dont have a gun when that happens.

 

[FLEABttn]

Do kids get terrified in home ec when the kitchen knives are brought out?

No because utility.

 

[woober]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Db0Y4qIZ4PA#t=174s

Chris Rock on Gun Control.

Relevant.

 

[Devolution]

No offense, but I bet you would likely be more afraid than half your students. Its kind of where education could play a key role... Dont you think?

Do kids get terrified in home ec when the kitchen knives are brought out?

I don't know about you but I pin my food to the wall and shoot bullets instead of cutting it.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Its attitudes like yours that need to slowly be rotted away, honestly. That sort of thing is the 'gun culture' shit that doesn't exist in places with very low gun violence rates. I know its what you were probably raised with and it feels normal to you, and I'm sure that you treat your hobby very responsibly, but defending it to such extremes comes at a price.

Just a point of contention here: I'm not sure how we define "gun culture", but some countries have very high gun/capita ownership rates and yet very low gun violence. Switzerland, Cyprus, France, Sweden, Canada, Norway, and a couple of others. Some of those countries very much have a culture of gun ownership as it regards hunting or military training yet don't kill each other.

It's important to study the underlying socioeconomic, ethnic, cultural and historical reasons that would cause the American experience to be so different.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Db0Y4qIZ4PA#t=174s

Chris Rock on Gun Control.

Relevant.

always funny, but not relevant. artificially-increased bullet prices would just create a strong black market that bares little difference to any other underground market for illegal products. it's not like the materials make bullets will have become scarce or that the price of bullets would have increased in any other country. we'd just give cartels another product they know a lot about to sell to us.

 

[Timedog]

Here's one idea... invent an ammo chamber that only opens up with the thumb print of the registered owner or trusted family member.

"or trusted family member"? How would you regulate that?

Also, if someone wanted to circumvent that, someone would probably be able to do so within a relatively short time period. Tough to say how widespread that kind of hacking would be though.

 

[pestul]

Fuck your ideal standpoint. I'm a law-biding, tax paying citizen and I'll be damned if you or like minded legislation tries to prevent me from owning a firearm. Whether it be used for hunting, home defense, or general target shooting.

I'm cool with that. As long as you're submitted to psychiatric assessments every year. Seriously, you have to be mentally healthy throughout life if you own any gun.

 

[pigeon]

I think people have a right to some home defense. As someone who's basically been peeped on from a stranger while home alone, at some point I want a gun, especially if I lived in a shitty area. That said anyone who wants to obtain a gun should go through mental health evaluations, thorough background checks (including those who live with them) and mandatory classes.

This is basically what I think too. On the other hand, Connecticut already has mandatory classes and background checks...so a little bit more might be necessary.

Overall, I think we have to recognize that America is just way more violent in every way than most developed countries. That's what we need to figure out how to change.

 

[Gigglepoo]

I have a hobby of driving, should I be banned from doing that because thousands of people fuck up behind the wheel every year.

How often do people purposely drive a car through a classroom or into a crowd of people?

 

[Arcteryx]

I'm cool with that. As long as your submitted to psychiatric assessments every year. Seriously, you have to be mentally healthy throughout life if you own any gun.

And you should be required to blow into a breathalyzer before you can start your car.

Spoiler

serious

 

[Gahiggidy]

"or trusted family member"? How would you regulate that?

....

Why would you need or want to regulate it? Let the gun owner decide who can have access.

 

[pestul]

And you should be required to blow into a breathalyzer before you can start your car.

Spoiler

serious

I know people that already have this requirement.. so yes as well.

Also, I guess everyone who has access to your guns would have to be mentally stable as well. It gets tough.. but fuck, something has to be done.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I'm cool with that. As long as your submitted to psychiatric assessments every year. Seriously, you have to be mentally healthy throughout life if you own any gun.

agreed, but there's gotta be nuance here too. not everyone who is "all together" is a potential homicidal maniac.

and again I ask: who's paying the psychiatrist. that's a pretty hefty bill, and we're looking to reduce government costs, not increase them.

"or trusted family member"? How would you regulate that?

Also, if someone wanted to circumvent that, someone would probably be able to do so within a relatively short time period. Tough to say how widespread that kind of hacking would be though.

in such a hypothetical, that would be pretty simple.

such a "thumb print" gun would be able to accept say...4 thumb prints into it's memory. any authorized would be able to use the firearm.

but yea, hacks could become an issue...though probably not in the middle of a situation where you need to protect yourself. more like in the case of theft.

 

[Seanspeed]

Did I say I don't care about people dying? There's nothing wrong with my attitude other than you don't like it. And what "extreme" have I gone to? I've not threatened anyone, I'm not saying gun laws don't need to be tweaked and in some cases changed. I'm simply standing up for my right to own a firearm.

What is this "gun culture" your saying I'm a part of? Because I own one? Define it for me instead of trying to define me as some gun nut hick.

I'm not defining you as a gun nut hick at all. You added the 'hick' part yourself, I went out of my way to try and say you were probably a responsible user of one. I've got close friends who gun hunt. I've even got a shoulder of deer in my freezer from a deer one of them killed. I know that not all gun owners are crazy or anything. I realize that people are raised in a way where this gun culture is normal for them. The problem comes from the side-effects of it all. Relaxed acquisition of guns and general easy access to firearms is a huge problem because it means relaxed acquisition of guns for anyone. We've gotten to the point where people have proven they are not responsible enough in general to handle the use of them. We are entirely too impulsive and angry a species for us to trust everyone to be responsible with them. It sucks for you, but its for the greater good.

 

[Devolution]

This is basically what I think too. On the other hand, Connecticut already has mandatory classes and background checks...so a little bit more might be necessary.

Overall, I think we have to recognize that America is just way more violent in every way than most developed countries. That's what we need to figure out how to change.

They're still figuring out who those are registered to right?