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Writers Guild Association drops the 'videogame' category

S

SLoWMoTIoN

Unconfirmed Member
Of course not.
Video game writing is much worse than that.

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Reactions: Fuz

Enjay

Banned
This is great news. And for the record video game writers and netflix original writers are just as garbage as each other they even follow the same bullshit wokeness. I can't wait for the next netflix season of Baki so we can see one of Yujiro's kids became the most dangerous transgendered underground grappler ever.
 
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petran79

Banned
At least Japanese have the light novel category, where most visual novels would fit. Western games would belong there too.
 

Ballthyrm

Member
All the writers that actually have talent write for hollywood or other places.

I think it goes in difficulty levels. Presuming some level of success, it goes like this IMHO

Book Authors -> Playwright -> Prestige TV Showrunners -> Movie Screenwriter -> Lyricist -> Investigative journalist (ie: the real ones) -> Video game writer >>>>(graham's number)>>>>> game "journalist" >>> resetEra post
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I think it goes in difficulty levels. Presuming some level of success, it goes like this IMHO

Book Authors -> Playwright -> Prestige TV Showrunners -> Movie Screenwriter -> Lyricist -> Investigative journalist (ie: the real ones) -> Video game writer >>>>(graham's number)>>>>> game "journalist" >>> resetEra post >>> Jason Schreier and his video game book
Fixed your post
 

Azelover

Titanic was called the Ship of Dreams, and it was. It really was.
Indeed. Environmental storytelling works well.
Yes certainly. Metroid Prime comes to mind. And also Half Life. It's entangled with the gameplay, and the perceived outcome completely changes. These stories would never work well on a fully passive medium.
 

Dontero

Banned
Still better writing than anything in a video game ever.
When unremitting tripe like The Last of Us is hailed as the "Citizen Kane of gaming", that gives you an idea of how low people's standards are when it comes to writing in games.

Maybe among yuppie console plebs

So far the best written game by all measures and charts is Planescape Torment.
Unfortunutelly as time goes less and less people remember it or even play.

That being said. Movie industry writting is even in worse state than game industry.
 

Jay_TCE

Neo Member
I like how some people think publishers/devs will put more effort in gameplay. Nah fam, they'll put more effort into MTX and how much they can manipulate the masses to fall for their cash cows.

I also saw a comment that the Witcher series has good writing. Bruh, it's literally based on a book series.
 

manzo

Member
And nothing of value was lost. Videogame writing is terrible anyway. It's either full anime shounen stuff or then some purple-haired artistic chick makes unicorns and rainbows.
 

Ascend

Member
Story writing might generally suck for video games, but writing a story for video games is a lot harder than it is for any other medium. Why? Because video games are by nature interactive. If you actually look at it, it's a lot easier to write characters for video games than it is to write an overarching story, simply because characters are not interactive, in the sense that they can be what they are, and players have little to no influence on their personality. Video games also contributed to creating the most memorable characters in existence. Who doesn't know Mario, for example?

Writing a story for a video game generally gives you two options.
1) Either you limit the story to give players more freedom, i.e. you choose interactivity over the story (Elder Scrolls games, Minecraft, Legend of Zelda, Pokemon)
or
2) You let the story flourish as much as possible at the cost of player freedom, meaning the game will become a railroad. (Uncharted, The Last of Us, Gears of War, Halo)

Most games try to mitigate this by using both options in different sections (Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed, GTA). But this is generally not as effective as since it is less focused. For games to truly reach their maximum potential at telling a story, there must be no difference between the interaction and the story telling. In other words, the gameplay IS the story. And no one has done that (well enough) yet.

-------------------

The other issue is that many still see video games as something for children, and even beneath all the violence, there are still topics that video games are not allowed to touch in certain ways without creating a shit storm. Extra Credits did a great video about this a few years ago, and basically this limits what game developers are to do with their stories...




Leaving a few more here as a bonus...




 

brap

Banned
Sorry I was on drugs when I wrote that. TLOU is like if some random guy took all the hollywood cliches and shoved them in a game. Also I said hollywood or other places. Not every writer who works in hollywood is a talentless dumbfuck but every writer who writes for AAA games is.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
If Stranger Things was a video game and never film, it would be just as criticized story wise as any other game.

Who we playin'?
 

Oddspeak

Member
90% of everything is crap. The purpose of these award ceremonies is to -- hopefully -- put a spotlight on the 10% that isn't. Most of the crappy 90% in any medium is really popular stuff that you see marketing for every day; they're largely mediocre or just plain inoffensive and unchallenging, and that's not inherently wrong as it's often a purposeful choice. And in this day and age where any Tom, Dick, and Harry can get their hands on a camera or self-publish their lame fanfiction, no, it doesn't take any "real talent" to write a movie or a book. Both of those industries are filled to the brim with their own shallow, lowest common denominator trash.

Plus, writing in video games isn't the same as writing in books, movies, or shows. Games are different because they're driven by something those mediums don't have: direct control and influence of or within the narrative's world. A game's "writing" isn't limited to just what characters say or how the plot unfolds. It's also the degree in which the player's interactions can drive that plot. If a game can bridge its gameplay and story in a meaningful way, then it's as much of a writing accomplishment as it is a gameplay one.
 

Ballthyrm

Member
The purpose of these award ceremonies is to -- hopefully -- put a spotlight on the 10% that isn't.

I thought the purpose was for people in power to jerk each other off.
It ain't exactly democratic, even with the "industry" awards.

Time is the only judge i trust.

Awards are after the facts, after the jobs been done.
They are never going to be used as a way to rewards the true innovators.
Before Minecraft there was Infiniminer. Where are the awards for it ?

If history teached me something is that the true innovators always get shafted.
Awards a just another way to cover it all up in a new coat of paint.
 
Most movies do too.

The last academy award for best picture went to some generic cliche "they don't like each other at first but then they do" story with the groundbreaking message of "racism is bad" and where every other scene felt like the writers were watching Brooklyn 99 and went "hey, those captain Holt scenes are pretty funny, let's do that".

Yeah I don't think anyone was really cheering for that one, not even counting Spike Lee who attempted to storm out of the hall in a huff.
 

Oddspeak

Member
I thought the purpose was for people in power to jerk each other off.
It ain't exactly democratic, even with the "industry" awards.

Time is the only judge i trust.

Awards are after the facts, after the jobs been done.
They are never going to be used as a way to rewards the true innovators.
Before Minecraft there was Infiniminer. Where are the awards for it ?

If history teached me something is that the true innovators always get shafted.
Awards a just another way to cover it all up in a new coat of paint.

That's why I emphasized "hopefully," to imply that's what a worthwhile award ceremony would do, though I generally don't like them for the reasons you stated, either. At least not ones run by huge organizations.

Removing games just seems like an arbitrary decision that makes this lame practice look even worse.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
2017 Outstanding Achievement in Videogame Writing :messenger_tears_of_joy:




To be fair, the main questline writing in Horizon was actually pretty damn good, the stuff dealing with the past and the all the little swerves ("the good news", and "the bad news") on the way to the final twist revealing how the old world fell I thought was really well written. The trouble though is most stuff outside of that I thought was bland and flavourless.

Days Gone was kind of the opposite case, insofar as the dialogue and all the sideplots/subplots were tremendously well written and acted, but the main storyline is kinda perfunctory. Setting aside the inconsistencies resulting from the way they merged a branching plotline into a single narrative strand for me it was up there with ND's best work for naturalism in performance and dialog.

That the critics (mostly) failed to notice this was disappointing, but unfortunately predictable given the miserable standards of the enthusiast media. Its a situation best exemplified by the difference in reception between Nier and its 2017 sequel. The original Nier is I one of the finest localization jobs ever, and the overall story and writing are at the very least equal to its successor.

The difference of course being that Nier's 2010 release passed by almost unremarked whereas Automata received massive praise for largely repeating/riffing on the same elements. Very much like how everyone these days loves Dark Souls, while Demon's Souls remains in relative obscurity.

Things that lead me to the conclusion that rather than trying to be a vanguard for advancement and creative achievement in gaming, critics these days just seem to try and follow public taste, or at least what they perceive to be the populist line of opinion.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
2017 Outstanding Achievement in Videogame Writing :messenger_tears_of_joy:


I listened to the first minute of that video.... "leave me alone, I need time to think".

And this won awards?

Totally retarded. The voice actors don't help either.

Total cheesefest. Like Bethesda script cheesiness.

If this game won writing awards, I'd suggest every grade 9 kid in English class submit a script. Can't get any worse.
 

joe_zazen

Member
I listened to the first minute of that video.... "leave me alone, I need time to think".

And this won awards?

Totally retarded. The voice actors don't help either.

Total cheesefest. Like Bethesda script cheesiness.

If this game won writing awards, I'd suggest every grade 9 kid in English class submit a script. Can't get any worse.

maybe the game is a comedy? That was some funny shit.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
That's one of the sloppy side-missions I mentioned, and to be genuinely fair that scene was originally capped to show the somewhat iffy facial animations that were fixed-up in a post-release patch.

The main story stuff is much better in all respects, and to be truthful I'm pretty confident that if I was looking to be dickish about it could dig out far worse stuff in practically any other game of similar scale.
 

Katsura

Member
That's one of the sloppy side-missions I mentioned, and to be genuinely fair that scene was originally capped to show the somewhat iffy facial animations that were fixed-up in a post-release patch.

The main story stuff is much better in all respects, and to be truthful I'm pretty confident that if I was looking to be dickish about it could dig out far worse stuff in practically any other game of similar scale.
I'm sure you could but that just validates the point that writing in video games is shit
 
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brian0057

Banned
Story writing might generally suck for video games, but writing a story for video games is a lot harder than it is for any other medium. Why? Because video games are by nature interactive. If you actually look at it, it's a lot easier to write characters for video games than it is to write an overarching story, simply because characters are not interactive, in the sense that they can be what they are, and players have little to no influence on their personality. Video games also contributed to creating the most memorable characters in existence. Who doesn't know Mario, for example?

Writing a story for a video game generally gives you two options.
1) Either you limit the story to give players more freedom, i.e. you choose interactivity over the story (Elder Scrolls games, Minecraft, Legend of Zelda, Pokemon)
or
2) You let the story flourish as much as possible at the cost of player freedom, meaning the game will become a railroad. (Uncharted, The Last of Us, Gears of War, Halo)

Most games try to mitigate this by using both options in different sections (Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed, GTA). But this is generally not as effective as since it is less focused. For games to truly reach their maximum potential at telling a story, there must be no difference between the interaction and the story telling. In other words, the gameplay IS the story. And no one has done that (well enough) yet.

-------------------

The other issue is that many still see video games as something for children, and even beneath all the violence, there are still topics that video games are not allowed to touch in certain ways without creating a shit storm. Extra Credits did a great video about this a few years ago, and basically this limits what game developers are to do with their stories...




Leaving a few more here as a bonus...





Spot on.
That is why I consider the Thief games the pinnacle of video game storytelling.
This video illustrates that far better than I ever could.

 
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Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
I'm sure you could but that just validates the point that writing in video games is shit

I could also cherry pick all the high-spots in order to prove how remarkably good the writing and acting has become. Its not black-and-white, especially when many games are so large their quality is inevitably going to vary scene-to-scene.

You also have to factor in the disconnect between the written/spoken word and the way that its visualized technically. If a scene is crudely directed or sloppily executed its going to have a negative impact on the drama. In many instances going with a simple text or voice over alone is more effective because there's less to distract the player and/or give them reason for complaint.
 

Katsura

Member
I could also cherry pick all the high-spots in order to prove how remarkably good the writing and acting has become. Its not black-and-white, especially when many games are so large their quality is inevitably going to vary scene-to-scene.

You also have to factor in the disconnect between the written/spoken word and the way that its visualized technically. If a scene is crudely directed or sloppily executed its going to have a negative impact on the drama. In many instances going with a simple text or voice over alone is more effective because there's less to distract the player and/or give them reason for complaint.
I'd like to see those high spots. The examples people usually use to show great writing in games would be mediocre summer blockbuster movies and considering the poor state of movies in general, that's not saying much. As for the disconnect, that's because these writers are forcing a writing style used in a different media onto games. So we get a worse version of movie writing. There are exceptions to this such as Nier Automata but we all know they would have given the award to something like TloU
 
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