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[Elandyll]

Nintendo is crazy over valued, and Sony is (a bit) under valued, but that's nothing new.

What I find interesting is how much many Gaffers laund Nin profit over employment, when Sony is sticking to its (old) guns and is keeping more than 146.000+ employed across the world, while Nin has a mere 5000+.

When financial numbers fall, you'd think every other gaffer has Nin shares sometimes...

 

[tenderbrew]

On this forum we learn people don't know much about business outside of hot takes.

Fixed.

 

[Y2Kev]

Nintendo isn't inherently a more safe long term investment. People should really stop talking about finance when they don't understand anything. Sony isn't necessarily more risky than Nintendo because it has a higher return, you're just making stuff up.

By any measure sony's beta is lower than nintendo's significantly. Nintendo is a very volatile equity play. Just backing you up.

 

[wachie]

Some stocks are overvalued, news at 11.

Great post, you moved the discussion forward.

Nintendo is crazy over valued, and Sony is (a bit) under valued, but that's nothing new.

What I find interesting is how much many Gaffers laund Nin profit over employment, when Sony is sticking to its (old) guns and is keeping more than 146.000+ employed across the world, while Nin has a mere 5000+.

When financial numbers fall, you'd think every other gaffer has Nin shares sometimes...

Pretty much, agreed.

 

[faridmon]

''Super Mario’s Maker Should Bow to Sony''

Can't believe a professional journalist is getting paid for this

 

[Kyzer]

Nintendo is crazy over valued, and Sony is (a bit) under valued, but that's nothing new.

What I find interesting is how much many Gaffers laund Nin profit over employment, when Sony is sticking to its (old) guns and is keeping more than 146.000+ employed across the world, while Nin has a mere 5000+.

When financial numbers fall, you'd think every other gaffer has Nin shares sometimes...

Theyre both overvalued but thats pretty par for the course for wall street. Also for what its worth Nintendo actively refrains from laying off employees because they want them to have job security, and thats a pretty good policy towards their workers, despite obviously not being able to compete with a technology company in sheer number of jobs created they are certainly creating quality jobs. And whats wrong with being impressed with Nintendos ability to turn a profit? It doesnt mean these people dont care about jobs because they applaud profits

 

[tenderbrew]

By any measure sony's beta is lower than nintendo's significantly. Nintendo is a very volatile equity play. Just backing you up.

I would have thought the same, but I'm seeing the opposite right now, at least on the ADRs.

 

[MisterR]

''Super Mario’s Maker Should Bow to Sony''

Can't believe a professional journalist is getting paid for this

Jouranlists generally don't come up with the headlines for their articles. The WSJ doesn't give a shit about console wars, outside of what it may mean for stocks. Some editor or headline writer was just trying to come up with a flashy headline. The actual meat of the article is pretty good. Don't get upset by a silly headline.

 

[rudger]

By any measure sony's beta is lower than nintendo's significantly. Nintendo is a very volatile equity play. Just backing you up.

That's why I love them!

But really, lots of investors just don't understand Nintendo. Their stock would spike when rumors of Chinese Nintendo consoles came out - which if you followed them you knew made no sense. Then it plummeted when they came out and said it made no sense. Or when it spiked on Pokémon GO success, and then fell when they came out and said they didn't make that.

But they've done a great job reducing costs and consolidating their divisions for further cost savings. The fact they could make any money during the Wii U while avoiding big cuts should show how hard they worked to streamline their business and show what a stable company they are even when they have nothing to sell.

Now they've expanded into multiple arenas while not having to make too many risky investments to do so. They are a safe stable bet for the long haul. $40 is a bit steep if you don't believe all of this though. But when it was below $15, that was just ridiculous.

 

[Kyzer]

Jouranlists generally don't come up with the headlines for their articles. The WSJ doesn't give a shit about console wars, outside of what it may mean for stocks. Some editor or headline writer was just trying to come up with a flashy headline. Maybe try dealing with the actual meat of the article instead of getting upset about fanboy bullshit.

So you acknowledge its fanboy bullshit lol

I dont even care though, it doesn't matter

 

[Patriots7]

Conglomerate discount.

Selling Sony Pictures would unlock a significant amount of value, but Sony would still trade at a discount. Selling/spinning-off Sony Entertainment (Pictures, Music, PlayStation), would probably be the best move. That Company would probably be around $100bn based on what peers trade at.

Leave OldSony as just sensors and hardware.

 

[Jigorath]

I don't get this.
Everything other than playstation is burning the ground.
Even the mobile division...
What are they talking about?

Ain't 2012 anymore friend.

Check an earning report for once.

 

[Chauzu]

The article is written for the average non-gamer investor, who will just see the title as trying to inject a little color into the dry topic of comparing valuations. It is only going to upset people who are emotionally invested in their favorite game company and hyper-sensitive about any perceived slight.

For non-gamers the title is equivalent to something like "No more tears for Pfizer, as it laps Johnson & Johnson". Not so upsetting, right?

I just wanted to clarify the article title does not upset me in anyway, it is obvious for any sane person that Sony is the bigger company than Nintendo, and even if I don't know much about stocks I do know they aren't always truthful for value.

I just thought the title was poor clickbait and I expected more from a site like WSJ: at least the article looks solid tho!

 

[spekkeh]

So this is why the stock suddenly plummeted and I lost my earnings. So that Jacky Wong could buy in low.

 

[Beegeous]

The two companies can't be compared. Nintendo are a pure play gaming company whilst Sony deal in general electronics. As a result the business models are completely incomparable.

It's like comparing Nintendo to Microsoft at a market cap level. By that rationale Microsoft would rule the gaming world according to the WSJ.

 

[RRockman]

I thought major news sites didn't play console wars.


I am a fool.

 

[DealWithIt]

So you acknowledge its fanboy bullshit lol

I dont even care though, it doesn't matter

No. No he did not. He literally said the WSJ did not give a shit about the console wars.

Why is that? The company still manages to make a profit in the hardest times. Sure those 5 year+ income graphs might look like a rollercoaster but does it warrant the "highly volatile" label?

Highly Volatile is what you call the OUIJA.

The stock price is volatile. See how it spiked post PkGo even though it wasn't really nintendo's.

 

[Pif]

By any measure sony's beta is lower than nintendo's significantly. Nintendo is a very volatile equity play. Just backing you up.

Why is that? The company still manages to make a profit in the hardest times. Sure those 5 year+ income graphs might look like a rollercoaster but does it warrant the "highly volatile" label?

Highly Volatile is what you call the OUIJA.

 

[tenderbrew]

I thought major news sites didn't play console wars.


I am a fool.

They play click wars. Literally wouldn't matter on industry and I doubt that guy cares at all about "console wars".

 

[Earthbound64]

"The difference reflects the market's blind optimism that Nintendo can pull off stunning growth."


"Blind optimism"?... Sure... It's not like there's any reason to expect growth in the future as opposed to the past 5 years...
Oh, wait, that's right.. The Switch is selling better than the Wii U...

 

[SgtCobra]

I thought major news sites didn't play console wars.


I am a fool.

That's the thing, they don't care about that console wars nonsense and just came up with some stupid "provocative" or sensationalistic headline for its readers who are not invested in this industry as much as the average GAFfer is.

 

[GregLombardi]

By any measure sony's beta is lower than nintendo's significantly. Nintendo is a very volatile equity play. Just backing you up.

Generally I agree with what you've posted about this situation. However, I would caution on two points: based on investor questions alone at their meeting, it is clear that rational investors are not the ones buying up Nintendo stock. The second point I would make is that if you were a truly rational investor, you might question the viability of the traditional console hardware model, a model that Nintendo has effectively exited in favor of devices that are far more accessible and understandable. Now, they have still have Switch stock issues and they haven't hit mobile out of the park (with the exception of Pokemon Go), but they are well on their way to establishing a devastating control of the mobile console space.

That might be worth quite a few pennies down the line.

 

[Y2Kev]

I would have thought the same, but I'm seeing the opposite right now, at least on the ADRs.

What time period and what index do you use to regress?

 

[InsaneTiger]

Wow that article title is nasty.

 

[Renekton]

In this thread we learn people don't know much about Sony as a business outside of hot takes.

I'm not sure if the auditors checking their books know as well, these conglomerates are like mazes.

 

[tenderbrew]

What time period and what index do you use to regress?

Didn't do my own calcs - just did a quick compare on my Reuters terminal. Not sure what they use, but most likely 5 year and Nikkei I would assume.

 

[Air]

Nintendo's value is in its ip. They're doing theme parks, cartoons, licensing, mobile and their games are doing well now. Sony could be valued higher but they're run very poorly. Nintendo is undervalued at this point I think.

 

[spekkeh]

That's the thing, they don't care about that console wars nonsense and just came up with some stupid "provocative" or sensationalistic headline for its readers who are not invested in this industry as much as the average GAFfer is.

I have no idea how you can pretend that title is not straight console war bullshit.

 

[Y2Kev]

Didn't do my own calcs - just did a quick compare on my Reuters terminal. Not sure what they use, but most likely 5 year and Nikkei I would assume.

I usually do five year weekly against the msci. I guess it makes sense to retract where I said "any measure" lol.

 

[Yjynx]

Just from the first page alone.... Do people really lives in the bubble? Like what year is it? I'm really afraid the stereotype that gamer that never leave their basement is true......


Stocks are Stocks thats how it works - that thread where people jerking to Nintendo market cap higher than Sony was quite something.....

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Nintendo and Sony are both great gaming brand, but there can only be 1 Disney of video games. Every kid (for the most part) grows up playing Nintendo games, so mass appeal and nostalgic factor is stronger than Sony's. Sony is more for hardcore fan base and everyone who loves gaming loves Nintendo IPs

Actually, considering the sales of Nintendo consoles and games, compared to stuff like Angry Birds and Minecraft, this is no longer true. Our generation grew up playing Nintendo games. Every kid after 1990, at least until the success of the Wii, would have grown up playing Playstation, with only a small portion having access to Nintendo's games.

Far far more kids these days grow up playing Angry Birds and Minecraft than Nintendo properties. And Nintendo is only really now trying to capitalize on expanded media to leverage their IP in wider non-gaming mediums, like mobile Apps, movies and theme parks. They should have been doing this decades ago.

Nintendo isn't even close to Disney and I'd say that unless they can be successful in their future non-gaming ventures, as well as actually start taking mobile gaming on iOS/Android seriously, they'll be at a real risk of their properties becoming less an less relevant to young kids (especially in the west) as time goes on.

 

[Earthbound64]

Just from the first page alone.... Do people really lives in the bubble? Like what year is it? I'm really afraid the stereotype that gamer that never leave their basement id true......

What are you actually trying to say here?

 

[Makai]

Wow, Nintendo's market cap is huge. I always think of them as a modestly sized company.

 

[Tripolygon]

I have no idea how you can pretend that title is not straight console war bullshit.

Its a sensationalist title, they don't give a shit about whatever side of the console war you are on. Another way you can read the title is Nintendo market cap should be much lower than Sony or Sony should be valued more than nintendo, but thats not catchy is it?

Another way to look at it is Sony used to be worth more than Apple.

 

[Lasthope106]

I am glad that Nintendo stock price is doing well. Good on them and on their investors. However, they have been there before and the blew it. At the height of the Wii, electronic companies were salivating to supply Nintendo in the same league as they did Apple. Look at what they had to do when the WiiU failed.

Sony on the other hand has been reigned back under Kaz. He has a steady hand and a lot of their divisions are now profitable. So what if the pictures division isn't doing well. That's why they are a diversified corporation. I personally expect the PS4 division to continue to do well, and their camera and sensor division is going to be very strong in the near future.

If I had money to invest right now, I would buy Sony.

 

[DealWithIt]

Nintendo's value is in its ip. They're doing theme parks, cartoons, licensing, mobile and their games are doing well now. Sony could be valued higher but they're run very poorly. Nintendo is undervalued at this point I think.

Ummm. Undervalued? Are you sure? I think all the folks who know their stuff in the thread disagree. FWIW I disagree too, though I'm not claiming particular expertise beyond seeing the comparisons between the financial reports.

 

[Usobuko]

The thing with companies that could have explosive growth is they are always valued at a premium.

With Sony, you can somehow gauge PlayStation division performance with PS+ subscribers growing till the end of current gen. They already won the console war.

With Nintendo, it's all about potential of their ips, specifically in mobile games. It's priced in such a manner that they expect Nintendo to be juggernaut rivaling or exceeding supercell.

 

[entremet]

This is why I always stay in my lane with stock articles. People do this for a living and still have a hard time predicting successfully.

 

[Godzilla's Left Toe]

Actually, considering the sales of Nintendo consoles and games, compared to stuff like Angry Birds and Minecraft, this is no longer true. Our generation grew up playing Nintendo games. Every kid after 1990, at least until the success of the Wii, would have grown up playing Playstation, with only a small portion having access to Nintendo's games.

Far far more kids these days grow up playing Angry Birds and Minecraft than Nintendo properties. And Nintendo is only really now trying to capitalize on expanded media to leverage their IP in wider non-gaming mediums, like mobile Apps, movies and theme parks. They should have been doing this decades ago.

Nintendo isn't even close to Disney and I'd say that unless they can be successful in their future non-gaming ventures, as well as actually start taking mobile gaming on iOS/Android seriously, they'll be at a real risk of their properties becoming less an less relevant to young kids (especially in the west) as time goes on.

People keep forgetting they sold over 100 million units of the Game Boy handheld over 80 million of GBA and 150 of million units of DS.

 

[Kodaman]

I expect that kind of title to be in a Gaf thread.. a really bad one

 

[Jigorath]

I have no idea how you can pretend that title is not straight console war bullshit.

The title is to get people to click on the article.

That's journalism 101!

The article itself is fine.

 

[Patriots7]

Its a sensationalist title, they don't give a shit about whatever side of the console war you are on. Another way you can read the title is Nintendo market cap should be much lower than Sony or Sony should be valued more than nintendo, but thats not catchy is it?

Another way to look at it is Sony used to be worth more than Apple.

Imagine if Idei had succeeded and acquired Apple. Jesus, no company has shot themselves in the foot more than Sony has.

 

[Aurongel]

Just from the first page alone.... Do people really lives in the bubble? Like what year is it? I'm really afraid the stereotype that gamer that never leave their basement is true......


Stocks are Stocks thats how it works - that thread where people jerking to Nintendo market cap higher than Sony was quite something.....

Tribalism makes for relatively entertaining discourse on a niche gaming forum but it translates quite poorly to stock advice.

 

[2+2=5]

I wonder if this article will have any effect on the stock values.

 

[noshten]

People keep forgetting they sold over 100 million units of the Game Boy handheld over 80 million of GBA and 150 of million units of DS.

Yes, and in terms of audience their handheld division has had titles that appealed to different demographics compared to other console manufacturers. Pokemon and Mario are still one of the most wildly known franchises for kids growing up, while Splatoon has become a smash hit in Japan and could join those games in terms of pedigree this year.

In terms of 2017 outside of Splatoon 2 and SMO there is also a little something called Animal Crossing, which sold over 5 million in Japan alone. The most striking thing about AC was that around 53% of the initial owners of AC in Japan were women.
With AC Mobile releasing later this year and potentially an AC on the Switch in 2018, the shift in demographics could potentially be pretty substantial.

 

[daxgame]

damn, sometimes the WSJ really comes out with these cringe titles\articles... yes, Sony is a much bigger company.
That's why the other segments can drag the whole company down even when the gaming one does super-well.

There isn't really much more than that.

 

[Rodolfo Brito]

Welp... Buy on the low, sell on the high.

 

[Kyzer]

No. No he did not. He literally said the WSJ did not give a shit about the console wars.


The stock price is volatile. See how it spiked post PkGo even though it wasn't really nintendo's.

The headline is the epitome of fanboy bullshit, regardless of if WSJ meant for it to be, and no I dont buy that the people writing articles analyzing video game business have no idea about video games. Just because the article proceeds to be a business analysis does not somehow excuse a shitty clickbait fanboy headline. But yeah anyways it doesnt matter much. It doesnt invalidate their analysis in any way, but lets not pretend that thinking a shitty headline is a shitty headline makes people console warriors, they wrote the headline, its open to criticism

 

[Kodiak]

I think Nintendo is fairly valued. They have huge potential in mobile and expanding their IP to outside properties (theme parks, advertising, TV and movies...), two areas that Sony doesn't have the IP to crack.

But yeah, Sony is slightly undervalued.

 

[DarkConfidant]

WSJ said

"download goodies"

.

Can we call the PS+ games that from now on? XD



I agree with the WSJ. It is overvalued. That's generally how hype and stock prices go.
Nintendo is looking good, but I wouldn't invest.