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[sense]

Any rumors about which one will be more powerful? The super saiyan comparisons were hilarious back in 2013.

I would assume ms would like to come in ahead this time in terms of power

 

[Hedrush]

Damn console gaming is expensive!

The PS4 cost me £349 at launch 2 and a half years ago, I'd say I've got my money's worth out of it. People upgrade their mobile phones every 2 years at a cost of £500-£600. Console gaming isn't that expensive.

 

[Demanufacture]

The PS4 cost me £349 at launch 2 and a half years ago, I'd say I've got my money's worth it. People upgrade their mobile phones every 2 years at a cost of £500-£600. Console gaming isn't that expensive.

Well with this new upgrade I don't see console gaming being much cheaper than PC gaming now and without the benefits PC brings..Consoles kind of lost their simplicity no?

 

[vpance]

They may be planning a shrink, although I don't know if that would require them to foot the bill on a Jaguar shrink etc.

But I think 299 should be possible... 299/499 in that case. Here in euro land, retail has it for 320 now.

If they can't bring PS4 standard any lower than 300, I think it would only increase the likelihood of a 499+ pricetag on the premium model.

Part of me thinks they will opt to go 299/399 for a while, clear out the standard model, and then keep PS4K as the only one, maybe in a years time post launch. But at 399 PS4K won't be the beast some are hoping it to be

The hinted-at slim version contains 25% fewer traces and ancillary components, so it's definitely cheaper to make.

Simultaneous double slim launch with fat PS4 still on shelves seems like a logistical and retail nightmare.

 

[Lucifon]

I think people will be surprised about how much this new PS4 is an improvement over the last, but not in the way you think. It's not going to be a huge leap. Think closer to N3DS vs 3DS. It's basically a more amped up Slim edition.

 

[TheDarkKnight774]

Well with this new upgrade I don't see console gaming being much cheaper than PC gaming now and without the benefits PC brings..Consoles kind of lost their simplicity no?

I don't see how you can say PC game hardware is price competitive. A good graphics card upgrade alone is $200-300. And that doesn't count all the other components. (CPU, Ram, HDD, case, power supply, monitor, etc)

Now if you want to say an upgrade of a graphics card after you have everything then that could be a closer comparison.

 

[Nikodemos]

Part of me thinks they will opt to go 299/399 for a while, clear out the standard model, and then keep PS4K as the only one, maybe in a years time. But at 399 PS4K won't be the beast some are hoping it to be



Simultaneous double slim launch with fat PS4 still on shelves seems like a logistical and retail nightmare.

Nono, the PS4k will be the new 'fat' model (since it needs the cooling), while the redesigned 'old' PS4 will be the 'slim'.

Or so the rumours hint.

 

[blueyesdevil]

Hm if this means I can play Final Fantasy XV at a solid 30 (or even 60?!) fps then I'm down.

 

[gaming_noob]

I would assume ms would like to come in ahead this time in terms of power

They would like to but can they? Maybe CBOAT can join the discussion.

 

[NoWayOut]

I have no problem with a PS4K if I can play UC4, Bloodborne, Drive Club, GTAV, etc at 1080p/60fps. I'll get one for sure if that's the case.

 

[Demanufacture]

I don't see how you can say PC game hardware is price competitive. A good graphics card upgrade alone is $200-300. And that doesn't count all the other components. (CPU, Ram, HDD, case, power supply, monitor, etc)

Now if you want to say an upgrade of a graphics card after you have everything then that could be a closer comparison.

I5 3570k, 8gb ram from 2012 with a 660, only upgraded to a 970 last year for £250 and can run every modern game mostly at 60fps. This upgrade mid cycle makes console gaming much more in line with PC gaming cost and without many of the benefits that PC gaming brings. I'm just not sure this is a good idea for Sony.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Dark times ahead in console gaming. Fractured markets. Constant upgrades. No firm ground to stand on anywhere.

 

[Dahaka]

man, the fear of someone having something better is really strong with some.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

I have no problem with a PS4K if I can play UC4, Bloodborne, Drive Club, GTAV, etc at 1080p/60fps. I'll get one for sure if that's the case.

First party games might get an update. I doubt 3rd party developers will bother with patching older games though.

QUOTE=Dahaka;199515248]man, the fear of someone having something better is really strong with some.[/QUOTE]

That is what boils down. People do not like the idea of not getting to play the best version of FFVII Remake or TLOU 2. I would not like that either, but luckily I'm all for the upgrade.

 

[Hedrush]

Well with this new upgrade I don't see console gaming being much cheaper than PC gaming now and without the benefits PC brings..Consoles kind of lost their simplicity no?

I dont think consoles have lost their simplicity, anything but. I used to be a PC gamer but I now prefer the ease of use of consoles. With the PC I always felt that my hardware was going out of date pretty quickly. That high end GPU I bought a year ago for £400 is now superseded by a more powerful GPU and then I'll need a new PsU, more ram etc etc, then drivers drivers drivers, Windows crashes. Consoles dont give me that headache, I turn it on, I play a game, I turn it off.

 

[photogaz]

When I first heard about all this PS4.5 mallarky I did think they had lost their marbles. However, it could actually be pretty good.

The PS4 has gone down the route of being PC based for the first time. Providing the software catalogue is the same and with the enhanced PS4 you get a graphics boost or fps boost, I don't see it being an issue.

From a developers standpoint it will be harder to code games for. However, it'd be nowhere near as difficult with multi configurations that exist within the PC space.

 

[vpance]

Nono, the PS4k will be the new 'fat' model (since it needs the cooling), while the redesigned 'old' PS4 will be the 'slim'.

Or so the rumours hint.

Wasn't aware of any slim rumors for the old model.

So they'll need to clear out the old model before they bring out the 2 new ones.. Or at least they'll want to. Otherwise they'll have 3 different models on shelves come holiday season.

If they can pull off $249/$399 they will sell massive amounts of PS4s this year.

 

[Dahaka]

Well with this new upgrade I don't see console gaming being much cheaper than PC gaming now and without the benefits PC brings..Consoles kind of lost their simplicity no?

the simplicity of console gaming is in its system, usability and range of options, and not about price.

Getting more frequent hardware updates doesn't change it. I don't know how you came to this conclusion.

 

[HandsomeCharles]

The PS4 cost me £349 at launch 2 and a half years ago, I'd say I've got my money's worth out of it. People upgrade their mobile phones every 2 years at a cost of £500-£600. Console gaming isn't that expensive.

I think you'll find that the majority of people that upgrade their phones every two years do so because they have a phone contract. The cost of the phone is subsidised by their monthly fee, so the wallet "hit" is substantially less than the overall cost of the phone. (Assuming their monthly fee stays at around the same rate.)

A one-off payment of £0-100 every two years for a new device is a much more approachable prospect than paying £300-400.

 

[Man]

From a developers standpoint it will be harder to code games for. However, it'd be nowhere near as difficult with multi configurations that exist within the PC space.

It will go from "optimize for 1x system to reach XX million users" to "optimize for 1.1x systems to reach XX million users". Insignificant.

 

[Elandyll]

I5 3570k, 8gb ram from 2012 with a 660, only upgraded to a 970 last year for £250 and can run every modern game mostly at 60fps. This upgrade mid cycle makes console gaming much more in line with PC gaming cost and without many of the benefits that PC gaming brings. I'm just not sure this is a good idea for Sony.

MSRP?

Because deals/ promos also exist on consoles that have been out a while / depending on season/ Holiday.

Edit: for example, my 2nd PS4 cost me essentially $209 last November ($299 with 3 games remastered and a $90 gift card)

 

[mindsale]

That Uncharted 4 PS4 looks less attractive by the minute.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Any rumors about which one will be more powerful? The super saiyan comparisons were hilarious back in 2013.

NX= Base level Goteneks

PS4K = Ascended Sayian Goku
XB1.5 = Ascended Sayian Trunks

PS4 = SS Goku
XB1 = SS Vegeta

PC = Chibi Goku all the way to SSG Goku.

 

[ThirdEye]

There's no point to Sony if it won't sell like gangbusters. PS4 sells better than the inferior Xbox One, they know what sells. PS4K must show a serious sign of visual upgrade. iPhone 6s is 1.5x faster than iPhone 6 as a yearly upgrade, why not PS4K is 4x more powerful than PS4 (or 1.5 * 1.5 * 1.5 = 3.375x more powerful at least).

 

[Demanufacture]

I dont think consoles have lost their simplicity, anything but. I used to be a PC gamer but I now prefer the ease of use of consoles. With the PC I always felt that my hardware was going out of date pretty quickly. That high end GPU I bought a year ago for £400 is now superseded by a more powerful GPU and then I'll need a new PsU, more ram etc etc, then drivers drivers drivers, Windows crashes. Consoles dont give me that headache, I turn it on, I play a game, I turn it off.

Your PS4 you bought a couple of years ago is going to be out of date too, which is a problem for people with your mind set and I can totally see why you feel that way BTW. I personally never minded having a mid-tier PC. I upgrade my PC every 3-4 years which is probably close to how often a half gen system will come out..Consoles becoming PC's I tell you.

MSRP?

Because deals/ promos also exist on consoles that have been out a while / depending on season/ Holiday.

Edit: for example, my 2nd PS4 cost me essentially $209 last November ($299 with 3 games remastered and a $90 gift card)

Yea £250 is the normal price, no deals or anything. But promos/deals do exist on PC hardware too you know.

 

[wapplew]

There's no point to Sony if it won't sell like gangbusters. PS4 sells better than the inferior Xbox One, they know what sells. PS4K must show a serious sign of visual upgrade. iPhone 6s is 1.5x faster than iPhone 6 as a yearly upgrade, why not PS4K is 4x more powerful than PS4 (or 1.5 * 1.5 * 1.5 = 3.375x more powerful at least).

Arm growth not equal to x86 growth. We are talking about 40-45% more powerful at best.

 

[mckmas8808]

Btw: I think both MS saying it outright and this rumors for Sony are both controlled to see the reactions.

I think you are 1000% correct. And the reactions haven't been great.

 

[Dubz]

The PS4 cost me £349 at launch 2 and a half years ago, I'd say I've got my money's worth out of it. People upgrade their mobile phones every 2 years at a cost of £500-£600. Console gaming isn't that expensive.

I use my mobile phone all day long. I play my consoles about an hour a day. This comparison is not applicable to the majority of people.

 

[Hedrush]

I think you'll find that the majority of people that upgrade their phones every two years do so because they have a phone contract. The cost of the phone is subsidised by their monthly fee, so the wallet "hit" is substantially less than the overall cost of the phone. (Assuming their monthly fee stays at around the same rate.)

A one-off payment of £0-100 every two years for a new device is a much more approachable prospect than paying £300-400.

A phone contract in the UK is around about £40 a month, presuming your device is the latest model of phone. That works out at £960 over the 2 year contract. I buy a new phone every 2 years at a price of £500-£550 on pay as you go or sim free at a cost of £10 month. Add that onto my phone cost over the 2 years and I'm only £740-£790 which is significantly less than taking out a contract.

Upgrading to a new console every 3 years at a cost of say £500 max is pretty cheap in comparison.

 

[Dubz]

I think people will be surprised about how much this new PS4 is an improvement over the last, but not in the way you think. It's not going to be a huge leap. Think closer to N3DS vs 3DS. It's basically a more amped up Slim edition.

And you know this how?

 

[injurai]

Why are you talking about abstractions? They don't matter in this context.

I'm talking about how optimizations for one system will by and large be relevant to the other system.

 

[OléGunner]

It can be an issue if the architecture bottlenecks change drastically. With a minor update it's probably a non-issue, but when we get that large performance jump, it's bound to create problems when it comes to optimisation on two different specs despite the software compatibility. There's no way around it. You can't design a game to perfectly utilise both hardware specs. You can get good results for sure, but ultimately the design must consider the weaker console. Largely this is already the case for multiplats, so it's an issue for exclusives.

I don't see this as a big deal overall, just something to keep in mind. I think the positives far over-weigh the negatives. The only case I see this being a problem is some arbitrary forced 3-year update scenario I don't see happening. Sony and MS will update their consoles when it makes sense based on realities of hardware design, and in the console space it means longer update intervals than tablets/smartphones.

With all that you said, I just fear for the late gen ports on the old systems. I can see those games chugging really freakin bad haha.

And yeah 3-4 year upgrades is the best way to not let early adopters feel burned, the smartphone cycle is not compatible with console hardware.

That Uncharted 4 PS4 looks less attractive by the minute.

We are only playing the inferior version of UC4 in May

 

[Hellgardia]

The PS4 cost me £349 at launch 2 and a half years ago, I'd say I've got my money's worth out of it. People upgrade their mobile phones every 2 years at a cost of £500-£600. Console gaming isn't that expensive.

The PS4 is not something that is used as frequently as a mobile phone at least for some people.
Even if it is, not everyone changes phones every 2 years and not everyone spends £500-600 on them.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Why more work?
The architecture is the same. If the game detects the PS4k, turn on more effects and set the fps from 30 to locked 60. Problem solved.
The assets are mostly already made due to a PC version. Its a win win situation for gamers and sony.

And why are people talking about "splitting"? You will be able to play against or with PS4k users. Thats sure. PC gamers are doing exactly this from the beginning. No one is complaining playing against 980ti users because they have more fps.

Playstation will become a plattform. And the console will just be the device to access it. If you pay more, you will have a better experience but you wont be locked out because you havent paid enough. It´s up to you if you want to pay for this experience. But i am damn sure there are many people out there who are willing to spend some extra $$$. I am.

Because they will have to program games to take advantage of the extra hardware enhancements and also make sure the games are compatible with both old and new PS4 consoles, now I'm not saying it will always be a massive job (depending on game size) but it's still extra things for developers to do.

 

[Elandyll]

Your PS4 you bought a couple of years ago is going to be out of date too, which is a problem for people with your mind set and I can totally see why you feel that way BTW. I personally never minded having a mid-tier PC. I upgrade my PC every 3-4 years which is probably close to how often a half gen system will come out..Consoles becoming PC's I tell you.



Yea £250 is the normal price, no deals or anything. But promos/deals do exist on PC hardware too you know.

Oh I know (having a decent PC myself), and visibly PC Master race gamers do too as they keep comparing rigs built with discounted/ promo parts to consoles at MSRP price.

I don't see how my PS4 will be rendered obsolete by the PS4k though...

 

[SmokedMeat]

Well with this new upgrade I don't see console gaming being much cheaper than PC gaming now and without the benefits PC brings..Consoles kind of lost their simplicity no?

Consoles are gaining a huge "PC" benefit with forward and backward compatible games no?

Given the constant complaining of no bc and weak hardware, this is a move that shuts down those complaints.

So the new complaint is "consoles are losing their simplicity", which is funny considering I'm often reading how they've already lost that because of installs and updates.

 

[texhnolyze]

I think people will be surprised about how much this new PS4 is an improvement over the last, but not in the way you think. It's not going to be a huge leap. Think closer to N3DS vs 3DS. It's basically a more amped up Slim edition.

And you know this how?

I do agree with Lucifon.
How much of a leap did we get from last gen to current gen? 720p to 1080p, still running most games at 30fps (not even locked) after 8 years. Why should we expect a huge leap all of a sudden right now?

 

[DryvBy]

The PS4 cost me £349 at launch 2 and a half years ago, I'd say I've got my money's worth out of it. People upgrade their mobile phones every 2 years at a cost of £500-£600. Console gaming isn't that expensive.

I keep seeing this and who is actually paying full price for a phone? I haven't yet paid for a phone without it being on a plan. Since about 2002, I've had a total of 4 phones. I don't even know anyone that does that.

 

[Riesenfass]

I'm interested in seeing what the specifics are before I decide how I feel about this.

I will say that if they are modelling after smart phones they are misjudging the market. Smart phones go with you everywhere and do a ton of things a game console won't, so people are more willing to drop that money every 2 years or so. For new owners and arguably enthusiasts they will have the market, but existing owners I'm not so sure.

 

[Hedrush]

I use my mobile phone all day long. I play my consoles about an hour a day. This comparison is not applicable to the majority of people.

I also use my phone all day long. I play my PS4 for around 4 hours a day. What are we comparing? We're talking about prices are we not? The amount of time you use the device is irrelevant.

I keep seeing this and who is actually paying full price for a phone? I haven't yet paid for a phone without it being on a plan. Since about 2002, I've had a total of 4 phones. I don't even know anyone that does that.

Shock horror, some people like a sim free phone, not locked to a single provider and are quite happy to buy the device outright at a cheaper overall cost compared to a contract.

 

[mckmas8808]

There's no point to Sony if it won't sell like gangbusters. PS4 sells better than the inferior Xbox One, they know what sells. PS4K must show a serious sign of visual upgrade. iPhone 6s is 1.5x faster than iPhone 6 as a yearly upgrade, why not PS4K is 4x more powerful than PS4 (or 1.5 * 1.5 * 1.5 = 3.375x more powerful at least).

Does anybody know how much you can buy an iphone 5 for right now?

 

[RayearthRob]

How long until people start saying that normal ps4 games look like this:

 

[HandsomeCharles]

A phone contract in the UK is around about £40 a month, presuming your device is the latest model of phone. That works out at £960 over the 2 year contract. I buy a new phone every 2 years at a price of £500-£550 on pay as you go or sim free at a cost of £10 month. Add that onto my phone cost over the 2 years and I'm only £740-£790 which is significantly less than taking out a contract.

Upgrading to a new console every 3 years at a cost of say £500 max is pretty cheap in comparison.

You're in the minority. Believe me, as I worked in a phone shop for several years and the vast majority of customers would not buy an un-subsidised phone. Yes, it works out cheaper over the course of two years to do that, but a lot of people can not afford to spend £500 in a single lump.

Drawing parallels between the two isn't really all that viable, unless the consoles themselves can be offered on contracts.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

I think you are 1000% correct. And the reactions haven't been great.

Well, reactions are mixed but not necessarily negative. Quite sure MS, Nintendo and Sony (yes, all three are participating in this game!) performed some market research to determine how all of this might turn out for them.

 

[Skinpop]

I also use my phone all day long. I play my PS4 for around 4 hours a day. What are we comparing? We're talking about prices are we not? The amount of time you use the device is irrelevan.

how about this: 99% of the apps and stuff people use on their iphones or android devices are not performance critical. so it matters little if the the apps run on a software platform that is slow and crappy. console games are all about optimizations, performance and pushing the boundaries. Two completely different mindsets when writing and developing software, with completely different platform and hardware needs. The comparison is stupid. Consoles are nothing like the lifestyle products that smartphones are.

 

[DryvBy]

Shock horror, some people like a sim free phone, not locked to a single provider and are quite happy to buy the device outright at a cheaper overall cost compared to a contract.

Ok, and how many people are doing that? I can't name a single person that isn't doing a contract/phone. If that wasn't an option, these same people wouldn't be upgrading their phones until they broke.

This cell phone example is a poor argument to say people will or want to update every 2 years.

 

[Hedrush]

You're in the minority. Believe me, as I worked in a phone shop for several years and the vast majority of customers would not buy an un-subsidised phone. Yes, it works out cheaper over the course of two years to do that, but a lot of people can not afford to spend £500 in a single lump.

Drawing parallels between the two isn't really all that viable, unless the consoles themselves can be offered on contracts.

I understand their are a lot more people who take out a contract but some people like myself are quite happy to just buy their devices and not be locked into stupid long ass over priced contracts. After 2 years I can sell my factory unlocked device for alot more than someone who's phone is locked to a single network. iPhones hold their value pretty well and I can easily get £250-300 for my 2 year old phone and I then use that money towards buying my new device. I've tried telling my daughter this but she is quite happy on her contract, it's each to their own.

Ok, and how many people are doing that? I can't name a single person that isn't doing a contract/phone. If that wasn't an option, these same people wouldn't be upgrading their phones until they broke.

This cell phone example is a poor argument to say people will or want to update every 2 years.

Me and my wife, that's 2 you know now

 

[SmokedMeat]

I wonder what the feelings would be towards the PS4K if it simply becomes the new $399 model, and the regular PS4 drops to $299?

I think that would be a fair way of doing things. I don't expect the new system to break that $399 price point.

 

[Carn82]

unless the consoles themselves can be offered on contracts.

I'm sure this already has been posted, but I can see that happening. Not anytime soon, but a new box every two years that is backwords/forwards compatible (for a specific OS-'generation')? Heck, we're already paying for PS+.. Wouldnt surprise me that supporting a specific OS will become the 'platform', and not the hardware itself (just like Apple is doing with iOs).

 

[DryvBy]

Me and my wife, that's 2 you know now

I don't know you, you liar!

But seriously, I don't think that's a norm. Even close to norm.