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WWDC09 Thread of iPhones and Snow Leopards

Ashhong said:
hmm im reading about problems with these new MBP, from messed up screens to the harddrive SATA connection only being 1.5gb/s. Zaraki, can you look under your hardware information and see what SATA speed you have?

Apple -> About This Mac -> More Info -> Hardware -> SATA
Click to expand...


how fast should the SATA connection be? my old SR macbook pro is only 1.5 Gigabit .. was this speed increased in the later models, or is there an issue in mine?
 
Ashhong said:
sounds like you just got a very nice store. so basically theyre gonna let you return a macbook+ipod+printer and rebuy them on the same receipt? lucky. im expecting mine to come in the mail sometime this week.
Click to expand...

They already did it. They only returned the printer so that it would show up as a $0 item on the receipt but all the rebates are linked to that one receipt. Ya, I was told on the phone that I have 2 weeks or something to get a printer with discount was going to come back to get it but the guy who rang me up said he did what he did for me for another person earlier in the day since they were sold out, this way they didn't have to come back and it's shipped to your home. The guy was really cool and was the guy who answered all my questions a couple weeks ago so I asked him for help and buying it when I finally bought it.

Ashhong said:
hmm im reading about problems with these new MBP, from messed up screens to the harddrive SATA connection only being 1.5gb/s. Zaraki, can you look under your hardware information and see what SATA speed you have?

Apple -> About This Mac -> More Info -> Hardware -> SATA
Click to expand...

Sure thing, booting up now.

Edit: It says 1.5 Gigabit for speed. Is that bad?
 
Juice said:
Most modern MacBooks have 3gbps, this one is a Pro, so naturally they found an obscure way to gimp it.
Click to expand...

But seriously that makes so little sense to actually make the computer worse by giving it the higher level branding. That's so ass backwards.

Edit: Before I care too much what does this mean? Will I see any real world differences? If I do at what point would I notice?
 
Thinking about picking one of these up in the store at Lenox Mall today after trying it for awhile. Question though, is 2 gigs of ram good enough for now for the 13" MBP? I don't have a problem really with updating later but I'd prefer to wait awhile or just not at all if 2 gigs is fine. I don't plan to do anything too strenuous on it. For the record, I would be buying from newegg or something cause Apple does overprice their ram...

Now 160 or 250 HD...
 
Shanks said:
Thinking about picking one of these up in the store at Lenox Mall today after trying it for awhile. Question though, is 2 gigs of ram good enough for now for the 13" MBP? I don't have a problem really with updating later but I'd prefer to wait awhile or just not at all if 2 gigs is fine. I don't plan to do anything too strenuous on it. For the record, I would be buying from newegg or something cause Apple does overprice their ram...

Now 160 or 250 HD...
Click to expand...

I guess it depends on what you do... My new pro is pretty snappy with only 2GBs but I haven't exactly done anything high end. I'm going to upgrade soon since it's only about $60 IIRC at newegg for 4GB and then get rid of my 2x1GB sticks. If you look around people probably already have good benchmarks out about it.

Edit: If you don't mind changing ram I'd get a hdd from newegg too. I was going for the 250 but for like $10 more you got like 300GB and for $80 you got a 500GB hdd. These are what I remember off the top of my head so they might be off a little but for the price I'd rather get my own off of newegg and install it myself.
 
Are all the new pros 1.5gbps or just the 13"s? If it's all of them then that makes me feel a bit better about not having one..
 
pj325is said:
Are all the new pros 1.5gbps or just the 13"s? If it's all of them then that makes me feel a bit better about not having one..
Click to expand...

As far as I can tell it's only the 13" so far. Apparently a couple people have put in complaints to applecare so we might have answers as soon as monday hopefully.
 
I think I am going to 'upgrade' from a 15 inch non-unibody to a 13 inch unibody. I love the big screen and speakers but it's a pain to take in and out of my backpack., especially at airports.
 
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
But seriously that makes so little sense to actually make the computer worse by giving it the higher level branding. That's so ass backwards.

Edit: Before I care too much what does this mean? Will I see any real world differences? If I do at what point would I notice?
Click to expand...


I'd guess that you wouldn't see the difference unless you were playing something HDD-streaming intensive like a modern 3D game. With normal everyday use, Macs run so smoothly that it's difficult for me to tell when they have better specs or not.
 
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
But seriously that makes so little sense to actually make the computer worse by giving it the higher level branding. That's so ass backwards.

Edit: Before I care too much what does this mean? Will I see any real world differences? If I do at what point would I notice?
Click to expand...
You won't notice anything.
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
You won't notice anything.
Click to expand...

Ya, from what I understand it's mostly for solid state but I don't know if it effects all or not. That's not too bad but still stupid that they downgraded something for an update.
 
panda21 said:
can a 2.5" hdd even read at 3gbps? pretty sure they cant write that fast
Click to expand...

I don't think so, from what people were saying is that normal hdd can't take advantage of the full amount so the difference of any would be negligible but apparently solid state can. But I don't know if it's normal solid state or the fast but extremely expensive solid state.
 
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
But seriously that makes so little sense to actually make the computer worse by giving it the higher level branding. That's so ass backwards.

Edit: Before I care too much what does this mean? Will I see any real world differences? If I do at what point would I notice?
Click to expand...

been reading about this on macrumors a lot, and basically it wont make a difference unless you buy a top speed SSD drive. its still annoying though that Apple would just gimp it without warning. my sisters white macbook is 3.0 even.

also you should check out what screen you have. let me find directions for that...

edit" colorsync utlity--> display --> scroll to second from bottom and select to see last four of the digits
 
I just went by the Apple store in Lenox Mall in Atlanta and picked up my first Macbook. I went with the 13" MBP base cause I figured I would upgrade stuff for cheaper later on if I really needed to..

Got a 16 Gb iPod Touch too for like 70 bucks since they are doing that rebate right now!
 
Shanks said:
I just went by the Apple store in Lenox Mall in Atlanta and picked up my first Macbook. I went with the 13" MBP base cause I figured I would upgrade stuff for cheaper later on if I really needed to..

Got a 16 Gb iPod Touch too for like 70 bucks since they are doing that rebate right now!
Click to expand...

Did you get an instant rebate at the store or is it still mail-in?
 
woot, just ordered... $100 college discount + free ipod touch and printer (after rebates).

macbookproce8f1.png


Now does anyone know how the Snow Leopard $10 upgrade thing works? Didn't see anything about that in my confirmation email, I assume it's too early for specific details on that?
 
damn what city do you live in? my tax was a good 30 bucks higher =(

also do you plan on using that printer or selling it? it has one of the lowest resale values out of the 100$ printers at apple. i got the ip4600 i think it was. mines expected around the same time, im hoping wednesday.
 
Sean said:
woot, just ordered... $100 college discount + free ipod touch and printer (after rebates).

Now does anyone know how the Snow Leopard $10 upgrade thing works? Didn't see anything about that in my confirmation email, I assume it's too early for specific details on that?
Click to expand...
Doesn't start until the 16th. But there is a website you have to fill out once it goes live.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/uptodate/
 
My 13" MacBook Pro is supposed to come in tomorrow, but I'm kinda fearful it won't. It got stuck for customs friday, and when it was finally released it was too late for FedEx to bring it to another warehouse, meaning it's still in Mississauga, which is 11h away from me :/ Wait is killing me...



pj325is said:
thats really weird. How much money can they possibly be saving by doing that?
Click to expand...

Nothing, at all. The new MacBook Pros use the same chipset as the previous MacBooks, which happens to support SATA-II. The bus speed is limited for some reason through firmware; the hardware itself supports SATA-II so Apple isn't saving a single fucking penny.

In a way, that's good news: if it's unintentional and just a fuck up, Apple will be able to fix it through software updates. If it's intentional, it means Apple is full of shit, but then also means it may be still possible to unlock the full speed bus through hacked firmware or even a simple kext.

Also of note, Windows running on Boot Camp detects it as SATA-II but runs at the same gimped speeds.
 
on the other hand, maybe they thought no one would notice, since the change is effectively unnoticeable? :lol but I'm all for not letting companies get away with anything.
 
RevoDS said:
My 13" MacBook Pro is supposed to come in tomorrow, but I'm kinda fearful it won't. It got stuck for customs friday, and when it was finally released it was too late for FedEx to bring it to another warehouse, meaning it's still in Mississauga, which is 11h away from me :/ Wait is killing me..
Click to expand...

my friend told me the way Apple ships it, FedEx doesnt deliver on Mondays? could be wrong though.

Mamesj said:
on the other hand, maybe they thought no one would notice, since the change is effectively unnoticeable? :lol but I'm all for not letting companies get away with anything.
Click to expand...

its apparently very noticeable to users with certain SSD drives. in macrumors theres a lot of ppl who noticed a slowdown after installing it.
 
Do actual speeds of internal SATA hard drives even meet SATA-I standards at all? I know nothing other than SSDs have even a chance of hitting SATA-II rated speeds, if I am not mistaken.
 
Ashhong said:
my friend told me the way Apple ships it, FedEx doesnt deliver on Mondays? could be wrong though.
Click to expand...

Hmm, I've never had anything shipped by FedEx in the past so I can't tell either, but...

1o84k2.png


Do actual speeds of internal SATA hard drives even meet SATA-I standards at all? I know nothing other than SSDs have even a chance of hitting SATA-II rated speeds, if I am not mistaken.
Click to expand...

No, but the hard drive can be changed by the user, and some people threw OCZ Vertexes in there :P

It's not a concern for most people currently, but it definitely will 2 years or so from now once SSD prices drop.
 
Ashhong said:
damn what city do you live in? my tax was a good 30 bucks higher =(

also do you plan on using that printer or selling it? it has one of the lowest resale values out of the 100$ printers at apple. i got the ip4600 i think it was. mines expected around the same time, im hoping wednesday.
Click to expand...

I live in New Jersey.

Didn't really need a printer but I figured why not, with a $100 rebate it would be free and I could just give it to my sister or something. I didn't really look through all the printer choices, perhaps I should have.
 
Ashhong said:
been reading about this on macrumors a lot, and basically it wont make a difference unless you buy a top speed SSD drive. its still annoying though that Apple would just gimp it without warning. my sisters white macbook is 3.0 even.

also you should check out what screen you have. let me find directions for that...

edit" colorsync utlity--> display --> scroll to second from bottom and select to see last four of the digits
Click to expand...

I had to do a little different than what you said but if I'm doing it right the id for my display is 04272780. I don't know what that comes out to but like I said it looks a lot better than the old macbooks and looks as good if not better than the old pros.
 
Ashhong said:
hm wasnt the numbers i was looking for. take a gander here

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=717479
Click to expand...

I'm not sure... When I open color sync utility the choices up top are profile first aid, profiles, devices, filters, calculator. To get what I had before I chose devices, then displays, clicked on color lcd and that was the id number. I don't see what you were mentioning or anything that's long enough where I would have to scroll.
 
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
I'm not sure... When I open color sync utility the choices up top are profile first aid, profiles, devices, filters, calculator. To get what I had before I chose devices, then displays, clicked on color lcd and that was the id number. I don't see what you were mentioning or anything that's long enough where I would have to scroll.
Click to expand...

try opening the displays menu -> Color -> click a profile -> open profile -> scroll down to 13 'mmod' -> model number
 
GoldenEye 007 said:
Do actual speeds of internal SATA hard drives even meet SATA-I standards at all? I know nothing other than SSDs have even a chance of hitting SATA-II rated speeds, if I am not mistaken.
Click to expand...

I saw some benchmarks on macrumors where an intel x25 had its speed almost cut in half in some tests. Granted, those speeds are still better than most if not all conventional drives, but it still neuters solid state's main advantage.
 
pj325is said:
I saw some benchmarks on macrumors where an intel x25 had its speed almost cut in half in some tests. Granted, those speeds are still better than most if not all conventional drives, but it still neuters solid state's main advantage.
Click to expand...

Only in synthetic, sequential read/write benchmarks and large file copying. Under normal use the requests are random, and in random read/write situations current SSDs are still unable to hit SATA I's limit; so really, it's mostly bragging rights and in heavy file copy to another SSD or within the same drive (since USB/FireWire/traditional HDDs/Gigabyte LAN/Wi-Fi would be unable to follow and would slow down the copy process anyway). Beyond file copy, there really is no difference (yet? I'm guessing SSD technology will improve enough for this statement to be false a few years from now. But as of today, it's true)

That's not to say that I defend Apple though, the limit is ridiculously dumb that's for sure. Just that the impacts on real use are few and far between.
 
Re the SATA speeds: I'd be interested in seeing what the cause of this is. Did Apple want to save a few pennies? Is it a software thing? Was it voluntary? Can be be fixed by a firmware update? I guess we will find out soon enough, as alot of forums are making noise about it.

If you have a HDD, its a moot point. You won't get anywhere near SATA I speeds anyway. However- the fastest SSDs (ie. intel x25m, OCZ Vertex) can theoretically come close to saturating SATA II (3.0Gbps). Therefore, they may, in some situation, be crippled by the 1.5Gbps max. So, this can be an issue if you plan to throw in a fast SSD now or sometime in the future. Considering the speed at which SSDs are dropping in price, increasing in performance, and becoming more common, SATA I could be an issue in future-proofing these machines and may become a bottleneck for some. Which is ridiculous, as SATAII has become the standard and is in notebooks several years old.

My 2008 Macbook has the 3.0Gpbs SATA II, so I'm at a complete loss as to why they would downgrade this- even if it will not affect the majority of users. SATA I is ancient. For God's sakes, some motherboards now support SATAIII (6Gbps). I guess these new machines were too goo to be true- they had to randomly gimp something.
 
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
Ah, that did it. 00009C9E That's the model number it gives.
Click to expand...

any issues? others report

9C9E (Samsung) - Some reporting a washed out screen and some 'streak' issues on right side. Jury is still out on this one.

and regarding the SATA thing, apparently its the same chipset as the 3.0, so its some kind of firmware limitation. hopefully it was a mistake and they fix it.
 
capslock said:
I think I am going to 'upgrade' from a 15 inch non-unibody to a 13 inch unibody. I love the big screen and speakers but it's a pain to take in and out of my backpack., especially at airports.
Click to expand...
Same idea here. See that Anandtech battery review? Mine is in the last category for all the comparisons :( I'm always surprised at how well the used prices hold up; if I can get $1,000 I'll make the deal and switch. If you go ahead and have any tips to share please do so.
 
Ashhong said:
its apparently very noticeable to users with certain SSD drives. in macrumors theres a lot of ppl who noticed a slowdown after installing it.
Click to expand...


ah, now I see the problem. I thought this was something on the drive itself.
 
Ashhong said:
any issues? others report

9C9E (Samsung) - Some reporting a washed out screen and some 'streak' issues on right side. Jury is still out on this one.

and regarding the SATA thing, apparently its the same chipset as the 3.0, so its some kind of firmware limitation. hopefully it was a mistake and they fix it.
Click to expand...

I haven't noticed any issues. If it's washed out it's not enough for me to notice/care. The old macbooks were blatantly bad and this one isn't at all. I watched a couple movies with a friend last night and I thought it looked really good.
 
RevoDS said:
Only in synthetic, sequential read/write benchmarks and large file copying. Under normal use the requests are random, and in random read/write situations current SSDs are still unable to hit SATA I's limit; so really, it's mostly bragging rights and in heavy file copy to another SSD or within the same drive (since USB/FireWire/traditional HDDs/Gigabyte LAN/Wi-Fi would be unable to follow and would slow down the copy process anyway). Beyond file copy, there really is no difference (yet? I'm guessing SSD technology will improve enough for this statement to be false a few years from now. But as of today, it's true)

That's not to say that I defend Apple though, the limit is ridiculously dumb that's for sure. Just that the impacts on real use are few and far between.
Click to expand...

There's also a 35% reduction in random read speeds

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=7807327&postcount=623

This could only be justified if SATA I uses significantly less power
 
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