• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.

Opinion Business Platform Xbox CFO Talks Bethesda Exclusivity; “We Want Bethesda Content to be First or Better or Best on Xbox Platforms”

Humdinger

Member
Apr 21, 2010
4,120
2,806
650
Well, that's encouraging. I'd rather not have to purchase an Xbox just to play a few games. I can wait a year to play them.

I always assumed these would be full exclusives. But I guess it does make sense, to make them just timed exclusives. That way, they can recoup some of that 7.5 billion dollars invested. It's hard to do that, if you are basically giving the games away for free on your own platform and not selling them to the majority of the gaming market.
 

FrankWza

Member
Feb 14, 2013
3,217
2,105
645
Its a fucking huge amount of money by any standards.

wait, you didn’t know that Msoft doesn’t care about money and 7.5 billion is nothing to them because they sit on a ton of cash and they just did this for fun? Also, they are taking a loss on Series x and s. They’re actually using parts not even on the market yet and are going to reveal it after they lose every single face off for multiplat games and they’re spotting PS a 50 or75 million console lead too. Also, they decided to release Deathloop and Ghostwire exclusivity for a year as a favor to PS just to keep them relevant. Nice guys over ther!
 

ChuckeRearmed

Member
Jan 31, 2018
1,865
1,534
385
BTW... As both a TES fan and Switch fan... I really hope the switch is incapable of running TES6.
Maybe it can get ported to the switch 2 pro (two gens from now) for a portable replay...
I highly believe in scenario akin Control - using cloud

We love our bare breasted wenches
PC is the platform of free

wait, you didn’t know that Msoft doesn’t care about money and 7.5 billion is nothing to them because they sit on a ton of cash and they just did this for fun? Also, they are taking a loss on Series x and s. They’re actually using parts not even on the market yet and are going to reveal it after they lose every single face off for multiplat games and they’re spotting PS a 50 or75 million console lead too. Also, they decided to release Deathloop and Ghostwire exclusivity for a year as a favor to PS just to keep them relevant. Nice guys over ther!
What are you smoking?
 
Last edited:

ChuckeRearmed

Member
Jan 31, 2018
1,865
1,534
385
It's hard to do that, if you are basically giving the games away for free on your own platform and not selling them to the majority of the gaming market.
Where is that narrative of free comes from? 10$ per month is 120$ per year from a single person - basically, slightly less than a single person pays for gaming on consoles in general (per year or not, not sure). 1 800 000 000 $ is a yearly revenue from the current amount of subscribers on gamepass. And I took only 10$ game pass. There are also additional sales of games on Xbox and PCs. In a long run it is profitable without releasing games on PS - because even if other expenses -> even if half revenue of the cost goes to third parties (like indies, EA etc.) or whatever they earn on it. When the toolset will be finalized across the developers it will be even cheaper to develop. Games are profitable over a longer time than movies, because certain games - like Skyrim - are bought even today.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Bonfires Down

EDMIX

Gold Member
Apr 5, 2018
4,759
3,657
525
32
South Florida aka Outer Haven
Why everybody brings Minecraft? Don't you see what Minecraft is? It is a media franchise, to the point where it might have its own movie.
I don't doubt that Bethesda's games will come to PC. But they won't come to Sony's console.

Why everybody gets triggered when Minecraft is used as an example? Don't you see what Elder Scrolls and Fallout are? So you could doubt this same shit about Minecraft, yet its on many platforms.

So the notion that spending 3 billion means they will have it on many systems cause its a big "media franchise" but hey guys spending 3x MORE FUCKING MONEY means less systems, simply doesn't fucking make sense. Its trying to say Minecraft is sooooooo big, it needs to be on many systems (makes sense)

Proceeds to fucking ignore they just spent MORE MONEY on this deal....suddenly crickets.....

to the point where it might have its own movie.

Ikr to the point where its CONFIRMED TO HAVE A SHOW

.

But "generous" MS will bring it

Cause that is what they do bud, that doesn't have shit to do with Sony or Nintendo. They don't fucking spend billions and then proceed to do this. DAY AND DATE


So what are we suppose to assume?

Why would they help PS to sell more consoles?

Thats a good fucking question for them right now bud, yet that didn't stop this....



So MS might not really gaf. Their goal is to sell software, as to why they are doing that with Minecraft

As to why they are saying shit like "first or better or best on XB platforms" etc


If its a big IP, very expensive to make or was spent lots of money on, I believe its fair to assume MICROSOFT might do this as this is what MICROSOFT HAS DONE BEFORE, like....as of THIS YEAR 2020, they did this. Saying "oh but Sony" or "oh but Nintendo" is irrelevant.


How many billions have Sony or Nintendo spent on any IP to then have it come to several rival platforms in 2020?

I'd like to reminds that when they bought Minecraft they immediately said that it will be available everywhere. Not the case with Bethesda

Yea, they just said "first or better or best on XBOX platforms". I don't see "only" there bud....

The same fact that people want MS to release them on PS just not to purchase Xbox or GamePass

??? I buy and play majority of their series on PC, my comments are based on factually what MS is doing literally right now in 2020. So little to do with what many want and more to do with factually what MS has done already with such billion dollar purchases.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: Wizz-Art

ChuckeRearmed

Member
Jan 31, 2018
1,865
1,534
385
Why everybody gets triggered when Minecraft is used as an example? Don't you see what Elder Scrolls and Fallout are?
And what are they? I heard Minecraft even used in schools for education. Minecraft is a platform where they bring various stuff like Star Wars, Jurassic park, etc.

Thats a good fucking question for them right now bud, yet that didn't stop this....
Again, that's Minecraft. Just like Fortnite it is everywhere and will be released everywhere because it sells among the young / younger generation

TES is smaller than GTA in fact. Fallout is even smaller than TES due to Bethesda's mishandling of the franchise after FO3. It is not even a system seller anymore. For the modern generation, TES is not even a system seller - for the folks around 27+ it might be, but that's it. Fallout is probably on the level of Halo these days thanks to Halo's mishandling.

So the notion that spending 3 billion means they will have it on many systems cause its a big "media franchise" but hey guys spending 3x MORE FUCKING MONEY means less systems, simply doesn't fucking make sense. Its trying to say Minecraft is sooooooo big, it needs to be on many systems (makes sense)
Why do people count MS's money? With sony's 7.5 bil earnings over the whole PS4 generation or something they spent millions on money hatting - games would come to their consoles anyway - while MS generates such sums probably each year with a stash of 20x times more than the whole sony's profit on PS4.
 
Last edited:
  • LOL
  • Like
Reactions: kuncol02 and EDMIX

EDMIX

Gold Member
Apr 5, 2018
4,759
3,657
525
32
South Florida aka Outer Haven
And what are they? I heard Minecraft even used in schools. TES is smaller than GTA in fact. Fallout is even smaller than TES due to Bethesda's mishandling of the franchise after FO3. It is not even a system seller anymore.

Yet they spent almost 8 billion dollars to get it..... I'd argue being SMALLER then GTA and costing them almost 8 billion literally is an argument why they have no actually benefit then putting it on less install bases.....

So all this argues is they spent more and NEED to continue to have it on many platforms to get the IP to those "GTA" levels. So correcting Bethesda's "mishandling" to get it to even move such numbers still means it needs to be on a large amount of systems.....like Minecraft.

"Why do people count MS's money? With sony's 7.5 bil earnings"

Why do you keep bring up other companies? Sorry but Sony nor Nintendo are spending billions on IPs to bring them to other platforms.

Its why MS is relevant in this concept, they are the ones that do this. So you could keep arguing about how XYZ company didn't do this or that, but thats useless, its irrelevant, it holds zero point to the thread bud, the tread is not about Nintendo or Sony or EA or Activision or Ubisoft etc, its about what MS has done in the past and what they might do in the future.

Sooooo its massively hard to argue this when MS has literally done this before and Sony and Nintendo have not as they have no real obvious plans to be 3rd parties or something. Its an even harder argument when you say they spent more and the IP isn't as big as GTA...... oh so you think they spent more money to then make less money, on less units?

Do tell....
 
Last edited:
  • LOL
Reactions: Wizz-Art

ChuckeRearmed

Member
Jan 31, 2018
1,865
1,534
385
first or better or best on XBOX platforms
The problem with ZeniMax purchase is that they have timed exclusives for Sony, multiplatform games like ESO, and Fallout 76. They can't even talk about that because if they say they will pull out -> people will think that ESO or FO76 will leave, if they say that they keep - people will think that Starfield and others come to PS5 and will buy more PS5. Hell, they even have time exclusives for PS5 and if they tell that the games won't game to PS5 people will think that Deathloop and Ghostwire won't come either which might lead to some clause violations in a deal between Bethesda and Sony. I bet Zenimax probably earns something from the current releases and each statements might affect sales. It is a very complex situation.

Until the deal finalized they will give ambiguous statements and other stuff. All will be revealed during Starfield release.
 
Last edited:
  • Praise the Sun
Reactions: Wizz-Art

EDMIX

Gold Member
Apr 5, 2018
4,759
3,657
525
32
South Florida aka Outer Haven
The problem with ZeniMax purchase is that they have timed exclusives for Sony, multiplatform games like ESO, and Fallout 76. They can't even talk about that because if they say they will pull out -> people will think that ESO or FO76 will leave, if they say that they keep - people will think that Starfield and others come to PS5 and will buy more PS5. Hell, they even have time exclusives for PS5 and if they tell that the games won't game to PS5 people will think that Deathloop and Ghostwire won't come either which might lead to some clause violations in a deal between Bethesda and Sony.

Until the deal finalized they will give ambiguous statements and other stuff. All will be revealed during Starfield release.

I don't think it really matters tbh. All we have is speculation and what they've done in the past.

So sure they have deals already in place like we've seen before.

We've also seen them buy IPs and continue to make brand new games in those series on many platforms.

Its logically and rational to assume they'd do the same with Fallout, TES etc. So all we have is what they've done with Minecraft because we don't see much big billion deals in gaming by first parties, all we can go off of is the last time MS did this. So that shit didn't stop with the first Minecraft, sounds a bit silly to assume it would stop after Deathloop or something.

With the amount spent being substantially more on a IP you even fucking admit to be SMALLER then other IPs, it makes no sense to then make it sound like the reasonable thing that MS would do is limit the systems to the very IP that are um..."smaller than GTA". At almost 8 billion and being "smaller then GTA" from "mishandled" IP, it makes more sense for MS to continue with how they treated Minecraft. So telling me how small the series is only argues that MS want to correct the IP and get it to those heights in the first place. Not LIMIT its systems.
 

ChuckeRearmed

Member
Jan 31, 2018
1,865
1,534
385
Why do you keep bring up other companies? Sorry but Sony nor Nintendo are spending billions on IPs to bring them to other platforms.
How much money do you thnk Sony - Nintendo does not need too, it is its own world - spent on money hatting during the last generation? How much did they spend on Spider-man's exclusivity? And how much did they spend right now on all that money hatting? And the generation has just started.

With the amount spent being substantially more on a IP you even fucking admit to be SMALLER then other IPs, it makes no sense to then make it sound like the reasonable thing that MS would do is limit the systems to the very IP that are um..."smaller than GTA". At almost 8 billion and being "smaller then GTA" from "mishandled" IP, it makes more sense for MS to continue with how they treated Minecraft. So telling me how small the series is only argues that MS want to correct the IP and get it to those heights in the first place. Not LIMIT its systems.
It is reasonable not to release those games on PS. Releasing game on PS comes with not creasing market share of Xbox \ GamePass, not bringing those who want to play Bethesda's games (I bought Xbox 360 for GTA5 for example) to Xbox | GamePass, spending money on porting, and also giving a share to PS5. Not worth it.

7.5 billion they paid for several studios (10? not sure) - Codemasters were sold for almost 1 billion recently because T2(?) could afford it. They also bought brands and some technologies (including engines). It is worth it.
 
Last edited:
  • LOL
Reactions: EDMIX

EDMIX

Gold Member
Apr 5, 2018
4,759
3,657
525
32
South Florida aka Outer Haven
How much money do you thnk Sony - Nintendo does not need

Irrelevant. I'm not responding to post continuing to derail and go off topic to talk about other publishers.

You need to deal with that this is what MS is doing and the direction they are headed in. If they didn't desire to spend 3 billion to keep an IP on 1 platform, I'm not sure why they'd do it with 8 billion. Bringing up Sony and Nintendo 100x isn't going to change that.
 

ChuckeRearmed

Member
Jan 31, 2018
1,865
1,534
385
Irrelevant. I'm not responding to post continuing to derail and go off topic to talk about other publishers.
I am not derailing I am explaining why not releasing on PS5 makes sense, while you constantly bring Minecraft as the example of why they will release TES on all other platforms. They should release Halo on PS because they wasted a lot of money on that and they under-delivered.

I bring examples regarding why people should not use 7.5 as the argument why MS will release games on PS5. Price they paid is big, but it is not that big to bring anything to PS5. Disney+ removed its own movies from Netflix for example. But Netflix has a lot of subscribers!
 
Last edited:
  • LOL
Reactions: EDMIX

EDMIX

Gold Member
Apr 5, 2018
4,759
3,657
525
32
South Florida aka Outer Haven
I am not derailing I am explaining why not releasing on PS5 makes sense

Thats nice but MS isn't listen to you with Minecraft with that advice, not sure they will listen on some series that are not only smaller, more expensive to make and more expensive to buy. So Minecraft is referenced because clearly that is the only other time we've seen them spend billions to buy some gaming publisher or IP and clearly the only time we've seen them continue to put titles out on other systems. They didn't spend 8 billion on Halo either so......

You are just mad that Minecraft exist as a reference as it makes your argument a massive uphill battle.

So you could keep arguing with MS that putting games on Nintendo and PS and IOS etc doesn't "make sense", it won't stop MS from doing it. So MS isn't listening to you on this one bud. Have a good one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Coulomb_Barrier

Warablo

Member
May 15, 2013
2,457
477
615
It blows my mind people think Microsoft just spent 7.5 billion to try and make back 7.5 billion the exact same way Zenimax would try if they were independent. If that was the case, they wouldn't have spent 7.5 billion.

The Minecraft example is bullshit because it was already on every platform except the Switch/Wii U (mid development) when it was purchased.
 
Last edited:

Soodanim

Member
Feb 24, 2012
6,521
1,781
915
PC: What’s the chance of TES6 being affected at all? Bethesda launcher forced? Standard Steam purchase as per usual? Mods *have* to be in, I know there’s no danger there.

Obviously no one can speak in certain terms, but I’m curious
 
  • Like
Reactions: EDMIX

ChuckeRearmed

Member
Jan 31, 2018
1,865
1,534
385
Thats nice but MS isn't listen to you with Minecraft with that advice, not sure they will listen on some series that are not only smaller, more expensive to make and more expensive to buy. So Minecraft is referenced because clearly that is the only other time we've seen them spend billions to buy some gaming publisher or IP and clearly the only time we've seen them continue to put titles out on other systems. They didn't spend 8 billion on Halo either so......

You are just mad that Minecraft exist as a reference as it makes your argument a massive uphill battle.

So you could keep arguing with MS that putting games on Nintendo and PS and IOS etc doesn't "make sense", it won't stop MS from doing it. So MS isn't listening to you on this one bud. Have a good one.
Minecraft was already on other platforms - just like MS won't remove Skyrim from Playstation, Minecraft won't be removed either. Just like with the purchase MS won't break existing Sony's contracts.

You are just mad that Minecraft exist as a reference as it makes your argument a massive uphill battle.
It doesn't - it is not the uphill - I am just annoyed because Minecraft proves nothing as it is a completely different case. By being everywhere it generates more profit than as an exclusive game. It is a very specific genre, that brings money by being everywhere to popularize the merchandise and other stuff. But people always bring it as it proves something.

We should agree to disagree. Just like in Highlander - there can be only one. When E3 comes - or wherever there will be a reveal - we will see who's right and who's wrong.

PC: What’s the chance of TES6 being affected at all? Bethesda launcher forced? Standard Steam purchase as per usual? Mods *have* to be in, I know there’s no danger there.

Obviously no one can speak in certain terms, but I’m curious
Games will come to PC. Bethesda's launcher will die. Steam will be available and I think MS will buy Steam sooner or later.
 
Last edited:

EDMIX

Gold Member
Apr 5, 2018
4,759
3,657
525
32
South Florida aka Outer Haven
The Minecraft example is bullshit because it was already on every platform except the Switch/Wii U (mid development) when it was purchased.

Not really, the example being used are the new games that continued to release on many platforms.....as in...in 2020 they made a new Minecraft title that came to many platforms. So this isn't talking about solely the first game (i'm not even sure why many keep making it seem as if that suddenly answers the other titles continuing to release on many systems)


PC: What’s the chance of TES6 being affected at all? Bethesda launcher forced? Standard Steam purchase as per usual? Mods *have* to be in, I know there’s no danger there.

Obviously no one can speak in certain terms, but I’m curious

This.

I want to know if much is going to be changed based on this on PC. I know MS is putting their stuff all on PC, so I'm not too worried, but I do wonder if the launcher for stuff like mods will be changed, but from what they are talking about with allowing Bethesda to self publish, I'm not too worried.
 

Humdinger

Member
Apr 21, 2010
4,120
2,806
650
Where is that narrative of free comes from? 10$ per month is 120$ per year from a single person - basically, slightly less than a single person pays for gaming on consoles in general (per year or not, not sure).

Ok, not free, but cheap. There are constant deals on GP, so no one has to pay full price. And the total revenue needs to be considered in terms of operating costs, development costs, and all the dough spent buying these companies -- not to mention all the games on GP that the revenue has to cover; it's not just Skyrim or whatever, it's the hundreds of other games as well. In the end, the actual amount being brought in, per game, can't be all that much. You can't even quantify how much one particular game nets, really.

My main point, though, is that whatever the actual sum, it's a small fraction of what they'd get by selling those games at full price to the majority of the gaming market (i.e., everyone on PC, PS5, and Switch). That's a LOT of money to leave on the table. It dramatically reduces the value of your investment, if you forgo all of that.
 

ChuckeRearmed

Member
Jan 31, 2018
1,865
1,534
385
Ok, not free, but cheap. There are constant deals on GP, so no one has to pay full price. And the total revenue needs to be considered in terms of operating costs, development costs, and all the dough spent buying these companies -- not to mention all the games on GP that the revenue has to cover; it's not just Skyrim or whatever, it's the hundreds of other games as well. In the end, the actual amount being brought in, per game, can't be all that much. You can't even quantify how much one particular game nets, really.

My main point, though, is that whatever the actual sum, it's a small fraction of what they'd get by selling those games at full price to the majority of the gaming market (i.e., everyone on PC, PS5, and Switch). That's a LOT of money to leave on the table. It dramatically reduces the value of your investment, if you forgo all of that.
You should not forget that people also buy games whether it is from Windows Store and Steam - it will release the games on Steam. Also, MS has smaller operating costs because it owns Azure - so unlike for example Disney or Netflix - they don't need to pay the third party to rent the infrastructure as they basically pay only for electricity and hardware supply. They also sell console hardware themselves. Hosting GamePass is cheaper for MS than any other platform holder - aside from probably Google and Amazon - because it owns the infrastructure (like Amazon pays MS for Windows that runs Luna service).

An additional benefit of running everything on Azure is that it makes other games - like PUBG - to migrate to Azure because MS gains experience and has a working stack regarding game infrastructure. Like Amazon is popular among streaming services because it has things like Netflix running their service on AWS - so other streaming services know that Amazon knows how to run such infrastructure and have a stack for that.

All in all, MS doesn't need Sony to get the profit. As I mentioned before - as of now pure revenue from GamePass even in the worst-case scenario (nobody uses Ultimate) is 1 200 000 000 per year. It is pure gamepass revenue without anything else included. I believe after all the expenses the pure profit should be at least around 50kk - 150kkk per year. It is a small sum for the juggernaut like MS, but it is not the loss. And it's only GamePass - we don't know the profit MS gets by allowing to put the games on GamePass (it is not the one-way road for EA for example - I bet they pay something depending on whether the games sell more or less. Not sure, but have a gut feeling). I also think that in time MS will purchase Valve - the current dynamic on PC market does not look that good for Valve in long run with publishers having their own services and EGS having the backing of Tencent. But with MS backing they might not need 30% margin and can lower it to 10% for example.

P.s. I think that WSL introduced in Windows 10 is a long term plan of MS to bring Linux to Windows
P.p.s if we look at the signs, American corporations are slowly - Amazon is relatively fast though - subsuming the infrastructure of USA
 
Last edited:
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Wizz-Art

nikolino840

Member
Dec 30, 2018
3,600
3,916
610
36
Well, that's encouraging. I'd rather not have to purchase an Xbox just to play a few games. I can wait a year to play them.

I always assumed these would be full exclusives. But I guess it does make sense, to make them just timed exclusives. That way, they can recoup some of that 7.5 billion dollars invested. It's hard to do that, if you are basically giving the games away for free on your own platform and not selling them to the majority of the gaming market.
I think there's more players on pc..becouse if it's a niche market the problem of putting Xbox games on pc is a non-problem becouse if there's few doesn't matter if they put or not put at all becouse the big numbers are on a console
 

Warnen

Can he swing from a thread? Take a look overhead / Hey, there, there goes the Spider-Man
Sep 24, 2005
4,760
3,734
1,840
42
Sea lab
Hot take

still don’t think any future games besides the 2 already planed making it to PS5

1st better best thing might mean games won’t come day and date on PC...
 
  • Like
  • Triggered
Reactions: EDMIX and Forsythia

Humdinger

Member
Apr 21, 2010
4,120
2,806
650
All in all, MS doesn't need Sony to get the profit. As I mentioned before - as of now pure revenue from GamePass even in the worst-case scenario (nobody uses Ultimate) is 1 800 000 000 per year. It is pure gamepass revenue without anything else included. I believe after all the expenses the pure profit should be at least around 50kk - 150kkk per year.

That's just guesswork, though. You really have no idea. You're not in the position to say. Neither am I.

In any event, the CFO's remarks suggest that MS will not choose to miss out on the profit involved in selling to Sony and Nintendo gamers (and some on PC, not sure how that works).

As I said earlier, that surprises me. I expected these to be full exclusives. I figured that was the whole point of buying them up -- to boost their exclusive catalog. But I guess they can still accomplish most of that with time-limited exclusivity, free Day 1 release on GP, and by throwing in some exclusive DLC or something, maybe a Todd Howard plushie. And they could still reap the full-price profit sales to a majority of the market.
 
Last edited:
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: EDMIX

ChuckeRearmed

Member
Jan 31, 2018
1,865
1,534
385
That's just guesswork, though. You really have no idea. You're not in the position to say. Neither am I.

In any event, the CFO's remarks suggest that MS will not choose to miss out on the profit involved in selling to Sony and Nintendo gamers (and some on PC, not sure how that works).

As I said earlier, that surprises me. I expected these to be full exclusives. I figured that was the whole point of buying them up -- to boost their exclusive catalog. But I guess they can still accomplish most of that with time-limited exclusivity, free Day 1 release on GP, and by throwing in some exclusive DLC or something, maybe a Todd Howard plushie. And they could still reap the full-price profit sales to a majority of the market.
It is guesswork but there is not a reason to believe that MS desperately needs Playstation platform to return the money. And it doesn't need to return money at all.

As I stated before I believe the games won't come to PS without GamePass attached. Unless of course - GamePass will suddenly start losing subscribers. Netflix does not release movies on Amazon Prime. Disney+ does not release on Netflix - there is not a single platform holder that release its unique content on other platforms. If they will release games on other platforms - they will end like Windows Phone or Zune with their Xbox. Simple as that.
 
Last edited:
  • LOL
Reactions: EDMIX

Clear

Deer/Dur
Feb 2, 2009
11,766
6,184
1,245
Gotta say, I think people need to consider that a "Netflix for Gaming" is kinda antithetical to the standard "blockbuster" model of production. Services are about consistency and momentum, because the notion is that whatever is happening in the rest of the market people will still keep paying their subs.

I mean the whole notion of making huge ultra-budget titles is to capture the attention of the market, and make equally huge bank because its the game of the moment and the masses are queuing up to pay their $70 entry fee. A RDR2 or Cyberpunk doesn't really fit on GamePass because... well how exactly are they supposed to recoup that expense? The income from the service is kinda fixed to basically x users paying y cash per month which then needs to pay for everything on it.

MS has kinda painted themselves into a corner by saying every MGS title is day and date on GP. I mean that approach kinda makes sense when each title isn't projected to shift that many units, but for big, expensive titles that (formerly) needed to shift millions at retail in order to break even...

The only way I see it working is if they are stuffed to the gills with MTX or some other method of extending the income tail because even with a high conversion rate of renters to buyers, its got to result in a significantly lower gross amount of income around launch.

Because lets be real here, the argument being made is that not only are these Bethesda properties going to be released on fewer platforms, they are basically being folded into a pre-existing service at no added cost! How is this going to work without causing a substantial loss of earnings?
 
Last edited:
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: EDMIX
Mar 18, 2020
718
1,581
505
Buy PS5:
-play Sony exclusives
-play moneyhats
-play half of MS exclusives

Buy Xbox:
-play Forza, Fable, Halo, Gears
.....

There will be no reason to buy Xbox if they do this
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Forsythia

Alphagear

Member
Mar 13, 2018
610
768
350
Not surprised.

Microsoft simply won't have the install base to make profits on 23 studios titles by making them exclusive and just on Gamepass.

Thats if all made big budget AAA titles.

People are living in a fantasy world if they expect all of them to make AAA titles and just being on Xbox and PC gamepass.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: EDMIX

McCarth

Member
Jul 17, 2020
114
139
230
Toronto
This is a very interesting strategy by MS, and indicative of the larger picture they care about. Clearly they feel that a timed exclusivity or some exclusive features is enough of a boost to their platform to then also reap the benefits of revenue from sales on the other platforms.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: EDMIX

quest

Not Banned from OT
Jul 17, 2004
5,883
2,631
1,695
This is a very interesting strategy by MS, and indicative of the larger picture they care about. Clearly they feel that a timed exclusivity or some exclusive features is enough of a boost to their platform to then also reap the benefits of revenue from sales on the other platforms.
Yes those 6 sales after it became a timed exclusive would totally be worth adding development time, making the game look worse and selling less xboxes. Yes Microsoft totally spent all this money to be a publisher of a company that can't make any money and hence was for sale. Help Sony sell consoles they are the most generous company. Degrading thier exclusives to help their rival.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Forsythia

MrFunSocks

Banned
Jul 9, 2020
3,019
5,437
645
Let me get this right: MS has always been right and never wrong. Only success stories. Like with Nokia and the whole history of XBox? Because companies fail as well as succeed.

XBox is the consoles. To which they attached Game Pass and their game store for PCs. That's it.
Ms literally make xbox. They make the xbox apps and games on all the platforms.

You're fighting an odd fight here.

Say what?
Why do they have it on PC then?
Spend more money; you mean like on real games?
Game Pass is on windows. Microsoft make windows. Game Pass games are only on the Microsoft Store / Xbox App. That's how they make money.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: EDMIX and quest

EDMIX

Gold Member
Apr 5, 2018
4,759
3,657
525
32
South Florida aka Outer Haven
Hot take

still don’t think any future games besides the 2 already planed making it to PS5

1st better best thing might mean games won’t come day and date on PC...

Unlikely, if anything PC would be the platform that they put it out on day and date. That is how they are doing all their games right now.

There will be no reason to buy Xbox if they do this

Yet that already is their model on PC so what are you talking about? MS gave up on reasons to buy a XB a long time ago when they started putting their games on other platforms. Its simply an option now, it not needed to play any of their titles going forward as they made that pretty clear. So the question you have is more so for how MS is literally doing their set up as of right now.

Buy PS5:
-play Sony exclusives
-play moneyhats
-play half of MS exclusives

Buy Xbox:
-play Forza, Fable, Halo, Gears
.....

There will be no reason to buy Xbox if they do this

So it would be like saying

"Buy a gaming PC:
-play some Sony exclusives
-play ALL of MS exclusives

Buy Xbox:
-play Forza, Fable, Halo, Gears
.....

There will be no reason to buy Xbox if they do this"

Do you not see the irony in what you are questioning?

Not surprised.

Microsoft simply won't have the install base to make profits on 23 studios titles by making them exclusive and just on Gamepass.

Thats if all made big budget AAA titles.

People are living in a fantasy world if they expect all of them to make AAA titles and just being on Xbox and PC gamepass.

Agreed. MS won't even fucking do that with their own titles they've already owned ie putting things ONLY on XB, they have them on PC now day and date.

For fuck sakes, MS won't even do that with a 3 billion investment, why would they do it with an 8 billion investment on IPs many on here admittedly stated are "smaller" then other huge IP? Oh so MS want to spend more and then proceed to make less by having a even lessor install base?

So they've already done this with Minecraft as a new game came out this year on many systems, they've already stated they want their games on all devices, theses statements only continue to point that they have intent to have such IP on many systems, they are making it clear they want to be the Netflix of gaming ie 3rd party service. Don't know about any of you but what devices does Netflix limit themselves on to sell a box? The fuck?

If MS TRUELY wanted to just sell a box, you would not see their games on PC day and date and you would not fucking see Minecraft dungeons on PS and Nintendo systems this year. Very hard to say they reallllllly don't want to do this and every day they remind you they do lol

Be like "MS wants to sell it only on XB"

MS- "we.....we want to have our titles on as many devices"

Them "Ok....but you won't see it on many devices doe"

MS- "we are putting our games out on PC day and date"

Them "ok...but thats it right?"

MS- Minecraft Dungeons coming to Switch, PS4, PC....and XONE

Them "ok now that you got that out of your system, that it right bro?"

MS...."we want Bethesda content to be first or better or best on Xbox platforms"

Them.....

 

Tschumi

Banned
Jul 4, 2020
2,639
3,116
590
Japan
It's not such a calamity, reminds me of the 00s when you needed an Xbox got kotor or Morrowind, Thief 3, etc~
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: EDMIX

Brofist

Member
Jun 15, 2004
10,723
645
1,690
Not surprised.

Microsoft simply won't have the install base to make profits on 23 studios titles by making them exclusive and just on Gamepass.

Thats if all made big budget AAA titles.

People are living in a fantasy world if they expect all of them to make AAA titles and just being on Xbox and PC gamepass.

Didn't Spencer explicitly say they don't need to release on the competition to recoup the Zenimax purchase.
 

Moses85

Member
Jan 7, 2018
1,348
1,566
420
Let’s wait and see how the Xbox will sell... if it’s selling performance is like shit, they have to release it on PS5 to satisfy their shareholders.
 
Dec 22, 2019
1,044
3,808
345
It will drive Game Pass subs regardless, why spend money to get Doom etc on PS5 when you just get it free on Xbox
They're literally already flexing that leverage, Doom Eternal is free right now on Gamepass.
Almost fell off my chair when I saw Doom Eternal free on Gamepass, MS does not screw around at all.
I don't agree with timed exclusivity, I think still go for global multi-platform release, but you put it out for free on Gamepass is a bigger potential winner

Umm, you realize the MSRP for gamepass is $120 a year? And you have to keep paying in order to continue access those "free" games?
 

jaysius

Member
Oct 3, 2019
1,540
1,760
400
Wait, does this mean Bethesda will actually OPTIMIZE for a platform now? Jesus they're going to have to take some lessons from someone else to learn how to do that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EDMIX

Tschumi

Banned
Jul 4, 2020
2,639
3,116
590
Japan
Umm, you realize the MSRP for gamepass is $120 a year? And you have to keep paying in order to continue access those "free" games?
I almost made a thread about that last part - I'm kinda uncomfortable with the concept of "owning" subscription games, to such an extent that i don't sign up for subscription services.
 
Last edited:

EDMIX

Gold Member
Apr 5, 2018
4,759
3,657
525
32
South Florida aka Outer Haven
I am just annoyed because Minecraft proves nothing as it is a completely different case.

Doesn't matter, its the only thing we can reference of any first party publisher spending BILLIONS on something and clearly it being on many systems with many new releases. So its a different case because they spent billions? Well they are spending billions here.... Its a different case cause Minecraft was already on many systems? Well TES and Fallout have been on many systems generations before Minecraft even existed... your points work against you btw. It makes it a very hard argument to say something was "different" about this situation and many of the things mirror each other if anything might even be worst in favor of your argument. So the MORE you tell me Minecraft sold prior and the LESS you tell me Fallout or Elder Scrolls sold only argues for their need to be on many systems even GREATER as they just spent MORE MONEY on something you admit is smaller then other IP.

Its a tough sell man. It doesn't even make sense.

By being everywhere it generates more profit than as an exclusive game.

ikr, makes sense to have Fallout and Elder Scrolls on as many platforms to make as much profit then right?

brings money by being everywhere to popularize the merchandise and other stuff.

FACTS, just like this right?


Do you not see how odd that argument starts to sound? The reason for what they did with Minecraft makes sense, I'm not disagreeing with you...but I agree with your point sooooooooo much, that is why I'm saying it about this Bethesda deal. The same reasons you are saying this apply to those IP just the same, if not even more so considering they are not even as big as "GTA", thus why would MS spend MORE and then proceed to aim to make less? If anything they would need to push this brand even harder to everyone because like you said its NOT as big as other IP. So why limit it? Spend more to make less? come on man. Logically think about this.

We should agree to disagree. Just like in Highlander - there can be only one. When E3 comes - or wherever there will be a reveal - we will see who's right and who's wrong.

lol likely, but I don't think you are 100% wrong either. Of course MS bought this IP (or in the process of buying it) for a reason, simply that I don't see enough evidence that the reason was to lock it behind limited systems as we only have a history of them spending billions in gaming on a IP to make the return by having the content on many, many platforms for the very reason you stated. So I don't think E3 is going to answer this as for all we know they only have certain IP on many platforms.

As I stated before I believe the games won't come to PS without GamePass attached.

Could be. Sony did allow that whole EA thing, so who knows. MS did say they want Gamepass on as many devices.

GamePass will suddenly start losing subscribers. Netflix does not release movies on Amazon Prime.

Come on now, you know that analogy makes no sense! Why make such a odd argument? No one is saying Gamepass would appear on Playstation now, why did you make the argument that Netflix wouldn't be on Amazon Prime?

What is being talked about is hardware, where will the game or service end up etc. A better argument is Netflix would APPEAR on Amazon Firestick ie HARDWARE made by Amazon.


It would be like saying something odd like "Oh you don't see Netflix on APPLE TV STREAMING SERVICE" I mean....yea, but why the fuck would you even say that? Why would the service, BE in another service?

So could a SERVICE appear on a rival platform? Sure. EA access exist on XONE, EA access exist on PS4..... as in, the hardware made by Sony and MS has subscriptions from a rival publisher......

As in...

https://help.netflix.com/en/node/23887

So you won't see Netflix on Prime, but you won't see Gamepass ON PS Now, its a odd thing to say as it makes little sense. You could however see Gamepass on Mac, Gamepass on Nintendo Switch, Gamepass on Playstation etc.

Make it make sense....

If they will release games on other platforms - they will end like Windows Phone or Zune with their Xbox. Simple as that.

I disagree. They are putting games literally on PC and doing fine. XB has its place, but MS needs to focus on the overall company. I think its wise to focus on many platforms and give up on this whole "exclusive" thing. Its simply something Sony and Nintendo do very, very well. MS has their own thing with trying to be the Netflix of gaming and I think they can pull it off, but you don't see NETFLIX as as service LOCKED on some Netflix hardware or something.

They reached many people by being on many devices, regardless of who makes the device ie Apple or Amazon etc. THAT is how Netflix got to be as big as they are.
 
Last edited:

Alphagear

Member
Mar 13, 2018
610
768
350
Didn't Spencer explicitly say they don't need to release on the competition to recoup the Zenimax purchase.

I am referring their game budgets alone. The acquisition costs make it less likely.

People believe the 23 studios are gonna make AAA titles yet remain Xbox and PC gamepass only.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EDMIX
Mar 18, 2020
718
1,581
505
They might also be in the, "Let's just throw every possibility at journalists and see how people react" stage. I can't believe MS would be this stupid but stranger things have happened I guess.

The sony stans arguing that exclusives don't matter to them are hilarious though. They are the only reason those consoles exist. You don't sell tens of milions of consoles at loss if you don't care about the business.

Again, I would be incredibly surprised if they release anything non GAAS on PS5. And if they do, I'll switch to Sony in a heartbeat.
 

ChuckeRearmed

Member
Jan 31, 2018
1,865
1,534
385
Doesn't matter, its the only thing we can reference of any first party publisher spending BILLIONS on something and clearly it being on many systems with many new releases. So its a different case because they spent billions? Well they are spending billions here.... Its a different case cause Minecraft was already on many systems? Well TES and Fallout have been on many systems generations before Minecraft even existed... your points work against you btw. It makes it a very hard argument to say something was "different" about this situation and many of the things mirror each other if anything might even be worst in favor of your argument. So the MORE you tell me Minecraft sold prior and the LESS you tell me Fallout or Elder Scrolls sold only argues for their need to be on many systems even GREATER as they just spent MORE MONEY on something you admit is smaller then other IP.
You are too fixated on 7.5 billion. The war chest is not about ROI - that 120 billion (though I think it is closer to 50-60 that can be really spent because usually keep 2-3 Q budgets as a safety net) are for the investments - try something, if it fails it fails. Some people will be fired and that's it.

If it were Sony they would probably have released games on other platforms because they don't have that amount of money - I mean you just can't throw all your PS4 earnings over a publisher. Though for Sony's case they would settle on money-hatting and time exclusivity.

Its a different case cause Minecraft was already on many systems?
Minecraft was not even purchased by (or for) the Xbox division at that time. And had no relation to that for some time or something.

I disagree. They are putting games literally on PC and doing fine.
Why do you continue bringing PC? PC is MS's platform too (each PS - aside linux based - is Windows). Even Sony started to bring the games there (albeit much later for the time being)

but you don't see NETFLIX as as service LOCKED on some Netflix hardware or something.
And I said before that if Sony allows GamePass - just like the Netflix app - then MS will publish their games there. But not through PS store.

All in all, you are arguing for the reason to get Bethesda's games on PS5, not about the best decision for MS. As mentioned before - we should agree to disagree.

P.S. Anyway in order not to continue the discussion, because we are going in circles, I have put a list of my points, that I have been saying from the very beginning.
  1. MS has a warchest of 120 billion $ roughly. Out of that, it can spend around 50-60 billion at once (maybe a little bit more) (because companies usually keep a safety net of several Q earnings)
  2. 7.5 billion $ is an investment - if it works, it works. If not - somebody will be fired and they will sell the assets or just forget about it altogether.
  3. Minecraft was not purchased by Xbox division at all and Mojang stated from the very beginning that games will be available on all the platforms (even mentioned them as far as I remember)
  4. Minecraft is not a game, but a platform that available even in schools so we can consider it more like the application rather than a game even
  5. MS will allow Bethesda's games on PS only with the GamePass attached. But it won't allow it in PS Store as is.
  6. MS releases games on PC because it is MS' platform basically (and with WSL they are "embracing" Linux). Also, they are highly likely to purchase Valve in the future.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Forsythia

Mattyp

Gold Member
May 29, 2017
1,650
2,446
550
Yet they spent almost 8 billion dollars to get it..... I'd argue being SMALLER then GTA and costing them almost 8 billion literally is an argument why they have no actually benefit then putting it on less install bases.....

So all this argues is they spent more and NEED to continue to have it on many platforms to get the IP to those "GTA" levels. So correcting Bethesda's "mishandling" to get it to even move such numbers still means it needs to be on a large amount of systems.....like Minecraft.

"Why do people count MS's money? With sony's 7.5 bil earnings"

Why do you keep bring up other companies? Sorry but Sony nor Nintendo are spending billions on IPs to bring them to other platforms.

Its why MS is relevant in this concept, they are the ones that do this. So you could keep arguing about how XYZ company didn't do this or that, but thats useless, its irrelevant, it holds zero point to the thread bud, the tread is not about Nintendo or Sony or EA or Activision or Ubisoft etc, its about what MS has done in the past and what they might do in the future.

Sooooo its massively hard to argue this when MS has literally done this before and Sony and Nintendo have not as they have no real obvious plans to be 3rd parties or something. Its an even harder argument when you say they spent more and the IP isn't as big as GTA...... oh so you think they spent more money to then make less money, on less units?

Do tell....


So... put a years gold bet on Starfield coming to PS5 then? That people still can't read between the lines and he's talking about existing content after what Phil has come out and said is mind blowing.

They care about driving gamepass subscriptions, they don't give a fuck about recouping sales on Playstation end of discussion.
 

EDMIX

Gold Member
Apr 5, 2018
4,759
3,657
525
32
South Florida aka Outer Haven
If it were Sony

Irrelevant man, stay on topic. This is about what MS is doing regarding this.


Why do you continue bringing PC?

Because its a different platform, as in MS doesn't just solely make moves based on XB. Your comment of "If they will release games on other platforms - they will end like Windows Phone or Zune with their Xbox. Simple as that" Doesn't really make sense, as your own fucking comment is saying its a MS platform, its still a different platform. So XB will be fine.

Look at your comment btw

" they will end like Windows Phone or Zune with their Xbox"

Your comment of "other platforms" worries about what will happen to the platform "XBOX".....

And I said before that if Sony allows GamePass - just like the Netflix app - then MS will publish their games there. But not through PS store.

Could be, who knows. I never debated where it would end up ie PSN, PS Now, Gamepass etc. Simply that MS likely wants to make a return and will continue to have those games on many platforms, regardless if that is native on PS5, PSN, Gamepass etc.

All in all, you are arguing for the reason to get Bethesda's games on PS5, not about the best decision for MS.

???? Getting the games on many platforms very much is the best decision for MS, their job is to make as much money as possible, not to limit their user base and reach to make you happy or something. Sooooooo that very much could be the very same thing bud, they could put it on PS5, Switch 2, Mac, PC, IoS etc, the logic behind that is more so for MS to make they most money, not to make you emotionally upset or something as you seem to think this speculation is solely based on make you mad or something.

They did it before, its fair speculation to believe they would do it again.

MS has a warchest of 120 billion

Doesn't mean they don't want to make a return bud.

7.5 billion $ is an investment

So was 2.5 billion and it was put on many platforms. So spend more money to make less money? Make your argument make sense.

Minecraft was not purchased by Xbox division at all and Mojang stated from the very beginning that games will be available on all the platforms (

And? That just supports MS is ok with this.... Yet MS is saying they want "Bethesda content to be first or better or best on XBOX platforms" and yet you are fucking ignoring that soooooo I don't think you really care about what they are saying if it results in a view against what you want.

Minecraft is not a game, but a platform

Doesn't change the fact that MS spent money on it and has it on many platforms even with brand new games in 2020....

MS will allow Bethesda's games on PS only with the GamePass attached. But it won't allow it in PS Store as is.

Neither of us know how MS will put those games out. For all we know its going to be all of the above. Put on Gamepass on PS5, a year later on disk as a game of the year edition etc. Who knows.

MS releases games on PC because it is MS' platform

? The comment made prior was based on your worries on the XBOX platform regarding putting games else where.... that doesn't change just cause MS owns the PC OS.

Wtf are going to say when this deal lands?


So their goal is to bring games to many platforms and many devices. If the own the device is completely fucking irrelevant as I don't even get why you are so fixated on that.
 

ChuckeRearmed

Member
Jan 31, 2018
1,865
1,534
385
So? I don't see MS releasing its games on App Store separately from GamePass. Just like I stated earlier - without GamePass attached MS won't release games on PS.

Irrelevant man, stay on topic. This is about what MS is doing regarding this.




Because its a different platform, as in MS doesn't just solely make moves based on XB. Your comment of "If they will release games on other platforms - they will end like Windows Phone or Zune with their Xbox. Simple as that" Doesn't really make sense, as your own fucking comment is saying its a MS platform, its still a different platform. So XB will be fine.

Look at your comment btw

" they will end like Windows Phone or Zune with their Xbox"

Your comment of "other platforms" worries about what will happen to the platform "XBOX".....



Could be, who knows. I never debated where it would end up ie PSN, PS Now, Gamepass etc. Simply that MS likely wants to make a return and will continue to have those games on many platforms, regardless if that is native on PS5, PSN, Gamepass etc.



???? Getting the games on many platforms very much is the best decision for MS, their job is to make as much money as possible, not to limit their user base and reach to make you happy or something. Sooooooo that very much could be the very same thing bud, they could put it on PS5, Switch 2, Mac, PC, IoS etc, the logic behind that is more so for MS to make they most money, not to make you emotionally upset or something as you seem to think this speculation is solely based on make you mad or something.

They did it before, its fair speculation to believe they would do it again.



Doesn't mean they don't want to make a return bud.



So was 2.5 billion and it was put on many platforms. So spend more money to make less money? Make your argument make sense.



And? That just supports MS is ok with this.... Yet MS is saying they want "Bethesda content to be first or better or best on XBOX platforms" and yet you are fucking ignoring that soooooo I don't think you really care about what they are saying if it results in a view against what you want.



Doesn't change the fact that MS spent money on it and has it on many platforms even with brand new games in 2020....



Neither of us know how MS will put those games out. For all we know its going to be all of the above. Put on Gamepass on PS5, a year later on disk as a game of the year edition etc. Who knows.



? The comment made prior was based on your worries on the XBOX platform regarding putting games else where.... that doesn't change just cause MS owns the PC OS.

Wtf are going to say when this deal lands?


So their goal is to bring games to many platforms and many devices. If the own the device is completely fucking irrelevant as I don't even get why you are so fixated on that.
As I mentioned before - we should agree to disagree. There can be only one :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
Last edited:
  • LOL
Reactions: EDMIX