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[Timedog]

A class action waiver is being upheld by courts??? Ummmm, how?

 

[Ace Harding]

I thought this stuff didn't hold up in court.

But yeah nothing new here, and not unique to Microsoft.

 

[Surface of Me]

A class action waiver is being upheld by courts??? Ummmm, how?

Pretty much, a private contract cannot nullify your rights.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

Shirley this cannot be legal?

Don't call me Shirley

As has been stated, this is SOP in the States, every corporation with a EULA has this clause.

 

[GashPrex]

Yes. Sony and Valve already does that.

Still it is EULA which means essentially nothing to real law. You may sign it but from law standpoint they can't disallow you to go for class action.

It is for them to make some people drop some claims like many other EULA bullshit.

Here is other case from EULA (valve)

EULA means nothing? Come on, maybe in EU because of statutes that prevent certain portions from being enforceable, but certainly not in the US. The US tends to operate on the principal, don't like it? don't buy it. There are certain exceptions, but nothing that would render a EULA unenforceable.

 

[AuthenticM]

That shit is still illegal where I live, so ha !

 

[kinggroin]

Ok the cognitive dissonance on GAF lately is getting crazy if people are challenging this.

Or everyone shocked by this is European with no clue how Corporate law now works in the United States (it blows).

It was a joke m'man.


Stump always has the answer; it was a "dum-de-duh" type of question (no question mark and poor detail) related to that.

 

[Deku Tree]

This was put in the Xbox Live TOS over a year ago.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT&T_v._Concepcion

Go go corporatism!

Gotta love those 5-4 party line Supreme Court decisions. When thise happen, with todays court, you can almost always bet that big corporations win and regular consumers will lose.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

since i am not presented with this agreement to sign before handed the game console i pay a retailer money for, and only find out about the agreement when i first power on hypothetical console, am i able to say "No" and then return the unit for a full refund?

 

[Satchel]

Is this news? Didn't the 360 and PS3 already have this, or something like it too?

 

[maabus1999]

Pretty much, a private contract cannot nullify your rights.

In the US, a Constitutional Amendment or a new law that does not go against the Supreme Court ruling that limits this waiver (which would leave loophonles for Corporations most likely) is about the only way to STOP MSFT and all Corporations from doing this in the United States. With the GOP controlling the House, never will happen (and the Democrats won't jump for this either...United Citizens case is going to be the number one target first for them).

 

[maabus1999]

It was a joke m'man.


Stump always has the answer; it was a "dum-de-duh" type of question (no question mark and poor detail) related to that.

Can't really tell with half the posts in this thread, or am I wrong?

 

[KingK]

If one of the conservative justices on the Supreme Court dies/retires while Obama or another Dem is President, would it be possible to challenge these class action waivers again? The AT&T decision was 5-4, with all 4 of the liberal judges dissenting, so I imagine if the court was flipped to a liberal majority they would find this shit to be illegal. I'm just not sure how common or likely it is for the Supreme Court to change previous decisions.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

EULA means nothing? Come on, maybe in EU because of statutes that prevent certain portions from being enforceable, but certainly not in the US. The US tends to operate on the principal, don't like it? don't buy it. There are certain exceptions, but nothing that would render a EULA unenforceable.

That's not the principle. The correct principle is: Oh, you're the consumer? How about you go get fucked.

 

[Dude Abides]

The point is that if Microsoft does anything illegal with XBO--or Sony with PS4--or Valve with Steam--or any corporation from now on with any service they run (imagine, for example, that they illegally charge you more sales tax than they're supposed to; imagine, for example, that they have a software glitch that illegally eats your money when you go to buy something without giving you the content you bought; imagine, for example, that they double bill you for Live; imagine, for example, that they falsely advertise the price or content of something--and I'm not saying they are going to do any of those things), you would have to sue them individually after going through mandated arbitrartion. This will first and foremost make it not worth your time, and second of all ensure that they are never punished for doing wrong, merely forced to make it square if that.



They can't do what you just said, but they can force you to go to arbitration first (they get to appoint the arbitrator, as well) and they can force you to make sure any arbitration or subsequent lawsuit is done by you individually, not acting with other people who have also been harmed. This means that you have to waste a lot of your time and money for a harm that is likely going to be fairly small. Class action lawsuits are a way to tip the balance because each individual person can get their remedy without having to invest all the time and money required to go through the process.

This isn't quite right. These clauses prevent you from bringing a class claim in the arbitration itself. They don't prevent civil class actions in court directly. But the agreement to arbitrate would bar any civil suit, class action or otherwise (except under very limited circumstances).

 

[twobear]

So I guess Xbox One is like Steam after all.