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[sainraja]

Usually first party + ID@Xbox + a select third party devs MS makes a deal with.



Support for BC didn’t end. BC games still work as well as they’ve ever done.
They’ve stopped adding new games to the list. Nobody sees that as a negative, since the program itself was always an ‘above and beyond’ feature, and never advertised as a full library BC.



Again, the main retail crackdown happened in April. Months ago. They stopped turning a blind eye to retail emus and killed the apps.

This renewed crackdown we’re discussing is them now banning a few folks who tried to restart the program after a hiatus.

Doesn’t make sense for you to say MS has turned a blind eye to retail emus until now




Me: “I don’t think a loophole people were exploiting counts as a ‘feature’ MS has taken away

You: “Stop policing this thread!! I’m concerned they’ll take away developer mode too”

Lol. I guess when someone just doesn't want to understand, this is what it looks like. The only thing I will say to wrap it all up, and it is the perfect example of YOU trying NOT to understand, is that when someone says "support for BC ended," they are saying that no additional games are being worked on for compatibility. Now here is an example of what you do with words → Nice try there using the word "new" games, well, surely, they don't need to add support for "new" games as they should be compatible by default; should Starfield not be compatible? Hmm? Did I just do what you've been doing?

 

[93xfan]

Imagine going this hard on someone because they said they have less reason to own a plastic box now. Why are you taking it so personally?

Why are people so excited about the PS5 Pro? And why pay hundreds for it? You’re just trading in one plastic box for another.

Btw, Sony sucks since closing Team ICO, getting rid of Socom, getting rid of evolution studios, and being so shut about BC. They also close servers regularly. Glad I moved away from them and Xbox/Nintendo and kept my PS3.

Don’t be mad that I insulted the shitty PlayStation brand. It’s just plastic box, after all. Now to find some PlayStation only threads to spread the word.

 

[German Hops]

Why won't they ban emulators in dev mode, though?

 

[Hendrick's]

It's not all first party. Off the top of my head, LEGO Star Wars is a Play Anywhere title.

I meant all 1st party is PA, 3rd party is based on what that publisher agrees to.

 

[Dacvak]

The mentality of “just emulate on PC” feels flawed to me. Using RetroArch in retail mode was great for people who want to play games mostly on their TV, and don’t have a computer hooked up to it. (Which I imagine is most casual gamers.)

Retail mode emulation was awesome. I was able to set it up on my non-tech-savvy friends’ machines, and it was brilliant for them. Dev mode is a giant pain in the ass, especially for the casual user. (It’s especially annoying how it prompts you to delete everything every time you switch back to retail mode.)

This doesn’t personally bother me since I’m not a fan of software emulation anyway, but it’s still a bummer overall.

 

[Three]

Why are people so excited about the PS5 Pro? And why pay hundreds for it? You’re just trading in one plastic box for another.

Btw, Sony sucks since closing Team ICO, getting rid of Socom, getting rid of evolution studios, and being so shut about BC. They also close servers regularly. Glad I moved away from them and Xbox/Nintendo and kept my PS3.

Don’t be mad that I insulted the shitty PlayStation brand. It’s just plastic box, after all. Now to find some PlayStation only threads to spread the word.

Nice edit to get rid of your meltdown about mods deleting your post or not caring about being banned by them but no I won't call somebody a dumbass and add them to my ignore list because they said they find a plastic box less appealing. Nice try.

 

[Ozriel]

Why won't they ban emulators in dev mode, though?

Dev mode is ‘open’ mode. Like Windows, you can run your own apps etc. test your own developed games etc.

They can’t/won’t block anything there

 

[analog_future]

Have you used GOG Galaxy? I've been using GG but I'd be interested to know if Playnite is better?

I haven't tried GOG but I'll just say that Playnite has been pretty flawless for me, and surprisingly easy to set up. Plus it's open source so there's all kind of community driven mods/themes/etc..

Here's a quick demo of how I have mine set up, using a theme called ModernUI:

 

[Killer8]

The mentality of “just emulate on PC” feels flawed to me. Using RetroArch in retail mode was great for people who want to play games mostly on their TV, and don’t have a computer hooked up to it. (Which I imagine is most casual gamers.)

Retail mode emulation was awesome. I was able to set it up on my non-tech-savvy friends’ machines, and it was brilliant for them. Dev mode is a giant pain in the ass, especially for the casual user. (It’s especially annoying how it prompts you to delete everything every time you switch back to retail mode.)

This doesn’t personally bother me since I’m not a fan of software emulation anyway, but it’s still a bummer overall.

Everything you say is correct but the reason for the "just emulate on PC" mentality is because it's now become such a headache on Xbox. When they worked, they were easy to setup and use, but actually maintaining them now while evading the MS ban hammer is a pain in the ass and basically prohibitive to even using them. Emulating on PC isn't as neat of a solution, but at least it works and always will.

 

[drganon]

Why are people so excited about the PS5 Pro? And why pay hundreds for it? You’re just trading in one plastic box for another.

Btw, Sony sucks since closing Team ICO, getting rid of Socom, getting rid of evolution studios, and being so shut about BC. They also close servers regularly. Glad I moved away from them and Xbox/Nintendo and kept my PS3.

Don’t be mad that I insulted the shitty PlayStation brand. It’s just plastic box, after all. Now to find some PlayStation only threads to spread the word.

 

[adamsapple]

Why won't they ban emulators in dev mode, though?

Dev mode is a walled garden, you're side loading apps. There's no link to the windows store where people may have been uploading unsigned apps via loopholes, when you're in dev-mode.

People forget, before this blanket ban, MS were also removing the emulators from the UWP store a day or two after the discord guys would upload them. They would constantly need to keep re-uploading them.

They can't just ban emulators in dev mode, they would need to ban dev mode entirely, which would be a very drastic step since a lot of people use it legitimately as well.

 

[Dream-Knife]

I really have to wonder what the appeal of buying an xbox even is.

It's like having a PC with parental restrictions, but you can't even do half the things you normally would.

 

[Operations66]

Much exaggeration here about the difficulty of using emulator in dev mode.

 

[Thanati]

They’ll Still work under dev mode, right? Isn‘t that $20?

 

[Dacvak]

Much exaggeration here about the difficulty of using emulator in dev mode.

It’s not difficult, it’s just annoying.

 

[adamsapple]

They’ll Still work under dev mode, right? Isn‘t that $20?

Yes, and the price varies by region. US is $20, but if you use Turkey when signing up for it, it's equivalent to $2.

And it's only a one time fee. No recurring.

 

[Js562]

Just use dev mode it's not that hard. A quick dub and your good. There's YouTube videos all over on how to install. I heard people were paying the Patreon members just so they could release it for retail mode when you can pay for it do what you will with it in dev mode yourself . I got some PS2 and Wii games running on mine perfectly just a little time taken.

 

[TLZ]

The dream is dead

 

[Pasta la Vista]

What? But dev mode is okay because you have to pay for it? Is that the logic here?

 

[TLZ]

Dev mode is a walled garden, you're side loading apps. There's no link to the windows store where people may have been uploading unsigned apps via loopholes, when you're in dev-mode.

People forget, before this blanket ban, MS were also removing the emulators from the UWP store a day or two after the discord guys would upload them. They would constantly need to keep re-uploading them.

They can't just ban emulators in dev mode, they would need to ban dev mode entirely, which would be a very drastic step since a lot of people use it legitimately as well.

I had Dev mode and paid for $20 before that got revoked by MS for whatever reason. I can't remember why but they emailed a lot of people back then. Do I have to pay that again?

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

As always I feel like most people that post, only read half the text...emulators are not banned for everyone, only retail mode. Just go the original way of Dev mode and everything works as before. You have $15 for GPU but dont have lifetime pass for $20 for the dev mode?

 

[Fredrik]

Why won't they ban emulators in dev mode, though?

What? But dev mode is okay because you have to pay for it? Is that the logic here?

Apparently this is done to avoid a Nintendo lawsuit, that’s what people are saying here. But it makes zero sense if you ask me. As you say why is dev mode emulators allowed? Why would Nintendo care if people have to reboot the console or not?

Nah I don’t think Nintendo has anything at all to do with this. This is just MS doing a power move to scare people and show that we’re not in control because they can’t figure out how to close a loophole to run unauthorized apps.

Oh well, at least I learned about Playnite which seems to solve all my issues on the UI software side if I would swap out the Xbox for a living room PC.
Can launch emulators and new games from Steam, Gamepass, Epic, GOG, etc from the same menu and use a big screen mode with a controller. On paper it seems perfect. I need to try it though.

 

[TheGreatMusashi]

Time to finally buy a Mister and never look back!

 

[M1chl]

DEV mode has to run any code, otherwise is useless, that's the answer.

 

[GHG]

I see far more desperate attempts to downplay Xbox. This thread and many others are dishonest and pathetic. This news is even months old and I'm sure there were already 10 other threads spun up to try and paint Xbox in a negative light, yet here we are again.

Discussing factual information events/information = "downplaying"?

Apologies we aren't all living in cloud cuckoo land.

Emulation is the new word for pirate. These people don't want to buy anything. Honestly they should also ban it in dev mode too.

 

[Disco Dave]

I'd rather have a console ban than give 80% of my future earnings to Microsoft.

 

[Ozriel]

I really have to wonder what the appeal of buying an xbox even is.

To play video games?

It's like having a PC with parental restrictions, but you can't even do half the things you normally would.

Yes, that's how consoles work.

 

[Ozriel]

Apparently this is done to avoid a Nintendo lawsuit, that’s what people are saying here. But it makes zero sense if you ask me. As you say why is dev mode emulators allowed? Why would Nintendo care if people have to reboot the console or not?

Nah I don’t think Nintendo has anything at all to do with this.

Dev mode is 'open mode'. You're free to run anything you can there, outside the walled garden and outside Microsoft's shop system.

What? But dev mode is okay because you have to pay for it? Is that the logic here?

No. That is not the logic here. You pay for access to developer mode, but that opens up your Xbox for you to run your own stuff. Or make your own games. Or whatever.

This is just MS doing a power move to scare people and show that we’re not in control because they can’t figure out how to close a loophole to run unauthorized apps.

They closed the loophole in April. The emu folks managed to find a way around that, so MS closed that chapter definitively with harsher penalties.
What does that have to do with 'power move to scare people and show you're not in control'?

 

[Schmick]

I haven't tried GOG but I'll just say that Playnite has been pretty flawless for me, and surprisingly easy to set up. Plus it's open source so there's all kind of community driven mods/themes/etc..

Here's a quick demo of how I have mine set up, using a theme called ModernUI:

This looks great. With a SFF PC it would work so well instead of a console.
Is it possible to add apps as well so like Netflix, iPlayer, Amazon Prime etc?

 

[SenkiDala]

Why are people so excited about the PS5 Pro? And why pay hundreds for it? You’re just trading in one plastic box for another.

Btw, Sony sucks since closing Team ICO, getting rid of Socom, getting rid of evolution studios, and being so shut about BC. They also close servers regularly. Glad I moved away from them and Xbox/Nintendo and kept my PS3.

Don’t be mad that I insulted the shitty PlayStation brand. It’s just plastic box, after all. Now to find some PlayStation only threads to spread the word.

I don't get the "Sony did nothing for back compatibility", ok they didn't do as much as they should, but calling it "nothing" is a bit too much.

On PS Plus Premium there are 380 games just for the PS3, it is almost the double of the whole XGP catalogue... Just with PS3 games. What sucks is the PS1 and PS2 catalogues, with about 25 games for each... It gets bigger and bigger but compared to the awesome game catalogue of those consoles it is nothing.

OG Xbox back compatible games are like 40/45 games... But it is ok because "good guys xbox"? Don't get it.

Older games on systems like PS2/Xbox or older are hard to get because licensing issues I guess, many companies that published those games are now closed and finding who's owning the rights must be a pain in the ass, for not so much profit.

 

[nowifenolife]

Wait? Can I play nintendo breath of wild on my series x?

 

[Hendrick's]

Discussing factual information events/information = "downplaying"?

Did you just equate pirating games to Game Pass?

 

[adamsapple]

I had Dev mode and paid for $20 before that got revoked by MS for whatever reason. I can't remember why but they emailed a lot of people back then. Do I have to pay that again?

I remember they reinstated it for people right? have you checked yours again since?

 

[analog_future]

This looks great. With a SFF PC it would work so well instead of a console.
Is it possible to add apps as well so like Netflix, iPlayer, Amazon Prime etc?

Should be possible, yes! Everything that hasn’t auto imported for me so far has been a simple drag/drop of the icon onto the Playnite UI.

 

[TLZ]

I remember they reinstated it for people right? have you checked yours again since?

No I haven't. How do I check? Do I just get the app again and switch to dev mode?

 

[Fredrik]

What does that have to do with 'power move to scare people and show you're not in control'?

The 15 day suspension is a power move and scare tactics and that they can do that because you have apps installed shows that you’re not in control of your device or the content on it.
And it worked, the emu team closed and on social media you’re adviced to uninstall the apps and stick to the dev mode.

Btw, don’t know when it happened but I’m 99.9% sure they wiped videos from my console, I only have screenshots left.
I leave a 0.1% possibility that my memory sucks and I’ve deleted them myself.

 

[adamsapple]

No I haven't. How do I check? Do I just get the app again and switch to dev mode?

Yeah I meant just try switching to it again, see if it works for you. I think they returned access to all the people they accidentally revoked it from.

 

[Fredrik]

I remember they reinstated it for people right? have you checked yours again since?

Yeah I got mine back, the whole thing was about not publishing anything in the store in awhile, a year I think. I actually did use the dev mode for a Unity game so I could request to get access to it again without mentioning emulators.

 

[TLZ]

Yeah I meant just try switching to it again, see if it works for you. I think they returned access to all the people they accidentally revoked it from.

Thanks I'll try that tomorrow morning.

 

[TheCoolDave]

Funny, I still have RetroArch.. installed on my Series X from when it was allowed. I guess I will remove it tonight, so I don't run it and get banned for 15 days...

 

[GHG]

Did you just equate pirating games to Game Pass?

No, but if that's how you wish to interpret it then so be it. Not that surprising though.

 

[THE DUCK]

If its really that important to you, you can grab a used series s for cheap, or build a small form factor pc on the cheap. I don't see the big deal at all.

If its not that important, then no need to complain, or reboot.

 

[sainraja]

Dev mode is a walled garden, you're side loading apps. There's no link to the windows store where people may have been uploading unsigned apps via loopholes, when you're in dev-mode.

People forget, before this blanket ban, MS were also removing the emulators from the UWP store a day or two after the discord guys would upload them. They would constantly need to keep re-uploading them.

They can't just ban emulators in dev mode, they would need to ban dev mode entirely, which would be a very drastic step since a lot of people use it legitimately as well.

I am not clear on their motivations behind their blanket banning, but the next step could be that they remove dev mode entirely. If they do end up going that route, the approach I can see them take, is enable dev mode for those that are using it for the intended reason, via an approval process of some sort. Depends entirely on why they might have started the blanket ban / 15 day ban thing.

 

[sainraja]

I really have to wonder what the appeal of buying an xbox even is.

It's like having a PC with parental restrictions, but you can't even do half the things you normally would.

One has to wonder why MS doesn't just embrace the PC as their main gaming ecosystem and default platform, given that they make the operating system... it's funny that Steam has that locked down. I suppose that might be something they focus more on if their cloud goals don't pan out but this is just speculation.

 

[sainraja]

Hendrick's O Ozriel

Ah, it is you who summoned them. lol.

 

[phant0m]

One has to wonder why MS doesn't just embrace the PC as their main gaming ecosystem and default platform, given that they make the operating system... it's funny that Steam has that locked down. I suppose that might be something they focus more on if their cloud goals don't pan out but this is just speculation.

Yeah. The Windows Xbox "app" should just go full screen like steam big picture and look/work like the console interface. Discs are on the way out anyway, so just tie everything to digital licensing and xCloud streaming. The backcompat and flexibility would give them a huge differentiator against PS

 

[YeulEmeralda]

The mentality of “just emulate on PC” feels flawed to me. Using RetroArch in retail mode was great for people who want to play games mostly on their TV, and don’t have a computer hooked up to it. (Which I imagine is most casual gamers.)

Retail mode emulation was awesome. I was able to set it up on my non-tech-savvy friends’ machines, and it was brilliant for them. Dev mode is a giant pain in the ass, especially for the casual user. (It’s especially annoying how it prompts you to delete everything every time you switch back to retail mode.)

This doesn’t personally bother me since I’m not a fan of software emulation anyway, but it’s still a bummer overall.

I actually think very few casual gamers are interested in emulating old games at all.

 

[Fredrik]

I actually think very few casual gamers are interested in emulating old games at all.

Yeah that’s why I don’t see what’s the big deal. I bet this was used by a couple thousand people, mostly gray gamers who just want to relive their childhood without digging up some dusty old console from the attic to plug into the TV to play an ancient game for a weekend or two.

Didn’t Phil talk about how the industry needs to do more to preserve the video game history?
I don’t think removing access to emulators is the right strategy. They should work with emulator folks and actually make a platform for these old system and games that’ll all be dead in some years. Nintendo tried to do something with Virtual Console on Wii but they wiped it all in two generations.

 

[Dream-Knife]

One has to wonder why MS doesn't just embrace the PC as their main gaming ecosystem and default platform, given that they make the operating system... it's funny that Steam has that locked down. I suppose that might be something they focus more on if their cloud goals don't pan out but this is just speculation.

Yeah I can see MS trying to buy steam. That would be really unfortunate if they do because they seem to turn everything to shit.

Hopefully Gabe has a legacy plan. Soon windows will either be subscription based, or full of ads.

On a related note, Windows Mail is gone next year and replaced by outlook. Outlook has ads unless you pay a subscription fee. Disgusting.

 

[rkofan87]

Again?
Wasn’t this a topic like half a year ago too?

a loop hole was made x box shut it down.