• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

XSEED announcing a new game?

kuroshiki

Member
I don't think you're a terrible person. If you feel that you want a physical copy and not air, you have every right to not buy that game. Like you say, you're a consumer, not a charity. You're supposed to spend your money on what you want, not to support what other people feel deserve support.

Yet at the same time, I feel like sometimes there needs to be a compromise. There needs to be an evaluation of what is being offered and at what price, and see if maybe, just maybe, what is being offered has enough value to deserve a purchase.
I mean, I'm a big supporter of physical purchases, but I had no problem with Corpse Party being DD only, given the price point set, for example.

Also, in this situation of niche games being offered to us as DD only, it's time to start rolling out DD artbooks and DD soundtracks (in lossless format, no shitty lossy stuff please!) to go along with those DD only purchases.

When I blind test you 256 kbps MP3 and FLAC (100 songs), I bet $100 you can't tell which one is 256 kbps MP3 or FLAC. Your guess rate would be most likely 50/50.

I did it to multiple of my friends who claimed to be a music purist, and I always laugh at their asses when they found themselves can't distinguish which one is original which one is 'lossy compression music'.
 

Eusis

Member
When I blind test you 256 kbps MP3 and FLAC (100 songs), I bet $100 you can't tell which one is 256 kbps MP3 or FLAC. Your guess rate would be most likely 50/50.
Yeah, I honestly end up preferring CDs for LEs less for being lossless (especially since that may be irrelevant for some game music) and more because they don't tag any of this crap properly. At least with a CD I can rip it and it'd get the right information, so it's really frustrating when something like ME3 can't be bothered to include one extra disc with the LE and instead require I download WAVs and mark it all myself.
 

Nairume

Banned
Which is exactly why a digital/deluxe physical hybrid system works. *Everyone* essentially gets what they want.
But what about publishers that do both and then end up only breaking even because a disastrous retail release manages to cancel out the gains from a relatively successful digital release? Is that really them getting what they want?
 
I guess I could see why some wouldnt want to buy a DD only game but if this the game going DD only means xseed making more money to bring more games over here Ill take it. I get what some of you are saying about playing the game in 5-10 years but if DD is the best way for xseed to make money and still bring great games here in 5-10 years Im willing to take that risk. In the end I want xseed to do what they can to stick around.
 

Eusis

Member
But what about publishers that do both and then end up only breaking even because a disastrous retail release manages to cancel out the gains from a relatively successful digital release? Is that really them getting what they want?
I believe the idea behind his model is that for $10-20 more you get extra goods like a music CD, artbook, and some silly fun extras. It'd also be a limited print and thus more likely to run out, anyone who missed out would just have to buy DD or hope they can find this used. Actually, Ys I & II Chronicles itself is an example, it went for $5 more than digital but included a music CD, and anyone who missed that now has to pay much more or buy it DD.
 

Lain

Member
When I blind test you 256 kbps MP3 and FLAC (100 songs), I bet $100 you can't tell which one is 256 kbps MP3 or FLAC. Your guess rate would be most likely 50/50.

I did it to multiple of my friend who claimed to be a music purist, and I always laugh at their asses when they found themselves can't distinguish which one is original which one is 'lossy compression music'.

Who knows? Maybe, maybe not. I'd still want lossless at the end of the day though. I mean, I buy CDs to rip myself in a lossless format, and I don't buy digital music unless it is offered in a lossless format (still love Module and Sidhe for the Shatter OST being purchasable as FLAC), because lossless is what I want, an exact copy of a physical product basically, not an approximation.
 

kuroshiki

Member
Who knows? Maybe, maybe not. I'd still want lossless at the end of the day though. I mean, I buy CDs to rip myself in a lossless format, and I don't buy digital music unless it is offered in a lossless format (still love Module and Sidhe for the Shatter OST being purchasable as FLAC), because lossless is what I want, an exact copy of a physical product basically, not an approximation.

What I was trying to say is lossy format is not exactly 'crappy'. Lots of people dismiss it as inferior to 'lossless' one, but when one can't distinguish from one another, (or can't tell which one is 'superior'), I don't see the point.

But that's just me.

I actually would go for high bitrate mp3 to save bandwidth and proper tags, and convenience, if given option.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
When I blind test you 256 kbps MP3 and FLAC (100 songs), I bet $100 you can't tell which one is 256 kbps MP3 or FLAC. Your guess rate would be most likely 50/50.

While true, lossless media are important to be the source for future transcoding--we can safely assume that we won't be able to redownload our digital extras a few decades from now, so making the original sources available in a lossless media helps immensely with preservation.
 

vireland

Member
But what about publishers that do both and then end up only breaking even because a disastrous retail release manages to cancel out the gains from a relatively successful digital release? Is that really them getting what they want?

If managed properly with IP fans will enjoy and cherish, I don't think that will be the result, but I'm willing to provide the test case(s).

Publishers and manufacturers constantly dissed deluxe packs as unprofitable when I was pushing towards them with WD, then once they realized I was right when the sales numbers came out showing they were very profitable, everyone got into the game for their banner titles (but most did them badly and for the wrong reasons).
 

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
If managed properly with IP fans will enjoy and cherish, I don't think that will be the result, but I'm willing to provide the test case(s).

Publishers and manufacturers constantly dissed deluxe packs as unprofitable when I was pushing towards them with WD, then once they realized I was right when the sales numbers came out showing they were very profitable, everyone got into the game for their banner titles (but most did them badly and for the wrong reasons).

Back in the WD days, though, deluxe packs were a completely novel thing in the States. But now, we've gotten so bogged down with needless collector's editions and even more flooded with same-y looking, weeaboo-centric RPGs that I'd imagine it's really tough for even a great JRPG to sell tricked-out physical copies, even to dedicated fans. The whole thing has just lost its luster.

Purely conjecture, of course.
 

vireland

Member
Back in the WD days, though, deluxe packs were a completely novel thing in the States. But now, we've gotten so bogged down with needless collector's editions and even more flooded with same-y looking, weeaboo-centric RPGs that I'd imagine it's really tough for even a great JRPG to sell tricked-out physical copies, even to dedicated fans. The whole thing has just lost its luster.

Purely conjecture, of course.

There really haven't been that many great collector's editions the past 4 or so years, and in fact the category has degraded into code-based premiums that are contrary to what a CE is all about. But, there's only one way to find out if the appetite for fan-centric ones is still there.
 

frequency

Member
There really haven't been that many great collector's editions the past 4 or so years, and in fact the category has degraded into code-based premiums that are contrary to what a CE is all about. But, there's only one way to find out if the appetite for fan-centric ones is still there.

I think my absolute favourite is WD's Lunar Eternal Blue Complete.
Those little character stand things I actually still have sitting on my shelf.

But the best collectable in any "CE" ever is Lucia's Pendant. I wore that heavy thing for the longest time. At one point in my life, I wore both that and the Growlanser Ring-on-a-chain. I had to replace the rope/string thingy on the pendant though. It sits prominently displayed on my shelf now.


But there have been some nice things lately from the Western side of things. Statues and stuff like that. But I'm not really into Western games, so...
I still get the CEs that Aksys, Atlus, and XSeed have put out. Besides Catherine and Agarest War Zero though, it's just been Art book and soundtrack samplers. Which, though I still buy, aren't as useful since I often just import the art books and soundtracks if I like the art/music anyway.
 

Nairume

Banned
Is there a chance for Retro Game Challenge 2
It's way too late for it to happen, but it's something that could probably only work as a downloadable title at this point.

As it stands, we all know what the teased game is anyway, so there's no point in trying to guess it.
 

Eusis

Member
Is there a chance now for Retro Game Challenge 2?
Honestly, I imagine there's a better chance for Half Minute Hero 2 under this model. And it IS a game that's actually a really good fit for it, you keep it on your system to play quickly whenever you feel like it, yet it is more complex than something like Angry Birds or a twin stick shooter.

... And yeah, I kinda expected that response to the code thing. And honestly it IS kind of grating how the LE incentive is sometimes just a bunch of codes or whatever. Of course, Bioware was one of the first to do it for Western games and they kicked that off with "get exclusive merchants from our bonus CD!"
 

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
One thought about the DD stuff:

The claim was asserted a bit ago that in five years time, due to an 'inevitable' fuck-up by someone, nobody would be using DD.

Kinda seems that ship has long sailed; it's a bit like saying any day now there's going to be massive fuck-up on Apple's part and everyone will stop downloading music through iTunes. Which they've been doing for ten years now. Or buying apps and games for their smartphones and tablets. Which are DD only and that's never going to change.

DD is already here to stay, and has been for some time. It's already taken for granted as the standard way of doing things by an absolutely tremendous number of people; just talking practical expectations here.

The enthusiast gaming market really just seems to be the late comer to the DD party (except for PC folk who have long since flashed their Based Gabe super saver coupon at the bouncer and gotten in the door).

So yeah... predicting some kind of disaster for DD requires, I think, crafting a plausible scenario for digital distribution of media and software to vanish overnight or become unpopular with a WHOLE lot of people... that greatly outnumber the relative minority of console game owning software collectors.

My comment isn't about the philosophy of DD versus physical or ownership theory. Just pointing out that, well, we've long been surrounded by the DD ocean. Seems most others have sailed around us.

Having said that I can totally believe that EA Origin is going to suffer some gargantuan fuck-up because, fuck, it's EA Origin. I don't think that will make everybody turn in their Valve fanclub cards though. More just destroy EA Origin LOL
 

Eusis

Member
I think the massive fuck up scenario could still happen... but it's probably going to be more limited in scope and not a "no one buys DD EVER AGAIN" thing. More specifically, I'm thinking of consoles failing to allow transferring our games to the next generation. Maybe that won't actually deter many people afterall, but I could see it permanently stunting any attempts at seriously pushing DD for consoles because, well, why bother paying $50 or $60 when I can get a disc for that price I can actually resell? Or use on a new system or whatever without worrying about online activation. But again that'd probably be limited to consoles, and I'd still see the XBLA model working simply because it's easier for a lot of people to part with $10 or even $15 compared to $60, and either way this is irrelevant on PC because, at worst, SOMETHING happens so no one trusts anyone but Steam (D2D/GameFly fiasco may be a limited example of this, given SWAT 4 and I believe Manhunt 2 are straight up gone.)
 

frequency

Member
I don't think anyone is saying they hope DD doesn't become more prominent in gaming like it is in other mediums. At least for me, I would like to see it continue to grow. I see the benefits of DD, even if it's not my thing in most cases. Who would argue against more options?

What I'm unhappy with are DD-only releases. When there is no physical option.
 
I thinks it is awesome that the game is coming to the eshop. This was one of those niche game that I never thought would be localized. The fact that it is coming and that Nintendo is letting retail games be localized in digital form makes me very happy.

I think I need to get myself a 32 GB SD card the next time I see a good deal.
 

Sqorgar

Banned
The claim was asserted a bit ago that in five years time, due to an 'inevitable' fuck-up by someone, nobody would be using DD.

Kinda seems that ship has long sailed; it's a bit like saying any day now there's going to be massive fuck-up on Apple's part and everyone will stop downloading music through iTunes. Which they've been doing for ten years now. Or buying apps and games for their smartphones and tablets. Which are DD only and that's never going to change.
This is literally the first generation in which DD has been a viable business. There's too many questions about licenses and future access to content we paid for that we haven't had the chance to challenge yet. When the generation change happens, we'll see what happens. For instance, after the 360 was out for a year or two, Microsoft shut off XBL for the original Xbox. Only a few games were really affected due to DLC (Unreal Championship, Halo), but if Microsoft does that with the 360, we are out patches, DLC, multiplayer, and in games with online passes, entire portions of single player games (Catwoman, questlines from games like Rage or Kingdoms of Amalur).

The difference is really the difference between games as a product and games as a service. When a game is a product, once you buy it, it is yours. At most, you've got a small DRM check at startup that hackers will undoubtedly figure out a way past. But games as a service, when that service is turned off, the amount of things you lose and the difficulty of ever getting it back is much, much greater.

I think the PSP Go showed the DD-only releases is not viable for everybody. The fact that niche, fan games are the only ones which succeed this way says less about the cheap cost of publishing and more about the fact that niche fans are the only ones they can reliably get to purchase DD-only games. I mean, look at the DD-only full releases (not including XBLA games): Warriors Orochi 3, Corpse Party, Record of the Agarest War, ClaDun 1 and 2 - these are all games that the fans were honestly just thankful to have in any form at all.

To me, that feels exploitative. Like if you tried to release a DD-only Jak and Daxter PSP game, it wouldn't sell very well at all. It's only the fans who do anything to play these games being given only a single inferior choice, and then it being pointed at and saying, "look! DD-only works! These fans desperate for JRPGs are buying the games we aren't offering in any other way in droves!"

So yeah... predicting some kind of disaster for DD requires, I think, crafting a plausible scenario for digital distribution of media and software to vanish overnight or become unpopular with a WHOLE lot of people... that greatly outnumber the relative minority of console game owning software collectors.
Gaming has traditionally been a niche experience that has been dominated by hardcore fans who are knowledgeable in the field. The concept of hardcore gamer has changed this generation from "guy who owns Earthbound" to "bro shooter guy yelling obscenities over XBL". I feel like this change is similar to the casual market that the Wii brought on board. Yeah, it changed the focus for a while there, but eventually, that audience discovered Facebook games and Angry Birds. I think something similar will happen to the Call of Duty crowd.

I think gaming will go back to the "guy who owns Earthbound" niche market afterwards, and it will continue to return to the enthusiasts as the industry has highs and lows as it dabbles in different core markets. Those software collectors are the glue that gives the industry its history and introspection. When the top 50 games of all time lists come out, somebody is going to be sitting there and saying X-Com, and somebody reading that article is going to wonder how they can try out this wondrous game considered one of the ten best games of all time. And because of that history, we get X-Com remakes that people are looking forward to.

But that's just my opinion.
 

matmanx1

Member
There really haven't been that many great collector's editions the past 4 or so years, and in fact the category has degraded into code-based premiums that are contrary to what a CE is all about. But, there's only one way to find out if the appetite for fan-centric ones is still there.

This is true and very, very sad. I will say that recently Kingdoms of Amalur had some really nice CE's and before them The Witcher 2 (last year) had an excellent CE. Interestingly enough both of those are WRPG's and not JRPG's but if Atlus or Xseed or Aksys was to offer a really nice, limited print run of a JRPG that I wanted you bet I would preorder and gladly pay the premium. This is standard practice in Japan, right? And it's how many of the smaller studios exist and stay financially viable with a small fanbase. Why isn't this practice being repeated here in the USA?
 

7threst

Member
This is true and very, very sad. I will say that recently Kingdoms of Amalur had some really nice CE's and before them The Witcher 2 (last year) had an excellent CE. Interestingly enough both of those are WRPG's and not JRPG's but if Atlus or Xseed or Aksys was to offer a really nice, limited print run of a JRPG that I wanted you bet I would preorder and gladly pay the premium. This is standard practice in Japan, right? And it's how many of the smaller studios exist and stay financially viable with a small fanbase. Why isn't this practice being repeated here in the USA?


But it is... all the Ys games had collectors editions, as did LoH: TitS. Also both Persona remakes on PSP. And DS RPG's from Atlus often come with a soundtrack CD.
 

frequency

Member
But it is... all the Ys games had collectors editions, as did LoH: TitS. Also both Persona remakes on PSP. And DS RPG's from Atlus often come with a soundtrack CD.

The pin in the LoH LE was nice.

But that's not what's being discussed. Art book and soundtrack samplers don't really match the kind of stuff Working Designs did. Of course, WD stuff came at a much higher premium than the standard price at the time. But I paid it and would gladly pay it again for all the trinkets that they stuffed in a box back then.

Some of the NISA store exclusives come a bit closer. They have shirts and cards and sometimes little figures and stuff in their LEs.

Still, nothing really compares to getting a hefty pendant or a ring and a watch.

Western studios have been going a little crazy (in a great way) though. That Skyrim CE had a giant dragon and a full sized art book. Some LOTR CE has like a cloth map and like an arrow quiver and stuff. Too bad those games don't interest me.
 

matmanx1

Member
But it is... all the Ys games had collectors editions, as did LoH: TitS. Also both Persona remakes on PSP. And DS RPG's from Atlus often come with a soundtrack CD.

What frequency said. The kind of CE I'm talking about is much more than what we've been getting in the premium boxes of the JRPG's you've just mentioned. Here's The Witcher 2 CE http://spawnkill.com/2010/11/16/witcher-2-release-date-official/ and here's one of the CE's from Amalur http://www.xbox360achievements.org/...-Collector-s-Edition-Has-a-Big-Old-Troll.html

That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. Even with all of the stuff in those boxes the vastly increased price over the standard edition allows the publisher to make more money on the boxed version. Thinking back on it Atlus did do one for Catherine that was pretty much pre-order only so I applaud them for that.
 

Eusis

Member
Too bad those games don't interest me.
And of course for those that ARE interested some are put off by, say, the Skyrim dragon. I wanted that artbook, but screw paying nearly a $100 more to get the artbook I want... and a statue I don't particularly care to have. But maybe the middleground approach failed for Bethesda, given they did have two tiers of LE for Fallout 3.
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
I never really got the appeal of big LEs like that Witcher 2 or Amalur one. It's just a bunch of stuff. I mean, a bust/statue? Cards?

Only thing I'd really care about is maybe a soundtrack, if that. An art book (preferably an art+info book) if I really, really like the game and there's interesting stuff in it. I was fine with the OST selections for the Ys games, between the three(/four) games there were only two meaningful songs were missing (in my opinion, of course).
 

Eusis

Member
Actually, one of the neatest LE extras as of late has been Halo Reach's, a novella length journal of one of the most important characters in the series. More stuff like that would be neat, closest we get is something like FFXIII-2 offering a short story as a pre-order (or first day/whatever) incentive at Best Buy.
 

scy

Member
No ReXX no sale.

Kind of weird. There will be this, Class of Heroes 2, and then Etrian Odyssey IV. Like a long stretch of first-person dungeon crawlers to be playing. Such a strange feeling...
 

18-Volt

Member
That seals it. I need 32 GB SD card for sure. I hope XSEED localizes other stuff like this way too, i hate carrying tons of cartidges around.
 

Dreweyes

Member
From the XSEED Facebook:

"XSEED Games announces action-adventure title Way of the Samurai 4 for North America this summer exclusively on the PlayStation®3 as a digital release!

Way of the Samurai 4 takes players on a journey through post-isolationist Japan, and chronicles the power struggle between three warring factions.

Players will begin their experience in Way of the Samurai 4 by creating their own customized character and are immediately thrown into a tumultuous power struggle between three factions: the shogunate pro-governmental forces, the nationalistic isolationists, and the foreign powers who are heavily influenced by the British Navy.

As players explore the port town of Amihama, they select which quests and missions to undertake that will shape their destiny as loyalties to each of the three feuding factions affect the branching storyline and which of the multiple endings will be experienced. The dynamic combat system includes a vast array of bladed and gunpowder-based customizable weapons, and the unique online feature allows the uploading and downloading of player characters to roam in other players’ games as an assassin to challenge and defeat in order to receive that character’s equipped spoils. The original Japanese voice-overs have been left intact and will be accompanied by English sub-titles.

Developed by ACQUIRE and published by Spike in Japan, Way of the Samurai 4 will be released in North America this summer on the PlayStation 3 system as a digital release on the PlayStation Store. XSEED Games will share more product info in the coming months."


srNqR.jpg
 

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
Hmm... I wonder how this one compares to 3. I was a huge fan of the first game, though.

Might buy this just to support XSEED, because they're bringing out so much good stuff that I feel obligated.
 

sensui-tomo

Member
I guess the big question is how many GB is this gonna take up?

less than 4GBs, (if they add new stuff from the extra version.. maybe less than 5GBs) but then again you have to count the whole downloading it and then the installer so times that by 2 you should just need 8-11GBs (played it a while back on my cfw ps3, going to buy it whenever it comes out here... i've bought 1-3 and samurai western(ew) going to get this if its in the $40-50 range.
 
Top Bottom