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Yakuza 3 remaster cuts a transphobic quest from the game

angelic

Banned
I don't believe this scene is supposed to be representative of actual transgender people...yet it may be perceived to be by some, as silly and embarrassing characters such as these have been for decades. These characters are three ineffectual drag queens and one drag king, if the poor dialogue is to be taken seriously.

What I mean though is you dont normalise something by making it sacred from ever being referenced. Maybe the content is tasteless, but some things in the world are just that. It's a videogame being silly, not someone making a serious declaration on the subject. There's too much worrying about perceived offence. I also think it's pretty clear that the Japanese think the west is easily offended and dumb.
 

Dthomp

Member
What I mean though is you dont normalise something by making it sacred from ever being referenced. Maybe the content is tasteless, but some things in the world are just that. It's a videogame being silly, not someone making a serious declaration on the subject. There's too much worrying about perceived offence. I also think it's pretty clear that the Japanese think the west is easily offended and dumb.

To be fair, myself as an American think America is easily offended and dumb when it comes to this shit.
 

Isa

Member
I'm a bit put off by its exclusion, as my humour tends to find some gross generalization of stereotypes funny and enjoyed it in the original PS3 release. Honestly I've been groped and hit on by a trans lady in Mexico haha! My gf thought it was hilarious and I was a bit like Kiryu haha. Were friends and all though. I know that not all fall under a group umbrella for one persons' actions but to say that they don't exist is equally as wrong. It pushes a narrative, particularly for something already established. I feel if people want more representation in a manner they prefer they'd do well to see it done through new original ideas rather than editing existing ones which only serve to further divide communities.

By that I mean those who aren't so open-minded tend to not enjoy knowing and seeing stuff they like taken away. To be fair its denigrating for both sides hence my opinion that it only serves to divide. I'd much rather see a new character (or more) that is trans make an appearance in a future title that is well written and respectfully done.
 

E.T. Waifu

Member
What I mean though is you dont normalise something by making it sacred from ever being referenced. Maybe the content is tasteless, but some things in the world are just that. It's a videogame being silly, not someone making a serious declaration on the subject. There's too much worrying about perceived offence. I also think it's pretty clear that the Japanese think the west is easily offended and dumb.
Look, I don't want to start a fight, you don't seem to be an idiot, but I couldn't give a fuck what Japan thinks. Is the west easily offended? Yeah. But we don't like taking anybody's shit, be it someone who is liberal or conservative. In my case, I'm liberal and I don't like it when trans people or anybody else gets mistreated. It can get crazy like with SJWs, but if people don't fight back somehow, shit will stay same, you know? In Japan, there isn't a lot of people that fight for LGBT which is why the situation is what it is there.
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
I wonder what's more important, that Yakuza can continue finding success in the West or that a random sidequest is included in the remaster.

I'm not even denying the "moral argument" of censorship or artistic vision or whatever. If they think the game will sell better over here and find more acceptance without something like this in the game, so be it. I'm not trying to belittle anyone who feels there's an overall push for censorship in Japanese gaming, but really, consider the dilemma I mentioned above.
 

Halo0629

Member
What's wrong with that? Even yakuza games pokes fun at the japanese people or other asian people and as an asian myself I find those funny as hell.
 

angelic

Banned
To be fair, myself as an American think America is easily offended and dumb when it comes to this shit.

Absolutely, we the west are terrible, in 2019, at insisting the world bends to our will over every issue. Not everyone, not you, but a large percentage of the population think the world needs to change to meet their every whim. I blame social media (obviously), phone vote TV shows which makes viewers think they should be able to influence any event, and obviously this rise of the awful SJW culture.

Theres something to be said about western freedom to tattoo your face, have dyed/shaved hair and declare yourself a made up pronoun, but I think there's also something to be said for a society with more regimented discipline and boundaries. I mean if there was suddenly a East/West world war...who do you think will win it, the organisational discipline of the Chinese, or a bunch of stupid haired college campus pansexual hippies in rainbow outfits and ironic pigtails.
 

angelic

Banned
Look, I don't want to start a fight, you don't seem to be an idiot, but I couldn't give a fuck what Japan thinks. Is the west easily offended? Yeah. But we don't like taking anybody's shit, be it someone who is liberal or conservative. In my case, I'm liberal and I don't like it when trans people or anybody else gets mistreated. It can get crazy like with SJWs, but if people don't fight back somehow, shit will stay same, you know? In Japan, there isn't a lot of people that fight for LGBT which is why the situation is what it is there.

I'm not spoiling for a fight either, I see it as a civil discussion, unlike a certain ultra-censoring rival message board. I dont think a fictional videogame sidequest that looks more like a transvestite satire than an actual trans person counts as mistreatment though.
 

Shouta

Member
What I mean though is you dont normalise something by making it sacred from ever being referenced. Maybe the content is tasteless, but some things in the world are just that. It's a videogame being silly, not someone making a serious declaration on the subject. There's too much worrying about perceived offence. I also think it's pretty clear that the Japanese think the west is easily offended and dumb.

You can normalize something without the direct promotion of bad stereotypes. That's likely the reason why this is being removed where other examples of LGBTQ side characters within the Yakuza series have remained. This instance really leans on the "man-in-dress as a predator" thing to fuel the quest. That negative image is a real thing and people are getting hurt by it. The characters also identify themselves as trans in the quest too so it's pretty directly related to trans people. And yes, I meant plural. The quest actually involves identical triplets. They correct Kiryu at the end by saying they are sisters. Ako (Earth Angel mama) in 2/Kiwami 2 is a good example of how the series can handle the characters without portraying them in such a negative manner
 
That mission looks boring and annoying, with the player bumping into all kinds of objects and people on the street, so in that sense I don't think people will be missing out on much...

On the other hand I think it's a bit insane to take something like this so seriously. It's played for laughs and that's totally fine. You should be able to joke a bit about serious subjects too. It's not like trans people are always the butt of the joke in this franchise, right? In that regard I don't think it needed to be removed at all, even if some folks don't like this particular depiction, or even find it offensive.
 

kingwingin

Member
Ive never played it so im not sure what goes on in that mission or the tone of how its presented. Also i’m not sure how genuine that article is in regards to it being transphobic.

Can someone whos played it post quotes from the game? I dont want hunt down cutscenes from google

Edit: just saw that video on the first page. This seems like a whole lot of nothing.
 
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Breakage

Member
“That's (insert identity group here) phobic” is fast becoming the secular version of “that insults Prophet Muhammad”.

Everything increasingly seems to be about feelings in the West. It's as if the slightest discomfort cannot be tolerated. People can no longer laugh at or ignore something; instead, it has to eliminated completely to protect their porcelain-like sense of well being.

You could just imagine the scene at the Yakuza studios:

“Guys, we better take this bit out because some people over there will be outraged and upset and will take to Twitter to complain and shame us.”

The East will be drawing great comfort from the West's growing inability to cope with things that may offend or cause discomfort. It doesn't bode well for the future.
 
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Silent Duck

Member
Seriously? Who looks at a video game and thinks "I feel mistreated by this FICTIONAL VIDEO GAME?"
I do. As a ghost, I am deeply offended by the portrayal of ghosts in Pac-Man. We are not always trying to attack Pac-People for no reason.
I also think it's pretty clear that the Japanese think the west is easily offended and dumb.
I would be offended by that statement... if I wasn’t too dumb to understand what it meant.
giphy.gif
 

Dthomp

Member
I do. As a ghost, I am deeply offended by the portrayal of ghosts in Pac-Man. We are not always trying to attack Pac-People for no reason.

See I know you're just trolling here. Clearly you are a duck, how would you feel if I just took all the Ducks out of Duck Hunt? THINK ABOUT THE DIGITAL DUCKS!!!
 

ISubZBR

Member
I like yakuza series because It's not political correct.
I dont like sjw agenda. Who gets ofended By a simple game, Just make a boycott.

They cut off cigarretes too.
I hate cigarretes, but man... Here lies freedom speech.
 

nkarafo

Member
I thought poking fun to everyone means equality?

I guess people with special needs or privileges have to be excluded.

So the goal is to make trans a normal part of society, and the way to achieve that is to not allow any media to reference it in any way.
Everyone says they want "equality" but in reality they want special treatment.
 
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Senhua

Member
nstead of cutting it they should just rewritten it a bit like not using it in the localisation. I am also curious why his was cut. Because they thought it does not fit to the game or rather because of the recent backlash in he west.
Sam Mullen, localization director at Sega/Atlus :
I would say that the Ryu Ga Gotoku [Yakuza] Studio guys are actually currently very hyper-aware of that. Some of the stuff that we haven't announced or confirmed for the west, like the remasters of 3, 4, and 5, in the Asian and Japanese markets, they did make some content adjustments for that. [Yakuza producer] Nagoshi-san himself has spoken about how back in 2009, attitudes to certain things were different back then. They recognize it and are making adjustments to the content for the remasters.

Yeah, Developer make an adjustment for the global market culture localization AKA: From 3 remaster onward, Yakuza series will be made with Global market in mind .

Thank god, save from several franchises I already done with TV gaming in general so "shrug" carry on. Feel free to make new Kiryu trans or gay for all I care.
 
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AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
Why do you have to ask someone if this is acceptable?

I didn't have to. I just think it makes for a better discussion to involve someone who this sort of stuff affects more than us. Doesn't mean I'm gonna boycott Yakuza or anything crazy,
 

Halo0629

Member
It's funny that people get offended by the lgbt predator but they forgot that there's also a horny straight predator in the game that is always on his underwear by the name of Mr Libido, and he's pretty hilarious. So should straight people be offended by him? Lol! Sjw's should grow thicker skins.
 
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Look, I don't want to start a fight, you don't seem to be an idiot, but I couldn't give a fuck what Japan thinks. Is the west easily offended? Yeah. But we don't like taking anybody's shit, be it someone who is liberal or conservative. In my case, I'm liberal and I don't like it when trans people or anybody else gets mistreated. It can get crazy like with SJWs, but if people don't fight back somehow, shit will stay same, you know? In Japan, there isn't a lot of people that fight for LGBT which is why the situation is what it is there.

How is it in Japan?

Most famous and well paid tv personality is a fat man in a dress and his appearance not part of his entertainment value. There have been cross dressers, and people pretending to be gay for a very long time on tv, way before it was ok to be gay in the west. There is a toilet for non binaries at tokyo station. Do you have those where you are?

Please go on.
 
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McCheese

Member
I hate censorship but watching the clip, that is pretty gross. If they replace it with something better that's cool.
 
Sam Mullen, localization director at Sega/Atlus :
I would say that the Ryu Ga Gotoku [Yakuza] Studio guys are actually currently very hyper-aware of that. Some of the stuff that we haven't announced or confirmed for the west, like the remasters of 3, 4, and 5, in the Asian and Japanese markets, they did make some content adjustments for that. [Yakuza producer] Nagoshi-san himself has spoken about how back in 2009, attitudes to certain things were different back then. They recognize it and are making adjustments to the content for the remasters.

Yeah, Developer make an adjustment for the global market culture localization AKA: From 3 remaster onward, Yakuza series will be made with Global market in mind .

Thank god, save from several franchises I already done with TV gaming in general so "shrug" carry on. Feel free to make new Kiryu trans or gay for all I care.

In other words, they had "the talk" with sony america and "self censored" instead of putting beams of light over the character.
 

nkarafo

Member
It's funny that people get offended by the lgbt predator but they forgot that there's also a horny straight predator in the game that is always on his underwear by the name of Mr Libido, and he's pretty hilarious. So should straight people be offended by him? Lol! Sjw's should grow thicker skins.

Are you kidding? I'm a white straight male and this gif makes me want to play this game right now!
 

Dunki

Member
It's funny that people get offended by the lgbt predator but they forgot that there's also a horny straight predator in the game that is always on his underwear by the name of Mr Libido, and he's pretty hilarious. So should straight people be offended by him? Lol! Sjw's should grow thicker skins.

This is nothing. Kiryu basically got raped in Yakuza 0 after a telephone dating went wrong. And it even looked like a trans person which also was implemented through the manly voice
 

KarkarnRed

Neo Member
I don't believe this scene is supposed to be representative of actual transgender people...yet it may be perceived to be by some, as silly and embarrassing characters such as these have been for decades. These characters are three ineffectual drag queens and one drag king, if the poor dialogue is to be taken seriously.

It's essentially a stupid caricature of vague masculine fears surrounding trans women. I think it's silly and not a great loss to the game overall, I just don't like the precedent.

Maybe now it's a different time, opinions have shifted a bit and through a sort of social osmosis, people are more aware that this is a stupid caricature and not intended as an actual representation of people. I don't like it or find it funny but I don't think it should have been cut,. I suppose I think of it like I do the old Disney films like Dumbo or older warner brothers cartoons. There are some horrible racist caricatures in there too, they don't remove it they just put an explanation at the start that it's a product of a less enlightened time and let you experience the actual product and not a censored version to suit today's sensibilities.
 

PocoJoe

Banned
it is ok to kill & make fun of white straight men in any games, it should be ok to kill and make fun of any group.

this LGPT-movement is just hilarius, they demand to be treated as everybody else, and then they cry about things that are normal to everybody else.

It just makes some people to see them like annoying spoiled brats that want attention because they have problems that they do not want to deal with.

Games, movies and other fictional stuff should have "anything" in them and if someone with low tolerance or low self-esteem gets offended, they can just stop watching it, rather than cry and demand it to be removed from all.

I'm not gonna buy this game now, because I dont want to support this nonsense
 

Kazza

Member
I am really appalled - and sad - to see so many people here advocating for censorship.

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, it's not so much a case of advocating censorship, it's more that this is such a small thing that it hardly seems worth getting upset over. On an anger scale of 1-10 (with 1 be very mildly annoyed, and 10 being the type of fury experienced when someone is trying to harm your family), I'd say this one barely registers as a 1. It's just a silly, and very minor, substory in a 10 year old game. There are a few ways to interpret that Sam Mullen quote, but it sound to me that the Yakuza Team themselves just feel it's a little embarrassing looking back on it for the remaster. If the creators themselves desperately wanted to keep it and were bullied by some campaign, then that would be a different story. I played Yakuza 3 around 2 years ago, and barely remember that substory. It seems hypocritical of me to get outraged about something that I in all likelyhood would never have even noticed was changed when playing the remaster, without someone informing me of the fact beforehand.

A more worrying instance of (potential) censorship is the whole Last Night fiasco. Although we don't exactly know the reason why development seems to have ground to a halt, there's a good chance that the outrage at the developer for saying the story is based in a distopian feminist future is at least partly responsible. If true, then that's a much more egregious example, as it suppresses diversity of narratives in gaming (it gets boring fighting the same nazis and aliens all the time). In that case, my pissed of barometer might get to 4 (I can't imagine any gaming relating matter making me angrier than a 4 tbh).

Increasing censorship is definitely a problem and I don't doubt that there will be many battles ahead. But for this tiny little thing I just think it would be better to keep our gunpowder dry.
 

angelic

Banned
You can normalize something without the direct promotion of bad stereotypes. That's likely the reason why this is being removed where other examples of LGBTQ side characters within the Yakuza series have remained. This instance really leans on the "man-in-dress as a predator" thing to fuel the quest. That negative image is a real thing and people are getting hurt by it. The characters also identify themselves as trans in the quest too so it's pretty directly related to trans people. And yes, I meant plural. The quest actually involves identical triplets. They correct Kiryu at the end by saying they are sisters. Ako (Earth Angel mama) in 2/Kiwami 2 is a good example of how the series can handle the characters without portraying them in such a negative manner

Sorry, no. Normalisation into society means all approaches are allowed, comedy, seriousness, parody, tastelessness. That's how free expression works.
 

angelic

Banned
I thought poking fun to everyone means equality?

I guess people with special needs or privileges have to be excluded.


Everyone says they want "equality" but in reality they want special treatment.

The nail on the head of every radical rights group. Radical feminists, radical trans activists and so on. Equality has been around for years. They don't want it. The mixed signals sent to men, who lets not forget are single minded, simple creatures on the whole, cause complete confusion. Equality equals men entirely giving up chivalry, politeness, opening doors, paying for dates, expecting women to walk home at night alone and so on. Women don't want any of that, and nor should they.

Made me laugh the other day when Martina Navratilova (famous 80s lesbian tennis star) was kicked out of some LGBT group for being "transphobic", by saying that women shouldnt compete in sports against biological men who've transitioned. Of course they shouldnt, the idea is absurd. But this was instantly labelled "transphobic", even though she's LGBT and one of the best sportswomen ever. The era nitwits believe it too...live 30 years as a man, take hormones for 12 months, go into boxing and start knocking women out. Why did no one think of it before.
 
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Fucking hell I remember that quest! The character trys chasing Kiryu at one point and you have to run. Oh man.

That being said I don't believe it to be a deliberate political insult to transgender people. It was intended to be a joke of the context of the game.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
So people get mad when potentially offensive LGBTQ+ material is removed, and they also get mad when some character who wasn't offensive to anyone is revealed as LGBTQ+, like some of Blizzard's characters which led to completely unrelated Blizzard threads filled with snark about it and how Blizzard's game plan is just gonna be more gays and I can't wait to see who else is gay and whatever crap. So, some people apparently want to defend "true equality" vs the "radicals' take on equality" by wanting all the offensive content left in because censorship (as if you really believe that a relatively high budget game is done over true creative freedom and not constantly shaped by market research from day one) but when it comes to inoffensive content of such nature it's a really awful direction for the industry, because who wants that LGBTQ+ shit if it's not to ridicule them. Meh. The analogy with the deranged photo/magazine or whatever horndog is hardly the same unless that guy is one of the only and super rare representations of a straight white male in the game for it to be possible to even begin to imply that's what many/most straight white males are like, duh, lol.
 
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Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
H
Good way to avoid the cost of changing it. I'm sure actual remakes which are animated from scratch wouldn't include those elements in the same way. For a game they can change it much easier than that most of the time. It's also not a game from some bygone era, it's pretty damn recent.
 

Fuz

Banned
I even find extremely stupid to have that warning there. Guess it's the lesser evil, toh.
 
For context:



i can see how it could be offensive/doesnt need to be in the game, but also seems like something a few script tweaks could fix quickly rather than remove it. i guess it opens a can of worms either way, just safer to remove and be done with whatever politics come with it.
 

Aren117

Member
So people get mad when potentially offensive LGBTQ+ material is removed, and they also get mad when some character who wasn't offensive to anyone is revealed as LGBTQ+, like some of Blizzard's characters which led to completely unrelated Blizzard threads filled with snark about it and how Blizzard's game plan is just gonna be more gays and I can't wait to see who else is gay and whatever crap. So, some people apparently want to defend "true equality" vs the "radicals' take on equality" by wanting all the offensive content left in because censorship (as if you really believe that a relatively high budget game is done over true creative freedom and not constantly shaped by market research from day one) but when it comes to inoffensive content of such nature it's a really awful direction for the industry, because who wants that LGBTQ+ shit if it's not to ridicule them. Meh. The analogy with the deranged photo/magazine or whatever horndog is hardly the same unless that guy is one of the only and super rare representations of a straight white male in the game for it to be possible to even begin to imply that's what many/most straight white males are like, duh, lol.

Yeah, this argument of "if you want to be normalized, you have to accept jokes too" lots of users are advocating here is stupid, because the "jokes" are the only representation LGBTQ+ get most of the time.

The white "Walking Erection" dude can be accepted as a joke because there are so many other straight dudes around too. But the transgender "joke"? You don't see transgender NPCs just walking around or something. That NPC from the quest is one of the few in the whole series and they appear like that.

Hell, even an transgender member of this community said it was not ok, but some people must know how to represent a transgender better than her, right? LMAO.
 
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