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[SolidSnakex]

If one of those companies took a hard line against damage then you drop them, its no big loss. Those brands are mostly rubbish and its their loss not to be included in GT5. Now if it was Lamborghini, Ferrari, Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Honda, Nissan etc causing a fuss then you'd have a problem.

It's not that easy. Take Citroen for example, they're actually creating a car specifically for GT5. Now if they were to tell PD they didn't want damage on their cars do you really expect PD to just dump them? For as much as some have hard ons for damage it's much more important for PD to keep good relationships with those manufacturers.

 

[Tideas]

Or you drop them, which makes more sense?

that's what Forza 2 probably did. And it's what Yamauchi does not want to do. So there yar go.

btw, you don't play racing games to experience "damage." you play it to drive the car.

# of cars for a car enthusiast gamer > pathetic notion of "damage"

 

[UntoldDreams]

Or you drop them, which makes more sense?

And if dropping them means you are compromising your design which you don't want to do?
Now what?

I already have your vote:
"Compromise your vision is fine with me."

 

[TEH-CJ]

I GOT GT5!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO ALRIGHT YEAH!!1

 

[Sinnoch]

And if dropping them means you are compromising your design which you don't want to do?
Now what?

I already have your vote:
"Compromise your vision is fine with me."

I'd laugh at any "vision" which would allow some rubbish little brand (lets say Citroen) to block all realistic damage modeling in a sim racer.

Especially when you have Lamborghini, BMW, Ferrari all saying "go right ahead!" The loss of Citroen would be a mighty big blow but I think I'd survive......

 

[Tideas]

I'd laugh at any "vision" which would allow some rubbish little brand (lets say Citroen) to block all realistic damage modeling in a sim racer.

Especially when you have Lamborghini, BMW, Ferrari all saying "go right ahead!" The loss of Citroen would be a mighty big blow but I think I'd survive......

playing the wrong game then my friend. wrong game then.

 

[FightyF]

There was an evolution in damage from Forza 1 to Forza 2, and on the web there are details on how Team 10 had to attempt to twist manufacturer's arms to convince them to go to the next level. For example, in FM1 you had parts hanging off the car, and not falling off. In FM2, parts fells off.

Anyone arguing that no damage is better than having as much damage as car manufacturers allowed, is simply being a partisan fanboy.

There are a few elements we have to look at when it comes to damage. Personally, my primary concern is realistic collision physics, not necessarily damage. But I'm hoping both go hand in hand in any future update to the GT series...

There is:
-The deformation of cars (only affects aerodynamics and wind physics)
-The damage incurred on your suspension, brakes, engine, tires (not the tires themselves, but a crumpled car can rub against them), steering, etc. All affecting performance.
-The ability to roll your vehicle (car manufacturers seem very against this)

Personally I was first hoping for damage affecting performance first, rather than simply having it look like it's damaged. If I were to look at Yamauchi's words alone (rather than reading between the lines), it sounds like he's just going for the physical aspect and not having it affect performance (the PGR series is like this).

BTW I think Land Rover was already sold.

 

[ThirdEye]

The thing about damage that you people never seem to get is this:

COSMETICAL damage (or "small damage") that influences of not the driving is permitted and seen in many games. (like Forza)

The GT5 damage will be "next-gen" damage, they don't want something cosmetic, they want to car to become a pancake if need be. NOW this kind of damage isn't friendly with car manifacturer and that's part of why you've never seen such damage yet in a videogame.

There's even some type of damage you can't even show in movies!!

Where did you get that PD wants real damage? In any case it's nice to finally see naggers who are some other car game fans go away.

 

[UntoldDreams]

I'd laugh at any "vision" which would allow some rubbish little brand (lets say Citroen) to block all realistic damage modeling in a sim racer.

Especially when you have Lamborghini, BMW, Ferrari all saying "go right ahead!" The loss of Citroen would be a mighty big blow but I think I'd survive......

Well that's your choice then.

To be honest I think he should have compromised a bit as well... but I hardly "laugh" at someone who is well known for his design and his obvious success.

I'll leave the laughing to the snarky little posters of GAF who routinely insult respectable people.

 

[UntoldDreams]

There was an evolution in damage from Forza 1 to Forza 2, and on the web there are details on how Team 10 had to attempt to twist manufacturer's arms to convince them to go to the next level. For example, in FM1 you had parts hanging off the car, and not falling off. In FM2, parts fells off.

Anyone arguing that no damage is better than having as much damage as car manufacturers allowed, is simply being a partisan fanboy.

There are a few elements we have to look at when it comes to damage. Personally, my primary concern is realistic collision physics, not necessarily damage. But I'm hoping both go hand in hand in any future update to the GT series...

There is:
-The deformation of cars (only affects aerodynamics and wind physics)
-The damage incurred on your suspension, brakes, engine, tires (not the tires themselves, but a crumpled car can rub against them), steering, etc. All affecting performance.
-The ability to roll your vehicle (car manufacturers seem very against this)

Personally I was first hoping for damage affecting performance first, rather than simply having it look like it's damaged. If I were to look at Yamauchi's words alone (rather than reading between the lines), it sounds like he's just going for the physical aspect and not having it affect performance (the PGR series is like this).

BTW I think Land Rover was already sold.

Honestly... I think GT4 already was pushing the PS2 quite a bit. Throwing in realistic collision physics probably wasn't possible on the PS2 without great compromise to everything else in the game.

 

[Liabe Brave]

I'd laugh at any "vision" which would allow some rubbish little brand (lets say Citroen) to block all realistic damage modeling in a sim racer.

Especially when you have Lamborghini, BMW, Ferrari all saying "go right ahead!" The loss of Citroen would be a mighty big blow but I think I'd survive......

But as already said, the point of GT is to be a driving simulator, not a crashing simulator. For clarity, use this question to see what you actually want. Would it be an okay compromise if GT5 featured absolutely no visible damage whatsoever, but car performance was affected in a completely realistic manner? That is, if you bumper-car your way through a corner, you come out of it with sidesteer, reduced top speed, a blown tire, and messed-up aerodynamics but your car looks pristine.

If that would be fine, then you actually care about the simulation aspect of racing games. If that would be disappointing, then what you really want is to see cars get wrecked; I suggest you get Burnout instead. Of course, a true enthusiast wants both, but you have to be pragmatic. Forza 2 went for the whole shebang, but neither its visual damage nor its gameplay effects are implemented in a fully realistic fashion. For better or worse, that's not the approach Polyphony takes.

 

[twinturbo2]

Actually, the Forza devs have said once you explained you weren't out to DESTROY the car, the manufacturers were quite easy to work with. They didn't have to go through a lot of trouble.

... then how did EA get away with being able to total the car in NFS ProStreet? :kittonwyindifferent.jpg:


Anyways, you know what racer has a good damage model? Daytona USA 2. I'm not fucking kidding, the deformation that the cars can go through is awesome. Dents, dings, paint scrapes, body parts flying off after a crash, the hood flapping in the wind... I swear, I've never seen a more beautiful damage model in a racing game ever. One of the reasons why it still holds up 10 years after its release...

 

[AranhaHunter]

Well, the thing is Yamauchi apparently DOES want to destroy them. And maybe even kill the player in the process.

That's why the man is a legend

 

[AranhaHunter]

If one of those companies took a hard line against damage then you drop them, its no big loss. Those brands are mostly rubbish and its their loss not to be included in GT5. Now if it was Lamborghini, Ferrari, Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Honda, Nissan etc causing a fuss then you'd have a problem.

[as a sidenote most of the brands on your list are part of companies that have no problem with damage, the car brands just haven't made it into other games. You really think Ford has a problem with damage on Mercury cars? Are you serious? Even many of the ones that aren't, RUF, Callaway, Alpine, Tommy Kaira have allowed damage in PGR or Forza. ]

Controlled by Fiat (who also controls Maserati)

 

[Sinnoch]

But as already said, the point of GT is to be a driving simulator, not a crashing simulator. For clarity, use this question to see what you actually want. Would it be an okay compromise if GT5 featured absolutely no visible damage whatsoever, but car performance was affected in a completely realistic manner? That is, if you bumper-car your way through a corner, you come out of it with sidesteer, reduced top speed, a blown tire, and messed-up aerodynamics but your car looks pristine.

If that would be fine, then you actually care about the simulation aspect of racing games. If that would be disappointing, then what you really want is to see cars get wrecked; I suggest you get Burnout instead. Of course, a true enthusiast wants both, but you have to be pragmatic. Forza 2 went for the whole shebang, but neither its visual damage nor its gameplay effects are implemented in a fully realistic fashion. For better or worse, that's not the approach Polyphony takes.

I would be completely fine with that. The whole point of damage isn't for some Burnout style carnage fest, its there so there are proper penalties for poor driving.

When I brake for a turn I don't want the jackass behind me using my rear quarter panel to help him stop and send me spinning off the track. With a damage system, he's going to ruin his chance to win the race (as well as mine). I don't want silly pretend penalty systems and car ghosting, just give me damage penalties and I'd be happy.

 

[Tideas]

I would be completely fine with that. The whole point of damage isn't for some Burnout style carnage fest, its there so there are proper penalties for poor driving.

When I brake for a turn I don't want the jackass behind me using my rear quarter panel to help him stop and send me spinning off the track. With a damage system, he's going to ruin his chance to win the race (as well as mine). I don't want silly pretend penalty systems and car ghosting, just give me damage penalties and I'd be happy.

so you'd be fine if the damage was all internal, and not comestic?

i.e., slam against a wall at 50mph, and you'll be looking at suspension and brake and aerodynamic damage.

But on the outside, car look like clean.

See, Kaz don't want that. And since it's his game, he gets to make it the way HE wants it. The rest of us are just pawns :lol

 

[Sinnoch]

so you'd be fine if the damage was all internal, and not comestic?

i.e., slam against a wall at 50mph, and you'll be looking at suspension and brake and aerodynamic damage.

But on the outside, car look like clean.

See, Kaz don't want that. And since it's his game, he gets to make it the way HE wants it. The rest of us are just pawns :lol

Well of course I'd like to see the damage as well, but in the meantime while they work on that, I'd at least like the internal system in place so the online gameplay doesn't suffer.

Phantom ghost cars doesn't exactly scream realism either does it?

 

[StarEye]

Dropping your average everyday cars from a game like GT would be suicidal. Part of the charm with the game are the everyday cars, like Peugout 206, Citroen Xara, Fiat Punto, Ford Sierra, Toyota Corola etc etc. There's already plenty of games filled to the brim with supercars. GT isn't about having only the best cars in the world available. And I'd wonder how the used cars shop would look like, with only cars like Dodge Vipers, Ferraris, Lamborghinis etc etc available in it.

If they dropped the everyday street car, it wouldn't be Gran Turismo anymore. It would become just like every other game out there, and lose it's identity completely.

 

[greatestjediever]

BTW I think Land Rover was already sold.

Yup, both Jaguar and Land Rover were sold to Tata Motors Ltd. PD should bring in Daewoo from them while they're at it!

 

[Tideas]

Well of course I'd like to see the damage as well, but in the meantime while they work on that, I'd at least like the internal system in place so the online gameplay doesn't suffer.

Phantom ghost cars doesn't exactly scream realism either does it?

online play doesn't suffer though? You hit a wall, you get a time penalty. You can't bump into other people.

I dont' see how that makes it less competitive. Instead, it makes it even more so that ppl can't just be a-hole and bump into other ppl to ruin their race.

 

[Sinnoch]

online play doesn't suffer though? You hit a wall, you get a time penalty. You can't bump into other people.

I dont' see how that makes it less competitive. Instead, it makes it even more so that ppl can't just be a-hole and bump into other ppl to ruin their race.

If there's zero contact (rubbing is racing!) and ghost cars you're not doing much more than time trialing with other people on screen. It takes away the risk and the excitement, I don't want to be coddled so I'm completely safe.

Yeah it sucks getting hit in Forza 2 with damage set to full, but you at least have the satisfaction of knowing he's probably ruined his car as well.

 

[Super_Chicken]

There are a few elements we have to look at when it comes to damage. Personally, my primary concern is realistic collision physics, not necessarily damage. But I'm hoping both go hand in hand in any future update to the GT series...

There is:
-The deformation of cars (only affects aerodynamics and wind physics)
-The damage incurred on your suspension, brakes, engine, tires (not the tires themselves, but a crumpled car can rub against them), steering, etc. All affecting performance.
-The ability to roll your vehicle (car manufacturers seem very against this)

Personally I was first hoping for damage affecting performance first, rather than simply having it look like it's damaged. If I were to look at Yamauchi's words alone (rather than reading between the lines), it sounds like he's just going for the physical aspect and not having it affect performance (the PGR series is like this).

I believe he wanted to do the physics aspect of it. With the visuals following behind. That or do something outrageous with visual damage such as everything flying off.

Also I do believe Ferrari has a huge problem with their cars getting crushed/rolled.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Anyone arguing that no damage is better than having as much damage as car manufacturers allowed, is simply being a partisan fanboy.

Either that or your too dumb to realize that damage has other implications.

The more detail you have in the car the more complicated damage will be, it'll be more demanding on both the PS3 and the developers, the most viable solution would be to downgrade the car model, to that I say, FUCK OFF! Keep damage away from the perfectly modelled cars we all love.


But yeah... it's probably the fanboy thing...
rolleyes.gif

 

[twinturbo2]

Controlled by Fiat (who also controls Maserati)

... and Lancia, and Alfa Romeo, and a few other brands that escape me at the moment...

 

[Ranger X]

Where did you get that PD wants real damage? In any case it's nice to finally see naggers who are some other car game fans go away.

Yamauchi hinted that multiple times. And it was the primary reason why car manifacturers didn't want his game to have this. Yamauchi refuses to have the type of damage you see in other games. He said he wants to do it when i'll be able to do it right, to do it realistically. He's picky with that just as much as with his driving physics. And hopefully in the end its a good thing.

 

[Angelcurio]

"very very soon" to PD it's at least 6 months so dont get too excited

Huh, did the internet ran out of avatar pics?