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[Jburton]

Before we go calling Dawkins a hypocrite, we should step back and examine his statements a little more closely.

The point is that poor recollection of the tricky little stuff is symptomatic of poor understanding of the whole.


This is very, very different from someone who knows the contents of Origin backwards and forwards flubbing its name. Fraser's argument doesn't really hold any water.

This post is hypocritical,

'poor recollection of the tricky little stuff is symptomatic of poor understanding of the whole'


'This is very different from someone who knows the contents of Orgin backwards and forwards flubbing its name'


Seems he his poor recollection of the 'tricky little stuff' is symptomatic of poor understanding of the whole.


Anyway this douche is just as bad in terms of belittling people because of their beliefs as the religious zealots who try the same.

People are free to choose whatever they want to believe in, that is equality .......... if this smug, self righteous and belittling man is indictive of the aetheist movement then they are no better than their opposite numbers.

 

[astroturfing]

Why are so many atheists so defensive (as evidenced by the posts in this thread)... there's no need to be. Attitudes like that are why so many people dislike atheists.

Dawkins made a dumb statement and got called out on it. Good.

many people dislike atheists? weird, i've never met even one person like that in my entire life. never really heard anyone say anything bad about atheists... well except on the internet, but i usually think they're probably not serious. i mean why would anyone dislike a person with no religion??

i guess i'm sheltered from all that rampant anti-atheism because of where i live (i think most are atheist here or if they're religious they stay quiet). i'd feel very odd having someone tell me he or she doesn't like me because i'm an atheist lol. so nonsensical.

 

[Steelrain]

That's funny, after Hitchens died I felt like the Atheist/Critical Thinking community lost it's best advocate. Hitchens could articulate himself on the fly much better than Dawkins and would probably have disregarded Fraser's question entirely without answering it. Dawkins has always seemed to be to be intellectually small but just REALLY GOOD at faking it.

 

[Buxaroo]

marrec why would you want him to quit? Because he takes issues with theocrats? Dawkins and Hitchens weren't this vocal about religion until 9-11. After that, there was a reason to be vocal. Because that showed just how dangerous religion can be when taken literally. And after 9-11, our version of the taliban starting rearing it's head trying to introduce more religion into our secular government and wanting to teach creationism in public schools, etc etc etc. There is a reason why they are doing this. Religious fundamentalism isn't just Islamic you know.

 

[unrenowned]

God probably made him forget. An eye for an eye and all that...

 

[Raist]

Did you guys even read the OP? Dawkins is the one who ascribed importance to being able to recite the name of books, and emphatically declared that he would be able to recite the full title of this one. The other guy is making the point that it is a stupid, unreasonable question.

So you don't see any difference between remembering word by word a 2 sentences long subtitle of a book, and not knowing what is the first book of the bible's new testament?

Dawkins' original question is not stupid or unfair at all. it's quite different. Besides, that wasn't the only thing. It was listed along things such as not even attending church etc. He's got a point, many people especially in the UK label themselves as christians "just because".

 

[Tawpgun]

Christians: 1

Atheists: 0

 

[marrec]

...intellectually small?!

Are you high or crazy? Do you know anything of Dawkins outside of his ability to piss off the religious?

Intellectually small. I've heard it all now.

Oh yes I know of Dawkins actual contributions to science. I said he seemed to be intellectually small, he may not have been but in his ravenous pursuit of denouncing all things Religious he made himself seem small to me and inferior to Hitchens.

 

[RELAYER]

I'm an athiest, but this dude is right. Dawkins' point is empty as hell. People should read the OP rather than saying, "LOL ATHEISM IS DED AMIRITE!???"

Typical knee-jerk GAF tribalism.

 

[AgentP]

The NT is used, read and studied by Christians. No one reads Darwin's book unless they are just reading for historical context, it was outdated 100 years ago and science moves on unlike religion.

 

[Buxaroo]

Christians: 1

Atheists: 0

Maybe if Gaawd was keeping score.

 

[Jburton]

How does this invalidate Dawkin's point? Atheism is not a religion and Darwin/Origin of Species is not our God/Holy Book.

If you believe that the only way to eternal happiness and away from eternal damnation is through following the teachings of Christ then it is a tad more crucial to know your Holy Book.

Thats a gross simplification and is totally false.

I was raised a Catholic, we did not need to know the Bible inside and out, at Mass we hear the teachings of Christ.


No need to know the bible inside out, the core message of Christianity does not rely on knowing the whole book.

 

[Shorty]

preachy atheists are no less annoying than preachy religious people. and dawkins comes off as extremely preachy.

moreover I can't help but feel that his whole agenda is utterly pointless. the world is not magically going to become a better place when belief in god is extinguished in every human being. wars will still be fought. oil and other ressources are motivators of at least equal magnitude compared to religion. plus thanks to the enlightenment of science we now have nuclear weapons to help us kill a lot more of our species in a very short amount of time.

you go dawkins! keep telling those religious nutjobs how wrong they are - I'm sure it will help a great deal.

 

[SUPREME1]

Pretty epic ownage.

 

[Lionheart1337]

many people dislike atheists? weird, i've never met even one person like that in my entire life. never really heard anyone say anything bad about atheists... well except on the internet, but i usually think they're probably not serious. i mean why would anyone dislike a person with no religion??

i guess i'm sheltered from all that rampant anti-atheism because of where i live (i think most are atheist here or if they're religious they stay quiet). i'd feel very odd having someone tell me he or she doesn't like me because i'm an atheist lol. so nonsensical.

Aren't atheists on par with rapists or some shit? That might have something to do with it. Or it could just be atheists being really large douchebags.

 

[Treefingers]

many people dislike atheists? weird, i've never met even one person like that in my entire life. never really heard anyone say anything bad about atheists... well except on the internet, but i usually think they're probably not serious. i mean why would anyone dislike a person with no religion??

i guess i'm sheltered from all that rampant anti-atheism because of where i live (i think most are atheist here or if they're religious they stay quiet). i'd feel very odd having someone tell me he or she doesn't like me because i'm an atheist lol. so nonsensical.

Where do you live? Here in Canada I've met numerous people who dislike atheists. Generally it's a sense of atheists being annoying by pushing their views onto them or somesuch. I imagine in the US it's even worse.

 

[marrec]

By the way, I'm not saying in any way that Dawkins is a simpleton, just that he shouldn't be the face of the Critical Thinking/Atheist movement.

 

[Complex Shadow]

alright now that atheism is dead. time to go back to Hinduism. ill see you all as cats.

 

[SUPREME1]

OH NO!

DAWKINS IS A FALLIBLE MAN!

What ever shall we do?!

Atheism is over. It's done.

Finished.

I see you completely missed the point being made.

 

[Air]

alright now that atheism is dead. time to go back to Hinduism. ill see you all as cats.

Read the thread?

 

[jorma]

This give me a headache. You can still identify as christian regardless of pretty much anything.

I identify myself as a christian protestant and i'm both baptised and confirmed having been raised in a secular christian protestant culture. But i do not believe in god. I am as atheist as they come. These are not mutually exclusive things.

 

[Kalnos]

you go dawkins! keep telling those religious nutjobs how wrong they are - I'm sure it will help a great deal.

I'm not really a fan of his, but I don't think he ever said any of that. He doesn't even care if people are religious, he just wants them to think about it. He wants them to be able to explain why they're religious and why they believe what they do. I think he's against "I'm a Christian because my parents were." or "just because".

 

[Conciliator]

Well his original point was wrong so it's appropriate that he got burnt. But, as I'm sure others have said, that doesn't nullify his life's work, and, even if it did, that wouldn't nullify the legitimacy of atheism, anymore that hundreds of priests raping children makes God not exist. There is only one reason why we think God does not exist.

 

[Steelrain]

Some of these responses in here......



Holy shit they HAVE to be trolls.

 

[marrec]

I'm not really a fan of his, but I don't think he ever said any of that. He doesn't even care if people are religious, he just wants them to think about it. He wants them to be able to explain why they're religious and why they believe what they do. I think he's against "I'm a Christian because my parents were." or "just because".

It's been a few years since I've re-read 'The God Delusion' but I believe he says that exact thing in it.

 

[Atramental]

I see you completely missed the point being made.

I did it for the lulz.

 

[Stinkles]

Falsely conflating memory of a now-outdated scientific work (which has been overtaken hundreds of times) with the word of god?

What the f***?

 

[Air]

Well his original point was wrong so it's appropriate that he got burnt. But, as I'm sure others have said, that doesn't nullify his life's work, and, even if it did, that wouldn't nullify the legitimacy of atheism, anymore that hundreds of priests raping children makes God not exist. There is only one reason why we think God does not exist.

First sentence is fine. Rest of it isn't really relevant. It's not about atheism, it's about the questions you ask to get an accurate answer of what one believes.

EDIT: This thread keeps on giving.

 

[Maleficence]

This give me a headache. You can still identify as christian regardless of pretty much anything.

I identify myself as a christian protestant and i'm both baptised and confirmed having been raised in a secular christian protestant culture. But i do not believe in god. I am as atheist as they come. These are not mutually exclusive things.

Ok, now THIS is nonsense.

You can't genuinely think you can be any sort of Christian and be an Atheist.

Belief in god isn't some random throwaway belief when it comes to religion. It's pretty much central.

Perhaps you identify with the community in some way, but if you are an atheist, you're definitely not christian.

 

[marrec]

Falsely conflating memory of a now-outdated scientific work (which has been overtaken hundreds of times) with the word of god?

What the f***?

This I completely agree with, Dawkins shouldn't have entertained to answer Fraser such a stupid question.

Hitchens wouldn't have answered it.

 

[Mazer Rackham]

was he trolling when he said "oh God"?

 

[Steelrain]

This give me a headache. You can still identify as christian regardless of pretty much anything.

I identify myself as a christian protestant and i'm both baptised and confirmed having been raised in a secular christian protestant culture. But i do not believe in god. I am as atheist as they come. These are not mutually exclusive things.

 

[Orayn]

This post is hypocritical,

'poor recollection of the tricky little stuff is symptomatic of poor understanding of the whole'


'This is very different from someone who knows the contents of Orgin backwards and forwards flubbing its name'


Seems he his poor recollection of the 'tricky little stuff' is symptomatic of poor understanding of the whole.


Anyway this douche is just as bad in terms of belittling people because of their beliefs as the religious zealots who try the same.

People are free to choose whatever they want to believe in, that is equality .......... if this smug, self righteous and belittling man is indictive of the aetheist movement then they are no better than their opposite numbers.

Not quit what I was getting at. My point was that getting the little details wrong can be correlated with not having a thorough understanding of the whole thing. We know that Dawkins understands Origin, and he demonstrates that at length in the rest of his work, so it's not really a strike against him as far as hypocrisy goes.

Officially, I'm a Moravian. Plenty of us atheists are closeted, bro.

 

[Air]

was he trolling when he said "oh God"?

I got a laugh out of that.

 

[astroturfing]

Where do you live? Here in Canada I've met numerous people who dislike atheists. Generally it's a sense of atheists being annoying by pushing their views onto them or somesuch. I imagine in the US it's even worse.

Finland. to be honest though i knew ONE guy in high school who probably disliked atheists, he was a hardcore Christian who hated gays (blamed AIDS on them etc). he never said a bad word about atheists though, so i dunno.

we don't really have many atheists "pushing their views" here because so many are already atheist/agnostic, there is no need. i actually never even mention my own atheism or even think about it (outside GAF). maybe that's why the relatively few religious people don't really say anything bad about atheists; we lack the aggressive atheism that would annoy them.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

Meh... been an atheist since I was 10-11.. some 20+ years.. never have I read or listened to any Dawkins.

 

[Sol..]

To err is human, but to forgive, well that's right on.

--Bill Shakespeare

 

[Atramental]

This give me a headache. You can still identify as christian regardless of pretty much anything.

I identify myself as a christian protestant and i'm both baptised and confirmed having been raised in a secular christian protestant culture. But i do not believe in god. I am as atheist as they come. These are not mutually exclusive things.

I think your headache is contagious because now I have one.

 

[Shorty]

Ok, now THIS is nonsense.

You can't genuinely think you can be any sort of Christian and be an Atheist.

Belief in god isn't some random throwaway belief when it comes to religion. It's pretty much central.

Perhaps you identify with the community in some way, but if you are an atheist, you're definitely not christian.

bolded is exactly what makes him christian. my father and my best friend do not believe in god yet they still identify as muslims. largely because they still practice a lot of the traditions (not eating pork etc.) and because they interact with members of the community a lot.

 

[Stinkles]

The craziest part of this whole thread is the unstated idea or inference that because Dawkins couldn't remember the (full) name of a book, Evolution is wrong, or has lost some authority. And the book about magic Jesus somehow has more credence than it did yesterday.

 

[Kalnos]

The craziest part of this whole thread is the unstated idea or inference that because Dawkins couldn't remember the (full) name of a book, Evolution is wrong, or has lost some authority. And the book about magic Jesus somehow has more credence than it did yesterday.

10 replies to this at least.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

Whether or not Dawkins was right in his assertions about hollow religious practice, his reasoning in this instance was clearly bullshit. At least somebody calls him out on it.

 

[snap0212]

Where do you live? Here in Canada I've met numerous people who dislike atheists. Generally it's a sense of atheists being annoying by pushing their views onto them or somesuch. I imagine in the US it's even worse.

Anecdotal evidence, but I have yet to meet a single person who dislikes atheists. I'm also surprised that I've never actually met anyone who's crazy about religion.

People I know just say "Well, Religion doesn't make any sense, never has and in case I'm wrong, I'll hope for God's mercy". A few of my friends are Muslims and they don't eat pork, pray five times a day and stuff but aren't bothered by anyone who doesn't believe what they believe in.

Germany, by the way.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Ok, now THIS is nonsense.

You can't genuinely think you can be any sort of Christian and be an Atheist.

Belief in god isn't some random throwaway belief when it comes to religion. It's pretty much central.

Perhaps you identify with the community in some way, but if you are an atheist, you're definitely not christian.

I kind of understand it. For instance, I'm a baptized, confirmed Catholic who went to Catholic school, and yet I don't believe in God. However, it almost becomes like questioning whether someone being Jewish refers to their genetics or their chosen faith. I don't go to Church, I eat meat on Fridays during Lent, and I don't believe in God. However, some people see it more as a biographical fact. You were raised Catholic, therefore you're Catholic.

And in some ways, I do identify with the non-religious aspects of it. "Is there going to be booze at your wedding?" "Are you kidding? We're Catholic! Of course there's going to be booze!"

 

[Staccat0]

I would actually agree with you. As a K - 12 Catholic school educated agnostic/atheist/whatever, I really don't think reading the Bible cover to cover is very important. If you want to be a scholar on the topic, then yeah, you should probably read that. However, as it pertains to an individual's spirituality, you're probably fine just sticking to your Church's sermons or whatever for guidance. Given the different translations and emphasis on just how literally one should take the "truth" of the Bible to be, actually reading the thing is hardly paramount to the faith.

Much better put than how I phrased it.

 

[ColtraineGF]

The craziest part of this whole thread is the unstated idea or inference that because Dawkins couldn't remember the (full) name of a book, Evolution is wrong, or has lost some authority. And the book about magic Jesus somehow has more credence than it did yesterday.

Or how about reading the thread, or even the opening post, to determine that it isn't about that.

 

[jorma]

bolded is exactly what makes him christian. my father and my best friend do not believe in god yet they still identify as muslims. largely because they still practice a lot of the traditions (not eating pork etc.) and because they interact with members of the community a lot.

Yup. It's a cultural thing. I'll have a christian funeral as well, but i hope i don't have to do a church wedding, still i won't really mind if my future wife demands one.

 

[JJD]

The craziest part of this whole thread is the unstated idea or inference that because Dawkins couldn't remember the (full) name of a book, Evolution is wrong, or has lost some authority. And the book about magic Jesus somehow has more credence than it did yesterday.

Who said that? I mean seriously said that, not the ones intentionally trolling.

 

[Shorty]

Anecdotal evidence, but I have yet to meet a single person who dislikes atheists. I'm also surprised that I've never actually met anyone who's crazy about religion.

People I know just say "Well, Religion doesn't make any sense, never has and in case I'm wrong, I'll hope for God's mercy". A few of my friends are Muslims and they don't eat pork, pray five times a day and stuff but aren't bothered by anyone who doesn't believe what they believe in.

Germany, by the way.

internet hi-5. same country, same experience. oh germany - you so progressive

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

bolded is exactly what makes him christian. my father and my best friend do not believe in god yet they still identify as muslims. largely because they still practice a lot of the traditions (not eating pork etc.) and because they interact with members of the community a lot.

You can redefine words for your own use if you want.. but don't expect the rest of the world to comply.

You can't actually be Christian or Muslim and not believe in God, by the accepted definition society uses for those terms.

Does that take away from your father being a Muslim? Yes. Because he's not a Muslim (using actual agreed upon human language)