Zen_Arcade
Banned
That's our point. If your overall message falls apart when you examine the story more then it's not doing a very good job at teaching you a lesson.
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Your thoughts on this comic making the rounds at Reddit?
- Thread starter MrOogieBoogie
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Using "what ifs" to discredit the idea of these kinds of messages is utterly ridiculous.
I wanted to join the army when I was younger, but my life-long disease prevented me from even applying. I had to re-adjust, and find another goal to chase.
Also not everything is for everyone. This kind of message is lost on you, that's fine, for many it will be a positive boon.
Just because it does nothing for you doesn't mean it doesn't have value to others. This isn't something the entire planet will read and suddenly every single person will start chasing their dreams, and it doesn't need to be that to have value.
It doesn't fall apart.
You not getting it, or you being offended by the guy's specific dream, the fact it has no value to you doesn't mean it has no value to others.
Alex Stroud
Banned
Gotta say that guy had an extreme amount of luck on his side. I would've made to El Paso before turning back. My head is better on my shoulders instead of sawn off by a cartel.
ZackieChan
Member
Most of Gaf is a lost cause. They complain about the system being against them, but don't want to try doing anything that may be against that system.
I've been nomadic for nearly 3 years. I have clients and friends that are nomadic. We all "contribute" to society in some way and have "responsibilities." It's awesome. I know people with families that live like this. I know people of various races and genders that do this. Y'all are some negative mofos.
Indeed.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Why would it be ridiculous? You said yourself that it's supposed to send a general message for people to relate to. I'd say that if it's aiming to do that, applying people's personal situation is a great way to determine if it works or not.
I don't think it's going to have much value to most people trying to chase their dreams. That's the point I've been making this entire time. His dream is so wildly removed from the average persons dream that after you get past the general lesson of "Follow your dream" you realize that the story isn't really applicable to you at all.
Honestly, your short two sentence story is more uplifting and educational than one of a guy who constantly risks his life until he succedes in killing himself along with an innocent friend.
Using "what ifs" this way is always ridiculous. What if could happen any time, they're utterly pointless ways to discredit an idea.
This is a very simple concept, Zen.
The story is a delivery system for the message.
The story itself is merely an example, the important part is the message.
The fact the guy's personal dream was unique doesn't lessen the message at all. Most people will be smart enough to know the guy's personal story and dream has no bearing on them, and be able to extrapolate the message and apply it to their own lives.
Two things:
1. We don't know his friend, nor his friend's role in the stunt.
2. The killing himself part is utterly irrelevant to the story contained within the comic. "find a way to live your life that makes you happy before it's too late".
So the way he was happy was to take more extreme risks than most. So what? He obviously did what he wanted to do.
As I said before, what if your dream is to be the world's best free climber? This guy is risking death every single time he climbs, yet he wouldn't stop. It's how he finds purpose.
To you it may seem foolish, but to him it's happiness.
I did some (really casual) backpacking myself, but I'm pretty sure that if I tried to be as hardcore as this guy (and I mean that as a compliment) I'd wind up bound to a chair in some rundown hotel room in Buenos Aires with someone poking me with a knife to extract my credit card details from me
it's pretty amazing that he made it back alive, even if it was only for a short time and kind of self-inflicted
it's pretty amazing that he made it back alive, even if it was only for a short time and kind of self-inflicted
I remember seeing white people with dreads begging in Oaxaca Mexico.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
First off, this is not a what if. I'm explaining my situation to you to point out how "Chase your dream." is generally an empty platitude. It's about as useful as "Be yourself." It's not that simple.
And as for the bolded, my whole point is that a lot of people aren't going to see how this applies to their lives. It's not relatable, and people find inspiration in things that are relatable. The message is nice in a Saturday Morning Cartoon type of way, but completely unrelatable to a lot of people when they try to apply it to their current situation and wants.
The only reason it's inspirational is because he succeeded in getting his dream. When you realize that his dream is not only nothing like yours, but also something almost anyone could do, it falls flat.
It is that simple.
The fact it can't apply to everyone doesn't mean it has no value.
Not everything can apply to everyone.
Oh, and you most definitely should "be yourself"!
Yes, it is!
The details of the guy's specific dream don't matter /at all/. What's important is the notion that life could pass you by before you do the things you've always wanted to do.
This is a very, very simple message and one that is easily applicable to many people.
No, it doesn't.
It falls flat for /you/ apparently, it doesn't for me (the message has value to me, the comic itself isn't great), and plenty of others.
biggersmaller
Banned
I'm a lost cause because I don't believe that intentional homelessness is a virtue and is insulting to people who would literally kill for his opportunities? Or because I criticize a disingenuous comic published on the fucking internet via device made possible by people who apparently lack a soul?
ZackieChan
Member
I think I may be in love with you
I'm not sure how adding a "what if his friend made him do the fatal stunt" helps that story out.
Regarding free climbing, I had a brother in law who took to skydiving, became practically addicted to it and ended up dead in a wheat field with an experimental wing suit, so no, I'm not too fond on promoting high risk recreation. Risking ones life is exciting and can give the person a powerful high, but the comic is trying to present an argument about not wasting your life, yet when the subject consistently shows little concern for his life, the argument falls apart.
People can do what they want and follow their dreams, but I don't believe the comic makes a very persuasive case for that. The people that I know who succeeded in following their dreams to be musicians, artists and writers, had plans, made sacrifices and put in long hours of hard work to claw out their own niche.
*Blushes*
When life gives you lemons squeeze the juice all over your neogaf posts.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
No it's not. Human lives are far too complex for that. If it WERE that simple then this WOULD apply to everyone. Be yourself is the dumbest advice you can give. It totally ignores social standards and the reality of the situation. If someone is an asshole they should very much NOT be themselves. Sometimes changing what you are is far more helpful then stubbornly staying your course.
Yes, I understand the message. What you don't seem to understand is that sometimes life prevents and sidetracks you from getting to your dream, and spouting out things like "Chase your dream." totally ignores these situations. There are a lot of people in situations like or similar to mine and generic messages like this ring hollow to those people.
Also, I think it should be pretty obvious that when I say it falls flat, I mean it falls flat for me.
quickwhips
Member
Shit is dumb. What did he accomplish?
The details of his death are irrelevant to the comic. The comic is self-contained. The story is the delivery system for the message.
The story could be anything, it could be an entirely made up tale.
The author made this because (s)he found some inspirational value in it, it's not as complicated as many of you are making it.
You're not, your brother in law was. He lived his life how he wanted, and he died doing what made him happy.
Sorry for your loss, but he was doing the right thing for him.
Nothing falls apart. This is an extremely personal thing. Some people need to live their lives taking these kinds of risks to be happy. This seems utterly absurd to you, and that's fair, but it doesn't mean they lived their lives "incorrectly".
you really should try to understand that.
Again, the comic isn't going to inspire everyone. That would be impossible.
And the guy did put a shit tonne of hard work into getting to the amazon. just because he upped and left with what some of you perceive as "little care" doesn't mean he didn't struggle very hard to get where he did. In fact, even though the story doesn't go into details about them (it doesn't have to), it's clear he did indeed go through some pretty harsh struggles but it was worth it because he eventually realised his dream and he did it the way he wanted to.
And I think it should be pretty obvious that plenty of people ITT get value from this comic, and no matter how much you want it to be worthless it very clearly isn't.
Again: this clearly wasn't meant for you, not everything is meant for everybody.
He lived his life in a way that made him happy?
It seems if he hadn't he may have lived longer, but he would probably have been miserable.
To you that seems like a no-brainer, but it probably did to him too.
Hierophant
Banned
props to this guy for having the adventure that ill probably never have (maybe one day)
I'm done. No he wasn't, he recklessly threw away his life leaving behind a crushed and grieving family.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
I still maintain we would have never heard or cared about Amazon dude or his dreams had it not been for the fact he's dead.
flamingotripod
Member
Enjoying his life? Accomplishing his lifelong goals of travelling the amazon?
Zen_Arcade
Banned
That's the problem. It was supposed to be made for everyone. It was made as a generic message that people were supposed to learn a lesson from. You said it yourself, people are supposed to ignore the base story and learn a general lesson.
He made his choices though, just as many other people do who take up risky lifestyles. Extreme sports enthusiasts, free climbers, explorers, etc... they live their lives the way they want to live, we can't change that about them as unfortunate as that may be for many.
Nothing is made for everyone. nothing possibly can be.
A story with a message is made because the author felt inspired. The story is shared.Some get it, some don't.
See above.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
You said yourself that it was supposed to be so general that it could give inspiration to everyone. Now you're saying that it can't possibly apply to everyone.
Honestly if you want to learn lessons from generic platitudes that's fine. But I highly doubt anything as simple as "Chase your dream." inspired you through your hardships to where you are today. There were almost definitely other lessons you learned that shaped your situation far more than something as generic as "Chase your dream."
Question:
Would some of the positive responses in here be so receptive if the comic was about a random overweight dude giving up his responsibilities and taking out a $1200 CC loan so he could eat junk food all day and follow his dream of playing alone and getting really good at some MMO he's wanted to play since he was kid? Finally, he eventually succumbs to his own quest for madness as he dies of a heart attack from deep vein thrombosis?
Would some of the positive responses in here be so receptive if the comic was about a random overweight dude giving up his responsibilities and taking out a $1200 CC loan so he could eat junk food all day and follow his dream of playing alone and getting really good at some MMO he's wanted to play since he was kid? Finally, he eventually succumbs to his own quest for madness as he dies of a heart attack from deep vein thrombosis?
He still wasn't "contributing" so you'd still get the rowdy responses.
flintstryker
Banned
Part of the reason I think so many is down on this message is that somewhere deep down they know there's a hint of truth to it, some may hate their jobs and the monotony of their current life but is afraid or unwilling to do anything about it so whenever someone posts something like this they scramble for anything possibly to discredit the person and the message, HE'S PRIVILEGED, I CAN'T DO IT BECAUSE I'M BLACK/FEMALE, THE MESSAGE IS CONDESCENDING, HE CONTRIBUTES NOTHING TO SOCIETY, HE'S STUPID! All excuses made rather than just admitting that you're largely afraid to take the same kinda risk and you know that that's absolutely fine but don't shit and those who do, the world we have now is as much a result of those who were complicit and stick to their mundane life as much as those who went out and did extraordinary and sometimes stupid shit.
One of the reason as a Black Man I love this quote so much:
Up to a point a persons life is shaped by environment, heredity, and changes in the world about them. Then there comes a time when it lies within their grasp to shape the clay of their life into the sort of thing they wish it to be. Only the weak blame parents, their race, their times, lack of good fortune or the quirks of fate. Everyone has the power to say, "This I am today. That I shall be tomorrow.
― Louis L'Amour, The Walking Drum
One of the reason as a Black Man I love this quote so much:
Up to a point a persons life is shaped by environment, heredity, and changes in the world about them. Then there comes a time when it lies within their grasp to shape the clay of their life into the sort of thing they wish it to be. Only the weak blame parents, their race, their times, lack of good fortune or the quirks of fate. Everyone has the power to say, "This I am today. That I shall be tomorrow.
― Louis L'Amour, The Walking Drum
You're confused about what I wrote.
Obviously.
Every little helps, though.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
Spend enough time in a prison and you learn to love it.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Do you think you would have still had the motivation to chase your dream if no one ever told you to? Do you think you would have stayed in your rut if the phrase never made it's way into your life?
Zen_Arcade
Banned
You're kind of proving my point that phrases like that have no value.
I don't believe that I am.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Well you're not really providing any reason why it did.
flintstryker
Banned
You seem to not realize that everyone will react in different ways to the same message, one man may see that and have a EUREKA! moment and another would just carry on as usual.
thecouncil
Banned
"You're not really living unless you've been to the moon." - Buzz Aldrin
easy way for airlines to sell flights and booze companies to sell foreign beer
Exactly.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
He doesn't have to react the same way as me, but when he literally says "Who knows?" when I ask if the phrase was integral in his success it doesn't really lend any credence to the idea that it was valuable and helpful.
I don't need to. The person you just quoted explained it perfectly for you.
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