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[Holy Order Sol]

I agree with you but I'm just wondering what you think are the core fundamentals of Zelda since you don't believe that the structural level (I imagine you mean Overworld/dungeons) is part of this?

See, the fanbase is divided over this too.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Like Windwaker? We can all agree on it being a beautiful looking game, but we can also agree it was rushed. 2 temples were cut from the game and they added on a terribad triforce finding fetch quest at the end.

Wind Waker was close to being a stellar game.

But the lack of content you described makes it more frustrating because it could have been THAT good.

I thought the trailers for Wind Waker were much more exciting than Skyward Sword's but I guess I took to the style of Wind Waker right away and it's taking some time to figure out where this new game is going.

I guess I just have faith that they know what they are doing with the style and more importantly the game design.

If the trailer at E3 is forgettable, then maybe I will be concerned.

If the game is long, it should be really cool.

 

[ksamedi]

the structural changes could be even less dramatic than majora's mask, and certainly less divisive. to me, MARIO GALAXY stands as a great example of how to take an old design and make it feel completely new and unique while still maintaining the spirit of what you're working with. if MG didn't exist, i actually think it would be harder to imagine what i mean, but you've got this very tangible example of exactly what i'm talking about coming from the very company that produces zelda.

So what kind of structural changes do you exactly mean in MG? You still collect stars and it still feels like a platformer/advanture hybrid. The only element they added was gravity which opened up great possibilities for level design.

I think with Skyward Sword, you will still collect hearts and go trough dungeons but with the added element of motion plus, the level design possibilities hugely expand. I really don't see that much of a difference with this comparison.

 

[Drone-Arms]

HOPE = PIPE DREAMS = STILL FUCKIN' HOPING ANYWAY

I'd like to think there is a reason we are NOT being shown the overworld. World Scale; as in epic is something they felt they tried to do with TP IIRC but felt they never got it right... I'm paraphrasing back there, but I hope the overworld is epic in scale of not just landmass but architecture/nature as well.

I also feel the fact that WoW was referenced as so impressive to Nintendo during the GDC conference along with Miyamoto working on something for ALL zelda fans to enjoy. I am reading (and by reading I mean hoping) that we will get a Zelda MMORPG sometime soon and if so the WiiHD better be upscaling/anti-aliasing on backward compatilbility better than the PoS API/Hardware of the Wii does, even the Gamecube alaised better than the Wii, and don't give me that shit about 2 gamecubes = Wii, that's bollocks, the hardware/api has clearly been modified to the point where the performance hit of AA is too much of a drain on the wii vs the Gamecube. Show me any games on the Wii with aliasing as good (and performance) as Rogue Squadron or FZero on the Cube. 2 x gamecubes my ass. Utter bollocks. Bah! I went OT in my own post but fuck it.

HOPE!

 

[FunkyPajamas]

 

[Holy Order Sol]

.

Dude that kind of rambling isn't much better than what's been going on around here up until now... seriously what the hell?

As for Mario Galaxy, I've always found that what was great about it was the consistence in quality in terms of execution, whether it reused concepts or introduced new ones. That's what matters most to me, I'm not looking for freshness everywhere as a primary concern or anything.

 

[beelzebozo]

I agree with you but I'm just wondering what you think are the core fundamentals of Zelda since you don't believe that the structural level (I imagine you mean Overworld/dungeons) is part of this?

i think it's very multifaceted. the question that needs to be asked is "what feeling are we trying to evoke when we put this part of the game in?" so, sailing for example. what did sailing do for WIND WAKER? though a far from perfect game, and a far from perfect mechanic, it set the game apart because it gave it a sense of vastness, openness, of venturing out that i think has been otherwise absent. that was a very clever way to address the goal of making the player feel like they were on a huge journey, and that they had a hand in deciding where that journey would take them.

rather than asking, "what sensation are we trying to evoke?" and then navigating new ways to the answer (adventure, scale, discovery, empowerment), it's an easy thing to take the already present ways of reaching those sensations and iterating on them.

this is all very abstract, and i apologize. but it's actually very all-encompassing. something as small as a dynamic camera that is trained to give breathtaking views of key points in the game can contribute to this a great deal. something like sailing, or flying, these are things that seem to open the game up and give it a sense of being larger than it really is. new items which facilitate that "opening up" are also key.

i don't know. i'm speaking in theory. but i think there's an ounce of truth in it.

 

[The Lamp]

I'm going to dig this thread up come launch. There's going to be some sweet, sweet crow.

 

[Zilch]

Nothing about the actual game will change the fact that the trailer Nintendo showed yesterday was disappointing, though.

 

[The Lamp]

Nothing about the actual game will change the fact that the trailer Nintendo showed yesterday was disappointing, though.

Maybe, but depends on what you want or were expecting.

 

[[Nintex]]

The problem is that this is a trailer without context. This footage would've worked as short snippets in an Iwata Asks article discussing the various ways the Motion Plus adds to Zelda. These scenes are pretty much worthless in trailer form.

 

[beelzebozo]

The problem is that this is a trailer without context. This footage would've worked as short snippets in an Iwata Asks article discussing the various ways the Motion Plus adds to Zelda. These scenes are pretty much worthless in trailer form.

yes. it was a nontrailer, like a supplemental featurette from a dvd describing the martial arts style used in an action movie.

 

[BGBW]

The problem seems to be that this Zelda has had so much speculation that people want answers. This "trailer" didn't really answer anything so we've all gone mad with anticipation.

It's the opposite of Twilight Princess. There they showed too much to get us excited so many were underwhelmed. Now they show too little so our imaginations fill out the gaps and we get underwhelmed.

 

[jax (old)]

Now they show too little so our imaginations fill out the gaps and we get underwhelmed.

They showed a lot. Expect its 2011, and its wii level graphics, pastel colours and more of the same in terms of gameplay (with waggle thrown in). And of course, what looks like god awful villian design.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

The problem seems to be that this Zelda has had so much speculation that people want answers. This "trailer" didn't really answer anything so we've all gone mad with anticipation.

It's the opposite of Twilight Princess. There they showed too much to get us excited so many were underwhelmed. Now they show too little so our imaginations fill out the gaps and we get underwhelmed.

I'd actually say Twilight Princess had more questions, it's just that they were answering one or two in the trailer while teasing us with more to keep us wondering. Also the TP trailers many of us used our imagination to fill in the gaps and figure out how the game flows and by the time the game is released we're dissapointed because the trailers seemed to give off a completely different vibe than the product we got.

 

[farnham]

I'd actually say Twilight Princess had more questions, it's just that they were answering one or two in the trailer while teasing us with more to keep us wondering. Also the TP trailers many of us used our imagination to fill in the gaps and figure out how the game flows and by the time the game is released we're dissapointed because the trailers seemed to give off a completely different vibe than the product we got.

i kinda agree to this

while TP was the best 3D zelda game to date in my opinion the game itself felt very "brown" and "colorless" while the trailers demonstrated a very rich and colorful palette being used.

 

[heringer]

I was kinda meh after I watching the trailer in the streaming, but watching again in that IGN Rewind Theater is like night and day. Game looks great.

 

[Vinci]

I'd actually say Twilight Princess had more questions, it's just that they were answering one or two in the trailer while teasing us with more to keep us wondering. Also the TP trailers many of us used our imagination to fill in the gaps and figure out how the game flows and by the time the game is released we're dissapointed because the trailers seemed to give off a completely different vibe than the product we got.

This is actually very accurate. Personally, I haven't enjoyed a 3D Zelda other than MM, so I don't have too much trouble with this trailer. At least it appears different and is being showcased in a different way.

At this point, different Zelda (for me) is better Zelda.

 

[Bit-Bit]

People being underwhelmed about this Zelda might actually be a good thing. The game will just blow you away that much more when you play it.

 

[From The Dust]

interesting thing in that IGN mentioned is the mechanical things in one dungeon. so somewhere is Hyrule (or the sky) will be quite technologically advance. kinda like the Gorons in TP. it doesn't seem to be a fire dungeon either

 

[daffy]

Can't wait till we hear more info about the Sword girl. I think she is the key to this disappointing looking puzzle.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

People being underwhelmed about this Zelda might actually be a good thing. The game will just blow you away that much more when you play it.

This assumes people are not incredibly stubborn. You already have people saying that, unless the E3 trailer blows them away, they will decide the game is shit.

 

[Dr.Hadji]

Why didnt they use the Tokyo team for this?? its clear they needed a new interesting twist so why not giving it to the team that actually reinvented mario?

Because the Tokyo team wasn't given Mario and then innovated from there. They were given a new idea and was told to make it fun, then into a game. Pretty much the same as every other Nintendo gameplay innovation. They start with the ideas and then make the game. Not to take away from Koizumi and his team but they didn't make Mario anew. Nintendo (team Tokyo being part of Nintendo) did.

Same thing goes for Retro. Many of the things you love (or hate) about Prime came from NoJ upper brass. So when Miyamoto says I like this new motion plus, put it in the new Zelda. The creative process is no different than what Prime and Galaxy had to go through.

 

[From The Dust]

Captian Obvious: more details at E3

http://uk.kotaku.com/5774808/next-wii-zelda-looking-unlikely-before-june

 

[Hobbestetrician]

honest question: I see a lot of people on here and elsewhere saying that they are getting away from what makes Zelda 'Zelda' in either too much focus on puzzles, combat, dungeons, whatever. To you, what makes Zelda the series we all go crazy over like this? What are the most important aspects of the game to you?

 

[ShockingAlberto]

honest question: I see a lot of people on here and elsewhere saying that they are getting away from what makes Zelda 'Zelda' in either too much focus on puzzles, combat, dungeons, whatever. To you, what makes Zelda the series we all go crazy over like this? What are the most important aspects of the game to you?

I'm not one of those people, but to me, a Zelda game is a game with dungeons, items, and good puzzles and called Zelda.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

okay, that looks nothing like majora, you people are crazy

The newly designed character seems to go in this direction. I mean: I think people think that.

Spoiler

I do not

 

[MYE]

They showed a lot. Expect its 2011, and its wii level graphics, pastel colours and more of the same in terms of gameplay (with waggle thrown in). And of course, what looks like god awful villian design.

Waggle?
Really?

 

[Cygnus X-1]

I think this character's fate is to become to most known in the Zelda universe if things keep going this way. LOL.

 

[Vinci]

honest question: I see a lot of people on here and elsewhere saying that they are getting away from what makes Zelda 'Zelda' in either too much focus on puzzles, combat, dungeons, whatever. To you, what makes Zelda the series we all go crazy over like this? What are the most important aspects of the game to you?

Pretty much whatever Miyamoto says is Zelda. Despite my distaste for OoT and the other 3D Zelda games, I still have no trouble saying that they are Zelda titles. They just happen to be ones I don't like.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

People are confusing Skullkid wearing Majora's Mask, with Majora him/herself. That IGN Trailer compares the new 'emo' looking character as a possible Vaati, but I think the Idea of all the great Swords from Zelda Games, in Humanoid form is fascinating, and plausible, that character being the personification of the Gilded Sword.

 

[daakusedo]

Well, he/she looks like a malicious Impa, nothing really shocking.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Pretty much whatever Miyamoto says is Zelda. Despite my distaste for OoT and the other 3D Zelda games, I still have no trouble saying that they are Zelda titles. They just happen to be ones I don't like.

I am ok with giving some series to other companies to reinvigorate but not Zelda.

There have been some that say Retro should take a hack at it but I think that's a bad idea.

They could likely make a badass adventure game but I wouldn't want them to use the Zelda characters, etc...

 

[Nostalgic Nightmare]

honest question: I see a lot of people on here and elsewhere saying that they are getting away from what makes Zelda 'Zelda' in either too much focus on puzzles, combat, dungeons, whatever. To you, what makes Zelda the series we all go crazy over like this? What are the most important aspects of the game to you?

Zelda on the console side really hasn't changed too much at its core, and that's a good thing.
What the game has become though is another topic. The game basically holds your hand, is too easy and when you're trying to stick to a formula about exploration, thwarting evil, and dungeons, this is all diminished as a result.
I think that Demons Souls took over in giving a current gen zelda(ish) I and II in the fact that there was no hand holding, you had to talk to people to get info, and the dungeons felt like dungeons. It seems like Zelda is going to continue trending towards less challenge, and more accessibility due to the nature of the Wii console and its family orientations. I'm sure the game will be great, but to me, the important parts are slowly being whittled away in exchange for a wider audience.

 

[Tathanen]

People are confusing Skullkid wearing Majora's Mask, with Majora him/herself. That IGN Trailer compares the new 'emo' looking character as a possible Vaati, but I think the Idea of all the great Swords from Zelda Games, in Humanoid form is fascinating, and plausible, that character being the personification of the Gilded Sword.

Yes but the guilded sword stuff makes no sense. The Master Sword, that's a sword that's always been that way (unless the plot of this game switches it up which I'm sure it will) but the guilded sword? It was the razor sword, forged by dudes into another sword. It didn't EXIST before it was forged in that game. Now if this took place after Majora's Mask and all the swords came to life somehow then uh okay sure but it's pretty clear it's a pre-OOT game. The guilded sword doesn't yet exist, and when it's finally made, it's just forged like any other sword. There is no magical Master Sword consciousness there.

 

[WillyFive]

Yes but the guilded sword stuff makes no sense. The Master Sword, that's a sword that's always been that way (unless the plot of this game switches it up which I'm sure it will) but the guilded sword? It was the razor sword, forged by dudes into another sword. It didn't EXIST before it was forged in that game. Now if this took place after Majora's Mask and all the swords came to life somehow then uh okay sure but it's pretty clear it's a pre-OOT game. The guilded sword doesn't yet exist, and when it's finally made, it's just forged like any other sword. There is no magical Master Sword consciousness there.

Everything in the Zelda games have generations. They repeat through each era, they have descendants, even if they didn't come directly from each other, as Wind Waker showed.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Yes but the guilded sword stuff makes no sense. The Master Sword, that's a sword that's always been that way (unless the plot of this game switches it up which I'm sure it will) but the guilded sword? It was the razor sword, forged by dudes into another sword. It didn't EXIST before it was forged in that game. Now if this took place after Majora's Mask and all the swords came to life somehow then uh okay sure but it's pretty clear it's a pre-OOT game. The guilded sword doesn't yet exist, and when it's finally made, it's just forged like any other sword. There is no magical Master Sword consciousness there.

UNLESS THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO THINK

 

[Bisnic]

Captian Obvious: more details at E3

http://uk.kotaku.com/5774808/next-wii-zelda-looking-unlikely-before-june

Zelda OOT 3DS at the beginning of summer and Zelda SS at the end of summer. A summer full of Zelda goodness.

BELIEVE.

 

[Tathanen]

Everything in the Zelda games have generations. They repeat through each era, they have descendants, even if they didn't come directly from each other, as Wind Waker showed.

Okay if this series goes from having generational versions of nearly every character to having generational versions of the Named Swords I quit forever.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

Is it acceptable to like TP now, GAF?

The problem of Twilight Princess was not it's artistical design, it was not the graphical engine and it was even not the gameplay in the end (quite dated, but still very good on GC. A little less on Wii).

The problem was that it was BORING. (Dungeon - boss - overworld) n-times. Come on boy, I was really frustrated after Gerudo's desert. Otherwise it would have surely be much more enjoyable.

This game seem to suffer the opposite problem: looks "bland, uninspired, washed out and generic". And artistically we can clearly see that the work behind the environments is of an order of magnitude behind TP.
But maybe it will turn out to be extremely enjoyable, ironically. Controls seem to be great. Music will be orchestrated and at least seem not to be again recycled (this is a big pro IMHO).

Sure, I would prefer to have both. Everyone here would. Just let the team work on the game some more and things could be adjusted. This game have to reach at least the graphical quality of Galaxy 2.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

This game seem to suffer the opposite problem: looks "bland, uninspired, washed out and generic". And artistically we can clearly see that the work behind the environments is of an order of magnitude behind TP.

I don't agree with any of this.

 

[Vinci]

I am ok with giving some series to other companies to reinvigorate but not Zelda.

There have been some that say Retro should take a hack at it but I think that's a bad idea.

They could likely make a badass adventure game but I wouldn't want them to use the Zelda characters, etc...

I don't have any problem with Retro doing a Zelda. As others have mentioned, Nintendo would give them an outline of what they want, and Retro would do their best to deliver it. Frankly, I think they'd do a fine job.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

I don't agree with any of this.

I think at least for me that looks can be deceiving, I have this feeling the art style is totally going to click with me once the game is out.

It has something going on for sure, I just can't wrap my head around it yet.

It's not blind faith in the developers, it's moreso an an unassuredness of what's in front of me.

When the first trailer hit, I was like "what a boring style" and then I gave it some thought and saw it more and I was like "interesting...".

It's a mystery to me while some write it off as being boring and sparse.

I can't.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

I don't have any problem with Retro doing a Zelda. As others have mentioned, Nintendo would give them an outline of what they want, and Retro would do their best to deliver it. Frankly, I think they'd do a fine job.

I just think of Donkey Kong Returns in this respect, it has everything the originals had and more but when some say it feels sterile or lacking in the charm and personality of the original series, I can't totally disagree.

I got past that easily though because the game was brilliantly designed.

 

[Kurtofan]

Tingle better be in this or there will be blood!

 

[Jocchan]

I know there's a big deal of subjectivity with art, different people can love or hate different artstyles.

But I fail to see how the one used for SS is bland, boring, uninspired or generic, in any way. I'd understand completely if people said they were wishing for a different direction instead, or if they bothered to explain what exactly looks uninspired in the art, and gave examples of other titles using a similar style to explain why it's so generic.

 

[Bit-Bit]

The problem of Twilight Princess was not it's artistical design, it was not the graphical engine and it was even not the gameplay in the end (quite dated, but still very good on GC. A little less on Wii).

The problem was that it was BORING. (Dungeon - boss - overworld) n-times. Come on boy, I was really frustrated after Gerudo's desert. Otherwise it would have surely be much more enjoyable.

This game seem to suffer the opposite problem: looks "bland, uninspired, washed out and generic". And artistically we can clearly see that the work behind the environments is of an order of magnitude behind TP.
But maybe it will turn out to be extremely enjoyable, ironically. Controls seem to be great. Music will be orchestrated and at least seem not to be again recycled (this is a big pro IMHO).

Wrong! TP did more than any other Zelda before it in making the time spent between dungeons memorable. This just goes to prove that you people have no idea what you're talking about. Either that or you have a short term memory.

Let's see, before the first dungeon, you had Link gathering/wrastling cows, sneaking around as a wolf, and finding lightseeds. Between the first and second dungeon, you had Link rescuing the children and then wrestling gorons. Then Link had bad ass horseback sword fight through Hyrule field and on a bridge.

The list goes on and on. Surfing down a mountain, protecting a carriage, flying on a beast through a cave, and many more. TP was the farthest thing from "(Dungeon - boss - overworld)".

 

[Vinci]

I know there's a big deal of subjectivity with art, different people can love or hate different artstyles.

But I fail to see how the one used for SS is bland, boring, uninspired or generic, in any way. I'd understand completely if people said they were wishing for a different direction instead, or if they bothered to explain what exactly looks uninspired in the art, and gave examples of other titles using a similar style to explain why it's so generic.

Not getting that either. I think the biggest issue right now is that people were hoping to see some overworld stuff, and it wasn't in the trailer. They want to get a sense of scope. I honestly don't give a damn if there is an overworld, at least in the traditional sense, but that seems to be a large focus for many people.

 

[Jocchan]

Not getting that either. I think the biggest issue right now is that people were hoping to see some overworld stuff, and it wasn't in the trailer. They want to get a sense of scope. I honestly don't give a damn if there is an overworld, at least in the traditional sense, but that seems to be a large focus for many people.

To be honest, I was disappointed by the trailer too. I was expecting something more akin to the TP trailers. Not because of the "zomg epic LOTR wannabe" feel, but because - as you say - they would show a larger scope for the game. You'd see large fields, some different locales, and it would transmit a strong sense of adventure.

What we got, instead, was a series of normal, or downright boring, sequences of slices and motion stuff. Nothing really indicative about the game as a whole, just small instances of gameplay elements. So, I'd understand completely even people being disappointed by the type of trailer we got.

What I don't understand are the "bland/generic art" and "another OoT rehash" camps. They make no sense to me, and to be honest I believe that - if these camps exist at all - it's only Nintendo's fault for the way they're promoting their game.

 

[Poyunch]

Yeah for me the overworld was just underwhelming for me. It was definitely beautiful in scope but it really lacked in hidden secrets. Plus the wolf mechanics were bad. It played like a gimped Link with a one hit kill move.