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[BertramCooper]

Oh cool were gonna throw the "I go to art school argument"? Because I can do that too. Using other peoples opinions to validate an argument is weak.

The art style for this looks really nice, the models are nice and exaggerated, easy to read, pleasant colors, good use of textures to hide the console limits. A lot of people here bitch because we,,, because its not a next-gen game and its harder to appreciate in a sense, but this game looks pretty gorgeous.

Don't mind KeeSomething.

He's been a rather notorious Zelda troll for a few years now. And not just on GAF.

 

[Amir0x]

In what way, though?
There wasn't a significant change between OoT and WW. It was still Zelda. Hell, there wasn't even that significant of a change between LttP and OoT.
Zelda is Zelda. It plays like any other Zelda game.
More power isn't going to change that formula, and it really shouldn't, because there's no other game out there that does it like Zelda does.

I definitely think the change between OoT and Wind Waker was pretty significant.

The visuals were massively upgraded
The gameplay had a really different flow thanks to the sailing
The gameplay itself was really refined over OoT; more fluid, better controlling.
The story itself was better presented, more expressive and meaningful.

The basic structure was in place and it still similar concepts, but it was a large change as far as franchises go.

I think, as much as a Zelda game should or could change, Wind Waker is as far as one should go. There really is a big change in that game. if you look at other franchises, few would be daring to go that radical from game to game.

 

[Raging Spaniard]

In what way, though?
There wasn't a significant change between OoT and WW. It was still Zelda. Hell, there wasn't even that significant of a change between LttP and OoT.
Zelda is Zelda. It plays like any other Zelda game.
More power isn't going to change that formula, and it really shouldn't, because there's no other game out there that does it like Zelda does.

Well like I said before, I dont know in what way .. thats up to Nintendo. Its what makes them special (lol)

And those are big changes. Zelda is always going to remain an adventure game mixed with some other shit, but those additions changed the experience a fair deal.

 

[From The Dust]

Well if there's indeed a flight mechanic Link might not even need a dragon to fight airborne.

he has to ride something. unless they make a teleport system. while useful, I kinda felt bad leaving Epona is some random canyon

 

[Chemo]

I think the valid criticism is that you know what to expect out of this game to a certain extent because of the platform is on. Old Zelda games had a sense of mystery to them because your train of thought might have been something like "omg I cant wait to see what this will be like on the N64" A big shift in technology tends to alter game design radically.

If Aonuma and co. had a very powerful system to make this game on like a 360 or PS3 specs then they would have to REALLY re-imagine Zelda because they would have a lot of freedom to make whatever game they wanted to make. With this game you know to an extent what youre getting because you know the Wii isnt going to allow for super beautiful completely seamless open world gameplay, nor a lot of enemies on screen, not reliable online ... things of that nature.

The biggest changes in Zelda history happened when the game changed platforms, since there arent a lot of differences between Gamecube and Wii, then the novelty has to come from different areas, like M+.

I see what you're saying, but you're still making excuses for the Zelda team. This series is running on fumes, and there's no excuse for it stagnating to this degree. They need to do something fresh sooner than later... unless they really just don't give a shit, and money is the only thing that matters to them anymore. If that's the case, why not just keep on keeping on.

 

[AceBandage]

I definitely think the change between OoT and Wind Waker was pretty significant.

The visuals were massively upgraded
The gameplay had a really different flow thanks to the sailing
The gameplay itself was really refined over OoT; more fluid, better controlling.
The story itself was better presented, more expressive and meaningful.

The basic structure was in place and it still similar concepts, but it was a large change as far as franchises go.

I think, as much as a Zelda game should or could change, Wind Waker is as far as one should go. There really is a big change in that game. if you look at other franchises, few would be daring to go that radical from game to game.

See, that isn't even close to what RS was saying, that's a pretty normal evolution of the franchise, which has little to do with system power. Hell, I think SS is going to hit all those points as well, even.

he has to ride something. unless they make a teleport system. while useful, I kinda felt bad leaving Epona is some random canyon

The Sword allows him to fly.

 

[ASIS]

Man, this must be what Amirox feels like ....

Yes you can make any Zelda game on whatever console, THATS NOT MY POINT. My point is, within hardware limits comes familiarity, with more powerful hardware you have more choices to make more meaningful innovation.

Super Nintendo: you had enough power to have more than one overworld
N64: you had enough power to reinvent the series in 3D
Gamecube: You had enough power to make a complete seamless word covered in water
Wii: Not a big enough difference in hardware, so there wasnt a big jump other than in gameplay

This doesn't connote quality, I never said it did ... but what Im trying to get at is that once Nintendo has (hopefully) much more powerful hardware to make games with, thats when you'll see Zelda games change significantly.

Here's what you don't get. The bolded part is, simply put, not true. look at the GC games, you had WW and TP and one could have sworn they had nothing in common. How exactly would WW work better if they had more power? The games have already proved you don't need power to make them unique, at least not in terms of visuals or gameplay.

I get what you're saying, but until we get SS in our hands we can't say whether or not it would have benefited from powerful hardware (aside from maybe HD or something).

 

[Cygnus X-1]

I don't know why, but the music of that trailer keep running in my mind. If the soundtrack will be composed by most original tracks like this one, it already is a step in the right direction.

Looking at the trailer, also the motion plus mechanics seems to be really something that can add more fun to the experience.

Thus, I would only say that the low level of artistic details and textures, alongside with the same, forest-based environment with some glimpses of desert and gloomy dungeons keep my worries alive. But I think part of that can be improved in the remaining months.

Let's hope the storyline and the cast will have some originality though...

 

[Holy Order Sol]

I see what you're saying, but you're still making excuses for the Zelda team. This series is running on fumes, and there's no excuse for it stagnating to this degree. They need to do something fresh sooner than later... unless they really just don't give a shit, and money is the only thing that matters to them anymore. If that's the case, why not just keep on keeping on.

Or quality is a more important concern than novelty?

 

[From The Dust]

I wonder how accurate the M+ can be if you start swinging like Link was when he was cutting the bamboo. that looked too fast for the M+ to respond accurately

 

[Amir0x]

See, that isn't even close to what RS was saying, that's a pretty normal evolution of the franchise, which has little to do with system power. Hell, I think SS is going to hit all those points as well, even.

I wasn't supporting his argument. I just think Wind Waker is a pretty big change as far as franchises can do internally. I mean, it's not quite as big as Super Metroid to Metroid Prime, but it's like the second biggest next step without changing genre.

 

[DieNgamers]

SS has best looking Link objectively:

http://www.sitsam.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Legend-of-Zelda-Skyward-Sword.jpg

http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/skyward-sword.jpg

Look at his eyes...They look so dead and empty! Something took his soul! Possible plot secret???
OoT's and MM's Link had some simple eye textures but with lots of expression! I think no Link after came close except maybe Wind Waker's!

 

[ShockingAlberto]

You know, I was discussing the first Christopher Nolan Batman with some friends once. We started talking about the quick cuts and kind of confused movement the camera occasionally has, essentially simulating what it's like to be a dude in a room where Batman is slowly picking people off. Another friend interjected that she really didn't like the movie because of those quick cuts. She thought it came off amateurish and they were told never to do that because she took a film class once.

That's what "None of my art school friends like this so why would anyone" kind of reminds me of.

 

[udivision]

Look at his eyes...They look so dead and empty! Something took his soul! Possible plot secret???
OoT's and MM's Link had some simple eye textures but with lots of expression! I think no Link after came close except maybe Wind Waker's!

WW & TP had a lot more expression than the older games. WW having the most of course. TP's don't stick out as much, but they were there.

 

[zoukka]

That's what "None of my art school friends like this so why would anyone" kind of reminds me of.

Film schools are way worse than art schools.

 

[big_z]

I wonder how accurate the M+ can be if you start swinging like Link was when he was cutting the bamboo. that looked too fast for the M+ to respond accurately

it was mentioned on a podcast some time ago that you can move the sword freely but when you swing hard it's like red steel where it locks into a predetermined animation. vertical, horizontal or angled. so for the bamboo i imagine you need to get the first swing right but afterwards you can waggle like mad and as long as the controller is moving the swing will repeat.


EDIT: imo visually the game looks like a step down from wind waker. i know they're going for the water colored painted look but it doesnt show at all, it just looks very low res and dated already. wind waker on the other hand still looks good.

bad graphics aside im more interested in finding out how they're breathing new life into an overused game formula. they said this one would be different but if controls is the only thing they're changing then i dont know if i'll play this one. twilight princess was a bore...

 

[From The Dust]

it was mentioned on a podcast some time ago that you can move the sword freely but when you swing hard it's like red steel where it locks into a predetermined animation. vertical, horizontal or angled. so for the bamboo i imagine you need to get the first swing right but afterwards you can waggle like mad and as long as the controller is moving the swing will repeat.

I gues so. I figured it was just a waggle as fast as you can.

The Sword allows him to fly.

bitch ain't got no wings

 

[ASIS]

it was mentioned on a podcast some time ago that you can move the sword freely but when you swing hard it's like red steel where it locks into a predetermined animation. vertical, horizontal or angled. so for the bamboo i imagine you need to get the first swing right but afterwards you can waggle like mad and as long as the controller is moving the swing will repeat.

it was already done in the E3 demo. you can go really fast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xrm5KnyD4ks&feature=related

go to :40

 

[From The Dust]

it was already done in the E3 demo. you can go really fast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xrm5KnyD4ks&feature=related

go to :40

ah, now I remember, man the rupees are so fucking big

looking at the stamina gauge again, EAD 3 could do some interesting things with that. like SotC style bosses

 

[Raging Spaniard]

Here's what you don't get. The bolded part is, simply put, not true. look at the GC games, you had WW and TP and one could have sworn they had nothing in common. How exactly would WW work better if they had more power? The games have already proved you don't need power to make them unique, at least not in terms of visuals or gameplay.

I get what you're saying, but until we get SS in our hands we can't say whether or not it would have benefited from powerful hardware (aside from maybe HD or something).

I disagree, WW was pushed as far as they could within that system. How could you make that better? Well thats the point, they made it as good as the system allowed, if they had more power to play with they would have made something different. The sailing was something they could have never pulled off in the N64 days, same with the facial and body animations that played a huge role in the gameplay.

My main overall point is that you will see a huge change in the series once Nintendo upgrades to substantially more powerful hardware. This has nothing to do with how much I enjoy the games though, WW is my favorite Zelda game and thought TP didnt live up to its promise.

 

[From The Dust]

found this while looking at SS E3 videos. it's awesome, to say the least

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO-AT-45yMQ&feature=related

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I disagree, WW was pushed as far as they could within that system. How could you make that better? Well thats the point, they made it as good as the system allowed, if they had more power to play with they would have made something different. The sailing was something they could have never pulled off in the N64 days, same with the facial and body animations that played a huge role in the gameplay.

My main overall point is that you will see a huge change in the series once Nintendo upgrades to substantially more powerful hardware. This has nothing to do with how much I enjoy the games though, WW is my favorite Zelda game and thought TP didnt live up to its promise.

This assumes creativity is a linear process.

When Sunshine came out, did you ever think Galaxy was next?

 

[Jocchan]

The only pretty significant change I can see happening within the Zelda formula before a substantial hardware refresh happens, besides the equally as important jump to Motion+ we already know to be coming, is a more structured approach to the overworld level design.

Aonuma seemed to hint something similar last June, when he mentioned a more seamless transition between dungeons and overworld. Something that could be done, besides less abrupt changes in setting or locations that end up revealing themselves as actual dungeons (like the mansion in Twilight Princess), with more complex level layouts in the overworld itself, requiring the player to put his equipment into use more often to proceed further in the game. Even if this means splitting the overworld into smaller chunks because of obvious hardware limitations, the sense of adventure and exploration would certainly benefit significantly.
Twilight Princess was already a first, shy step in this direction, by the way, and the idea of several islands in the sky seems like a perfect way to go one (big) step further without giving up too much of the "seamless world" feel.

This kind of approach would ironically be more similar to 2D Zeldas than something really new. If done correctly, though, it could make the overworld more interesting overall, and would help making the game feel fresher again. I don't know if they'll end up doing it, with a 4 year+ development cycle they certainly had enough time to experiment and come up with plenty of ideas, but honestly I'm curious to see what they're going to come up with.

 

[ksamedi]

Man, this must be what Amirox feels like ....

Yes you can make any Zelda game on whatever console, THATS NOT MY POINT. My point is, within hardware limits comes familiarity, with more powerful hardware you have more choices to make more meaningful innovation.

Super Nintendo: you had enough power to have more than one overworld
N64: you had enough power to reinvent the series in 3D
Gamecube: You had enough power to make a complete seamless word covered in water
Wii: Not a big enough difference in hardware, so there wasnt a big jump other than in gameplay

This doesn't connote quality, I never said it did ... but what Im trying to get at is that once Nintendo has (hopefully) much more powerful hardware to make games with, thats when you'll see Zelda games change significantly.

I fully understand what you're saying but why are you neglecting motion controls? It looks like a huge leap in the game play department. This is what distinguishes Wii from the rest. There are loads of the types of games you mention on other platforms. I really prefer for Nintendo or Wii developers in general to provide different experiences on the Wii.

I also don't see how much more powerfull hardware would change the Zelda experience. Seamless worlds and lots of enemies on screen are already done in TP. With more powerfull hardware, we would only get more of the same. I don't see how that changes the Zelda experience.

 

[Red]

sup muthafuckas

og stylin' everywhere up in this bitch

A little late, but I have to say: Regulus Tera knows what's up.

 

[zoukka]

This assumes creativity is a linear process.

Inside videogame franchises it often is.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

A little late, but I have to say: Regulus Tera knows what's up.

Could use some hammerspace though. XD

 

[Error]

You guys are ridiculous, game looks great.

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

Hmm... Not to come off as a know-it-all, but I go to an art school, and I haven't met anyone who is impressed by the way SS looks. Same with my non-art school friends. The only people I've met that are impressed with SS's visuals are the people who post here (and a small percent on Zelda Universe).

Can someone explain why they find it appealing? Not that you're going to change my mind (just like I can't change you mind and I don't want to), I'm just curious.

As Raging Spaniard has tell you, we can all play that.
Im in my last year of art college, and I have showed the game to friends and they really like it, even liking that the backgrounds have a Cezanne style (even if you call it watercolor photoshop). One of the few complaints was the pants of Link (which I tell that its maybe becuase of the flying theme the game has and the resemble aviator pants). Oh look, my art college friends and your art school friends opinions clash. How can be that possible!

So in resume it doesnt mean my opinion or the opinions of my art college friends are better than any of the people that post here or give opinion in real life. So please, dont use that argument again to validate your opinion.

 

[From The Dust]

A little late, but I have to say: Regulus Tera knows what's up.

needs more pants

 

[beelzebozo]

i'm in flight school and those pants are dog shit.

 

[Red]

i'm in flight school and those pants are dog shit.

Nintendo just shot themselves in the foot etc

 

[Dorrin]

I'll probably still get this but I'm certainly on the fence and thats a first for me regarding a Zelda game. I agree that this franchise needs some type of shake up. At this point I'd settle for something different in the story.. maybe an older link, grey at the temples, rescuing Queen Zelda's daughter(his illegitimate child) or something. I don't know just something a bit different.

 

[Scrow]

A little late, but I have to say: Regulus Tera knows what's up.

but he's basically wearing a mini skirt. at least SWS Link has pantaloons

 

[From The Dust]

i'm in flight school and those pants are dog shit.

I'm in adventuring school and my friends say they are awesome!

 

[Red]

but he's basically wearing a mini skirt. at least SWS Link has pantaloons

Color his legs brown then and there you go. Skirt or not he's still the best.

 

[From The Dust]

Color his legs brown then and there you go. Skirt or not he's still the best.

Then he would be wearing pantyhose

 

[Holy Order Sol]

maybe an older link, grey at the temples, rescuing Queen Zelda's daughter(his illegitimate child) or something. I don't know just something a bit different.

notsureifserious

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Wait, now being in art school validates your opinion more???

I think I have seen it all.

Imagination and style >>>>>> technical-mumbo jumbo

Especially considering the circumstances.

 

[From The Dust]

Wait, now being in art school validates your opinion more???

I think I have seen it all.

we don't go to $100K schools for nothing

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

we don't go to $100K schools for nothing

YOU DO!!!!!!!!!

I just think that I'd prefer a more natural and gut reaction to aesthetics to someone's that will pick apart every part of some visual mechanically.

That's me though.

 

[Big One]

I'll probably still get this but I'm certainly on the fence and thats a first for me regarding a Zelda game. I agree that this franchise needs some type of shake up. At this point I'd settle for something different in the story.. maybe an older link, grey at the temples, rescuing Queen Zelda's daughter(his illegitimate child) or something. I don't know just something a bit different.

"Man I wish Zelda would finally CHANGE in terms of gameplay...they just need to give Link a cowboy hat."

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I think I need to play Wind Waker again.

...

Fuck... my brother has the Wavebird.

 

[apana]

I think the sword sacrifices itself by the end of the game in order to save you, and that's how it becomes the master sword. Also you guys are focusing way too much on that art school comment, let it go.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Also you guys are focusing way too much on that art school comment, let it go.

That person felt the need to mention it for a reason.

 

[Jocchan]

"Man I wish Zelda would finally CHANGE in terms of gameplay...they just need to give Link a cowboy hat."

BUT HE HAS GOT A NEW HAT!

 

[Akai]

I think the sword sacrifices itself by the end of the game in order to save you, and that's how it becomes the master sword.

But we've already seen the "Master Sword" being used in the artwork...and in the E3 demo...

So technically it's already the Master Sword, but will probably gain its evil-slaying power that will probably entrap the Fairy in its physical sword form permanently...

 

[apana]

But we've already seen the Master Sword being used in the artwork...and in the E3 demo...

No, that's the skyward sword. It becomes the master sword somehow by the end of the game. Clearly the master sword couldn't turn into a lady. Either that or I need to replay Ocarina.

 

[Akai]

GIVE ME TIME TO EDIT, YOU!

 

[carlo6529]

maybe an older link, grey at the temples, rescuing Queen Zelda's daughter(his illegitimate child) or something. I don't know just something a bit different.

I now get why the zelda cycle exists. People think they don't want a carbon copy but in actuality they do, they just want to be fooled in believing the game is different. That is why you get people complaining if the game is too different or unchanged.

Spoiler

I take whatever Nintendo gives me