World War Z is just morr illogical. Amry can't surpass a group of zombies? Give me a break.
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Zombie fantasies, are in a way, illogical
- Thread starter Boss Doggie
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World War Z is just morr illogical. Amry can't surpass a group of zombies? Give me a break.
NOOOOOOO!
Sho_Nuff82
Member
World War Z had some great moments (like Yonkers, explaining why traditional artillery strikes were ineffective against the living dead, especially in the thousands), but they still handwaved stuff like the zombies being stronger than normal people, zombies not needing to breathe, zombies not suffering from freezing/thawing, zombies gaining no real sustenance from their food, and zombies being able to survive extreme pressure underwater.
The traditional living dead are still an unreal phenomenon, even when the proliferation is portrayed realistically as it was in WWZ.
I thought it did a pretty good job of explaining what exactly went wrong.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Even the rage virus doesn't make sense really. Yeah it's super rabies but the most it can do is just make the person have seizures.
But yeah, this is more of me trying to counter zombie hype.
Actually WWZ is one of those far out examples (like what I said, the book forgets underwater has pressure) so it doesn't really try to make itself grounded.
Exactly.
But yeah, this is more of me trying to counter zombie hype.
Actually WWZ is one of those far out examples (like what I said, the book forgets underwater has pressure) so it doesn't really try to make itself grounded.
Exactly.
ChiTownBuffalo
Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
They addressed the freezing thing.
And I think the other stuff they were like, "We don't know how it works. Our scientists are looking into it."
And Hamburglar's avatar is absurd, but it is logical. Put Captain American stuff on Surprised Batman Face.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Did they forget to bring bullets or what?
Zombies are unrealistic as potrayed as living dead, which is a biologically impossible concept. However, a rage - inducing virus in the vein of 28 days latter seems to be not too much far fetched. There has been reseach on biological weapons aiming to create similar effects to the ones described. In fact, the image of an overpopullated city like El Cairo or Rio de Janeiro being vaporized with generous amounts of the "bath salts" drugs could easily pass for a "zombie - breakdown" scenario.
Other people watch Bob's Burgers? neat
uhhhhhhh
Dynamite Ringo Matsuri
Member
uhhhhhhh
Get out of my head Charles!
Phoenix
Member
Really?
AdventureRacing
Member
This is one of the reasons i don't like slow moving zombies. All i can think about when i see them is how the infection ever spread to more than one person. Usually these movies rely on character stupidity for anyone to actually end up dying as well.
At least the zombies that run are extremely intimidating and i can sort of see how a lot of people would get infected (not to the extent of the doomsday scenarios presented but still).
At least the zombies that run are extremely intimidating and i can sort of see how a lot of people would get infected (not to the extent of the doomsday scenarios presented but still).
Yeah, they can, depending on where the bullet hits.
you didn't read the thread
i hate how world war z says that current military arms would be ineffective at stopping zombies. look, you blow out a zombies kneecap or put enough bullets in the chest chances are the human structure wouldn't hold up against that. bam, zombie crippled.
Phoenix
Member
Especially considering how absurdly difficult it is to GET to the human brain. A zombie would have to essentially gnaw through the skull!
Phoenix
Member
Shots on zombies that kill them destroy the brain. Shots on humans that kill them destroy the brain. You can shoot the jaw, ear, scalp, etc. off a zombie and they are still "combat effective". That is what made them so difficult an enemy - you'd have to not only get a head shot (which is not what anybody firing a weapons is trained to do - we aim for the center mass), but you have to get penetration and brain destruction.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Right, the fact that they can inexplicably move a human body while ignoring all metabolic and physiological requirements for getting said body to move makes them dangerous.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
- A traditional army battalion isn't equipped to take down 100,000 to 1 million hostiles in a single engagement.
- High calibur rifle fire is a waste of ammo if you hit anywhere in the center mass, including limbs.
- Zombies never get tired or scared
- The sight of another soldier being eaten alive is morale-breaking. As is shooting re-animated children or former soldiers
- the shrapnel produced by modern explosives doesn't kill zombies unless it destroys the brain
- incendiary explosives only slow them down
- Zombies don't suffer from organ failure due to explosive impact
Now imagine carpet bombing a swarm of zombies for 30 min, then unloading all of the available ammo of your ground forces, and coming to the realization that you killed maybe 100k of a 500k swarm. With over 50 million zombies covering North America at that point.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
The best solution is always quarantine and sterilization. In fiction, the infection always spreads because the infected or their loved ones are too slow to grasp the means of infection and that there is no cure.
By the time they do accept it, it's always too late and the infection has taken over half the planet.
By the time they do accept it, it's always too late and the infection has taken over half the planet.
If there's a nerd thread, this is it.
Zombies would need tendons/muscle to move. Shrapnel and any form of ammunition would be effective. Burning would be effective. Barbed wire and any form of solid obstacle would eliminate any zombie threat due to their inability to reason out of it.
You guys have an agenda.
Zombies would need tendons/muscle to move. Shrapnel and any form of ammunition would be effective. Burning would be effective. Barbed wire and any form of solid obstacle would eliminate any zombie threat due to their inability to reason out of it.
You guys have an agenda.
I never understood why nerds acted like a Zombie apocalypse was any real threat... It's just so unrealistic. I mean, sure, it could grow to a horrible disaster, but the thought of a planet wide zombie apocalypse? That's just silly. I mean, at some point someone is going to nuke the goddamn place. And this is only if the infection is viral, it's the classic bite type infection? Please, it wouldn't last a week.
EDIT: Cracked got us covered: http://www.cracked.com/article_18683_7-scientific-reasons-zombie-outbreak-would-fail-quickly.html
EDIT: Cracked got us covered: http://www.cracked.com/article_18683_7-scientific-reasons-zombie-outbreak-would-fail-quickly.html
You brilliant son of a bitch!
Extra Sauce
Member
It is highly illogical if they're clinically dead.
The 28 Days Later type "zombies" are more scientifically probable (though still a stretch of course)
The 28 Days Later type "zombies" are more scientifically probable (though still a stretch of course)
Phoenix
Member
What about from bad weed or bath salts?
This is my thought too.
Someone actually woke up this morning and said "I need to make sure that people know that zombies are illogical, it is my solemn duty to get this information out there.
Lives may depend on it!"
uhhhhhhh
First thing that popped into my mind when I read the thread title, too.
KibblesBits
Member
It's a very serious subject. Are you prepared?
World War Z goes pretty well with The Zombie Survival Guide.
You should read the guide with it or at the very least just read the guide.
no it doesnt.
it overstates them if anything; they contained it to the british isles even with its instant transmission speed.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
we all know that an undead version of a zombie is literally no threat, they would be mauled by insects /scavengers and bacteria. They cant repair their bodies so even if you dont blow off its head ...you can blow out its back and get the same effect, a useless pile of bleh.
Clearly a rabies type zombie is the only one we are gonna get...for now, that and chemically induced ones like they used in plantations in the carribean.
Clearly a rabies type zombie is the only one we are gonna get...for now, that and chemically induced ones like they used in plantations in the carribean.
bengraven
Member
Oh, I did: exaggerated thread title, exaggerated post.
But he's right: zombie writers either make their creatures too durable or too flimsy. If a zombie isn't made of steel, it's made of wet Kleenex. People are so obsessed with over-compensating for decay that they lose track of reality.
That said, it's still fantasy and it's just for fun.
I think the majority of zombie fiction immediately dismisses bacteria (for whatever reason biologically that would help make their zombies immortal), but I bet scavengers are confused. zombies smell like death which turns the scavengers on, but then they walk like humans which frighten the scavengers.
KibblesBits
Member
Oh, I did: exaggerated thread title, exaggerated post.
But he's right: zombie writers either make their creatures too durable or too flimsy. If a zombie isn't made of steel, it's made of wet Kleenex. People are so obsessed with over-compensating for decay that they lose track of reality.
That said, it's still fantasy and it's just for fun.
I think the majority of zombie fiction immediately dismisses bacteria (for whatever reason biologically that would help make their zombies immortal), but I bet scavengers are confused. zombies smell like death which turns the scavengers on, but then they walk like humans which frighten the scavengers.
It's all fun and games until someone gets bit!
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
yeah but a zombie cant fly, and they sure as hell wont run, that means
armored division > zombie horde
dont even have to use ammo, run them over with hordes of tanks / apc's and use acid spray
/game. Not to mention cold weather and hot weather areas would rape them, as well as high elevation areas would be nigh impossible for them to not get corralled and raped.
and then theres bears...
I liked that one. Though I think half way through the biggest danger came actually from the military.
Tanks run out of fuel. Try refueling one with thousand of zombies around it.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Why does each Battalion need to take on 100,000 to 1 million zombies in a single engagement? For reference, a Battalion is no more than 1200 men. It's also unclear as to why each Battalion would not simply elect to retreat prior to being overwhelmed. The use of such incredible things as strategy should prove to be utterly devastating against such slow moving creatures lacking higher brain functions. I'm not exactly expecting them to know what a trap is or to have the brains to not fall for obvious ploys to direct their large scale movement into places favorable for the military.
NATO armies use 5.56mm rounds, which is the polar opposite of "high caliber", but the headshot thing is just a zombie trope (i.e. pure fantasy) anyway and isn't a new insight.
Zombies never get tired because this is pure fantasy, and they are ignoring biology. Nothing new here either.
Are you expecting me to believe that this is going to significantly impact the ability of soldiers to fight? Seeing your comrades get eaten is going to strengthen your resolve to fight until the last zombie dies. People can get used to anything, and historically warfare has demonstrated this. Ancient warfare was getting up close and beating, slicing and stabbing people to death in brutal close quarters encounters. Modern warfare has seen such things as gas attacks, artillery/airstrikes, machineguns and so on. There are military forces in the world today who have actively engaged in genocide against innocent civilians, including children. Are these people going to have their morale broken because there are some sick people engaging in cannibalism?
Once again, pure fantasy. Close range explosions will literally tear them apart, and even at medium and long distances shrapnel will routinely penetrate their skulls. This is, as usual, ignoring the obvious fact that they will disable a zombie for exactly the same reason they will disable a normal human being, i.e. that bodily functions cannot just shut down without also removing the ability to move, think and take any actions at all.
A laughable notion, but carry on.
Utter nonsense, ignoring basic physics. Explosions are extremely lethal for a reason.
It would not get to the point where there were 50 million zombies covering North America, because this wouldn't leave a single city. The suspension of disbelief required to enjoy a zombie movie is shattered when you attempt to explain everything in detail, because forcing people to think about it in detail results in the whole thing unraveling and being revealed for what it actually is - completely and utterly absurd on every single level imaginable. Science goes out the window straight away, and you may as well say it's just magic. Even once you've accepted that it's magic, you need mass-scale incompetence for it to spread beyond its initial point of infection unless it's something like the original Night Of The Living Dead where it's not actually a disease at all, it's radiation from outer space reanimating people who die, regardless of what killed them. Ironically, this ends up being one of the most realistic depictions, because it lasts like 24 hours before it's under control.
I feel bad for even participating in this thread, because 28 Days/Weeks + the classic Romero films are things I really enjoy.
KibblesBits
Member
A big issue with Zombies is response time. People tend to react slowly to things that seem impossible. By the time enough action is taken for the military to come in there would probably be hordes and hordes worth of zombies.
The way zombies are written in modern media gives them a bit of an advantage. I'll agree with that, but they wouldn't be awesomely horrific if presented in other ways.
But he's talking about what happened in the book World War Z. And in that book the fantasy zombies exist.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
The original post that sparked this discussion was someone saying that WWZ does a good job of explaining why zombies are a threat, and my response is using this as context. If the only reason the zombies are a threat is because they're fantasy monsters that ignore scientific principles, then they are "illogical" as outlined in the OP of this thread (wherein he operationally defines illogical to mean 'trying, but failing to be realistic').
Sho_Nuff82
Member
As mentioned above, I'm simply summarizing the rationale given in WWZ. The zombies are still fantasy creatures - requiring automatic suspension of disbelief - WWZ attempts to explain, in a fairly realistic way based on modern technology, religion, and international cultures, why a zombie apocalypse could happen, and why some traditional military strategies would be ineffective once the infection gained a foothold.
The "mass scale incompetence" is the focus of at least half the book. In a way, it's a deconstruction of the zombie trope of the apocalypse taking place over the span of a few weeks/months, as it takes years for several countries to even acknowledge that it's a problem in WWZ, and when you add in several factors like:
- poor communication between countries that are proximal but unfriendly, like India/Pakistan or North/South Korea
- poor education on health matters, as in rural South Africa (there are actually governments in Africa that, until the past decade, openly denied that HIV caused AIDs)
- Massive overcrowding, like in Tokyo, NYC, areas of China, and India
- Long incubation times for those infected by bites/scratches but not yet turned allows them to travel the country/world
- False cures popping up
- People assigning religious meaning to a clearly biological problem
- genre blindness. A staple of all zombie horror is that no one has ever seen a movie/read a book about the living dead, so they don't understand that bites spread infections and that severing the brain is the only way to bring them down
I'm entering spoiler territory here a bit, but the "Great Panic", the actual breakdown of society and infrastructure, only occurs when people realize "oh fuck we're really in trouble", stop going to work, start getting in accidents on highways trying to escape cities, and basically start stockpiling guns/food/money and cram their way towards supposed "safe zones." This only exacerbates the problem.
There are 12 million people who live in Mumbai, India, for example, who speak 16 languages and practice at least 5 major religions. Do you think organizing a city-wide clean sweep would be feasible within 24 hours of hearing rumblings about some cramped ghetto denizens eating each other? Do you think the Indian government could stop all of their citizens from emigrating illegally? Do you think the Indian government, which has nuclear weapons, wouldn't react aggressively to a foreign power jumping in and trying to control the problem for them?
In WWZ, Israel is the only country to get it right, and their situation is unique in that they already have most of the infrastructure in place to perform a mass quarantine.
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