Support NeoGAF

AlphaTwo00 · Jul 23, 2014

EDIT: Explanation for sample size and how it relates to $500

Among participants, 6.5 percent were disqualified as not having derived their income directly from the game industry.
We also excluded cases in which the compensation was given as less than $10,000 USD, and the highest salary range was limited to $200,000 USD to prevent a limited number of outliers from distorting the true central tendency of the computed average salaries in each category. We further excluded records missing key demographic and classification information.

TL;DR - Surveys are filled out by people who are:

a) the reported income must be > 10K US and < 200K US
b) said income is sourced within game industry/related fields (so basically, you can't have a side job that brings in 10K and be included, the 10K must come from work related directly to the development and production of a game)

So in that regard, 57% of indie games by these people (who made a min of 10K from their work on games) made less than $500.

================================

So, while Game Developer Magazine is gone, the salary survey continues, and finally the 2014 report is out, it's an interesting read:

http://www.gamasutra.com/salarysurvey2014.pdf?_mc=AD_HS_LE_G14MRKEE04

Some highlights:

So here are some of the top-line statistics: In 2013, salaried game developers in the U.S. earned an annual salary of $83,060 on average , which is down slightly compared to last year’s $84,337.

Programmers continue to be among the highest-paid in the game industry. The average U.S. programmer’s salary in 2013 was $93,251, compared to $92,151 in 2012.

Visual artists are the people who make video games appealing to our eyeballs. On average, game artists in the U.S. made $74,349 in 2013, down from $75,009 in the prior year.

Game designers hold perhaps the most romanticized career path in all of video game development. But 2013 showed that their pay only outranked one discipline: quality assurance.
On average, a salaried U.S.-based game designer made $73,864 in 2013, down from $75,065 in 2012. For designers with less than three years experience, the average salary
in 2013 was $50,625, down from $55,313 the year prior.

Indies, on the other hand, is an interesting story:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/221630/6_key_points_from_the_2014_Indie_Salary_Report.php

Solo indie developers earned an average income of $11,812 in 2013, down 49 percent from 2012’s $23,130 average.

Fifty-seven percent of indie game developers (including both solo indies and members of indie teams) made under $500 in game sales. On the other end of the spectrum, 2 percent made over $200,000 in game sales.

Interesting to see salary rise in general, but man, that indie path is looking scarier and scarier by the day.

Banana Aeon · Jul 23, 2014

That doesn't seem sustainable. The indie path is scary, man.

There is a reason why most popular indie devs have previous connections in the biz.

LittleNemoNES · Jul 23, 2014

I have family that worked for a game studio that made ~$500. The Company was dissolved, obviously. It's sad because both games were really fun. The problem is that big studios get all the recognition.

Qassim · Jul 23, 2014

I don't think that is at all surprising. For platforms with a low barrier to entry like PC and mobile, anyone can put out a game as a bit of a hobby on the side - it's not their livelihood - but they give it a try.

I have thrown together games, very basic things, that could probably be released with some polishing for specific platforms and then I'd be an 'indie developer' - they'd probably make next to no money, but that could be counted in statistics like these.

DNAbro · Jul 23, 2014

I assume this means app developers as well right?

Wait duh, stupid question.

Mrbob · Jul 23, 2014

The high number of indie developers not making any revenue is sad, but I'm not surprised by the percentage. The indie market has been flooded in the last year, and early access makes it worse. Too many games. Plus if you aren't in the top tier of mobile sales list you aren't making any money.

KooopaKid · Jul 23, 2014

LittleNemoNES said:
I have family that worked for a game studio that made ~$500. The Company was dissolved, obviously. It's sad because both games were really fun. The problem is that big studios get all the recognition.

Do you have a link to those games?

McHuj · Jul 23, 2014

There's just so many more indie games then before. It's great for gamers as there are lots of games, but not for the developers as they have more competition for sales, game time, and the public's attention.

Imbarkus · Jul 23, 2014

Game software itself is commoditized. The "indie gold rush" was born from the vast vacuum created by the shuttering of almost every mid-tier development studio in the last ten years.

Indie is a much cheaper talent and ideation pool, arranged for by publishers and service portal holders to replace the more expensive one from before.

Kind of like reality TV hopefuls.

Freedom = $1.05 · Jul 23, 2014

That salary for programmers looks like a lot BUT if they're working in San Francisco or Boston (but especially San Francisco) it isn't all that much given the cost of living in those areas.

Atomski · Jul 23, 2014

This is just due to there being such a wide spectrum with games that are considered indie.

So many are so small and bad that they dont even get any attention whats so ever.. which brings the general average down a lot.

DNAbro · Jul 23, 2014

Freedom = $1.05 said:
That salary for programmers looks like a lot BUT if they're working in San Francisco or Boston (but especially San Francisco) it isn't all that much given the cost of living in those areas.

What's the average income and cost of living in San Francisco?

sabertoothzombie · Jul 23, 2014

I really hope the indie games I enjoyed last year were part of the two percent.

tebunker · Jul 23, 2014

Wait is that just indie revenue from game sales? I guess it depends on the thinking that they "paid" themselves while working on the game with the idea of recouping that money.

However hasn't all game development always been like this? I mean it is why we have the publisher / developer relationship. Pub pays for a game so developer can stay in business.

I can see betting everything on an indie game being a bad idea. It is almost always better for these guys to give up a little control so they can stay afloat

Interfectum · Jul 23, 2014

Atomski said:
This is just due to there being such a wide spectrum with games that are considered indie.

So many are so small and bad that they dont even get any attention whats so ever.. which brings the general average down a lot.

Yeah this.

AlphaTwo00 · Jul 23, 2014

KooopaKid said:
Do you have a link to those games?

I don't know LittleNemoNES, but I have one I can definitely share (and he had posted here for a while) the story of Hope this Works games (Polara and Kunundrum. I've worked with 2 of the members for a while back at Koei Canada, and when that dissolved, they went on with a third partner to create that team. Despite the successful reviews and recommendations (I still see Polara often referenced in even GAF iOS threads), they haven't made any money back, and everyone has parted was.

These guys are proud of what they did, and what they were able to do, but it's definitely not sustainable. Dennis has packed his bags up and left the industry as a whole now, despite having over 10 years of experience with UI, texture and general art design.

TrueGrime · Jul 23, 2014

I wonder what is the profit disparity of console/PC indie developers and mobile indie developers.

bumpkin · Jul 23, 2014

*shrug* I've had an App on the iOS App Store for just under three years and to-date I've only made about $400. But it's not a game and was hardly marketed at all.

Seanspeed · Jul 23, 2014

Atomski said:
This is just due to there being such a wide spectrum with games that are considered indie.

So many are so small and bad that they dont even get any attention whats so ever.. which brings the general average down a lot.

Yea, that was my first thought. And if we're including mobile game developers, then think about all the total garbage out there and this becomes quite unsurprising.

AlphaTwo00 · Jul 23, 2014

Atomski said:
This is just due to there being such a wide spectrum with games that are considered indie.

So many are so small and bad that they dont even get any attention whats so ever.. which brings the general average down a lot.

I would caution though that the survey itself is a self selection process, and a lot of the gold rush type of indie developers that both break the top barrier (like the recent success of flappy birds, 2048, piano tiles) and the bottom end where it's people scrapping by won't get in.

With the help of research firm Audience insights, we sent email invitations to Game Developers conference 2014 attendees, and Gamasutra members in May 2014 inviting them to participate in our annual salary survey.
Although we received well over 4,000 unique responses worldwide, not all who participated in this survey provided sufficient compensation information to be included in the findings. Among participants, 6.5 percent were disqualified as not having derived their income directly from the game industry.
We also excluded cases in which the compensation was given as less than $10,000 USD, and the highest salary range was limited to $200,000 USD to prevent a limited number of outliers from distorting the true central tendency of the computed average salaries in each category. We further excluded records missing key demographic and classification information.

Atomski · Jul 23, 2014

TrueGrime said:
I wonder what is the profit disparity of console/PC indie developers and mobile indie developers.

Console would be easily higher but only due to it being a closed platform that makes it harder for smaller indies to get on. PC and Mobile are like the wildwest of indies. Such a range of games that like I said before the average profits would be lower.

desu · Jul 23, 2014

Atomski said:
This is just due to there being such a wide spectrum with games that are considered indie.

So many are so small and bad that they dont even get any attention whats so ever.. which brings the general average down a lot.

That is a huge factor. However I think the market is so crowded today that it really is pretty hard to make money, unless you have an absolutely standout product. And even then you might need a little luck to get noticed.

Also read this a while ago: http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.de/2014/05/the-indie-bubble-is-popping.html

Adam_Roman · Jul 23, 2014

And people wonder why so many indie devs have to use Kickstarter.

Poetic.Injustice · Jul 23, 2014

More indie developers = Less money to go around.

Until we somehow get more of a gaming audience that makes development of various genres viable I don't see this getting better.

Timeaisis · Jul 23, 2014

When you account for everyone, this isn't that surprising. Most don't make a salary and are relying on game sales. Just by statistics alone, one can see there are far more failed games than there are successful ones. Especially if we account for app-store developed F2P games that just never take off, then developers barely see any money from their hard work.

A sad, but unsurprising statistic.

Maxim726X · Jul 23, 2014

Such a depressing industry... So now AAA gaming makes nothing because of bloated development costs, and most Indies can't do well because they don't get the exposure.

Not good trends.

Skyzard · Jul 23, 2014

What do they mean they limited minimum compensation to $10 000 to be included in the study...but find that the low-end average is $500...

As in the developers that were paid $10K but whose game made a lot less?

zero shift · Jul 23, 2014

I'm not surprised being that how many games there are when you count Steam, App Store, Google Play, Nintendo Network, Xbox Live, PSN, and just the the wild west that is thte PC space in general. For every Towerfall and Blade Symphony there are hundreds of completely random games released on Desura or the App Store.

The average indie game developer isn't making games like this:

but games like this:

ekgrey · Jul 23, 2014

wow. a profession that pays less than mine! but i love what I do and wouldn't do anything else if I could...and someday I'll own half of the business.

I hope with the major push for indies on the new systems, the market will grow and the people that deserve it will make more and have more opportunities. but any creative field is like this. damn few make it as full-time artists.

Mesoian · Jul 23, 2014

zero shift said:
I'm not surprised being that how many games there are when you count Steam, App Store, Google Play, Nintendo Network, Xbox Live, PSN, and just the the wild west that is thte PC space in general. For every Towerfall and Blade Symphony there are hundreds of completely random games released on Desura or the App Store.

The average indie game developer isn't making games like this:

but games like this:

Indeed. Do we count the very many 3's clones as taking away from the net profit of the mobile puzzle game industry?

Freedom = $1.05 · Jul 23, 2014

DNAbro said:
What's the average income and cost of living in San Francisco?

Seems to be hovering around 80k, so 93k isn't anything to sneeze at but it's also not the same as making 93k anywhere else.

Polioliolio · Jul 23, 2014

If the developers of Towerfall, That cupman game Terraria, Fez, Jamestown, Super Meat Boy, etc etc.. if these people only made 500 bucks, I'll cry.

Now if we're talking about your cousin's brother who made a flappy bird clone, who gives a shiet?

Skyzard · Jul 23, 2014

zero shift said:
I'm not surprised being that how many games there are when you count Steam, App Store, Google Play, Nintendo Network, Xbox Live, PSN, and just the the wild west that is thte PC space in general. For every Towerfall and Blade Symphony there are hundreds of completely random games released on Desura or the App Store.

The average indie game developer isn't making games like this:

but games like this:

That first gif, is that a game? LOVE the visuals.

sixteen-bit · Jul 23, 2014

I expected a higher percentage tbh

Skyzard said:
That first gif, is that a game? LOVE the visuals.

cuphead

AlphaTwo00 · Jul 23, 2014

Polioliolio said:
If the developers of Towerfall, That cupman game Terraria, Fez, Jamestown, Super Meat Boy, etc etc.. if these people only made 500 bucks, I'll cry.

Now if we're talking about your cousin's brother who made a flappy bird clone, who gives a shiet?

Mesoian said:
Indeed. Do we count the very many 3's clones as taking away from the net profit of the mobile puzzle game industry?

Your 3's clones and your flappy bird clone developers are almost all likely to be both a)Not at GDC and b)not Gamasutra mailing list readers, hence they probably wouldn't even be in that survey.

I agree there's definitely some caution placed around what's included, but I don't think you can write it off entirely by 'there's a flood of shitty clone that's skewing it'.

Skyzard · Jul 23, 2014

sixteen-bit said:
I expected a higher percentage tbh

cuphead

Thank you.

Kinyou · Jul 23, 2014

I imagine its a bit like music or other art forms, only a few will rack in the really big money while others just get on by.

icespide · Jul 23, 2014

interesting that this thread pops up around the same time we get this thread:

Why do indie developers think they can get away with overcharging for late ports?

the perception of value for games and software is really fucked right now

Verger · Jul 23, 2014

Imbarkus said:
Game software itself is commoditized. The "indie gold rush" was born from the vast vacuum created by the shuttering of almost every mid-tier development studio in the last ten years.

Indie is a much cheaper talent and ideation pool, arranged for by publishers and service portal holders to replace the more expensive one from before.

Kind of like reality TV hopefuls.

Pretty much. Most of the mid-tier developers which all have shuttered had nowhere else to go as the industry reorganized itself, and the vast majority ended up going to places which were hiring, and those were the new social/mobile developers or trying the "indie" scene.

icespide said:
interesting that this thread pops up around the same time we get this thread:

Why do indie developers think they can get away with overcharging for late ports?

the perception of value for games and software is really fucked right now

This doesn't help either. Making games, even a super simple one, is time consuming/labor intensive and more expensive than you think. And the sad thing is for all that work you have a perception out there in many circles who feel games are too overpriced.

Imbarkus · Jul 24, 2014

Verger said:
Pretty much. Most of the mid-tier developers which all have shuttered had nowhere else to go as the industry reorganized itself, and the vast majority ended up going to places which were hiring, and those were the new social/mobile developers or trying the "indie" scene.

Talent costs more as it garners experience too, so most of the veterans will find themselves with families and college tuition bills and mortgages, competing for any sort of job or opportunity with twenty-somethings with endless enthusiasm (and naivete), low overhead, and an "indie movement" banner under which to rally together and collectively gamble their financial futures.

As in all industries, this reorganization resulted in, and was probably motivated by, concentration of wealth and profit at the upper executive and investor levels. The labor is producing more for less now, same as everywhere.

Makes the "indie movement" banner seem very much like the Reality TV dream which effectively moved much of the TV industry away from the organized labor of professional actors and writers. The labor and the customer base are the same, a self-consuming Ouroboros, until all the money is drained away... somewhere.

Go For Your Dreams!® You Can Do It!

Sketchbag · Jul 24, 2014

This is expected. You can't just expect to be paid money because you develop a game. Luck, marketing, and other factors enter the equation. It sucks for them but that's reality.

BigDug13 · Jul 24, 2014

Freedom = $1.05 said:
That salary for programmers looks like a lot BUT if they're working in San Francisco or Boston (but especially San Francisco) it isn't all that much given the cost of living in those areas.

Which makes it even worse for indie devs making less than $20,000 somewhere like SF or Boston. Not sure how your statement is relevant to how difficult it is for an indie dev to get paid.

Opus Angelorum · Jul 24, 2014

I'd like to see what percentage of those that earned less than $500 are actually any good.

BigDug13 · Jul 24, 2014

Opus Angelorum said:
I'd like to see what percentage of those that earned less than $500 are actually any good.

I'd like to see a report about average salary of indie developers who have released a console game. At least there you have mostly established studios releasing their game and isn't a report including hobby and side-project games that are for sale.

Crimsonclaw111 · Jul 24, 2014

When 57% of indie games are shitty cash ins I'm not surprised.

sirap · Jul 24, 2014

I'm so happy I got out of this industry (games, animation, vfx) Loved creating art but wages were just dogshit :/

Concept17 · Jul 24, 2014

Crimsonclaw111 said:
When 95% of indie games are shitty cash ins I'm not surprised.

Fixed. Most indie games are garbage. There are some really great ones of course, but the ratio is bad when you have a gazillion people trying to make games for the first time.

And also a gazillion 2d platformers.

link4117 · Jul 24, 2014

Crimsonclaw111 said:
When 57% of indie games are shitty cash ins I'm not surprised.

This seems to be a big factor really. Look at the number of clone games out there. It's no wonder 57% don't make much money when tons of it is stuff that's just thrown together. Look at all the shitty games that get on steam. I'm not surprised at all.

Concept17 · Jul 24, 2014

sirap said:
I'm so happy I got out of this industry (games, animation, vfx) Loved creating art but wages were just dogshit :/

So you quit what you loved doing because you weren't payed enough? Maybe you never really loved it?

BigDug13 · Jul 24, 2014

Concept17 said:
Fixed. Most indie games are garbage. There are some really great ones of course, but the ratio is bad when you have a gazillion people trying to make games for the first time.

And also a gazillion 2d platformers.

That's why I like indies on console. It's like a "best of" list from the indie scene.

Support NeoGAF

57% of indie game developers made under $500 - Gamasutra Salary Survey 2014 Report

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Banned

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Banned

Banned

As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Similar threads