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[impact]

That's not too bad.

They could make $500 working a week or two at any random job

The problem is there's too many indie games and only <1% of them are actually good. Flooding the market with mediocre games only works in the mobile gaming industry.

 

[Bamihap]

They could make $500 working a week or two at any random job

The problem is there's too many indie games and only <1% of them are actually good. Flooding the market with mediocre games only works in the mobile gaming industry.

It doesn't work in the mobile industry anymore either.

 

[Starwolf_UK]

Are you able to compile a similar list of shitty games on PS3, XBO, Vita, Wii-U, or PS4?

It is becoming a talking point on the Wii U actually but really the worst offender is The Letter which can be beaten in 5 minutes and well see for yourself.

I don't really pay attention to the Wii U eShop offerings a great deal but the bar feels quite a bit lower than other services (which may also be seen as a good thing because it allows more developers to try and helps Nintendo shake off their previously unfriendly image).

Thing is making <$500 basically means you probably won't be releasing an eShop game in Europe (required PEGI rating costs more than that) and nearly everyone has forgotten about Australia (another rating is required which is more than the PEGI rating and consider how much lower the population is there).

 

[Sentenza]

That doesn't seem sustainable. The indie path is scary, man.

Nah.

The average indie game developer isn't making games like this:

but games like this:

Exactly.
The bottom line is: shovelware doesn't sell. Being "indie" doesn't give anyone a free pass to release something sloppy and unappealing.
Also, YES, you'll need to promote your product if you want to make money. No matter how much this outrages you.

 

[AlphaTwo00]

I wonder what's up with the complaints about low salaries, though (for non-indies, I assume). Is $83,000 actually low compared to other industries doing the same kind of work (programming, art, etc.)?

Using a personal example: as a fresh grad in 2007, I started working at a studio in Toronoto as a programmer at $48k CAD. My fellow alumni who chose to enter other fields were making at least 5k to 10k more. By the time I left, I was making 55k(essentially inflation adjusted with a pay grade promotion), while at the same time, those peers were now making anywhere from 10k to 30k more.

It's a well known fact: if you have the know how but want to get paid accordingly to your skills, don't get into games. People are in games because they are passionate about what they do; unfortunately, businesses do end up exploiting this fact to drive salary below the norm.

 

[RicoTheMad]

Nah.


Exactly.
The bottom line is: shovelware doesn't sell. Being "indie" doesn't give anyone a free pass to release something sloppy and unappealing.
Also, YES, you'll need to promote your product if you want to make money. No matter how much this outrages you.

I hope you're speaking from personal experience as an indie developer here?

Nobody is outraged about needing to promote your product but you're talking as if doing that + earning peanuts + spending those peanuts to do it is easy, which is far from the truth. There's a lot of noise out there and gaming sites don't always cover good games, they cover whatever will get them clicks.

Indies have far more limited reach than AAA and the money and time that goes into promoting a game is money and time not spent on your game. Do you know how much it costs to get a booth at an event like PAX or E3? I bet you'd be surprised at the cost of a bare bones no frills booth at any event, without going into things like travel and lodging + food costs.

We're talking about 10k and up here, just for one person. That's hardly easy to pull off for a self funded indie who's establishing themselves in the industry. And the worst part is that it's not even guaranteed to pay for itself, you just have to hope it all works out or you lost 10 grand of your life savings.

There's a lot of money grubbers out there, indie and otherwise. That doesn't mean being an indie is easy. Being a good indie is hard as crap. It's a LOT of work, time, money and sweat. Being a crappy indie is easy, just release your 3 day game on the appstore/greenlight and hope it sticks and then try again if it doesn't. Let's not allow the crappy scam artists out there tarnish the reputation of everyone involved.

 

[Sentenza]

I hope you're speaking from personal experience as an indie developer here?

No?
I'm talking from the personal experience of someone who read tons of indie developers whine about anything imaginable.

Nobody is outraged about needing to promote your product

You should go back to read all the whine about Greenlight and Kickstarter being "popularity contests" (which, by the way, has been proven bullshit several times).

but you're talking as if doing that + earning peanuts + spending those peanuts to do it is easy

No, it's not easy, It's not fucking supposed to be easy; it's a highly competitive environment, which is exactly the point.
Success is not something that people should handle to these developers because they are nice guys, it's something that they need to fight teeth and nails to get.
Which means a high quality product and some serious effort in obtaining all the visibility they can afford to get.

Do you know how much it costs to get a booth at an event like PAX or E3?

If you can't afford don't do it? I've already seen plenty of promising games reaching their audience and gaining visibility out of their sheer awesomeness.
Sometime if no one is paying attention to your cute little project maybe it's time to consider a outraging idea: that it may not be as good as you think.

I bet you'd be surprised at the cost of a bare bones no frills booth at any event, without going into things like travel and lodging + food costs.

I bet I wouldn't.

We're talking about 10k and up here

See? I expected more.

 

[-MD-]

At least 57% of indie games are shovelware so this doesn't surprise me.

 

[synce]

How can indies succeed when most gaming sites only talk about big budget games? If they were doing their jobs properly they'd promote lesser known good titles, not shit you're bound to see advertised everywhere

 

[Blizzard]

I'm still confused by the $500 number.

If the survey is ONLY considering people with $10,000 minimum income from gaming, is the $500 a profit number after expenses or something?