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Cirekiller · Feb 27, 2009

Flying_Phoenix said:
I've always felt that Atlus should put the Persona series on the Wii as the game seems very fit for it.

Persona series for Wii.

Numbered SMT series for PS3/360/PC.

As much as I want to see SMT games on HD consoles, I think that Persona games should go on the PSP or DS. It is hard to find time at home to beat a 90 hour RPG, but doing a day of the Sim part of Persona or going up another 5 floors in a dungeon seems perfect for a bus/train ride to home/work/school.

Segata Sanshiro · Feb 27, 2009

SimpleDesign said:
I'm sure Sega of America will give it the utmost support, just like Valkyria Chronicles.

Sega of America sucks almost as much as Nintendo of America.

SEGA of America released the second Yakuza after the first one sold like shit. And the second one sold like worse shit. There's no way they're going for the third, I'm sure of it.

Valkyria at least got released in English, as do most of SEGA's games that are even remotely potentially viable. Their track record is nowhere near as bad as NoA's has been the last couple of years.

Hcoregamer00 · Feb 27, 2009

bttb said:
First Day Sales (02/26)
[PS3] Ryu ga Gotoku 3 (Sega) - 232,000 (60%)

I said WOW

SimpleDesign said:
I'm sure Sega of America will give it the utmost support, just like Valkyria Chronicles.

Sega of America sucks almost as much as Nintendo of America.

If Nintendo held the Valkyria Franchise it probably would not have a USA release.

Y2Kev · Feb 27, 2009

I think Sega has to try one more time to make Yakuza big. Maybe rebrand it as something different...or just start completely over. Or maybe even charge 39.99 for it until it gets big. But they have to be kicking themselves if they have to cede the west with this franchise.

It's not that different from some HUGE american games.

Error · Feb 27, 2009

I think the problem with Yakuza is the culture barrier, America (or the world for that matter) just doesn't give a fuck about Yakuzas or a game deeply rooted in japanese pop-culture.

I don't think it'll ever catch up, it'd take some amazing marketing skills to make the game sell here.

°°ToMmY°° · Feb 27, 2009

Error said:
I think the problem with Yakuza is the culture barrier, America (or the world for that matter) just doesn't give a fuck about Yakuzas or a game deeply rooted in japanese pop-culture.

I don't think it'll ever catch up, it'd take some amazing marketing skills to make the game sell here.

i think it would need a focused marketing on a focused audience to sell some copies. (nicheness indeed)

AnimeTheme · Feb 27, 2009

Spiegel said:
The latest Musou games have had great legs on psp.

Musou Orochi (51k first week 162 LTD)
Musou Orochi 2 (42k first week 156k LTD)

I'd not call the previsible 380k/400k LTD sales (at least) disappointing

I am playing this game. It's really better than expected. I am not surprised if this game may have some legs.

jj984jj · Feb 27, 2009

Yakuza 3 did amazing well as expected, I wish there was an HD console that sold enough to tell us how well it could really do, I don't expect it to have the legs of the first 2 games (and their best combined). I hope if Sega localizes it I hope they make it multiplat so it has a chance to do better than the first 2 games did (megabombas, both of them). GCCX2 didn't do as well as I expected though, looks like One Piece will probably beat it.

°°ToMmY°° · Feb 27, 2009

jj984jj said:
I hope if Sega localizes it I hope they make it multiplat so it has a chance to do better than the first 2 games did (megabombas, both of them).

they bombed on ps2 (120 millions userbase), how can it sell well on ps360?

jj984jj · Feb 27, 2009

°°ToMmY°° said:
they bombed on ps2 (120 millions userbase), how can it sell well on ps360?

Because everything with even a little hype can sell on the 360 here.

Paracelsus · Feb 27, 2009

jj984jj said:
Because everything with even a little hype can sell on the 360 here.

I'd say no, but let's just say "no".

Loudninja · Feb 27, 2009

jj984jj said:
Because everything with even a little hype can sell on the 360 here.

I really don't think that is true.

donny2112 · Feb 27, 2009

sankao said:
So is it possible for the PS3 YTD to out do the Wii YTD at the end of this year ?

No.

bttb said:
[PSP] Shin Sangoku Musou: Multi Raid (Koei) - 152,000 (60%)

Isn't this a Monster Hunter local-play take on the Shin Sangoku Musou series? If so, good news for any other publishers considering altering their IPs for Monster Hunter-type local play on the PSP.

°°ToMmY°° · Feb 27, 2009

jj984jj said:
Because everything with even a little hype can sell on the 360 here.

dead space did wonders on 360, just like all those jrpgs released this... oh, wait.

jj984jj · Feb 27, 2009

°°ToMmY°° said:
dead space did wonders on 360, just like all those jrpgs released this... oh, wait.

They all did better than the first 2 Yakuza games combined. :lol

°°ToMmY°° · Feb 27, 2009

jj984jj said:
They all did better than the first 2 Yakuza games combined. :lol

counting japan in the equation? :lol

Paracelsus · Feb 27, 2009

jj984jj said:
They all did better than the first 2 Yakuza games combined. :lol

Even KORG-DS probably did better than them. It doesn't take a juggernaut to squash an ant.

It's the same reason why Namco is always so reluctant to bring Tales in America/Europe, it's just not worth it.

They should have try to market Yakuza from the very first episode, now the brand is screwed in the West, doesn't matter who's gonna publish or where's gonna get released.

jj984jj · Feb 27, 2009

°°ToMmY°° said:
counting japan in the equation? :lol

We are talking about potential in the US, aren't we? Sega's done things brilliantly so far by releasing it exclusively on PS3 in Japan, my point was that their sales potential will increase if they release it multiplat in the west.

°°ToMmY°° · Feb 27, 2009

jj984jj said:
We are talking about potential in the US, aren't we? Sega's done things brilliantly so far by releasing it exclusive to PS3 in Japan, my point was that their sales potential will increase if they release it multiplat in the west.

yes and the potential for y3 in US/EU is so low that they don't even want to translate it, let alone porting an engine for three or four more sales in the west.

charlequin · Feb 27, 2009

justchris said:
And you think blanket writing checks is going to significantly improve their 3rd party relations?

I think that when you have a rightfully earned reputation as a miser and a jerk, an important step to repairing that reputation is to start throwing money around in the town square, yes.

Here's the thing: Nintendo doesn't have anyone onboard who knows jack about how big third parties work or who has a good idea of what gamers want. That's just their operating disadvantage. They do, however, have a system that's selling like hotcakes with naked ladies inside -- but no one wants to develop for it because they don't trust Nintendo, they don't want to deal with them, they believe the stigma about third-parties on Nintendo systems, and/or they just don't feel inclined to making lower-powered games -- so NCL has to overcome this resistance somehow.

Money is a way to do this that everyone understands and that's hard to argue with. No one will worry about the "chance" they're taking on Wii with a funded game, because they're not the ones standing to lose money.

My postion has always been that some funded exclusives from Japanese publishers early on would have resulted in some hits, and that would've made greasing the wheels much easier from then on. Yes, MS bought some exclusives early on in the US, but they don't need to buy every exclusive because they proved how well games with shooting sell on their system so everyone now wants a piece of those profits.

Once this kind of early support was locked in, then Nintendo could start worrying about subtler aspects of 3PR like brand extensions, co-marketing, etc. But baby steps, y'know?

Pureauthor said:
Nothing will get 'the kind of long term benefit to developer relations that Nintendo actually needs' aside from 3rd parties finding success on Nintendo systems, and 3rd parties aren't going to find success on Nintendo systems unless there are games on the Nintendo systems, and they aren't going to be games on the Nintendo systems unless Nintendo makes some real incentives for them to be put there (like, say, writing checks).

Yes. Thank you. You are a god amongst men.

This is exactly my position. The goal would be to break the "well I don't want to jump in first" deadlock by paying someone to jump in first so everyone else could see that the water was fine.

schuelma said:
I know I keep saying this, but I really think there is a noticable uptick in 3rd party support for the 2nd half of 2009.

Can you spell this uptick out for me?

freddy · Feb 27, 2009

Its almost like no big games are coming for the Wii in Japan...almost.

Rolf NB · Feb 27, 2009

Hammer24 said:
The question needs to be asked again: whats going to happen first?

360 xing 1mil, PS3 xing 3mil or Wii xing 8mil?

With a little luck, we might see the first two happen within the same week.
The Wii is farther off its milestone and currently not selling fast enough to get there before the PS3 IMO.

Sage00 · Feb 27, 2009

charlequin said:
Can you spell this uptick out for me?

Tales of Ten, FFCC Crystal Bearers, Monster Hunter 3, Muramasa on Wii, literally nothing on PS360.

Pureauthor · Feb 27, 2009

Sage00 said:
Tales of Ten, FFCC Crystal Bearers, Monster Hunter 3, Muramasa on Wii, literally nothing on PS360.

So:
Dying/Diluted Franchise
Spinoff that never really took off
Series whose greatest success was always on portables
Niche, niche, nichey niche.

(Note that these are related to sales, I make no claim to the actual quality of the games)

A trickle of B and C list titles, and that's going to pull the Wii out of its slump?

RpgN · Feb 27, 2009

Pureauthor said:
So:
Dying/Diluted Franchise
Spinoff that never really took off
Series whose greatest success was always on portables
Niche, niche, nichey niche.

(Note that these are related to sales, I make no claim to the actual quality of the games)

A trickle of B and C list titles, and that's going to pull the Wii out of its slump?

DQX?! When it comes in 20XX...

But uhm...What are you expecting? If you haven't followed the discussion, third parties almost have no incentive to bring their big games, that's nintendo's job. With writing checks, helping them out whatever, they're not doing anything.

Pureauthor · Feb 27, 2009

RpgN said:
DQX?! When it comes in 20XX...

But uhm...What are you expecting? If you haven't followed the discussion, third parties almost have no incentive to bring their big games, that's nintendo's job. With writing checks, helping them out whatever, they're not doing anything.

Um, that's exactly the gist of my argument. Nintendo screwed up. Badly. The time to be writing checks was when the Wii was on top of the world a couple of years back, not now when it's struggling to beat even the PS3 on a weekly basis. Writing checks now wouldn't really do much good.

RpgN · Feb 27, 2009

Pureauthor said:
Um, that's exactly the gist of my argument. Nintendo screwed up. Badly. The time to be writing checks was when the Wii was on top of the world a couple of years back, not now when it's struggling to beat even the PS3 on a weekly basis. Writing checks now wouldn't really do much good.

I see, don't mind my comment then

But it really makes you wonder...The wii is selling like crazy for years (At least in the West now) and still third parties don't bring their stuff. Their relation with nintendo must be really unpleasant.

JoshuaJSlone · Feb 27, 2009

Based on the latest Famitsu hardware numbers...
PSP comparisons: After 219 weeks, PSP is where PS2 was at 171.1 weeks (June 9, 2003), where DS was at 97.1 weeks (October 9, 2006), and where GBA was at 147.7 weeks (January 16, 2004).

X360 comparisons: After 167 weeks, X360 is where GCN was at 16.0 weeks (December 30, 2001), where PS3 was at 29.5 weeks (May 30, 2007), and where Wii was at 4.7 weeks (December 29, 2006).

PS3 comparisons: After 119 weeks, PS3 is where PS2 was at 33.6 weeks (October 19, 2000), where PSP was at 58.3 weeks (January 17, 2006), where GCN was at 119.0 weeks (December 21, 2003), and where Wii was at 31.1 weeks (July 2, 2007).

You may notice PS3 and GCN are both at 119 weeks. The streams haven't crossed quite yet, though. Usually one decimal is plenty enough, but in a case where things are so close it doesn't cut it. Through 119 weeks PS3 is still about 4400 units ahead of GCN.

Wii comparisons: After 116 weeks, Wii is where GBA was at 93.8 weeks (January 4, 2003), where DS was at 75.3 weeks (May 9, 2006), where PS2 was at 112.0 weeks (April 21, 2002), and where PSP was at 162.4 weeks (January 16, 2008).

DSi comparisons: After 16 weeks, DSi is where GBASP was at 34.5 weeks (October 8, 2003), and where DSL was at 12.3 weeks (May 23, 2006).

Based on the latest Media Create hardware numbers...
DS vs PSP: Weekly shares of 63.7 / 36.3 bring total shares to 68.8 / 31.2. If DS stopped selling and PSP continued at this week's rate, it would catch up in 477.6 weeks (January 4, 2017).

X360 vs PS3: Weekly shares of 61.1 / 38.9 bring total shares to 24.8 / 75.2. At this week's rates, X360 catches up to PS3 in 205.7 weeks (February 1, 2013). If PS3 stopped selling and X360 continued at this week's rate, it would catch up in 74.6 weeks (July 30, 2010).

PS3 vs Wii: Weekly shares of 48.8 / 51.2 bring total shares to 26.6 / 73.4. If Wii stopped selling and PS3 continued at this week's rate, it would catch up in 307.3 weeks (January 14, 2015).

Week over week, you're either down or you're Xbox 360.

This week's 16,973 is the lowest Wii week ever by several thousand units. Its previous low was 20,412; just two weeks ago.

Through the first eight weeks of the year, almost everything is down by some degree. Here's how the year-to-date year-over-year percents stand as of now.

Wii: -60.6%
DSL+DSi: -5.2%
PS2: -56.0%
PS3: -28.4%
PSP: -39.9%
X360: +166.5%

Home hardware: -45.7%
Portable hardware: -22.1%
Sum of all hardware: -32.5%

cvxfreak · Feb 27, 2009

Wow @ Yakuza 3. Well done.

Eteric Rice · Feb 27, 2009

In the end, we know Nintendo needs to do something now. Iwata himself said a while back, that he knew the popularity couldn't last forever. Now it's time to see if he prepared.

If I were him, I'd be courting Square-Enix and Atlus. Even though RPGs aren't as popular as they used to be, the known franchises still sell. They need some known franchises, and exclusive ones that aren't spin-offs.

donny2112 · Feb 27, 2009

RpgN said:
The wii is selling like crazy for years (At least in the West now) and still third parties don't bring their stuff. Their relation with nintendo must be really unpleasant.

A year ago, I think the prevailing thought was that Japanese companies would be shifting a lot of their support to the Wii, but in NA/EU, they'd continue on with the PS360 since the userbase there was so much greater than in Japan. Fast forward a year and a lot more Western support is coming to the console, but the Japanese support has continued to languish.

Huh? :lol

Busaiku · Feb 27, 2009

donny2112 said:
A year ago, I think the prevailing thought was that Japanese companies would be shifting a lot of their support to the Wii, but in NA/EU, they'd continue on with the PS360 since the userbase there was so much greater than in Japan. Fast forward a year and a lot more Western support is coming to the console, but the Japanese support has continued to languish.

Huh? :lol

The software situation hasn't really changed (well, it's gotten even more Western-friendly, due to the sheer numbers), people were just unaware of it.

People always assumed that it would be seeing Japanese support since the hardware difference was so great, but the software situation painted a different story.
Software was pretty much always ok/bad in Japan, but great in the west.

neojubei · Feb 27, 2009

jj984jj said:
Because everything with even a little hype can sell on the 360 here.

No. just no.

Spiegel · Feb 27, 2009

Eteric Rice said:
In the end, we know Nintendo needs to do something now. Iwata himself said a while back, that he knew the popularity couldn't last forever. Now it's time to see if he prepared.

If I were him, I'd be courting Square-Enix and Atlus. Even though RPGs aren't as popular as they used to be, the known franchises still sell. They need some known franchises, and exclusive ones that aren't spin-offs.

charlequin has said it well before. Courting S-E or Atlus now isn't going to change anything, those games need 2 years of development at least. What S-E team could be doing a super-secret wii game?

We know that these games are being developed internally:

FFXIII - Kitase team
Versus - KH team
Agito XIII - ?
KH BBS - Osaka team
FF:CC - ?

The Square side is busy as far as I know.

Well, Genious Sonority could be doing a game for S-E.

wrowa · Feb 27, 2009

Spiegel said:
charlequin has said it well before. Courting S-E or Atlus now isn't going to change anything, those games need 2 years of development at least. What S-E team could be doing a super-secret wii game?

We know that these games are being developed internally:

FFXIII - Kitase team
Versus - KH team
Agito XIII - ?
KH BBS - Osaka team
FF:CC - ?

The Square side is busy as far as I know.

Well, Genious Sonority could be doing a game for S-E.

FFXIII Versus gets the MH3 treatment and will be released exclusively for Wii!

Believe!

schuelma · Feb 27, 2009

Pureauthor said:
So:
Dying/Diluted Franchise
Spinoff that never really took off
Series whose greatest success was always on portables
Niche, niche, nichey niche.

(Note that these are related to sales, I make no claim to the actual quality of the games)

A trickle of B and C list titles, and that's going to pull the Wii out of its slump?

Obviously Tales isn't what it used to be, but its still a mothership entry and I believe one of charlequin's original examples of a type of game Nintendo should have went after was Vesperia.

Crystal Bearers...Obviously its a spinoff, but it should still be able to sell more than most 3rd party efforts so far.

I firmly disagree with you on Monster Hunter. Yes, its biggest success is on portables but its still a big big franchise. Look at its reception at TGS. Look at Inafune's recent comments about how this game is big for the industry as a whole and that his goal is to set new Wii records with the release. Maybe it won't end up reaching as big an audience as Capcom desires, but it seems perfectly clear that Capcom is pushing it as a top tier title.

Obouro..I wouldn't have included it.

The other franchise I can think of is Samurai Warriors 3.

One final point-If those are all tier B/C titles..what series are clear tier A ones? Final Fantasy? Dragon Quest?

RpgN · Feb 27, 2009

donny2112 said:
A year ago, I think the prevailing thought was that Japanese companies would be shifting a lot of their support to the Wii, but in NA/EU, they'd continue on with the PS360 since the userbase there was so much greater than in Japan. Fast forward a year and a lot more Western support is coming to the console, but the Japanese support has continued to languish.

Huh? :lol

I think the idea behind the Japanese support on the wii comes from smaller companies which can't afford to work on next-gen consoles, in that sense that's still true. The Western support used to neglect the wii, but now they are coming with wii versions of said games because of the huge success. Be it small, port or something else it's still not a good position for the market leader, seeing the HD software (especially Xbox 360) selling so well, Nintendo has a lot of work. Wether it's too late with this gen or not is another matter. We're in a weird time...

Y2Kev · Feb 27, 2009

I would be recruiting more of mainline action stuff. Microsoft seems content "building" their future with "incentives" for a lot of the major publishers and they seem inclined to go along, so I think those are a bit blocked off.

But I wonder if Nintendo could have gotten RGG.

Jokeropia · Feb 27, 2009

Spiegel said:
So psp is doing great because DS has several times the hardware base that the psp does?

Well, DS does have several times the software sales as well. (DS tie-ratio >> PSP tie-ratio.)

Flying_Phoenix · Feb 27, 2009

Not too surprised at Yakuza sales. The franchise has been seriously built up since the PS2 special priced editions.

Eteric Rice said:
Well, didn't Iwata say there was going to be a few announcements at E3? I guess we can wait and see, but I'm not holding my breath.

The problem is that Nintendo always says this. They stated the same last E3 and the previous E3 before that. I mean it really just depends if things are going their way or not. I expect some third party significant titles to be unveiled during the press event season but I doubt anything comparable to the PS2.

Cirekiller said:
As much as I want to see SMT games on HD consoles, I think that Persona games should go on the PSP or DS. It is hard to find time at home to beat a 90 hour RPG, but doing a day of the Sim part of Persona or going up another 5 floors in a dungeon seems perfect for a bus/train ride to home/work/school.

I always thought that the DS would be a perfect match for Megaten games. They're long, addicting, easy to pick up and play, and fun. Not to mention tech and graphics have never meant shit for the series. With an exception of Nocturne all the games were always far behind on a technical and graphical standpoint.

I mean compare and contrast this to what other developers were doing at the time on the respected systems.

(pic of the PC version though the Saturn version was practically identical)

I mean really anybody who would complain about the Megaten series being on a lowend console truly doesn't understand the series.

Error said:
I think the problem with Yakuza is the culture barrier, America (or the world for that matter) just doesn't give a fuck about Yakuzas or a game deeply rooted in japanese pop-culture.

I don't think it'll ever catch up, it'd take some amazing marketing skills to make the game sell here.

I agree with this for the most part. People always wonder why games like Tony Hawk and Halo don't move units in Japan, and the honest reason is because it isn't appealing to Japanese because it is geared toward Western (particularly American) culture. Yakuza is a perfect example of the opposite happening. I mean yes gangs interest America (see Grand Theft Auto) but in a Japanese setting, with Japanese characters, with Japanese centric situations? In terms of why the first two bombed well the first had little marketing and the last came out on the PS2. I think the series can carve in a small niche in the West but I doubt it can ever become mainstream unless you have Nintendo quality marketing behind it.

jj984jj said:
Because everything with even a little hype can sell on the 360 here.

:lol :lol :lol :lol What makes it funny is that you are referring to a SEGA game.

jj984jj said:
We are talking about potential in the US, aren't we? Sega's done things brilliantly so far by releasing it exclusively on PS3 in Japan, my point was that their sales potential will increase if they release it multiplat in the west.

Were you idle during the first 3 years of this generation? I mean pretty much every SEGA game on the 360 and PS3 either bombed or underperformed.

charlequin said:
I think that when you have a rightfully earned reputation as a miser and a jerk, an important step to repairing that reputation is to start throwing money around in the town square, yes.

I may be out of the loop but is Nintendo currently really bad to work with with third parties in terms of a being strict and cheating over the publisher basis or is it the ye olde 90's image shadow still clinging on to them?

Pureauthor said:
So:
Dying/Diluted Franchise
Spinoff that never really took off
Series whose greatest success was always on portables
Niche, niche, nichey niche.

(Note that these are related to sales, I make no claim to the actual quality of the games)

A trickle of B and C list titles, and that's going to pull the Wii out of its slump?

Crystal Chronicles did significantly well on the Wii and has made a name for itself on the DS. And while Monster Hunter is big on portables it still was in no way a lightweight in the console space.

Eteric Rice said:
In the end, we know Nintendo needs to do something now. Iwata himself said a while back, that he knew the popularity couldn't last forever. Now it's time to see if he prepared.

If I were him, I'd be courting Square-Enix and Atlus. Even though RPGs aren't as popular as they used to be, the known franchises still sell. They need some known franchises, and exclusive ones that aren't spin-offs.

Being honest I'd work with other companies to create new and unique IP's that will be a bridge to the casual and core Japanese market. With an exception of the Megaten series and the always popular Dragon Quest, RPG's in Japan are fading away into obscurity compared to their predecessors. Gamers want something new and refreshing. Monster Hunter made it big because it was a new and unique experience to most Japanese gamers (local get togethers to perform raids and hunts) and Persona saved the Megaten series as it was highly unique, different, and fun. To me Nintendo has to bring in third parties and persuade them to think outside the box. Otherwise they'll just get support from already dwindling franchises.

SolidSnakex · Feb 27, 2009

Y2Kev said:
But I wonder if Nintendo could have gotten RGG.

I kinda doubt it unless Sega forced Nagoshi into it. Here's what he told Famitsu earlier this year

Stormbringer said:
Nagoshi :

- Before, you wouldn't make software for hardware which wouldn't sell. Things are now different. It's now a matter of fighting so the resources dedicated to the HD consoles wouldn't decrease.
- Making titles that actively justify the existence of the high-end consoles is a personal mission

Y2Kev · Feb 27, 2009

Nagoshi is so awesome :lol

Flying_Phoenix · Feb 27, 2009

Y2Kev said:
Nagoshi is so awesome :lol

He seems really dedicated. I'm not surprised though he probably prefers his games on the most high end hardware available and in Japan the only systems performing "well" now are those that aren't up to level in tech with any of the previous generation consoles.

It may sound strange but I can sorta understand. I mean I'm not a developer but if I was I would have some standards to keep some forms of gaming alive (I.E. If I was a developer I would only create 2D games on consoles and have the sprites be displayed no lower then 480p).

Eteric Rice · Feb 27, 2009

Flying_Phoenix said:
Being honest I'd work with other companies to create new and unique IP's that will be a bridge to the casual and core Japanese market. With an exception of the Megaten series and the always popular Dragon Quest, RPG's in Japan are fading away into obscurity compared to their predecessors. Gamers want something new and refreshing. Monster Hunter made it big because it was a new and unique experience to most Japanese gamers (local get togethers to perform raids and hunts) and Persona saved the Megaten series as it was highly unique, different, and fun. To me Nintendo has to bring in third parties and persuade them to think outside the box. Otherwise they'll just get support from already dwindling franchises.

I would agree with you if the Japanese weren't currently deathy afraid of buying new IPs. Nintendo needs to get franchises that are familiar to the Japanese before doing the new IP thing. Getting the Persona, Kingdom Hearts, Suikoden, etc fanbases on there would be a pretty big help for any future innovative RPGs or games.

SolidSnakex · Feb 27, 2009

Flying_Phoenix said:
He seems really dedicated. I'm not surprised though he probably prefers his games on the most high end hardware available and in Japan the only systems performing "well" now are those that aren't up to level in tech with any of the previous generation consoles.

It may sound strange but I can sorta understand. I mean I'm not a developer but if I was I would have some standards to keep some forms of gaming alive (I.E. If I was a developer I would only create 2D games on consoles and have the sprites be displayed no lower then 480p).

Given the continued support from Japanese developers toward HD consoles, you've got to wonder how many others feel the same way as he does. Kojima has said something similar even though he's also said that he'd like to make a Wii game.

Flying_Phoenix · Feb 27, 2009

Eteric Rice said:
I would agree with you if the Japanese weren't currently deathy afraid of buying new IPs. Nintendo needs to get franchises that are familiar to the Japanese before doing the new IP thing. Getting the Persona, Kingdom Hearts, Suikoden, etc fanbases on there would be a pretty big help for any future innovative RPGs or games.

The Japanese aren't afraid of buying new IP's, it's just the fact that publishers are afraid of releasing them. I mean just look at White Knight and Layton and well hell anything released by Level 5 seems to have found success in Japan. If you think about most new IP's have been targeted toward the Western market and those that haven't were either sent to die (Fragile, Zack and Wiki), didn't receive the proper marketing they should have (I'm not in Japan so I can't answer this, Segata please help!), or were on a niche console (Inifnite Undiscovery, Last Remnant, Lost Odyessy). Even then so the list of games are short and they usually fall into the "been there done that" stigma.

I mean the ideas and talent are still there, but the problem lies in the Japanese development habits or the developers size and financial situation. I mean while games like Kizuna, Muramasa, and King's Story look awesome they're from developers who can't achieve that "epic" feel due to their resources. And those who can often play it safe with already established names. It took 8 years (or more) for the three main developers of The World Ends With You to finally move onto developing. Imagine if they were around during the last generation or if they worked on Wii, PS3, or 360 games? I realize that there are benefits with the Japanese way of development but it's time to die or evolve. Either hand you talented and fresh developer decently budgeted projects or continue with sequel after sequel while sending the lesser games out the gate with little to no marketing backing.

Serious gaming is a dying market in Japan and it really isn't hard to see why. Japanese publishers have really dropped the ball in terms of erosion and impact on their games and brand.

SolidSnakex said:
Given the continued support from Japanese developers toward HD consoles, you've got to wonder how many others feel the same way as he does. Kojima has said something similar even though he's also said that he'd like to make a Wii game.

Most Japanese developers aren't supporting HD consoles, most are supporting handhelds. Besides Capcom and Square-Enix most aren't really focused on the HD systems. Actually thinking of it they are all very well spread out between HD systems, handhelds, and Wii.

And I know there are many who feel the same way he does but you have to think of the fresh and unique developers who don't as well as the countless who are eager to develop on any platform they can get their hands on. Again look at "The World Ends With You" developers they didn't care that they were developing for the DS they just wanted to make games. The problem is that Japanese publishers aren't letting them have the gateway.

charlequin · Feb 27, 2009

schuelma said:
Obviously Tales isn't what it used to be, but its still a mothership entry and I believe one of charlequin's original examples of a type of game Nintendo should have went after was Vesperia.

I actually raised Vesperia specifically because it made it so clear that Tales was for sale to the highest bidder, but yeah, I don't actually disagree per se that Tales of Ten is a bad pickup.

One final point-If those are all tier B/C titles..what series are clear tier A ones? Final Fantasy? Dragon Quest?

I think your A tier (A, AA, and AAA) pretty much covers anything that would've sold, I dunno, 400k+ on PS2. Tales obviously used to qualify but I'm not sure how well it does now in the present. MGS certainly qualifies. DMC. Biohazard. SRW. Onimusha. Musou. RgG. Ridge Racer. Virtua Fighter.

Flying_Phoenix said:
I may be out of the loop but is Nintendo currently really bad to work with with third parties in terms of a being strict and cheating over the publisher basis or is it the ye olde 90's image shadow still clinging on to them?

I just meant that they earned it back in the day and have never really demonstrably repudiated it.

Kagari · Feb 27, 2009

wrowa said:
FFXIII Versus gets the MH3 treatment and will be released exclusively for Wii!

Believe!

Don't speak such things!

jeremy1456 · Feb 27, 2009

Kagari said:
Don't speak such things!

A year ago you would have laughed in wrowa's face and called him/her foolish for even suggesting that such a thing were possible.

But now, well, it seems times have changed.

donny2112 · Feb 28, 2009

Random thoughts of dumb moves by third-parties in regards to Nintendo systems:

* Namco releasing Soul Calibur II with Link raised the profile and awareness of the game with Nintendo gamers setting up the series for strong potential success on Nintendo consoles. Soul Calibur III then comes out exclusively for PS2, and Soul Calibur IV comes out exclusively for PS360.

* Eidos decides to stop publishing games on Nintendo consoles. They were in charge of the original LEGO Star Wars. Therefore, LEGO Star Wars was originally only released for the PS2/Xbox. After the success of the PS2/Xbox versions, LucasArts applied pressure and the game was released for the GameCube six months later. IIRC, it outsold the Xbox version. Eidos didn't publish LEGO Star Wars II.

* Ubisoft generated loads of positive feelings with Nintendo gamers for saying that they were going to be onboard with the Wii from Day 1 and wanted to be the number one third-party publisher on the Wii. They start out with Red Steel, Rayman Raving Rabbids, and loads of crap. They then admit to releasing said crap, and say that they'll now strive for "Nintendo-like quality." Party Babiesz is born soon after.

Works in progress:

* EA says they admit to betting on the wrong horse in putting the bulk of their development on the PS360. They then later blame the Wii for their poor quarterly results despite releasing jack-all for the console in that quarter. They then say that they'll be bringing core titles to the Wii and use Dead Space as an example. They then convert Dead Space to a light gun game.

* Capcom makes an intentional effort to build up the Resident Evil audience on the GameCube. They have relatively great success doing so, before deciding to announce the PS2 port of the most anticipated GameCube Resident Evil, RE4, before the GameCube version is released. Capcom then starts off brilliantly on the Wii by bringing the Director's Cut re-release of RE4 on Wii that they should've had on GameCube. They follow up that obvious desire for more Resident Evil on the system with a quick turnaround on a light-gun shooter with some addition to the overall Resident Evil mythos. 15 months later, Wii has gotten two Japan-only, direct GameCube ports with little change and Resident Evil 5 is launching exclusively on the PS360. Also see: Dead Rising 2 being announced as a PS360 exclusive before Dead Rising Wii is released.

* Konami decides to advance the PES brand with almost universally praised controls in a Wii port of the PS2 version. They then continue to release that version last of all the releases and around 6 months after the first versions come out for the PS360.

Anybody else care to add some more examples?

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