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scitek · Jul 21, 2015

duckroll said:
http://www.wmdportal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/WMD_Overview_160212.pdf

This is the original overview pitch pdf for their crowdfunding portal announcing Project CARS as the first project back in 2012. Check out pages 16, 19, 28, and 36. Especially page 28.

Now, by the same token, can't PS3/360 owners be just as mad? Or does that not count because it still came to a PlayStation and Xbox console?

BernardoOne said:
In the case of Project Cars it's actually an investment. You will actually get the money you invested back and then some profit on top.

Which makes the complaints even more ridiculous:

You get to keep a PC copy
You get your money back
You get profit on it, even

I invested like $12 or something for an early build years ago, but they later said I'd only get a discount on the final game or something, so I didn't bother.

Solid Samus · Jul 21, 2015

Ninja Dom said:
Not necessarily inferior, dat rear view mirror on the Gamepad tho.

I like awesome gamepad features as much as the next guy but if the tradeoff for them were a sub-25 framerate and a low res, or regressed physics/simulation models and fewer ingame features, you'd better believe the Wii U version would still be considered inferior by any reasonable person

Lonely1 · Jul 21, 2015

scitek said:
Now, by the same token, can't PS3/360 owners be just as mad? Or does that not count because it still came to a PlayStation and Xbox console?

Yes, they can't. IDK why they aren't, though.

EDarkness · Jul 21, 2015

Ninja Scooter said:
From the sounds of it they didn't take any money for console versions. Anyone who backed this project was still going to have to buy the PS4/PS3/360/XBone/Wii U versions separately if they wanted them. The only thing promised as an actual product to backers was a PC version code.

Hmmm...I remember being about to give them money a few years back since they were talking about console versions of the game (specifically 360/PS3). For some reason I held back, but I thought that was part of the development doc at the time. Of course, I could be mis-remembering that.

Still, at the very least they were pimping the Wii U version.

Here's an interview that kinda drives that home.
http://www.gamereactor.eu/grtv/?id=105711

plufim · Jul 21, 2015

Rayge said:
If you read the article. The crowd funding was cancelled on December 27th of 2012.

Oops, I put in the article date.

Still, for 7 months you could pledge under the pretence a WiiU version was one of those being made.

_machine · Jul 21, 2015

That overly-antagonistic quote isn't from the developers, it's from a forum member whose post got stickied ages ago, and has since been edited: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?34197-You-want-to-complain-about-Pcars-Read-me-first!!!

I question some of the developers way of communication at times, but c'mon that's just ridiculous and victim-blaming.

Smiles and Cries · Jul 21, 2015

KingSnake said:
I think nobody can argue against the economic rationale behind the cancellation decision. It was clear since they announced that they drop the PS360 versions, but they kept on talking about the Wii U version. I understand the cancellation, I don't understand the continuous lies about it.

People didn't buy a PC version. Some of the backers got a PC version as a reward. People invested in the damn pizza place that now is selling only 1 pizza out of 4 initially pitched.

the lies are part of the reason I am not downloading the PS4 version right now
I love racing games but racing sims are not something I got into

the way they kept promoting the GamePad use for this game made it feel like something worth a try at least

I don't own a racing wheel for PS4 but that PDF with the hyped WiiU features made it seem like these guys really had a plan for WiiU

I was still going to buy the Wii U version but now you just have to see this as ride a buzz hype of lies

they had plenty of chances to jump off the WiiU talk when EA and Ubisoft publicly said no new Wii U titles

they could have cancelled then while the Wii U was getting no love but nope they keep this bullshit going

I feel like going out and buying a physical copy of NFSMWU those guys tried and delivered a pretty nice looking racer on Wii U I wish more Wii U owners would support that even if it was EA

Unknown One · Jul 21, 2015

Ninja Dom said:
Not necessarily inferior, dat rear view mirror on the Gamepad tho.

As oppose to rear view mirrow on the screen. Pointless gimmick that hinders gameplay by making you look away from the screen.

Dynomutt · Jul 21, 2015

Never thought this was going to launch day one. Too much red tape and talk. Kinda sad.

Nairume · Jul 21, 2015

scitek said:
Now, by the same token, can't PS3/360 owners be just as mad? Or does that not count because it still came to a PlayStation and Xbox console?

They can, but the difference here is that the PS3/360 versions were dropped a while ago while SMS spent the past couple of years saying the WiiU version was still fine.

plufim · Jul 21, 2015

Updated my previous post fixing the end date of pledging, but also updated the date that the WiiU version was revealed:

WiiU version was announced in January 2012:
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/29031/project-cars-confirmed-for-wii-u

WiiU information was in the infamous pdf from May 2012 - while pledging was still on the table:
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/30045/details-on-wii-u-version-of-project-cars-emerge

Eurogamer has crowdfunding coming to an end in December 2012:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-25-slightly-mad-to-stop-accepting-funds-for-project-cars

For AN ENTIRE YEAR people could pledge under the pretense a WiiU version was being made. The WiiU version was never a reward, but that's beside the goddam point.

edit: yes, 350/PS3 owners should also have been mad. WiiU has the added bonus of being strung along by an extra year, but it's still all a load of horse shit!

phanphare · Jul 21, 2015

Lonely1 said:
Yes, they can't. IDK why they aren't, though.

because the game was cancelled in favor of their next gen counterparts, most likely

if they had cancelled the Wii U version at the same time, instead of using it as an opportunity to jump on the "Wii U is next gen" bandwagon, then we wouldn't have this thread or attitude towards the devs

now Wii U owners are getting the same excuse as the PS360 owners did years ago, which is totally valid, but it's just a weeeee bit too late and comes after one too many statements to the contrary.

Scoops · Jul 21, 2015

AstroNut325 said:
If and when this was ever slated for Wii U, it was because no one expected the Wii U to be barely on par with 7-8 year old hardware. The blame for this falls on Nintendo.

100% wrong

Ninja Scooter · Jul 21, 2015

EDarkness said:
Hmmm...I remember being about to give them money a few years back since they were talking about console versions of the game (specifically 360/PS3). For some reason I held back, but I thought that was part of the development doc at the time. Of course, I could be mis-remembering that.

Still, at the very least they were pimping the Wii U version.

Here's an interview that kinda drives that home.
http://www.gamereactor.eu/grtv/?id=105711

Of course they were, but lots of companies pimp versions of games that eventually get cancelled. It happens in this industry. I don't see this as any different. They didn't take money for Wii U versions of the game. Did they string people alone? Were they just overly ambitious? Who knows? But everyone who backed got what they were promised. This talk of lawsuits or legal action is just silly. This is no different than any other game getting cancelled. The fact that the original version it's based on (PC, which came out) was crowdfunded doesn't make it any different.

family_guy · Jul 21, 2015

xzeldax3 said:
PCars 2 for NX confirmed

Depends on the specs.

Solid Samus · Jul 21, 2015

Smiles and Cries said:
I feel like going out and buying a physical copy of NFSMWU those guys tried and delivered a pretty nice looking racer on Wii U I wish more Wii U owners would support that even if it was EA

It's not as though Most Wanted was built from the ground up for Wii U. It's a great port, sure (and a game worth owning, I loved it myself personally), but half the reason it gets recognition is because it's a great port that came out during a wave of mostly half-assed last gen ports. And it's worth considering that it's not a sim racer, it doesn't have loads of advanced physics going on in the background, its most intensive element is its visuals and it was a game designed to run primarily on Xbox 360 and PS3. Porting over a game like that to Wii U doesn't pose quite the same challenge as designing a modern sim racer for that platform, I'd assume.

Shiggy · Jul 21, 2015

Games get cancelled. From what I see, nobody lost money on their investment and it's more than doubtful that a Wii U version would've added any profits (more than likely: it would've have led to losses for investors).

A Wii U version was never up for sale by SNS. Preorders at retailers were cancelled already.

Ninja Scooter · Jul 21, 2015

Solid Samus said:
It's not as though Most Wanted was built from the ground up for Wii U. It's a great port, sure (and a game worth owning, I loved it myself personally), but half the reason it gets recognition is because it's a great port that came out during a wave of mostly half-assed last gen ports. And it's worth considering that it's not a sim racer, it doesn't have loads of advanced physics going on in the background, its most intensive element is its visuals and it was a game designed to run primarily on Xbox 360 and PS3. Porting over a game like that to Wii U doesn't pose quite the same challenge as designing a modern sim racer for that platform, I'd assume.

But they both have cars in them? Can't they just like, add a few extra lines of code or something? Damn lazy devs!

BronzeWolf · Jul 21, 2015

AstroNut325 said:
If and when this was ever slated for Wii U, it was because no one expected the Wii U to be barely on par with 7-8 year old hardware. The blame for this falls on Nintendo.

WTF

Smiles and Cries · Jul 21, 2015

plufim said:
Updated my previous post fixing the end date of pledging, but also updated the date that the WiiU version was revealed:

WiiU version was in that pdf from May 2012:
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/30045/details-on-wii-u-version-of-project-cars-emerge

But was announced in January 2012:
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/29031/project-cars-confirmed-for-wii-u

Eurogamer has crowdfunding coming to an end in December 2012:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-25-slightly-mad-to-stop-accepting-funds-for-project-cars

For AN ENTIRE YEAR people could pledge under the pretense a WiiU version was being made. The WiiU version was never a reward, but that's beside the goddam point.

we need this as part of the OP or see: duckroll's posts many pages back posting the same PDF

TheAdmiester · Jul 21, 2015

BronzeWolf said:
What hurts is that they brought this to the PS4 but not the WiiU. Like the PS4 was never planned in the first place! WTF

That's because the PS4 is a popular platform that doesn't have a prehistoric CPU, it makes far more sense.

Reset · Jul 21, 2015

Lazy Devs. Am I right?

))

Shiggy · Jul 21, 2015

Smiles and Cries said:
we need this as part of the OP or see: duckroll's posts many pages back posting the same PDF

You were never eligible to receive a Wii U copy. At that point they planned a Wii u version, which however got cancelled. Yup, surprise, games get cancelled.

_machine · Jul 21, 2015

Smiles and Cries said:
I feel like going out and buying a physical copy of NFSMWU those guys tried and delivered a pretty nice looking racer on Wii U I wish more Wii U owners would support that even if it was EA

Well you know some of the same developers worked on that

EDarkness · Jul 21, 2015

Ninja Scooter said:
Of course they were, but lots of companies pimp versions of games that eventually get cancelled. It happens in this industry. I don't see this as any different. They didn't take money for Wii U versions of the game. Did they string people alone? Were they just overly ambitious? Who knows? But everyone who backed got what they were promised. This talk of lawsuits or legal action is just silly. This is no different than any other game getting cancelled. The fact that the original version it's based on (PC, which came out) was crowdfunded doesn't make it any different.

I'm not saying that people need to sue. I'm just saying that they strung people along and it's really kinda shady. You're right, things the canceled all the time, but that never makes it right. Things happen...if it were really that simple, then I'll just tell my landlord the next time I can't pay the rent that "things happen all the time, so it's fine." Heh, heh. Just being silly.

Still, they're not helping their reputation and they should have been up front with people long time ago. My main problem is that they're trying to pass the blame instead of accepting it. I'm a firm believer of personal accountability.

Dicer · Jul 21, 2015

BkzUzi said:
Lazy Devs. Am I right?

))

No, just dishonest ones...

Ninja Scooter · Jul 21, 2015

EDarkness said:
I'm not saying that people need to sue. I'm just saying that they strung people along and it's really kinda shady. You're right, things the canceled all the time, but that never makes it right. Things happen...if it were really that simple, then I'll just tell my landlord the next time I can't pay the rent that "things happen all the time, so it's fine." Heh, heh. Just being silly.

Still, they're not helping their reputation and they should have been up front with people long time ago. My main problem is that they're trying to pass the blame instead of accepting it. I'm a firm believer of personal accountability.

Maybe they really have been working on the WIi U version up until recently? Like I said, they might have been foolishly over ambitious but I don't get why people automatically assume something nefarious. If they were just going to string people along to raise funding and raise the games profile, why would they target Wii U hardcore sim racing fans? Hell the proposed existence of PS3 and Xbox 360 versions probably did a lot more for them from that angle, as those two platforms actually had a built in sim racing audience thanks to stuff like Forza and Gran Turismo.

Smiles and Cries · Jul 21, 2015

Solid Samus said:
It's not as though Most Wanted was built from the ground up for Wii U. It's a great port, sure (and a game worth owning, I loved it myself personally), but half the reason it gets recognition is because it's a great port that came out during a wave of mostly half-assed last gen ports. And it's worth considering that it's not a sim racer, it doesn't have loads of advanced physics going on in the background, its most intensive element is its visuals and it was a game designed to run primarily on Xbox 360 and PS3. Porting over a game like that to Wii U doesn't pose quite the same challenge as designing a modern sim racer for that platform, I'd assume.

I totally agree with you on this but this is not what the dev was selling to Wii U owners in that PDF

they made it sound like the Wii U could do it so who is to call them liars after you saw nfsMWU

what you say makes total sense for why the WiiU could not run the same sim physics and code

but fuck the PDF and hype talk from SMS are blatant lies when you consider the truth of what is really possible here

NoMoreTrolls · Jul 21, 2015

KingSnake said:
But that's the model that Project CARS used. Not the kickstarter model.

Ninja Scooter said:
Project Cars was not your typical Kickstarter we've all grown accustomed too though. It really was an investment.

BernardoOne said:
In the case of Project Cars it's actually an investment. You will actually get the money you invested back and then some profit on top.

Which makes the complaints even more ridiculous:

You get to keep a PC copy
You get your money back
You get profit on it, even

Alright, gents. Thanks for the correction. Lots of people were mentioning kickstarter in the thread so I assumed it was a kickstarter lol.

Mexen · Jul 21, 2015

Just downscale assets. What if NX is 3DS successor and Wii U successor isn't announced for another year?
Do we want similar sentiments regarding "rehashing" games on that platform like we saw when some last gen games were brought to Wii U a la DX:HR?

Damaniel · Jul 21, 2015

Nosgotham said:
This. Devs just aren't willing to put in the effort imo. Nfs on wiiu runs and looks great so I know it can be done. Glad I didn't back this one.

NFS doesn't have anything more than minimal physics simulation. PCars is built around a relatively computationally expensive physics model. Even if the Wii U GPU could keep up (which I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and say it could at least manage at 720p), the CPU is woefully inadequate for the task. Chalking it up to 'lazy devs' is a lazy argument.

Perhaps Slightly Mad should have fessed up earlier once they realized that the Wii U was too underpowered to do justice to their game, but I really believe that they gave it a shot and threw in the towel to concentrate on platforms where the game would run (and sell) better. I'd hardly call the creators of such a well-crafted sim lazy, but I would call the hardware designers over at Nintendo uninspired and excessively conservative.

fernoca · Jul 21, 2015

Shiggy said:
You were never eligible to receive a Wii U copy. At that point they planned a Wii u version, which however got cancelled. Yup, surprise, games get cancelled.

Again, is not about the game been cancelled and neither about the power if the Wii U. Is about how from 2012 to 2015 they talked about a Wii U version that they claimed it "ran beautifully" on Wii U, when no such version even existed. It wasn't until recently that they started working on it and couldn't get it running.

The scope changed of course, but a little more transparency would've been better. "We might port it to Wii U, we will try after the other versions are finished"...

..instead of nearly 3 years of "it's coming, it looks beautiful, it handles wells even with the dynamic changes, it runs well" ...

..."is not coming, it was always a maybe".

Brofield · Jul 21, 2015

oti xero said:
Project Cars: No
Rayman Legends exclusivity: No
A D&D game in which the GamePad is used by the DM: No
POKÉMON SNAP 2 LIKE WHAT THE HELL: No

Wii U was weird. Awesome games though.

Still is weird, but I feel you.

If I still get this for PS4 later, it'll be used. I'll be incredibly wary of this sketchshow if they do make Nintendo promises again they can't be bothered to fulfill. I won't dare reward behaviour like this.

_machine · Jul 21, 2015

Mexen said:
Just downscale assets. What if NX is 3DS successor and Wii U successor isn't announced for another year?
Do we want similar sentiments regarding "rehashing" games on that platform like we saw when some last gen games were brought to Wii U a la DX:HR?

You can't downscale an entire physics system (just the resolution and tick of it, which apparently isn't enough in this case), which is the culprit here as well as the draw heavy engine (as in cpu->gpu interaction).

Bots are better than you · Jul 21, 2015

I would love to see the reactions and the amount of people defending the developers for this huge lie and fuck-up if the version cancelled was the PS4 one.

Thinking of "In order to use the highest graphical fidelity and physical calculations, we had to drop the PS4 version."

I bet the shitstorm would be "DQ9 on DS"-like or "MH3 on Wii"-like big.

KingSnake · Jul 21, 2015

markao said:
There seam to be a lot of non-backers extremely concerned for those that did back the game.

There might be also a lot of backers just defending their investment against all the facts, too.

Ninja Scooter · Jul 21, 2015

Bots are better than you said:
I would love to see the reactions and the amount of people defending the developers for this huge lie and fuck-up if the version cancelled was the PS4 one.

Thinking of "In order to use the highest graphical fidelity and physical calculations, we had to drop the PS4 version."

I bet the shitstorm would be "DQ9 on DS"-like or "MH3 on Wii"-like big.

It would suck just as much as any game being cancelled, but it wouldn't require some kind of expose or investigation.

EDarkness · Jul 21, 2015

Ninja Scooter said:
Maybe they really have been working on the WIi U version up until recently? Like I said, they might have been foolishly over ambitious but I don't get why people automatically assume something nefarious. If they were just going to string people along to raise funding and raise the games profile, why would they target Wii U hardcore sim racing fans? Hell the proposed existence of PS3 and Xbox 360 versions probably did a lot more for them from that angle, as those two platforms actually had a built in sim racing audience thanks to stuff like Forza and Gran Turismo.

I say that because I'm working on my own Wii U port and it should be pretty clear in the beginning of porting what the situation is going to look like. From all the years they've been stringing people along, they should have known long before now what was going on there and acted accordingly. Porting my game to the Wii U so far has been a bit challenging, but I know good and well the game will run and it's only been a couple of months into the porting process. For them, it's supposedly been years. They should have known. So I'm not gonna believe that they're just now finding that out...unless they were never working on that version to begin with.

Condom · Jul 21, 2015

Bots are better than you said:
I would love to see the reactions and the amount of people defending the developers for this huge lie and fuck-up if the version cancelled was the PS4 one.

Thinking of "In order to use the highest graphical fidelity and physical calculations, we had to drop the PS4 version."

I bet the shitstorm would be "DQ9 on DS"-like or "MH3 on Wii"-like big.

More people would be upset because of the larger marketshare, nothing special there.

Wouldn't be a valid uproar anyway IMO, as an early backer: The game was a PC project from the get-go. Console versions were simply a bonus.

Mory Dunz · Jul 21, 2015

But really, not sure how anyone can defend this based on the evidence in this thread.

Noobcraft · Jul 21, 2015

Not surprising. The game looks graphically poor on both current gen consoles, and the Wii U version would have to be scaled back pretty far in terms of simulation and visuals to achieve something that plays well. My personal impressions of the game (I own the PS4 version) are mixed at best. It has a lot of great features (qualifying, weather, huge races) but it lacks polish and has massive screen tearing.

GabeTheGrouch76 · Jul 21, 2015

Writing was on the wall for months, considering the amount of grief the Wii U was giving to them when they tried to port it. So for the game being cancelled is not too surprising to me.

That said, it just makes the developer look rather dishonest, as their PR claimed such a version of the game was possible for the past two-three years when they were accepting funding for the game. So at one point in time, people could fund the game under the assumption that the Wii U version was not only being made, it was also definitely possible. The staff of the game's forum stickying a post of the guy ranting against people for being disappointed about the Wii U version being canceled is just twisting the knife to the point of spitefulness.

EDIT: OK so that forum post and its forum stickying was done a month ago, but it still looks like really crass behavior on the developer's part all the same.

_machine · Jul 21, 2015

KingSnake said:
There might be also a lot of backers just defending their investment against all the facts, too.

To be fair, not that much will affect it anymore, given that most crucial part of the release cycle has passed. If anything, we as backers are losing potential revenue, as small as it might be, but we were never obligated to get a Wii U version to the market.

Kriken · Jul 21, 2015

Honestly I'm not surprised by this, the writing was on the wall when the PS360 versions were canned. I think the worst part about it was that they kept saying the Wii U version would be coming as well, would've been easier to accept for a lot of people if they just cancelled it alongside the PS360 versions

foxuzamaki · Jul 21, 2015

silkysmooth said:
If the Wii U version was never supposed to be a thing, where would all the hype for it come from? Even before the talk that it might be cancelled people were hyping it up. It didn't come out of thin air. It had to come from the people making the game, no?

I remember it being such a sure thing for WiiU that in 2012 it was apart of the Wiiu sizzle reel

Smiles and Cries · Jul 21, 2015

_machine said:
Well you know some of the same developers worked on that

if so maybe they learn a lesson from those poor ass sales

I am still salty about the no Airport DLC for U

still played the hell out of that game, I wish DriveClub has some city driving

lies are lies folks I would not touch The Crew with a 10 foot pole after the shitty demo
but I got to admire that Ubisoft never pimped a Wii U version for that shit

frequency · Jul 21, 2015

SmokyDave said:
I don't get the bit where a game you're eager to play releases on a console you own, and you deliberately wait for a version that was always going to be objectively inferior in every way.

I know it's really hard for some people here on NeoGAF to believe that there are others who don't care that much about graphics and 60 fps. But I'm one of those others. I care more about gameplay features, like gamepad utilization. Performance and graphics are a pretty minor factor in games to me.

_machine · Jul 21, 2015

foxuzamaki said:
I remember it being such a sure thing for WiiU that in 2012 it was apart of the Wiiu sizzle reel

So was the game planned to be released years earlier and on different platforms, but as always in game development, nothing is a promise, and everything can change. That doesn't make the communication any more better though, and they absolutely should have been more open about the general situation with the particular version, despite that skirting the edges of platform holder rules. We did know that the Wii U version was on the backburner until the release of the PS4/XBO/PC versions.

DooMAGE · Jul 21, 2015

plufim said:
Updated my previous post fixing the end date of pledging, but also updated the date that the WiiU version was revealed:

WiiU version was announced in January 2012:
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/29031/project-cars-confirmed-for-wii-u

WiiU information was in the infamous pdf from May 2012 - while pledging was still on the table:
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/30045/details-on-wii-u-version-of-project-cars-emerge

Eurogamer has crowdfunding coming to an end in December 2012:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-25-slightly-mad-to-stop-accepting-funds-for-project-cars

For AN ENTIRE YEAR people could pledge under the pretense a WiiU version was being made. The WiiU version was never a reward, but that's beside the goddam point.

edit: yes, 350/PS3 owners should also have been mad. WiiU has the added bonus of being strung along by an extra year, but it's still all a load of horse shit!

This is worse than I thought o.o'

EDarkness · Jul 21, 2015

Smiles and Cries said:
if so maybe they learn a lesson from those poor ass sales

I am still salty about the no Airport DLC for U

still played the hell out of that game, I wish DriveClub has some city driving

lies are lies folks I would not touch The Crew with a 10 foot pole after the shitty demo
but I got to admire that Ubisoft never pimped a Wii U version for that shit

I agree, man. I played the hell out of that game, but they announced DLC right before the Wii U version came out then told the Wii U guys they weren't getting that content. I wanted those cars and the airport area. I went ahead and bought the game anyway, but I know folks who got the other versions for that extra stuff. The whole point of car games is to collect and drive cars. The Wii U version was missing out (much like Mass Effect), so yeah they put a lot of care in that version, but it was still inferior to the others.

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