brandonh83
Banned
Please?
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Nintendo files patent application for stationary game console without optical disk
Please?
The console won't be gimped by the handheld. The console is more likely to be gimped because Nintendo.
Assuming they use the same architecture because they want efficient development in house then that means selecting a power efficient architecture suitable for a handheld. Immediately you are restricting the potential of the home console by that choice. But mobile chips have come on in leaps and bounds recently, so a common architecture but running a high end chip at higher clock speeds in the home version could still provide a good home console exoerience. Not Xb1/PS4 beating, but Nintendo have not shown a particular desire to go for high power consoles over the last decade, so they would not be concerned about a console we might perceive to be low powered.
How do you buy a physical game from Amazon or other online retailers? Aren't online retailers a bigger slice of the physical pie than High street retail stores?
Hum, how could they NOT compete with Sony/MS for a new console ? I mean, what would be the drift for consumers/not fans of Nintendo ?
I don't see anything like the Wiimote in this patent.
Oh goody, more hybrid talk and a new spin on the same illogical concept.
Basically. Wii U is a stinker, any R&D sunk into it for a revision at this point is throwing money into a bottomless pit.
The likely scenario is to use the same touchscreen as would be featured in the handheld, which would be smaller and would allow a cheaper cost on the component by ordering in a larger volume due to its use in 2 hardware SKUs.
Explain what would be "gimped". If it plays the same, you can make a game more or less pretty based on the hardware it's released on. Software makers do this already. Hell, PC users have damn image-quality dials in their games that can turn or scale down a whole host of effects, FFS.
So tell me how a game would be permanently "gimped" by accommodating less capable hardware, since it's seemingly escaped your notice that this has already been done for every modern game that's hit PC in decades.
It is, and there are many copy-protection techniques for NAND that are already in play. SD cards have copy protections that are still not cracked, if I remember correctly, and are becoming more sophisticated all the time.
A screen doesn't automatically incur a high price. There are ways around that. Not to mention the screen alone wasn't the biggest Wii U expense, it was the wireless card that enabled its image to sync to the console and TV output. That technology is now universal and decreased in price significantly.
So.... handhelds don't exist now?
Carts have to be made anyways, so you're not "saving" practically anything. In fact, having 1 less software SKU to manage and send to retail is a huge savings in time and money.
sörine;176176934 said:
That last bit is the reason the touchscreen will stay: Nintendo wants their hardware to be able to play as much of their back catalog as humanly possible, be it on console or handheld. The only hardware that throws a wrench in that is the Wii, but even some of those games would be playable on a handheld.
It's part of the reason why we have DS Virtual Console on Wii U, it's essentially a proof of concept that they could get as many of their past hardware platforms on the same digital storefront.
You're thinking in a way that assumes that the current paradigm of the industry can't/won't/shouldn't change. Nintendo may (and given their current performance, almost certainly does) see things much differently. And doesn't imply that the data must be "gimped". That's purely your own thoughts on the matter.
It neither supports nor negates that idea. Stop thinking in terms of hybridism.
Yeah, I mean, look at Sony, constantly making hardware that they lose money on, all the way back to PS2. There's no way that they could possibly make a console that they don't lose money on. OH WAIT.
Yep, it's forward thinking in a way that you don't associate with Nintendo.
Optical has stopped making sense a while ago. Physical media sales have decreased for movies and are almost completely gone for music. Games still need a physical media, but it needs one that hasn't essentially reached the limit of what it can achieve like Blu-Ray has, and there's not much appetite from electronics manufacturers to pursue faster and larger optical disc storage beyond that because of it losing steam at retail.
It's another show of Nintendo being oddly progressive technologically.
It's adorable that people still think that. Nintendo may as well just not bother if they don't compete with Sony and MS, especially since the parts in those consoles aren't that expensive in the slightest anymore.
DeNa.
MoogleWizard
Member
I bought every Nintendo system since the SNES. Digital only would be the only way to get me to not buy the next one. So I'm hoping for cartridges, so nostalgic, a home console with cartridges!
Yautja_Warrior
Member
So back to carts? Just with lots more memory so they can fit bigger games on. You never know with Nintendo.
If they are going digital only then thats a brave move, especially with Nintendo's track record of their online structure, which lets face it, has been lacklustre to say the least.
If they are going digital only then thats a brave move, especially with Nintendo's track record of their online structure, which lets face it, has been lacklustre to say the least.
I'm not much of a tech person, but I know you are. How well would modern-day "carts" measure up to disks in terms of performance? That'd just be like a high-end SD card, right? So minimal loading, etc?
There's zero chance Nintendo is going digital-only.
The 3DS carts work quite well. And can apparently go up to 8 GB in size. I imagine the possible size would be even higher with the NX.
The 3DS carts work quite well. And can apparently go up to 8 GB in size. I imagine the possible size would be even higher with the NX.
It could be quite fast if they don't cheap out but it will never work like carts used in older systems. Older carts were memory mapped - data did not need to be transferred from media to system memory as a result. That's not really viable today, obviously.
There's no guarantee that using flash memory will result in decent transfer speeds, though. Just look at the Vita!
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Rösti;176139219 said:
On February 10, 2015, Nintendo Co., Ltd, filed in the United States a patent application for a "Stationary Game Apparatus, Game Apparatus, Game System, Recording Medium and Speed Control Method". It was published yesterday, on August 20, 2015, and is based upon and claims the benefit of priority of the prior Japanese Patent Application filed on February 20, 2014. The title of the patent in itself sounds of course not very interesting, but the description and claims are quite peculiar. Additionally it describes a controller with a display screen as well as Speed Control Processing.
This particular patent is a bit lengthy, but I'll try and underline the most interesting/important parts.
Images (only two are interesting)
Source: Search "20150231511" here.
How can this be patentable. Surely it's nothing that hasn't be done before.
It's likely related to the NX, but not confirmed.
Interceptor
Banned
What's up with the all digital talk? Especially in this thread. You will be able to get a cartridge with your game on it...
Or you could just download it. Like just now. On the Wii U.
Another point not debated enough: The form factor. Without an optical drive they could go totally nuts with the design of this thing. All for 99,- (Wii U power level, close to the next handheld, upgrade every two years) or 199,- (PS4+, no dvd licences, no optical drive, 2012 gpu tech.. easy, even with a gamepad)
Or you could just download it. Like just now. On the Wii U.
Another point not debated enough: The form factor. Without an optical drive they could go totally nuts with the design of this thing. All for 99,- (Wii U power level, close to the next handheld, upgrade every two years) or 199,- (PS4+, no dvd licences, no optical drive, 2012 gpu tech.. easy, even with a gamepad)
No it won't. The carts will be 3DS-size, not the bulky behemoths of the old Nintendo consoles.
Porcile
Member
I meant 3DS-sized carts. If anything it adds more fuel to the "kiddie toy" argument which people have leveled (dumbly) at Nintendo home consoles for like 15 years now.
I feel it's not a coincidence that lately I decided to go digital. Only the higher price is what holds me back but I ve noticed lately that I spend more time playing games installed in my Wii u than those requiring to insert a disc. Still we may end up seeing games in retail containing a code. This could potentially allow for some better prices. Of course we lose the benefit of second hand games.
Then again once Nintendo goes full digital they may realize not everyone is willing to buy full price and may have to adapt. After all I remember Iwata saying they need to focus on more budget games.
Then again once Nintendo goes full digital they may realize not everyone is willing to buy full price and may have to adapt. After all I remember Iwata saying they need to focus on more budget games.
Zeyphersan
Banned
So the console itself loads in carts, has an internal HDD (not flash like the Wii U) and the ability to use external HDDs. The controller still has a screen on it, and can be used in wired or wireless mode it looks like
Tons of info in here, I love it
Tons of info in here, I love it
I think it's more likely Wii U related.
My expectation is that the Wii U will be able to play certain new digitial games released under the NX platform even after it stops getting retail games. A cheaper Wii U with a well established and growing digital library might be appealing to some people especially since games like Splatoon, Mario Kart 8 and Smash Brothers (maybe even Super Mario Maker/Pokken) will likely retain an active community of players right up to and beyond NX's release.
geordiemp
Member
What if
First basic program = hand held game code of say MK9
Second basic program = additional textures etc for console MK9
That way its 1 game per cart for hand held and console.
From a marketing perspective Nintendo probably wants those 50 million or more hand held customers to buy the home console...so the incentive would be they have a software collection already from the hand held.
What it would mean is Nintendo going for console + hand held monetising existing core base better rather than competing with MS / Sony or going for casual. Interesting.
If N can sell all hand held customers a home console then that would be much better than WiiU, and with more software releases would make business sense.
First basic program = hand held game code of say MK9
Second basic program = additional textures etc for console MK9
That way its 1 game per cart for hand held and console.
From a marketing perspective Nintendo probably wants those 50 million or more hand held customers to buy the home console...so the incentive would be they have a software collection already from the hand held.
What it would mean is Nintendo going for console + hand held monetising existing core base better rather than competing with MS / Sony or going for casual. Interesting.
If N can sell all hand held customers a home console then that would be much better than WiiU, and with more software releases would make business sense.
Thread is going a bit off the rails so I'm posting this shit again for people who honestly can't be bothered with reading the entire patent and I don't blame them
GAME CONSOLE NX
I simply "translated" the patent to the best of my ability, cutting out the fluff. There's a lot of fluff.
It's a game console! The example console has no disc drive. You connect it to a television and play video games.
The example is totally of a Digital-only console but this in no way restricts any other NX hardware to be exactly that, says patent. Digital-only can be made on the cheap tho, says patent.
Passage literally confirming NX device with disc drive (bolded is my notes):
Other hardware configs need not neccessarily include an HDD. (Like, say a portable device? Hmm?)
Has HDD, Internet, CPU, GPU, RAM, like a home console would
OS Kernel has it's own memory, and it's fast so the console can boot faster
Can check if the main OS has been tampered with by checking additional storage and restore corrupted high-security data
OS has full multitasking support
You can download games to the console
Games installed to HDD
Games have code for more than one hardware configuration and the hardware determines what code is the right one to run (NX is a platform like iOS, duh it has this)
External hard drives can be connected and you can install games to them
Can emulate different HDD read/write speeds primarily for games that have special code for external HDDs, can seemingly pretend that the HDD is an optical disc as well. SPEED CONTROL
Controller with rechargeable battery (Pro Controller?)
Interesting passages:
Can charge the GamePad equivalent by plugging it into the console.
Save files are stored on the HDD O_O OMG WOW
Can read/write SD cards. This allows for retail distribution or OS updates using SD cards. Really any data that you can think of putting on an SD card, can be used. No confirmation of anything.
GAME CONSOLE NX
I simply "translated" the patent to the best of my ability, cutting out the fluff. There's a lot of fluff.
It's a game console! The example console has no disc drive. You connect it to a television and play video games.
The example is totally of a Digital-only console but this in no way restricts any other NX hardware to be exactly that, says patent. Digital-only can be made on the cheap tho, says patent.
Passage literally confirming NX device with disc drive (bolded is my notes):
Other hardware configs need not neccessarily include an HDD. (Like, say a portable device? Hmm?)
Has HDD, Internet, CPU, GPU, RAM, like a home console would
OS Kernel has it's own memory, and it's fast so the console can boot faster
Can check if the main OS has been tampered with by checking additional storage and restore corrupted high-security data
OS has full multitasking support
You can download games to the console
Games installed to HDD
Games have code for more than one hardware configuration and the hardware determines what code is the right one to run (NX is a platform like iOS, duh it has this)
External hard drives can be connected and you can install games to them
Can emulate different HDD read/write speeds primarily for games that have special code for external HDDs, can seemingly pretend that the HDD is an optical disc as well. SPEED CONTROL
Controller with rechargeable battery (Pro Controller?)
Interesting passages:
Controller with screen. GamePad support? Could be new controller, too. Will probably have at LEAST the functionality of the GamePad.
Can charge the GamePad equivalent by plugging it into the console.
Save files are stored on the HDD O_O OMG WOW
Bolded could be interpreted as being the oft-touted "high texture download" option.
Can read/write SD cards. This allows for retail distribution or OS updates using SD cards. Really any data that you can think of putting on an SD card, can be used. No confirmation of anything.
Nope. You've got the right idea but
basic program 24 = kernel
basic program 25 = OS
game program 26 = game code, including code for different hardware configurations, which can be anything from a digital-only handheld to something akin to a PC tower whatever you want
the SD card example in the patent only shows an OS upgrade happening
I honestly think they could try a basic/full approach for compatibility, like in PCs but more streamlined. Devs are free of course to decide what will they support. Like with New 3ds, you can have a game that runs the same or runs better on new or runs only on new.
So basically a cheaper digital only device with options for optical disks? That would be interesting to see.
How would this work exactly? I hear it a lot and I'm curious as to what it means. Would the WiiU emulate the NX architecture or something?
Thank you! This really sound like what I was hoping for and kinda expecting (but usually Nintendo shatters our expectations)
There are consumer grade 128gb SD cards and even microSD. What makes you think Zelda will be larger than that? I'd be surprised if it even hit 32gb
Interceptor
Banned
I agree. The next handheld (or even the NX lol) could be close to the Wii U, just adapt it in your development cycle and boom - instant 10 million userbase.
I'm thinking of NX as, in part, a software platform that will support different devices. Wii U will be able to play some digital games made for NX targets. It's just as how devs would generally target "Android" rather than any specific hardware configuration (though I suspect Nintendo will make some software exclusive to certain hardware).
So I think Wii U will receive an update to enable it to be part of the NX ecosystem. Iwata hinted at it with a little diagram he showed during the Dena announcement.
iceatcs
Junior Member
Not cheap as blu-Ray discs. Under a dollar.
BishopLamont
Banned
nintendo won't go dd only, look at the xbox one fiasco
the retailer market is still huge, why would they abandon it?
cartridges is more likely the reason, no load times would be a big plus
the retailer market is still huge, why would they abandon it?
cartridges is more likely the reason, no load times would be a big plus
Wasn't the Xbox issue more about the online only aspect?