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Holepunch · Sep 25, 2016

A lot of gun owners just got their beliefs reaffirmed. Fuck.

I hate this. You hear it all the goddamn time how one family member shoots the other because they came home late. You hear about the accidents when children get a hold of guns. You hear about the mass shootings caused by legally purchased guns. You hear about all the crimes carried out by guns. You hear about all the crimes that happened where owning a gun didn't prevent anything.

And here we have this one out of a million example where someone owned a gun and used it defend themselves against criminals and had it work. Suddenly everybody's all "Good for her" "Good thing she owned a gun" "I totally need a gun" "They totally deserved to die". Even taking this perfect cherrypick in the best light, she's still seen shooting someone either fleeing down the street or already bleeding to death. She could've just had a security alarm or a dog and they probably still would've dove through a glass door.

People need to stop thinking they're going to be the hero with their gun, and not a part of one of the far more likely scenarios.

MogCakes · Sep 25, 2016

Holepunch said:
And here we have this one out of a million example where someone owned a gun and used it defend themselves against criminals and had it work. Suddenly everybody's all "Good for her" "Good thing she owned a gun" "I totally need a gun" "They totally deserved to die". Even taking this perfect cherrypick in the best light, she's still seen shooting someone either fleeing down the street or already bleeding to death. She could've just had a security alarm or a dog and they probably still would've dove through a glass door.

People need to stop thinking they're going to be the hero with their gun, and not a part of one of the far more likely scenarios.

I am really not seeing the problem with people saying 'good for her' or 'they deserved to die'. Break into someone's home with intent to kill (AKA bringing a gun), you forfeit your right to life.

They would have shot both her and the dog.

AYF 001 · Sep 25, 2016

MoeDabs said:
Tell me more about us Americans. I'm sure you have us all figured out.

Im talking about how once in a blue moon stories like this act as confirmation bias for people like this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...5e0db4-79e9-11e6-bd86-b7bbd53d2b5d_story.html

TheOrangeKid007 said:
This makes zero sense. She was prepared for the situation. She had enoigh intelligence and foresight to predict the possibility of this happening and armed herself accordingly.Luck has nothing to do with it.

These people meant to do harm (in some form) and suffered thr consequences. A perfect example of when not thinking gets you killed.

It's exactly luck. It's luck she was even there when the robbery occurred. It's luck they didn't shoot her on sight. It's luck none of those rounds missed, over penetrated the wall, and hit a bystander. It easily could have ended differently:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...ervenes-in-domestic-dispute-and-is-shot-dead/

entremet · Sep 25, 2016

Familienoberhauptvogel said:
I'm just glad I live in a country where a knife is the worst I could face and even that is unlikely because robbers are smart enough to rob when the inhabitants are away.

Also we have a dog.

I'm okay with that lady though, ideally neither party would have been armed and she could have run and contacted police but alas the US is fucked.

Most burglars in the US do not want any confrontations either. The best ones "case" places to make sure this never happens.

But if you're robbing US home, especially one in a state with Castle Law, you're putting yourself in amazing danger, hence the escalation by many two bit thieves.

Spiral Insanity · Sep 25, 2016

Familienoberhauptvogel said:
I'm just glad I live in a country where a knife is the worst I could face and even that is unlikely because robbers are smart enough to rob when the inhabitants are away.

Also we have a dog.

I'm okay with that lady though, ideally neither party would have been armed and she could have run and contacted police but alas the US is fucked.

So even the robbers in your country are smarter than those in the US? Impressive.

krang · Sep 25, 2016

Dali said:
Yep. No sympathy for the asshole that died in the driveway. You invade a person's place with hostility like that then you deserve to be punished.

If you're shooting to stop the fuckers from being a threat, and one of them dies, that's reasonable. If you're shooting once the threat is eliminated because "punishment" then you deserve jail time.

gohepcat · Sep 25, 2016

MogCakes said:
You think that's a feasible goal? No murders in 6 years for any random place? You can't possibly believe that.

If you told me 20 years ago that violent crime in the US would be cut by half I would say that's absolutely impossible.

This is 100% doable, we just don't believe it is.

MogCakes · Sep 25, 2016

gohepcat said:
If you told me 20 years ago that violent crime in the US would be cut by half I would say that's absolutely impossible.

This is 100% doable, we just don't believe it is.

I just have zero faith in society to achieve it, I am completely unable to fathom that outcome.

Permanently A · Sep 25, 2016

Am I the only one confused about why the three intruders with guns in hand, instead of firing back, opted to bolt? Seems like a better option that being shot at from behind.

gohepcat · Sep 25, 2016

MogCakes said:
I just have zero faith in society to achieve it, I am completely unable to fathom that outcome.

...but there are parts of the world who have drastically less crime than others. What are the qualities of those places?

Those conditions can be replicated or at least attempted.
What are Switzerland, Singapore, Iceland and Japan doing that Venezuela, and India are not? What are the ingredients that cause very high crime, or very low crime?

krang · Sep 25, 2016

gohepcat said:
...but there are parts of the world who have drastically less crime than others. What are the qualities of those places?

Those conditions can be replicated or at least attempted.
What are Switzerland, Singapore, Iceland and Japan doing that Venezuela, and India are not? What are the ingredients that cause very high crime, or very low crime?

Smaller wealth gap?

EatinOlives · Sep 25, 2016

Just saw the video.

Uh, she looked pretty reckless with the gun, especially shooting it out the doorway. Obviously she was shaken so I'm not gonna vilify her or anything, but that was fairly dangerous and could've killed someone innocent.

Can't get too mad about the killed burglar. Yes, it's not the ideal outcome, but it's hard to feel sympathy for a POS burglar trying to rob someone's home

ActWan · Sep 25, 2016

krang said:
If you're shooting to stop the fuckers from being a threat, and one of them dies, that's reasonable. If you're shooting once the threat is eliminated because "punishment" then you deserve jail time.

Yup. People are so "Right" in this thread that for a second I forgot that NeoGAF was a "Left" forum.

CassidyIzABeast · Sep 25, 2016

Looks like a god damn storage facility in there.

MogCakes · Sep 25, 2016

gohepcat said:
Those conditions can be replicated or at least attempted.

I don't see that happening anytime soon or within a century. No murders in 6 years across an entire continent - no way.

HP_Wuvcraft · Sep 25, 2016

Lubricus said:
NRA will love this video.

Trump is gonna use the fuck out of this at the debates.

gohepcat · Sep 25, 2016

MogCakes said:
I don't see that happening anytime soon or within a century. No murders in 6 years across an entire continent - no way.

You are taking the math literally. We had someone killed 7 years ago, so for every 100k people we have 1 murder every 5 or so years. In big cities with millions of people you would get dozens a year, but you would effectively living in an insanely safe place. Enough that perhaps you wouldn't think of buying a gun for safety.

foxuzamaki · Sep 25, 2016

Permanently A said:
Am I the only one confused about why the three intruders with guns in hand, instead of firing back, opted to bolt? Seems like a better option that being shot at from behind.

Either they were caught too of guard or the guns were just for show

MogCakes · Sep 25, 2016

gohepcat said:
You are taking the math literally. We had someone killed 7 years ago, so for every 100k people we have 1 murder every 5 or so years. In big cities with millions of people you would get dozens a year, but you would effectively living in an insanely safe place. Enough that perhaps you wouldn't think of buying a gun for safety.

I am all for gun control, but I am unable to believe that within a century's time (or really, ever) the murder rate will be so low as to create the impression of complete safety.

Randam · Sep 25, 2016

sentence for burglary is death in the US?

didn't know that.

how many on death row are there for armed burglary?

Undead Fantasy · Sep 25, 2016

Nowise10 said:
Why did she even shoot if she couldn't see they had guns? None of them fired any shots. And she shot when they were clearly out of her house. She should be punished

USC-fan · Sep 25, 2016

Randam said:
sentence for burglary is death in the US?

didn't know that.

how many on death row are there for armed burglary?

A bunch.

Like these guys here. Since they went to rob these people together they get charge with the same crime no matter who did what. You could just drive the get away car and still go to death row.

"the law holds that if two or more conspirators agree to commit one crime say, a robbery but instead, one of them commits another crime say, murder each party can be held responsible for the murder, regardless of individual intent, based on the notion that the conspirators should have anticipated that the crime committed would actually happen. "

Drek · Sep 25, 2016

HP_Wuvcraft said:
Trump is gonna use the fuck out of this at the debates.

To what end? So Clinton can talk about how she doesn't want to take away all guns, is OK with safe handgun ownership, especially for home defense, and just wants to take assault weapons off the streets As a matter of public safety and prevent those on the terror watch list or diagnosed mental illness from owning firearms?

I mean, that would play pretty damn well for her with about 80% of the country.

krang · Sep 25, 2016

Undead Fantasy said:

Firing into the street as they were fleeing? They were no longer a threat. You're damn right she should be punished.

The guy above is right: it's remarkable how quickly this forum swings from left to right sometimes.

autoduelist · Sep 25, 2016

Holepunch said:
A lot of gun owners just got their beliefs reaffirmed. Fuck.

I hate this. You hear it all the goddamn time how one family member shoots the other because they came home late. You hear about the accidents when children get a hold of guns. You hear about the mass shootings caused by legally purchased guns. You hear about all the crimes carried out by guns. You hear about all the crimes that happened where owning a gun didn't prevent anything.

And here we have this one out of a million example where someone owned a gun and used it defend themselves against criminals and had it work. Suddenly everybody's all "Good for her" "Good thing she owned a gun" "I totally need a gun" "They totally deserved to die". Even taking this perfect cherrypick in the best light, she's still seen shooting someone either fleeing down the street or already bleeding to death. She could've just had a security alarm or a dog and they probably still would've dove through a glass door.

People need to stop thinking they're going to be the hero with their gun, and not a part of one of the far more likely scenarios.

'1 in a million'? Are you serious? Sounds like you're suffering from some serious confirmation bias. People have successfully defended themselves with guns since gunpowder was invented.

krang said:
Firing into the street as they were fleeing? They were no longer a threat. You're damn right she should be punished.

The guy above is right: it's remarkable how quickly this forum swings from left to right sometimes.

Won't someone please think of the home invaders?!

Seriously, though, another article I read said one was returning fire. While I agree, in theory, she should stop firing once they're out of the house, in practice, I doubt I would. You don't want them turning around, regrouping, and coming back at you. While that's rationally not going to happen, in the heat of the moment, I'd want them gone and wouldn't be thinking of the doorway as some sort of safety portal.

krang · Sep 25, 2016

autoduelist said:
Seriously, though, another article I read said one was returning fire. While I agree, in theory, she should stop firing once they're out of the house, in practice, I doubt I would. You don't want them turning around, regrouping, and coming back at you. While that's rationally not going to happen, in the heat of the moment, I'd want them gone and wouldn't be thinking of the doorway as some sort of safety portal.

"Won't someone please think of the home invaders!"? No. Think about the property and persons who could potentially be damaged and hurt as a result of unnecessary gun fire in public.

If you're (not specifically you're) not able to control your temper, or you're likely to panic or act irrationally while in charge of a firearm, then quite honestly you should not be permitted to keep one in your house.

hydrophilic attack · Sep 25, 2016

It would have been better if she hadn't.

In a country without guns everywher , burglars arm themselves with knives and baseball bats at the very worst. Homeowners owning guns leads to an arms race where burglars equip themselves with more and more dangerous stuff. In the end, a lot more people, innocent and not, end up hurt or killed

shintoki · Sep 25, 2016

Got a lot of fucking mind readers in here.

They broke in with guns. It doesn't fucking matter if they were running off. This isn't someone getting in a car to hunt them down or chase them around the block. She was still in her home and literally a grand total of about 10 seconds. The threat is still there as long as they are in sight. I wished I lived in the world some of you all did where people can hit knee shots from 100 yards out and know exactly when the bad guy will turn around and fire back. I guess the minute they took a step outside, she is not allowed to fire and she is the criminal now. Some people sitting in their ivory tower of privilege of being able to judge people who've had a gun to their fucking head.

hydrophilic attack · Sep 25, 2016

shintoki said:
Got a lot of fucking mind readers in here.

The broke in with guns. It doesn't fucking matter if they were running off. This isn't someone getting in a car to hunt them down or chase them around the block. She was still in her home and literally a grand total of about 10 seconds. The threat is still there as long as they are in sight. I wished I lived in the world some of you all did where people can hit knee shots from 100 yards out and know exactly when the bad guy will turn around and fire back.

I live in a country where burglars won't have guns and where my insurance will cover my stolen stuff

shintoki · Sep 25, 2016

hydrophilic attack said:
I live in a country where burglars won't have guns and where my insurance will cover my stolen stuff

I wish I did too, sadly I don't.

Alienous · Sep 25, 2016

Holepunch said:
A lot of gun owners just got their beliefs reaffirmed. Fuck.

I hate this. You hear it all the goddamn time how one family member shoots the other because they came home late. You hear about the accidents when children get a hold of guns. You hear about the mass shootings caused by legally purchased guns. You hear about all the crimes carried out by guns. You hear about all the crimes that happened where owning a gun didn't prevent anything.

And here we have this one out of a million example where someone owned a gun and used it defend themselves against criminals and had it work. Suddenly everybody's all "Good for her" "Good thing she owned a gun" "I totally need a gun" "They totally deserved to die". Even taking this perfect cherrypick in the best light, she's still seen shooting someone either fleeing down the street or already bleeding to death. She could've just had a security alarm or a dog and they probably still would've dove through a glass door.

People need to stop thinking they're going to be the hero with their gun, and not a part of one of the far more likely scenarios.

Doesn't matter if it's unlikely. The argument for taking a weapon away from those people who use a firearm to protect their lives because of the irresponsible firearm users isn't a strong one, I don't think.

hydrophilic attack · Sep 25, 2016

shintoki said:
I wish I did too, sadly I don't.

But you can push for such a country by pushing for a ban on guns and confiscation of guns already in circulation

Marvel · Sep 25, 2016

Insane footage.

2MF · Sep 25, 2016

hydrophilic attack said:
I live in a country where burglars won't have guns and where my insurance will cover my stolen stuff

Does the insurance also cover getting raped or killed by home intruders?

faridmon · Sep 25, 2016

Man that is scary.

An Innocent neighbour or bystander could have easily been killed.

hydrophilic attack · Sep 25, 2016

2MF said:
Does the insurance also cover getting raped or killed by home intruders?

Burglars going after your shit would want to get out of there as fast as possible so they wouldn't rape or kill you.

People breaking into your house specifically to rape or kill you just doesn't happen here. If it happens at all it's so rare that the cost-benefit analysis on a society level of people owning guns to defend themselves in these exceedingly rare circumstances or people not doing so, leading to much lower gun violence in general would be heavily weighed to the latter. Especially so when you consider how much safer the rarity of guns would make you from a random burglar who wants to steal your stuff

Making such important life decisions as endangering everyone who ever visits you due to the presence of a gun because of fear of someone breaking in to kill or murder you is akin to never flying anywhere because of the risk of a plane crash.

Going through life in constant fear of strangers must be a rather sad existence

HariKari · Sep 25, 2016

hydrophilic attack said:
But you can push for such a country by pushing for a ban on guns and confiscation of guns already in circulation

Even countries with aggressive gun control don't ban guns outright. What you're talking about is just a dream at this point.

Heaven Shard · Sep 25, 2016

She did good. I wished she killed all the fuckers. I just hope with some of their fucking ruling in the US she doesn't get sued by one of those fuckers and actually loses. It seems you never know with US courts.

(This because I remember a robber breaking his foot inside the house he was robbing and sued the owner and WON! WTF?!)

Ensirius · Sep 25, 2016

The fuck is the dude in white doing just going across the hail of bullets like that? What a moron.

mercenar1e · Sep 25, 2016

hydrophilic attack said:
But you can push for such a country by pushing for a ban on guns and confiscation of guns already in circulation

that would never work in the US.

gogogow · Sep 25, 2016

Nowise10 said:
Why did she even shoot if she couldn't see they had guns? None of them fired any shots. And she shot when they were clearly out of her house. She should be punished

krang said:
Firing into the street as they were fleeing? They were no longer a threat. You're damn right she should be punished.

The guy above is right: it's remarkable how quickly this forum swings from left to right sometimes.

Holepunch said:
she's still seen shooting someone either fleeing down the street or already bleeding to death. She could've just had a security alarm or a dog and they probably still would've dove through a glass door.

No, get your facts straight. Watch the video again, CAM4, as she was chasing them out of the house. She was NOT shooting anymore (only aiming her gun at them) UNTIL they started shooting at her when they were out of the house. You can just about see one of the robbers turning his arm around to shoot, about three times. You can clearly see the muzzle flash. You can see the first muzzle flash very clearly, the other two through the reflection of the door window as the robber was running away. She ducked and covered her head with her left hand, while at least one of the bullets grazed her. That's why she was bleeding from the leftside of the head. You can also clearly see her hair getting lift up by the bullets passing her. That's why she kept shooting, to make sure the threat is elminated. She did NOTHING wrong.

"She should be punished", LMAO.

faisal233 · Sep 25, 2016

Man, it sure seems like a lot of people would rather have the lady be killed so they can wag their finger and point out that guns didn't save her.

gutter_trash · Sep 25, 2016

Instro said:
Possibly, but generally someone fleeing is not considered a threat. I mean she fired 4-5 times while standing by her door instead of closing it, that's pretty sketchy.

he is still in possession of a weapon and may seek retaliation

best eliminate the threat entirely

I am against guns, I am a Canadian who is against guns and support the banning of all firearms,
but as long as the US remains a gun toting country, I support people having the right to the defend themselves and their families in their homes. It is fucked up, but eh guns are everywhere there

hesido · Sep 25, 2016

The second to cross her clearly held a gun inches from her head, did that gun not fire or did (or at least him) he have a fake gun just for show??? There seems to be a fire exchange in the beginning but the second to pass holds the gun in her face yet he doesn't fire.

She's really lucky to not get hurt during that.

Also, screw CNN's video player that jumps to the next video without even updating browse history so you can't even use the back button.

Edit: Also yeah they are running away but who can guarantee they won't come back if or when they realize she ran out of bullets. She's not wrong to keep firing I believe. Now if they didn't have a gun she should probably make a warning shot or something but these all have guns in their hands, and you don't want to check if they are replicas at that point. And she's probably in shock and it's natural to not make the exact best decision at that time.

Edit2:

Gutek said:
This doesn't mean what you think it means. This means WHEN a rape happens, 60% of those rapes have been preceded by a home invasion.

Yeah, time to be pedantic, right. Let's dissect that statistics to prove that men with guns barging into a house can ALSO be kind to the woman in the house.

bobawesome · Sep 25, 2016

Dynamite Shikoku said:
America is a scary place :/

No kidding. My mom was carjacked just up the street from our house, in broad daylight, a few months ago. Before that I thought we lived in a really safe neighborhood. Things like this can flip your world around.

entremet · Sep 25, 2016

hydrophilic attack said:
Burglars going after your shit would want to get out of there as fast as possible so they wouldn't rape or kill you.

People breaking into your house specifically to rape or kill you just doesn't happen here. If it happens at all it's so rare that the cost-benefit analysis on a society level of people owning guns to defend themselves in these exceedingly rare circumstances or people not doing so, leading to much lower gun violence in general would be heavily weighed to the latter. Especially so when you consider how much safer the rarity of guns would make you from a random burglar who wants to steal your stuff

Making such important life decisions as endangering everyone who ever visits you due to the presence of a gun because of fear of someone breaking in to kill or murder you is akin to never flying anywhere because of the risk of a plane crash.

Going through life in constant fear of strangers must be a rather sad existence

Ok, awesome I guess?

I don't know if constant fear is the word your looking for. The woman had a gun for home defense. This is not uncommon in a State like Texas. And unfortunately she was robbed.

America is also is not one culture. It's many different ones. Gun and gun ownership is very different in the Northeast example, where many states don't even have Castle Law. Castle Law allows homeowners to shoot first and ask questions later.

Bob White · Sep 25, 2016

Holepunch said:
A lot of gun owners just got their beliefs reaffirmed. Fuck.

I hate this. You hear it all the goddamn time how one family member shoots the other because they came home late. You hear about the accidents when children get a hold of guns. You hear about the mass shootings caused by legally purchased guns. You hear about all the crimes carried out by guns. You hear about all the crimes that happened where owning a gun didn't prevent anything.

And here we have this one out of a million example where someone owned a gun and used it defend themselves against criminals and had it work. Suddenly everybody's all "Good for her" "Good thing she owned a gun" "I totally need a gun" "They totally deserved to die". Even taking this perfect cherrypick in the best light, she's still seen shooting someone either fleeing down the street or already bleeding to death. She could've just had a security alarm or a dog and they probably still would've dove through a glass door.

People need to stop thinking they're going to be the hero with their gun, and not a part of one of the far more likely scenarios.

Insane "no guns EVER" posts like this are just as depressing as seeing some old white woman say something like "there was no racism before Obama". Both come from super close minded people that can't think out of their own lock solid world view.

Also, glad to see that you HATE this woman most likely saving her own live.

elrechazado · Sep 25, 2016

Bob White said:
Insane "no guns EVER" posts like this are just as depressing as seeing some old white woman say something like "there was no racism before Obama". Both come from super close minded people that can't think out of their own lock solid world view.

Also, glad to see that you HATE this woman most likely saving her own live.

She should have died so his beliefs can be reinforced.

hydrophilic attack · Sep 25, 2016

entremet said:
Ok, awesome I guess?

I don't know if constant fear is the word your looking for. The woman had a gun for home defense. This is not uncommon in a State like Texas. And unfortunately she was robbed.

America is also is not one culture. It's many different ones. Gun and gun ownership is very different in the Northeast example, where many states don't even have Castle Law. Castle Law allows homeowners to shoot first and ask questions later.

But the paranoid states in the south are ruining it for the more enlightened Northeast states, by helping get guns into circulation

Bob White said:
Insane "no guns EVER" posts like this are just as depressing as seeing some old white woman say something like "there was no racism before Obama". Both come from super close minded people that can't think out of their own lock solid world view.

Also, glad to see that you HATE this woman most likely saving her own live.

anti-gun advocates are LITERALLY worse than hitler

Lyn · Sep 25, 2016

Holepunch said:
And here we have this one out of a million example where someone owned a gun and used it defend themselves against criminals and had it work.

If you believe this is a one in a million example, then you are reading or following very biased news sources. A simple Google search for home intruders being shot brings up a great number of stories of people protecting themselves and their home. There are quite a few even of mothers home alone with their children, catching intruders in their child's room or trying to get to them.

Seriously, this is far from a one in a million thing. This is why discussing responsible ownership and laws makes more sense than trying to outright ban guns entirely. There are far too many stories of people protecting themselves and others against criminals who could care less about laws or peoples' lives.

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