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Overwatch Mafia |OT| Keep Your Vote On The Payload

C

cabot

Member
OK now you're just insulting everyone.

Splinter, get him.

What if I want to look at you on D2 and you were all 'Don't give a fuck mode' this day phase?

You can just pawn off your D1 behaviour as no fucks given and we're essentially back at square one with you, unless you expect a PR to out you on D2, putting themselves at risk.
 
C

cabot

Member
Haly said:
Very few of these analyses work. People throw out words for the sake of throwing out words so there's, maybe, something to work with in the future, not because they're really ever sure of hitting scum. There are a few GAFia players who I know from experience are capable of pinpointing a scum day 1, but none of them are here, unfortunately.

And I'm not one them in any case.
Click to expand...

This is not what I meant, it's unlikely we'll hit a scum day 1, but there's a difference in actively trying to hit a scum on day 1, and working from there after a flip as opposed to just 'It's D1, fuck it'.

Sure you can do that, it's a free country (Until THE BREXIT) but I have a problem with that mentality.


You'll have my vote for now, cherish it.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Can you not town/scum read 'Don't give a fuck mode'?

Whether it's coasting or hyperactivity, mechanics speculation or asking benign questions, filler posts or 5000 word essays, it's all evidence for the future, no?

Or do you only care about scum reads/town reads?
 
C

cabot

Member
I'd read it as scum more than town, but it isn't definitive.

I care about willingness to engage with others be it through discussions, reads, thoughts, spontaneous questions. All these bring discussion forward. Discussion is the key weapon in this game.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
cabot said:
But there's a difference in actively trying to hit a scum on day 1, and working from there after a flip as opposed to just 'It's D1, fuck it'.
Click to expand...

Philosophically, yes, there's a difference. Practically, no, there isn't. Our guesses may as well be random as far as typical outcomes are concerned.
 
T

Ty4on

Member
Haly said:
Can you not town/scum read 'Don't give a fuck mode'?

Whether it's coasting or hyperactivity, mechanics speculation or asking benign questions, filler posts or 5000 word essays, it's all evidence for the future, no?

Or do you only care about scum reads/town reads?
Click to expand...
Good reads are much harder for scum to fake. When a couple of scums have died we can read how they were read.

Your posts are fairly easy for scum to make.
 
C

cabot

Member
AbsolutBro

You've offered a strong view on the mass claim idea, which you're not for.

Anything else tickling your fancy? Do you want to be tickled? I will tickle you.


Any impressions from people so far, do you like to peek?

Are you a peeking Tom?

do you want to be a peeking Tom?

What's your favourite colour?
 
S

*Splinter

Member
cabot said:
Lol i pressed post too soon, I had separated my list out into 'answered my questions, didnt answer my questions'

Oh well.


Lover, what do you make of Ty town reading Bear within about 5 minutes of game start?
Click to expand...
Yeah it was trash. Trash enough to make him my top scum.
 
S

*Splinter

Member
Also Cabot why ask me that? I'm the only one that already mentioned it.

Haly said:
I don't disagree that it's a bad idea from this point of view but it's still more interesting than what we'd be doing otherwise. I don't like D1 either because all anyone has are the barest of the bare minimum of hunches and we might as well be shooting in the dark. I'd rather have concrete information to work with, is all.

Which is why I also support the peeking strategy. Really anything but this "so who do you think is scum", "I dunno, who do you think is scum!?", "dunno!!".
Click to expand...
This a reasonable explanation, I'll say I scumread Burb's response way more than your actual argument.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Ty4on said:
Good reads are much harder for scum to fake.
Click to expand...
I can't even make good reads as town, at least on D1. Believe me, I've tried. It doesn't work. I'm not going to keep trying to the point where I wind up faking reads as town.

I'm not the type of person who, when one approach consistently fails, continues to bash his head against the wall until it works.
 
C

cabot

Member
Mazre said:
Re: Why I think there's no cop -

This is mostly wishful thinking, I have no evidence of such I just think games without them or games with unusual cops are more interesting. In the absence of any confirming evidence I choose to assume there isn't one for now.
Click to expand...

tmhnks.gif


This is a great mentality to have, I think life would be better without just over half the country being big dumb dumbs and voting to kick themselves in the jaxxy. So in the absence of Article 50 being invoked, there is no Brexit


This is Brexit MAFIA, you've all been duped.
 
S

*Splinter

Member
Haly said:
Philosophically, yes, there's a difference. Practically, no, there isn't. Our guesses may as well be random as far as typical outcomes are concerned.
Click to expand...
You're right that it's essentially random. But if our votes "randomly" coalesce on a scum player, scum team will have to manoeuvre to change the course of the day. That's where D1 can be useful, and it 100% can't happen if too many people take the "fuck day 1" approach.
 
C

cabot

Member
I asked you because the morning is our domain in Mafia games, I knew you'd be here and it was the biggest takeaway I had from reading over the game thread.
 
S

*Splinter

Member
Haly said:
I can't even make good reads as town, at least on D1. Believe me, I've tried. It doesn't work. I'm not going to keep trying to the point where I wind up faking reads as town.

I'm not the type of person who, when one approach consistently fails, continues to bash his head against the wall until it works.
Click to expand...
and "good reads" are a myth. It's all about forcing scum into situations they don't want to be in.
 
B

Burbeting

Banned
*Splinter said:
No Burb, no it doesn't. Why did you say this?
Click to expand...

I meant that mass claiming all of our roles would have been nonsense, which I detailed in my earlier posts. Haly then said that he wanted us to just claim our Hero names, which while pointless to me, would still be less damning and damaging for the town than claiming actual roles. So it made "more sense" to me.
 
S

*Splinter

Member
Alright, Ty's post is still the weirdest thing I've seen yet.

VOTE: Ty4on

Also wary of Burb for agreeing with things I wouldn't expect him to agree to (Haly's post, specifically). I guess I'd include Xam for a top 3, he's always sketchy but that doesn't mean he gets a free pass for it.

Ouro seems fine so far. Cabot I've mostly agreed with. Verelios looked odd to me but in a way that reminds me of last game, I'll lean town on him for now.
 
S

*Splinter

Member
Burbeting said:
I meant that mass claiming all of our roles would have been nonsense, which I detailed in my earlier posts. Haly then said that he wanted us to just claim our Hero names, which while pointless to me, would still be less damning and damaging for the town than claiming actual roles. So it made "more sense" to me.
Click to expand...
Eehhhhhh if you say so. I'm not sure I can read it that way. As damaging as a role claim would be it's at least something we can work with, a name claim is 100% pointless.
 
B

Burbeting

Banned
Even after a night's sleep, I'm still actively against peeking. The only time I've seen it in action lead to disaster, so I'm really not convinced it will be worth it in the long run right now.

Another problem with the fake green checks is that the players would have to basically treat them as town-reads until real cop is revealed in some fashion. It would be weird if the player would later on vote on their "green check", which would give scum more help in deducing the possible real cop (obviously real cop could do this as well, though).
 
B

Burbeting

Banned
*Splinter said:
Eehhhhhh if you say so. I'm not sure I can read it that way. As damaging as a role claim would be it's at least something we can work with, a name claim is 100% pointless.
Click to expand...

Role claim would still give scum complete list of town PR, so they could easily decide on their night actions with ease (possibly roleblock doctor or investigative powers if they have one, for example).

I didn't mean that name claim is something we should do, I agree it's pointless. But it still made more sense for Haly to ask for that than for role call.
 
S

*Splinter

Member
Ty4on said:
I still don't get what is so weird about it.
Click to expand...
I don't understand why you would townread anyone so easily. I'm not familiar with scum Burb, but I'm sure he's be more than capable of making the few posts he'd made in the thread up to that point.

I was also (I think it was the same post) reminded of your previous statements of struggling with interacting with teammates, made me wonder if that slightly forced read was due to you overcompensating for that.
 
S

*Splinter

Member
Burbeting said:
Even after a night's sleep, I'm still actively against peeking. The only time I've seen it in action lead to disaster, so I'm really not convinced it will be worth it in the long run right now.

Another problem with the fake green checks is that the players would have to basically treat them as town-reads until real cop is revealed in some fashion. It would be weird if the player would later on vote on their "green check", which would give scum more help in deducing the possible real cop (obviously real cop could do this as well, though).
Click to expand...
Godfather's exist, as do switchers, even the real cop doesn't have to take their results as gospel.



There was some discussion about what the cop should do with an N1 red check. Few options:
1) claim
2) breadcrumb and fake peek, ideally on a dead townie
3) breadcrumb and don't peek (assuming not everyone peeks). Even if most people fake peek, the cop doesn't necessarily have to join in.

Also had a thought: I mentioned earlier about fake peeking many roles. Fake peeking switcher will make it MUCH harder for scum to find the real cop.
 
T

Ty4on

Member
*Splinter said:
I don't understand why you would townread anyone so easily. I'm not familiar with scum Burb, but I'm sure he's be more than capable of making the few posts he'd made in the thread up to that point.

I was also (I think it was the same post) reminded of your previous statements of struggling with interacting with teammates, made me wonder if that slightly forced read was due to you overcompensating for that.
Click to expand...

A town read now doesn't mean I'm going to defend him till I die :p
Burb was a gut scum read in Doctor Doctor for not confronting and posting vague reads. His attack on Kyan was the polar opposite.
 
T

Ty4on

Member
Haly said:
First, yes, I feel 1 cop for 1 scum is a good trade. Cop is a very powerful role on paper, but in practice, especially on GAFia, they tend to be minor at best. I know we all like to imagine that amazing cop that lives to day 6, verifies 3 town and pins 2 scum all while dodging lynches and kills. This never happens, as far as I'm aware. Darryl came close in Archer and it was only because they had a private room to set it up. What does happen with regularity:
[...]
Click to expand...

Pls pls pls pls this.

Cop finding scum should always claim, not claiming is just greedy. A scum flip is so much more valuable to town and scum peeks are almost impossible to implement.
 
C

cabot

Member
I mostly read Kyan's night action baiting as a joke.


nin1000 v5.9 did you ever come to a conclusion on that?
 
N

nin1000

Banned
cabot said:
I mostly read Kyan's night action baiting as a joke.


nin1000 v5.9 did you ever come to a conclusion on that?
Click to expand...


Hello. I was sleeping and now I am celebrating BSP's birthday. I will come back later on and read through the thread.

You can all read me as null, since I did not really engage into the game up to this point.

See you later.
 
C

cabot

Member
Ty4on said:
How do you read Kyan in general? He's been so silent.
Click to expand...

Nothing seems to be different from the other games I've seen him in.

That points to scum right now. Was hoping if he was town he'd change up completely but it seems it won't be that easy.
 
F

franconp

Member
It's a new day and we still don't have a Barrylocke's post. I haven't played with him, it's always like this?

I don't understand how someone could still defend the role names mass claim still? There is nothing for town to gain from it. Peeking I'm still not so sure.
 
W

WhereAreMahDragonz

Banned
franconp said:
It's a new day and we still don't have a Barrylocke's post. I haven't played with him, it's always like this?

I don't understand how someone could still defend the role names mass claim still? There is nothing for town to gain from it. Peeking I'm still not so sure.
Click to expand...

I played with him in Bar and...yeah. He's a silent, off to the side kind of player.
 
T

Ty4on

Member
franconp said:
It's a new day and we still don't have a Barrylocke's post. I haven't played with him, it's always like this?

I don't understand how someone could still defend the role names mass claim still? There is nothing for town to gain from it. Peeking I'm still not so sure.
Click to expand...

He's been quite inactive in past games I've played, but usually responding with a fairly long post once he does start posting. Right now though I'm starting to wonder if he's going to be replaced.
cabot said:
Nothing seems to be different from the other games I've seen him in.

That points to scum right now. Was hoping if he was town he'd change up completely but it seems it won't be that easy.
Click to expand...
Which games other than LB have you played with him BTW? I thought he'd be much more active than in his first game.
 
C

cabot

Member
Ty4on said:
He's been quite inactive in past games I've played, but usually responding with a fairly long post once he does start posting. Right now though I'm starting to wonder if he's going to be replaced.

Which games other than LB have you played with him BTW? I thought he'd be much more active than in his first game.
Click to expand...

I don't think I've played with him in any others, but I've read all games he's been in. I'm his stalker.
 
S

StanleyPalmtree

Banned
so, how many here are actually for the mass name claim?

because its being brought up a whole lot, but seems mostly just for people to say how so totally against it they are.
 
F

franconp

Member
Maybe it's just me but all this last post from splinter and cabot they look to me like....complementary. Like coordinate to follow an agenda. That doesn't mean they are scum but that's the feel I get.

I also get a similar feeling with Burbeting and Haly.
 
C

cabot

Member
StanleyPalmtree said:
so, how many here are actually for the mass name claim?

because its being brought up a whole lot, but seems mostly just for people to say how so totally against it they are.
Click to expand...

Against.

I'm not really sure how Burb and Haly 'complement' each other, fran?

I see this:

Haly said:
Top town is burbeting cause I like bears...
Click to expand...

which is throwaway, there's almost no other direct interaction, and Burb is against peeking whereas Haly endorsed it...

Care to share?
 
F

franconp

Member
cabot said:
Against.

I'm not really sure how Burb and Haly 'complement' each other, fran?

I see this:



which is throwaway, there's almost no other direct interaction, and Burb is against peeking whereas Haly endorsed it...

Care to share?
Click to expand...

To me it's all about the role name claims. I think Haly make a very bad post when proposing to make the role name claims and when most of us didn't liked the idea burb came to make some damage control on it. Maybe I should reread.
 
F

franconp

Member
StanleyPalmtree said:
in this kind of instance, i think its just ju to the cops own best judgement whether or not they should come forward with thier results or keep it under wraps and keep investigating.
Click to expand...

Also to me this is the worst post so far. Stanley was the one who proposed the peeking so it's logical to assume he had played before with it. He couldn't be unaware of the dangers of an investigator keeping the peeks to himself, I realized this 5 minutes after googling what peek mean.
 
S

StanleyPalmtree

Banned
franconp said:
Also to me this is the worst post so far. Stanley was the one who proposed the peeking so it's logical to assume he had played before with it. He couldn't be unaware of the dangers of an investigator keeping the peeks to himself, I realized this 5 minutes after googling what peek mean.
Click to expand...

dont tell me what i cant be ignorant about!

also melon proposed the peeking.
 
T

Ty4on

Member
Haly said:
Oh that's neato. I'm all for it.
Click to expand...

Haly is a weird read for me. I like his tone like in that post. Doesn't think about how to respond, just responds what he thinks. I like his stance on peeking in general and not just because I agree. On the other hand he's talking a lot about mechanics and barely has any reads.
 
M

melonrabbit

Member
*Splinter said:
I'm down for peeking. I'll probably do it like last game where I give potential actions for a whole bunch of roles.

Also I agree about Ouro, despite that possible deflecting he did for Xam.

I think Kyan claiming vanilla is nothing and it's weird that Burb (and now you?) take it seriously. Burb laments that "we'll never know if it was a mistake now that people have given him the excuse", but that feels like nonsense too. Even it had been a genuine mistake, it's the easiest excuse to make, we'd never get any further with that line of questioning. So Burb either didn't consider that or is feigning concern.
Click to expand...

Are you saying you don't think Kyan is up to something?

franconp said:
Also to me this is the worst post so far. Stanley was the one who proposed the peeking so it's logical to assume he had played before with it. He couldn't be unaware of the dangers of an investigator keeping the peeks to himself, I realized this 5 minutes after googling what peek mean.
Click to expand...

StanleyPalmtree said:
dont tell me what i cant be ignorant about!

also melon proposed the peeking.
Click to expand...

Between Fran and Marze I'm getting little credit for peeking here.
 
S

StanleyPalmtree

Banned
franconp said:
Really? I was pretty sure it was you. That's what happens when I'm in a hurry and don't double check things.

Even then it was a very bad post.
Click to expand...

yeah, this is why we discuss plans like this, so that others can see the flaws we have missed, sorry if i didn't find every single flaw in a plan i liked.
 
F

franconp

Member
Just reread and you were the one to propose it for this game. Melon just casually mention it.

StanleyPalmtree said:
sorry i forgot to reply before in my hurry to catch up,

but i am actually completely for the peeking strat this game.

to me it actually makes way more sense in a role madness game than in a normal one.
Click to expand...

Before this we didn't even think of using it.
 
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