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Do white game developers not know how to represent people of color?

Blunoise

Member
So after I saw the mass effect character customization and we are still in 2017. You can see the video below:
https://youtu.be/O6Io-nMUMt8

It's just plain ignorant that hair representation is not equally distributed among people of color like whites in games. I mean they have 20 different types of hair for white, Asian, Hispanic, and etc but when it comes to black ladies hair textures and styles, their are only the dreaded cornrows or Bernie mac style afros. I mean do these developers not see what's in style with other cultures or is everyone just in there own bubble.

Right now everyone is up for more women roles and equality but that still only represents white women. Even with that it's still just white people are the among the prominent main characters with the most choices and customizations. I mean I wanted some strong black female customizations in games too. I mean look at theses examples.

Zazie beetz actress in Atlanta show:
dsc_4517.jpg


Or the new Iron Woman
IronGirl.jpg=s1200x1200


I mean how cool would it be to rock that puffy hairstyle for a protag.

And I as a black male would like a character to look like me
15781772_10211370720005358_6778525186393625093_n.jpg


I mean it's 2017 and we still have to bring topics like these up, I know some developers don't want to make Game Center around a black main protag or set in Africa, because let's be honest, salewise wont be too good, because the general public would come with some excuse that they can't relate to the characters......yea like I had to relate to Luke Skywalker, or Indiana Jones as my heroes growing up. So I would at least want them to provide the tools to fully customize my character to look like me in my story play through when given the options. Is that hard to ask ?
 

Soulflarz

Banned
Is the implication here that entire AAA studios are white, orr

(I mean I guess disclaimer I'm white and the character customization normally never matches what I look like for hair and I don't even style mine)
 

Gator86

Member
Too little diversity on the dev staffs overall and definitely too little in management and at the executive level, I would guess. I highly doubt anyone at these companies is making inclusive representation of people who don't look like those in the office a thing. Like that time Ubi claimed women were too hard to make. "Making black hair is hard, also the one black guy in the office said​ this was fine or whatever."
 

KoopaTheCasual

Junior Member
Is the implication here that entire AAA studios are white, orr

(I mean I guess disclaimer I'm white and the character customization normally never matches what I look like for hair and I don't even style mine)
Are you talking about hair style/texture, or a particular trim of a haircut? There's kind of a gulf of a difference between the two.
 

hwy_61

Banned
"white hair" is equally as bad imo

Btw, does anyone else feel weird generalizing a race of people? I always stop myself when I'm about to start a sentence like, "how come black peo-waaaaait a minute...what does that even mean?!"
 

KingParappa

Neo Member
No clue what it is. I wish someone would take some time to find out tho. Hair options in games have been fairly limited and I hate having to make my character always have a buzzcut.
 

Lime

Member
Relevant article that just recently came out:

https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/black-skin-is-still-a-radical-concept-in-video-games

Shades and Shaders

Several of the developers we spoke with use pixel art to make their games. As a tool, pixel art can be more straightforward when compared with the many moving parts that make up 3D game engines. Shawn Alexander Allen, one of the developers behind Treachery in Beatdown City says that working in 2D offers flexibility more easily than 3D, which requires a designer to anticipate different lighting needs. "If I'm not feeling how something looks [in pixel art] then I just change what they look like," he says. "And then maybe I change the background. I don't have to change the lighting for everything."

On the flip-side, the minimal 8-bit palette that Nintendo made famous in the 80s can be a hindrance when trying to depict shades outside those available within the original fifty-four-color palette. When the retro-styled Shovel Knight took to Kickstarter to find funding, it offered a "Pixel My Face" reward tier, which promised backers that their faces would be included as in-game portraits. Developer David D'Angelo points out that the Nintendo Entertainment System's limited palette led to a problem: "The darker spectrum of color is very underrepresented, and there aren't many shades that work for displaying a character with a darker skin tone." The team decided that diversity was more important than loyalty to the constraints of the NES, and added new shades when needed.

The game features characters of deep mahogany shades, rocking hoop earrings and big hairdos who have no trouble standing out in their environment. The game's programmer Robert Moore explains, "Because it's pixel art, and because we don't have limitations like skin texture and such, we could just work on the pixels and write the shaders accordingly."

Lighting

As mentioned above, lighting black and brown skin becomes much more complex in 3D games. Lighting can be prohibitively expensive to render, so the fewer lights there are in the game, the smoother it runs. As a result, many games rely on light maps and other forms of "baked" lighting, which predetermine how objects in a scene will look but can further exacerbate inconsistencies in character lighting. Another problem area is inconsistent framing. Where movies make use of locked-off sets and tightly scripted action, modern games grant the player a large amount of freedom in deciding where to situate your character and how to position the camera. A character can go from being well-lit to barely visible in a few tugs of the thumbstick.

An example of this is Bethesda's Skyrim, a game lauded at launch for its visual splendor. Yet that splendor never quite seems to reach the darker-skinned character options available to the player.

As the screenshots show, Tanya's Redguard perpetually has the same dark, umber hue despite being in different environments. How shadows play over her skin and clothing do not vary alongside changes in location.

Meanwhile, this Nord character actually looks like she exists in her environment. The exterior lighting casts shadows on her that match the rocks behind her. Even in darkened interiors we can see much more definition on her face than the flat and shapeless lighting of the dark-skinned character above.

Shareef Jackson hosts "Gaming Looks Good," a YouTube series where he often addresses the representation of black characters in games. Speaking on The Division's use of inconsistent lighting, Jackson says, "Even though they really tried to do a good job of including different races, genders, cultures and such. When you go into the sewers, the characters are not lit well. In fact they almost all look the same exact color as the background. I been with black people in dark places, and I know that they don't actually fade away."

"I don't think technology is holding us back at all," he posits. "We accomplish things with each generation. You can have hair and clothes flapping in the wind if you want. So if companies wanted to get it right, they prioritize it. Unless they have people on the team willing to call them out on it as well, it won't change."

For Robert Yang, a game designer and professor at NYU Game Center, this prioritization is a natural outcome of the unchecked biases that lie behind the 3D technology that powers modern gaming. "When 3D artists test their new skin shaders, they often use a 3D head scan of a white guy named Lee Perry-Smith," he notes. "What does it mean if we're all judging the quality of our skin shader solutions by seeing who can make the best rendered white guy?"

The image of a white face as the default canvas on which to cast light draws clear parallels to photography, where film developers once balanced skin tone against "Shirley Cards", reference sheets composed solely of photographs of white women. That practice has long been retired in favor of more diverse catalogues; isn't it time games caught up? First, developers must recognize that their tools have been shaped by cultural notions of what is deemed normal and desirable.

Colorism

In recognizing the bias toward white skin, it's also necessary to examine the bias toward lighter complexioned black folks. Colorism is an internalized form of white supremacy that has roots in slavery, when lighter-skinned slaves were allowed to work in the master's house instead of his field. "This translates into games even, where people design characters with lighter skin because people have an easier time identifying with them." says Moore.

To Breakup Squad developer Catt Small, tackling colorism in games is a worthy goal. "A lot of [developers] like to use the excuse that 'Oh, we wouldn't know how to light this person if we didn't make them lighter skinned.' But that just means that they should have done a little more work. It's not impossible."

Mainstream games with well-lit black protagonists like Mafia 3 and Watch Dogs 2 are proof that the technology necessary for lighting black skin is already there. Meanwhile, indie developers of color are forging their own path forward when it comes to depicting black characters of all shades in games. "People that are not black don't think about the different shades of blackness or browness," says Allen, "That's a problem."

Allen's game, Treachery in Beatdown City, for example, goes out of its way to depict many more kinds of skin tones than those you'd see in the NES aesthetic it pays homage to. Being mixed himself, Allen decided to model a character after his own golden-olive skin tone. Just as his own skin color feels personally unique and significant, his character is the only one who gets to rock that specific hue.

What unites the developers mentioned in this article is the time and effort they have committed to ensuring that the characters in their games are not treated as afterthoughts; as NPC number 28, as that default and thoughtless shade of brown or black that game technology thus far has put forward as the status quo. There may not be a space yet for rich, vividly detailed black skin in games, but the efforts of Allen, Moore, Small, and their many contemporaries in the industry, set a strong example for others to follow.

With ever-improving technology, it's seductive to believe that lighting darker characters will naturally improve alongside light ones. But even in the world of film, where technology has largely plateaued, inconsistencies remain. Real change also requires intention. Films like Moonlight reveal the impressive amount of ground that can be covered when the people leading the project have a plan for lighting their black actors from the jump.

Ironically, our decision to write this essay is thanks in part to the games industry beginning to get its act together. As developers of all stripes acquiesce to demands for inclusion and diversity, flaws in depictions of people of color shouldn't be allowed to go unremarked upon. Ten years ago, we wouldn't be having this conversation because there wouldn't be characters to have this conversation about.

Ultimately, as with everything else when it comes to diversity in games, it'll take marginalized players and developers alike, to make themselves heard and create art that challenges a status quo which still pretends white faces are the norm, while casting shade on a vibrant and colorful world.

And Evan Narcisse's classic article 'the Natural' -> http://kotaku.com/the-natural-the-trouble-portraying-blackness-in-video-1736504384
 

SerTapTap

Member
The hair thing is pretty unique, I think. If you don't know or interact with people with hair like that it'd be hard to design it without thinking to look it up--and I mean, how often do you think "hair, right? Gotta study this".

It's one of those things it's really easy to lack empathy on because you don't even really think of it as an issue. People without coarse hair probably never have to think about it in most situations. Hair is pretty personal.

Hair is also pretty hard to represent using polygons so it's natural to be a bit lazy about it. Combine the two and it's pretty easy to see. If it's a white team with straight hair designing the hair they're going to have to very consciously go out of their way to properly design coarse hair.
 
If were to hazard a guess it would be more along the lines of practicality.

Sure there is probably a level of bias in there, but hair is tough to implement. It's only really recently we started getting decent hair physics. Give it another 5 years or less there will probably be as much diversity hair wise as you like.

The bigger problem for me is how horrible some black character design it.
 

bman94

Member
Yeah, it's still a huge issue in character created games, which is one of the reasons why I don't like those games.

They never, ever represent me (shoulder length dreads, full connecting beard and goatee) and I just feel like I'm wasting my tims creating someone who looks nothing like me.

As matter of fact, I think the only game that truly nails african american character creation is the NBA 2K series probably cause they know a large part of their demographics are African Americans.
 
This represents all of the challenges in developing something that pleases everyone. I think most games could benefit from improved hair, regardless of race, honestly. But there's also the problem of being forced into a position of either not being inclusive, being racially or culturally insensitive, or being plain-old wrong. I'm not a game dev so I can't speak to the issue, but I can say even in the books I've written I do have a harder time fleshing out characters of color because I've no experience there.
 
If you're looking for WHITE people to properly represent black people accurately in any medium, you're going to have a bad time. There's zero incentive for whites to do so, when the vast majority of people buying and creating games are white.

The onus should be on people of color to unapologetically create their own games and have their own studios.
 

eoa-swam

Member
I think it's more of a case that the game dev would need to spend forever on the world's most customisable character creator, and this takes a lot of money and time.

I'm a white male, with long hair and a beard. I never have characters look like myself, or can even make one that looks like me with a creator.

In the end, does it really matter. I just pick 'random' and let whatever fall and use it.
 

LiK

Member
Horizon: Zero Dawn did it pretty well and I think majority of the devs are white. I saw plenty of afros, iirc.
 
To be honest, I think a lot of this has to do with not wanting the head model to get beyond a certain size. At least for the examples you gave. Not the best answer but I'm betting it's a significant factor.
 
Dude have you seen the white people's hair?
Mass Effect is the worst in characters right now.

But you're right. In general devs could do more and better research.
I thought the diversity in Horizon Zero Dawn was better.
Did you play that? I mean, in general it's getting better but only a couple of devs lead the way.
 

Dahaka

Member
It's kinda ironic.

With Manveer Heir being so vocal about white people I'm really wondering why he and his team didn't bother with better "poc representation" and character customization that reflects it?
You can twitter all day about issues but you can't bring change in the field where it could matter much more and where you actually have an influence? That's a fraud to me.
 
Is the implication here that entire AAA studios are white, orr

(I mean I guess disclaimer I'm white and the character customization normally never matches what I look like for hair and I don't even style mine)
This is a problem too, not as much diversity in the game industry let alone the tech industry.

I remember seeing the photo that Sony San Diego uploaded and seeing two black people.
 

Blunoise

Member

Nice I'll check them out....lol and yea guys I know hair styles and customizations aren't the best for every one, but what I am saying is to atleast give us those same amount of options like everybody else , than we can have threads about the curls in the hair is off instead of a thread like this one :)
 

Gaminar

Banned
While were on this topic. Yet again, where's the representation for South Asian folk? It's like the only brown people that exist are Latino.
 
"white hair" is equally as bad imo

The fact that it has more than 3 options in every game clearly says your wrong.

Btw, does anyone else feel weird generalizing a race of people? I always stop myself when I'm about to start a sentence like, "how come black peo-waaaaait a minute...what does that even mean?!"

The minority pointing out a flaw in works of the majority is not the same as the opposite guven the topic. We are talking about character model hair here, this is not a hill to die on. That said I find the thread presumptious since we obviously don't know the race of whoever did the hair designs.

To the opening, tbh the answer kind of is yes, people are not particularly educated on the vast number of black hair styles. They could and should put more effort in fir their game (along with learning about the har stylings of lots of over culturea tbh) but no they don't just implicitly know.
 

Infinite

Member
I always like how you get the comical Afro as a style shit always makes me laugh.

Game devs need to hit up black beauty salons and barbershops for some inspiration.
 

Lime

Member
For a company that strives on being inclusive and progressive, Bioware disappointed me with the ME:A character creator as blunoise mentioned in the OP:

male hair options ->
16f60f8d9e588146d0f017e1ae02b78c.png


cacf5aa005d9e68b79dc4878d4d66895.png


Women get nothing but cornrow or straight hair. Or cut real short I guess.

The plus side being that they don't look like shit "ingame" anymore thanks to quality control and forcing models skeleton on the users.

You can still change them significantly to alter their looks as illustrated above.

female hair options


The hair options is really disappointing. But then again, Bioware couldn't figure it out in DA:I either, so they just made the only black female party member bald and gave the black NPCs headdresses. They are *really* struggling with creating hair with their version of Frostbite and it doesn't seem to be a priority for them.
 
If you're looking for WHITE people to properly represent black people accurately in any medium, you're going to have a bad time. There's zero incentive for whites to do so, when the vast majority of people buying and creating games are white.

The onus should be on people of color to unapologetically create their own games and have their own studios.
Eh, no. I mean, if someone wants to make a studio with all or a majority of people of color, they certainly can but to act as if that is the solution to this problem is asinine. Development studios should be more diverse, and even if they aren't diverse, they should still attempt to include more diversity in their games. Horizon would be a good example, that's a game made by a Dutch studio who is likely majority white, yet they made an effort to portray diverse groups of people in their game and generally succeeded (questions of cultural appropriation aside). This same dedictation to diversity can be applied to character creators as well. Honestly there is no excuse for Western developers not to have more diverse options. Japanese games are a little different when it comes to the domestic market, but if they are looking at the western market they should consider this too.
 
Rendering hair is really hard in general, regardless of how different hair types move and react to light. But @ OP - I though the Character Del in Gears 4 looked great. The hair looks utterly fantastic.
screenshot950yak0.png

screenshot206zvbje.png

screenshot1498iaj0.png
 

Ronin Ray

Member
I always like how you get the comical Afro as a style shit always makes me laugh.

Game devs need to hit up black beauty salons and barbershops for some inspiration.

This would make for a great YouTube series . Just have someone taking game devs to black beauty salons and barbershops like an educational field trip.
 

Xaero Gravity

NEXT LEVEL lame™
Doesn't BioWare employ an openly racist prick? Or am I thinking of another development studio?

But yeah, the lack of options is pretty disappointing to see.



Edit: Ahh yes they do. Manveer Heir.
 

Armaros

Member
And then you compare them in same games were fantasy races get so many more options, some of them non-human. And you can see the amount of effort put into making various fictional races have lots of options, and real life counterparts get generic sometimes at most 3 stereotypes from decades ago.
 

Lime

Member
It's kinda ironic.

With Manveer Heir being so vocal about white people I'm really wondering why he and his team didn't bother with better "poc representation" and character customization that reflects it?
You can twitter all day about issues but you can't bring change in the field where it could matter much more and where you actually have an influence? That's a fraud to me.

Heir is the game designer and not a 3D artist or game director or producer. I'm also pretty sure that he's one of the few people of color at Bioware Montreal and can't throw his weight alone around to enact change on a collective level. This is on the shoulders of the producers, the directors, and the artists in charge of hair modeling.
 
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