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Men should also have the choice women have in becoming a parent

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S

Shanadeus

Banned
LdsYH.jpg


Someone I know has pretty much been forced into fatherhood by his girlfriend because of how his girlfriend has completely disregarded his wishes when she got pregnant.

Sure, he could have left her if he wanted to but that's really not a realistic option as society strongly looks down on these people regardless of the circumstances - they're just horrible dead-beats.

Then we have the other problem with the current system - child support. He still has to pay for the child he never agreed to having and is at the same time grouped together with truly horrible dads that leave their children that has already grown up seeing them as dads.

It really shouldn't be this way, not when we've time and time again changed other societal imbalances and injustices.

No, I'm not saying that men should decide what women are doing with their bodies. It's their body and it's their choice to become a mother or not. But men should have some sort of choice in become dads as well, especially when they've clearly stated that they're not interested in a child long before his partner has gotten pregnant.

If women can choose to not be mothers by aborting or adopting their child then fathers should be given as equal as possible choices too. Maybe they can sign a paper that they've agreed to no child being made - if she dismisses this contract and proceed to have one anyway then the man should be free to go.

Either way, we should focus on creating some form of equality in this situation and not leave it in the woman's hands to completely dictate the other's future.

What do you think?
 
C

captmcblack

Member
Why shouldn't the woman be like "hey, please don't put your penis inside me without a condom" as well?

If the man's choice is "wear a condom" and that makes it his responsibility, shouldn't the woman also have the responsibility of not letting raw dick enter her?
 
L

lightless_shado

Banned
Pinko Marx said:
You really oughta start a blog dude.
Click to expand...

Someone made him a live journal account. Obviously he's not using it.

I may as well say something about the issue while I'm here:
A woman has much more to lose if she gets pregnant. Most men just how much of a strain pregnancy can put on a woman(both mentally and physically)

The most "choice" a man makes is whether he should wear a condom or not or whether he should screw around with a girl who is on birth control.
 
J

JayDubya

Banned
Gaborn said:
You do. Wear a damn condom. Alternately, figure out a way for a man to grow a womb.
Click to expand...

B.K. said:
They do have a choice. If they don't want to be a father, wear a fucking condom.
Click to expand...

Irrelevant to the discussion.

The female partner has that same sort of decision point.
 
J

JGS

Banned
Shanadeus said:
LdsYH.jpg


Someone I know has pretty much been forced into fatherhood by his girlfriend because of how his girlfriend has completely disregarded his wishes when she got pregnant.

Sure, he could have left her if he wanted to but that's really not a realistic option as society strongly looks down on these people regardless of the circumstances - they're just horrible dead-beats.

Then we have the other problem with the current system - child support. He still has to pay for the child he never agreed to having and is at the same time grouped together with truly horrible dads that leave their children that has already grown up seeing them as dads.

It really shouldn't be this way, not when we've time and time again changed other societal imbalances and injustices.

No, I'm not saying that men should decide what women are doing with their bodies. It's their body and it's their choice to become a mother or not. But men should have some sort of choice in become dads as well, especially when they've clearly stated that they're not interested in a child long before his partner has gotten pregnant.

If women can choose to not be mothers by aborting or adopting their child then fathers should be given as equal as possible choices too. Maybe they can sign a paper that they've agreed to no child being made - if she dismisses this contract and proceed to have one anyway then the man should be free to go.

Either way, we should focus on creating some form of equality in this situation and not leave it in the woman's hands to completely dictate the other's future.

What do you think?
Click to expand...
The guy always chooses to have a kid. It's just the more stupid he is, the less he realizes that.

Women have a say in what goes on with their body. If support was truly an issue, than birth control would always be the bigger issue wouldn't it?
 
G

Gaborn

Member
JayDubya said:
The female partner has that same sort of decision point.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, it takes two to make a baby, and if the person who is carrying it keeps it to term then both should have to support the baby. If the mother opts not to the father may and sue her for child support. If the mother opts to and the father opts not to he should be sued for child support. If the mother and father both want custody they should both have the right to sue and make their case (this is all assuming they're not together).
 
Zoe

Zoe

Member
I believe men should be able to relinquish their rights and thus financial responsibility, but there should only be a small window during which they are allowed to make that decision (prior to the viability of the fetus).
 
A

Advance_Alarm

Member
why do women get half of a dudes money when they divorce (not talking about child support)? why dont they get a job instead of blaming a man for their problems all while taking his hard earned cash
 
H

HolyCheck

I want a tag give me a tag
The Bookerman said:
But if you did and it broke?
Click to expand...

Then you start up a website whos goal it is to release the secrets that we as the people demand to know!

Then you get arrested for rape (not rape rape)
 
J

JayDubya

Banned
Gaborn said:
Absolutely, it takes two to make a baby, and if the person who is carrying it keeps it to term then both should have to support the baby. If the mother opts not to the father may and sue her for child support. If the mother opts to and the father opts not to he should be sued for child support. If the mother and father both want custody they should both have the right to sue and make their case (this is all assuming they're not together).
Click to expand...

But of course, the mother may opt not to carry it to term at all, and thus abdicate all responsibility. The father may not. Furthermore, if the father does not want that to happen, the father has no say in whether his offspring lives or dies.
 
J

JGS

Banned
Zoe said:
I believe men should be able to relinquish their rights and thus financial responsibility, but there should only be a small window during which they are allowed to make that decision (prior to the viability of the fetus).
Click to expand...
That would/should still require signed contracts to work which certainly kills the mood but gets it in writing.
 
S

samus i am

Member
There has been a couple ties where I have thought to myself "This feels good. A little too good. FUCK THE CONDOM BROKE!!!!!"

That makes things really stressful. :lol
 
G

Gaborn

Member
Advance_Alarm said:
why do women get half of a dudes money when they divorce (not talking about child support)? why dont they get a job instead of blaming a man for their problems all while taking his hard earned cash
Click to expand...

Either party can get alimony in a divorce. There are women currently who pay child support. There are also deadbeat women who are currently refusing to pay child support. Painting this as some grand conspiracy against men is inaccurate.

JayDubya - Sure, but that's a structural inequality based on the biology of the situation. If a woman opts to carry the child she has 9 months of discomfort and then, if the man is unhelpful has to care for the baby. The man meanwhile is essentially free to do as they please. I think it's unfortunate that essentially one parent can opt to terminate the pregnancy, but that goes back to my "artificial womb" comment. Until there's a better way to do it I think the system is as good as it can be.
 
C

ConfusingJazz

Member
Help me out here:

Is Shanadeus just a freshman in college and taking an intro to philosophy course or something?

Or did he just get into weed or acid?
 
S

SnakeswithLasers

Member
captmcblack said:
Why shouldn't the woman be like "hey, please don't put your penis inside me without a condom" as well?

If the man's choice is "wear a condom" and that makes it his responsibility, shouldn't the woman also have the responsibility of not letting raw dick enter her?
Click to expand...
It's pretty common sense, if you don't want to deal with something, you have to be proactive about the situation. Sitting back and saying, "Well, she didn't make me wear a condom" isn't exactly a compelling reason why you should be obviated of responsibility.

And in this theoretical case, the woman isn't the one shirking responsibility like the man wants to, she's just looking for equal responsibility since both parties were equally irresponsible. So he should have been smarter in the first place.
 
L

lightless_shado

Banned
JayDubya said:
The female partner has that same sort of decision point.
Click to expand...

Think about it as though a conversation were taking place.
Guy: I don't want to wear a condom
Girl: It's okay, I'm on the pill
Guy: Aw cool beans. Lets get down to it then! *unzip*

or

Guy: I don't want to wear a condom
Girl: I'm not on the pill/don't want to start
Guy: Well that sucks. How about a BJ?*unzip*

or

Girl: We're not fucking unless you wear a condom
Guy: Okay then I'll get a condom*zip*

This isn't the 18th century. Birth control options are more pervasive and sophisticated than they were before. Now if this discussion was about sex and pregnancy in the third world then that would be interesting, but OP seems to be implying that this discussion is about surprise pregnancies that happen in developed countries. It cant be stressed enough just how much of an (important) burden is put on the woman when she gets pregnant. She should have more say by default, especially since a man can just shrug his shoulders and flee the country while the mother must somehow find a way to support the child or deal with the crushing pain of having to give her baby up for adoption.
 
dem

dem

Member
Wear a condom is the correct answer

Ive been guilty of going bareback when i shouldn't have.. but i browbeat the girls into taking the morning after pill.

Never trust that they're on the pill. NEVVVVVERRRRRR.
 
O

Outlaw

Banned
Yes they do, it called "Don't put your dick in a girls vagina" Once a girl a pregnant then its 100% her decission on what to do until the baby is born.
 
L

lsslave

Jew Gamer
Sorry OP; I didn't have time to respond to your message.

Zoe said:
I believe men should be able to relinquish their rights and thus financial responsibility, but there should only be a small window during which they are allowed to make that decision (prior to the viability of the fetus).
Click to expand...

100 percent my stance on the situation. Within the first 1 or 2 months a guy should be able to opt out of it; you can't just wait until the last minute and get cold feet though.
 
D

DMG-01

Member
HolyCheck said:
Then you start up a website whos goal it is to release the secrets that we as the people demand to know!

Then you get arrested for rape (not rape rape)
Click to expand...
After I read that post I scrolled down the thread to see if this joke was already made. You beat me to it. :lol
 
J

Jeff Albertson

Member
I really think the OP just sits around trying to think of topics to make for attention now. Gimmick posters suck.

On topic I'd like to think in relationships the man has an equal say but outside of relationships then it would be different.
 
Dude Abides

Dude Abides

Banned
10-15 years ago there were guys advocating something called "Abortion for men" whereby a man would be absolved of all child support responsibilities on condition he provided the woman enough money to pay for an abortion (or half the cost, can't remember).

I tried to find it but googling "abortion for men" just brings up pro-life crazies lying about how emotionally scarring it is for men.
 
Z

zoku88

Member
JGS said:
That would/should still require signed contracts to work which certainly kills the mood but gets it in writing.
Click to expand...
Well, she said viability, so that's a period of several months. I don't think she was thinking of making the decision, like, right before having sex, which would be a definite mood killer.
 
J

JayDubya

Banned
For the record, I totally do not support the notion that a male partner should be allowed to unilaterally abdicate responsibility to his offspring.

But if the female partner may do so, while the male partner may not, that is utter misandry.
 
Z

ZephyrFate

Banned
Zoe said:
I believe men should be able to relinquish their rights and thus financial responsibility, but there should only be a small window during which they are allowed to make that decision (prior to the viability of the fetus).
Click to expand...
This is the only post in the thread I agree with.
 
J

JGS

Banned
zoku88 said:
Well, she said viability, so that's a period of several months. I don't think she was thinking of making the decision, like, right before having sex, which would be a definite mood killer.
Click to expand...
I know, but the plan would still have to involve mutual consent.

They could sign a contract afterward. However, I don't see the logic pr possibility of a girl going up to a guy, telling him she's pregnant, him checking the calendar, & then thanking god that he is within the opt-out period.
 
S

samus i am

Member
Dude Abides said:
10-15 years ago there were guys advocating something called "Abortion for men" whereby a man would be absolved of all child support responsibilities on condition he provided the woman enough money to pay for an abortion (or half the cost, can't remember).

I tried to find it but googling "abortion for men" just brings up pro-life crazies lying about how emotionally scarring it is for men.
Click to expand...

That makes a lot of sense.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Someone I know has pretty much been forced into fatherhood by his girlfriend because of how his girlfriend has completely disregarded his wishes when she got pregnant.
Click to expand...
Your problem is in the bold. It should read, "when he got her pregnant". It takes two to tango, and he made his decision when he put the seed in the ground.

Just imagine if the roles were reversed, and women were demanding some authority over a male's body. It would not go well.
 
Z

zoku88

Member
JGS said:
I know, but the plan would still have to involve mutual consent.

They could sign a contract afterward. However, I don't see the logic pr possibility of a girl going up to a guy, telling him she's pregnant, him checking the calendar, & then thanking god that he is within the opt-out period.
Click to expand...
I would think that knowing that you are pregnant, but not telling the other party would be wrong under Zoe's rules.

That what I would assume. It wouldn't really work otherwise.\
GhaleonEB said:
Your problem is in the bold. It should read, "when he got her pregnant". It takes two to tango, and he made his decision when he put the seed in the ground.

Just imagine if the roles were reversed, and women were demanding some authority over a male's body. It would not go well.
Click to expand...
When shanadeus says "become a parent", he doesn't mean, opting out of parenthood would mean having an adoption, though. So it's not really about controlling the woman's body. It's more about not being responsible for the birthed child.
 
S

Shanadeus

Banned
Regarding the condom argument:

The man isn't making a decision to have a child by not wearing a condom, have the condom fail or in any other way unintentionally impregnate his partner.
Just as the woman can decide whether or not she wants to be a mother post-sex act as well as post-impregnation the man should too.

What Zoe said should really be implemented now.
If both partners are agreeing on not having a child then why should we stop them from making it legally binding?
 
N

nyong

Banned
The government can't force women to have an abortion, neither is it feasible for them to pick up the tab. Guys are going to have to put up with this until the end of time. What someone needs to invent is a no-harm, untraceable abortion pill you can slip into her cheerios.
 
R

Ri'Orius

Member
JayDubya said:
For the record, I totally do not support the notion that a male partner should be allowed to unilaterally abdicate responsibility to his offspring.

But if the female partner may do so, while the male partner may not, that is utter misandry.
Click to expand...

The situations aren't symmetrical. I'd love it if there were a way to create equality, but in the case of a pregnant woman, there really isn't.

Whether a pregnant woman chooses to abort, put up for adoption or keep a child, it'll suck for her. All three options are way shittier for the woman than they are for the man. Figure out a way to resolve that and maybe you'll have a point.
 
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