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Late to the Party: The Wire (spoilers unmarked)
- Thread starter U5230
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Best thing about Omar's death is that the kid who killed him is also the same one who was pantomiming Omar on the streets in an earlier season - Omar was killed from behind by someone young and impressionable that he had directly, yet unintentionally, influenced, while Omar had also all along been preaching a "code of the streets."
The series is filled with beautiful, devastating ironic touches like that, and it's one of the many reasons The Wire hasn't been surpassed.
The series is filled with beautiful, devastating ironic touches like that, and it's one of the many reasons The Wire hasn't been surpassed.
MWS Natural
Member
I was in shock for like an entire day after that. My ex and I watched the entire series togther and I just kept saying, "damn I can't believe Omar went out like that". It's what makes the Wire so amazing there is no picture perfect ending. No going out with gunz blazing shit like you are used to seeing in the movies and on TV.Acid08 said:
BEST SHOW EVER.
MWS Natural said:
Plus after Omar dies, you get various characters basically going "who gives a shit." Omar by the end was fully demythologized.
I remember while the series was running, there were some complaints that for such a realistic show, characters like Omar and Brother Mouzone leaned more towards the fictional due to them seemingly being untouchable. However, that just ended up making Omar's death much more powerful since he was previously conveyed as the type of guy who could get out of any situation and would never get caught (either by the police or by a bullet). So when he gets gunned down by some little punk bitch, it becomes far more striking, and even jarring.
(Also, it was made clear Mouzone wasn't untouchable, since Omar himself fucked him up.)
Just finished it and I'm almost at a loss for words right now. I'm going to do a deeper write up later but right now just a few quick thoughts.
McNulty was something else, what a beautiful character. I was surprised at just how much of an asshole he was at first but I grew to know his character as the deeply flawed hero of the show.
Omar was one of my favorite characters as well. He was an incredible badass the entire time but as the game changed his role became less specific. He couldn't be the guy who just stuck up drug dealers for forever. He was the devil and the angel of Baltimore and his end was just so bittersweet. He had survived so many difficult situation but he was killed when he had lost his cool, when he was just out for blood. He gave up some of who he was for so long and as soon as that happened he was done. I really like that they set Michael up to take his place, it just shows that just as soon as something ends there's someone else to step up and take the place. I really didn't like what they did to him at first, he was so strong and stood by his convictions and going to Marlo's gang just didn't feel right. They developed him beautifully after that and when he took out Snoop I couldn't have been more happy. The game is the game even when the specifics change. I feel like Dookie is set up to be the next Bubbles. He's going to be that same tweaker that is just too smart for that shit.
Marlo surprised me at the end there. I really had no opinion of him for a while, he just seemed like the guy who was behind the scenes but either too scared or too proud to step up and be a soldier. He was the opposite of Avon, who I also loved. Avon was all about the game and being a soldier, he knew what he loved and what he wanted to do. The scene in prison where Marlo finally learns his name was being dragged around by Omar was the first time I actually saw some emotion from the guy. Then when he leaves Levys little rich dude shindig and takes a corner for himself he actually developed into more than just some kid who honestly looked like he had just lucked his way into where he was. I'm glad he turned out more Avon than Stringer at the end.
Snoop and Chris were fucking cold, Snoop ended up dead and Chris ended up in prison for life because he made a mistake. Snoop especially made me upset, she looked down on Michael for questioning what they were doing and thank god she did because it just cemented her as one of the only characters in the show that I can honestly say I didn't like anything about.
So many thoughts right now. It's over and I kind of feel like a friend of mine is gone. The Wire is one of the only shows that DEMANDS your attention. It isn't bullshit and it doesn't pull punches, it lays everything out for you in such a beautiful fashion. No one is perfect, hell most everyone is deeply flawed. Carver is corrupt at first, Daniels hardly commands respect, Ronda fucks everyone she can, and Carcetti tries to do the right thing but near the end has obviously just evolved into another corrupt politician with empty promises when he realizes what has to be done. A poetic masterpiece, why can't more shows be like this?
Edit: One more thing, SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEIIIIIT.
McNulty was something else, what a beautiful character. I was surprised at just how much of an asshole he was at first but I grew to know his character as the deeply flawed hero of the show.
Omar was one of my favorite characters as well. He was an incredible badass the entire time but as the game changed his role became less specific. He couldn't be the guy who just stuck up drug dealers for forever. He was the devil and the angel of Baltimore and his end was just so bittersweet. He had survived so many difficult situation but he was killed when he had lost his cool, when he was just out for blood. He gave up some of who he was for so long and as soon as that happened he was done. I really like that they set Michael up to take his place, it just shows that just as soon as something ends there's someone else to step up and take the place. I really didn't like what they did to him at first, he was so strong and stood by his convictions and going to Marlo's gang just didn't feel right. They developed him beautifully after that and when he took out Snoop I couldn't have been more happy. The game is the game even when the specifics change. I feel like Dookie is set up to be the next Bubbles. He's going to be that same tweaker that is just too smart for that shit.
Marlo surprised me at the end there. I really had no opinion of him for a while, he just seemed like the guy who was behind the scenes but either too scared or too proud to step up and be a soldier. He was the opposite of Avon, who I also loved. Avon was all about the game and being a soldier, he knew what he loved and what he wanted to do. The scene in prison where Marlo finally learns his name was being dragged around by Omar was the first time I actually saw some emotion from the guy. Then when he leaves Levys little rich dude shindig and takes a corner for himself he actually developed into more than just some kid who honestly looked like he had just lucked his way into where he was. I'm glad he turned out more Avon than Stringer at the end.
Snoop and Chris were fucking cold, Snoop ended up dead and Chris ended up in prison for life because he made a mistake. Snoop especially made me upset, she looked down on Michael for questioning what they were doing and thank god she did because it just cemented her as one of the only characters in the show that I can honestly say I didn't like anything about.
So many thoughts right now. It's over and I kind of feel like a friend of mine is gone. The Wire is one of the only shows that DEMANDS your attention. It isn't bullshit and it doesn't pull punches, it lays everything out for you in such a beautiful fashion. No one is perfect, hell most everyone is deeply flawed. Carver is corrupt at first, Daniels hardly commands respect, Ronda fucks everyone she can, and Carcetti tries to do the right thing but near the end has obviously just evolved into another corrupt politician with empty promises when he realizes what has to be done. A poetic masterpiece, why can't more shows be like this?
Edit: One more thing, SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEIIIIIT.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
You know, I just marathoned the whole thing over the last few days and I find it funny that the greatest injustice that I come away with from the series is that the fucker reporter wins a Pulitzer Prize for making up bullshit.
Go figure.
Go figure.
As somebody else mentioned, the quality of the show went down as each season of the show passed. Season 1 was and still is IMO the best show of television produced. Season 5 was merely was complete crap in comparison to S1 - not only was the the direction of the show far away from the real core of the show (cops vs robbers), it was fraught with shitty writing.
David Simon should've stuck with his original plan of having a different wiretap target each season. Instead he chose to put in irrelevant subplots like Hamsterdam, newspapers, and state of the schools. As the number of subplot goes up, the plot complexity of the main cops vs robbers storyline goes down. If I wanted to watch kids in school, I'd watch Boston Public - not the Wire.
In summary, I'd say the show was a disappointment in terms of how good it could have been.
David Simon should've stuck with his original plan of having a different wiretap target each season. Instead he chose to put in irrelevant subplots like Hamsterdam, newspapers, and state of the schools. As the number of subplot goes up, the plot complexity of the main cops vs robbers storyline goes down. If I wanted to watch kids in school, I'd watch Boston Public - not the Wire.
In summary, I'd say the show was a disappointment in terms of how good it could have been.
brianjones
Member
tnsply100 said:
that sounds kinda repetitive to me
not sure how you figure those plotlines are irrelevant.. not enough gangster shit?
brianjones said:
"Cops going after criminals" is a genre - Its been done a million times before the Wire, and will be done a million times after it. The only reason it can get repetitive is if the writers make it repetitive - coming up with fresh ideas for a new season is a writer's job.
Irrelevant to the primary cops vs robbers plotline. As you waste screentime on unrelated plotlines, you lose plot complexity on the main case in the season. Season 1 didn't waste any time on any irrelevant subplots. Seasons 3,4, and 5 had plenty of subplots that weren't strictly tied into the hunt for the criminals.
Hamsterdam for instance should've never been a part of the show. Aside from the obvious and utter stupidity of having three open air drug markets staying secret for five weeks, it did not add any depth whatsoever to the hunt for Marlo or Stringer/Avon.
PhoenixDark
Banned
tnsply100 said:
S1 starts a bit slow. S3 and S4 are generally considered the best seasons, and two of the best seasons in television history so I have no idea what you're talking about.
Finally, The Wire has never been about "cops vs robbers" which is a rapper simplistic way of looking at it. Simon has said his intention was for each season to have a theme, whether it was reform, schools, media, etc.
edit: even that interview confirms the five theme plan
q_q said:
No. I "get it". Its just that I don't give a crap about why black kids are turning to crime. I was interested in seeing cops go after criminals (a reason expectation given the name of the show and S1). If the show had been advertised like Boston Public, I would've known never to turn in. I'm simply not interested.
If I had a genuine interest in the ills of urban society, I'd watch real documentaries, not some fictionalized leftist propoganda from Simon.
PhoenixDark said:
He changed his mind. Read his interviews - his original intention was to have a different wiretap target each season. I can find you links if you like.
See http://tv.ign.com/articles/742/742350p1.html
PhoenixDark
Banned
Reading your posts it's clear you don't understand what separates The Wire from cop/procedural shows. It's not about cops chasing bad guys. Not even the first season is as simple as you're trying to convince us. It's about all aspects of crime in a city, its origins, how it is combated, how it effects the community, etc. Blowing off S4 because of the focus on kids turning to crime is quite ridiculous. It introduces a group of well written, well acted kids who's lives are altered by their environment in different ways. It's done brilliantly.
Most people will agree S5 is eh, but the other four seasons are nigh flawless. Really the only weakspot is at the beginning of S2 as it introduces new characters while old characters reminisce about what happened in S1; but that's only a couple episodes, and by the end it surpasses the first season.
edit: even that interview confirms the five theme plan
Most people will agree S5 is eh, but the other four seasons are nigh flawless. Really the only weakspot is at the beginning of S2 as it introduces new characters while old characters reminisce about what happened in S1; but that's only a couple episodes, and by the end it surpasses the first season.
edit: even that interview confirms the five theme plan
mellowyellowod
Member
tnsply100 said:
I think you probably watched the show for a different reason than most. It was an examination of the modern American city, and education, politics, and journalism are vital to that story.
I'd also disagree with your stance on Hamsterdam, I felt it provided good tension between functionality and ideology of the war on drugs and further fleshed out the political and bureaucratic ramifications of police action.
Like you said, cops vs robbers are a dime a dozen. For me at least, the wire was near perfect and I'm glad that the show was taken in such a great direction. Like others have said, for me S3 and 4 are the best seasons of television ever
PhoenixDark said:
Yeah, I really don't understand how someone watching season 1 simply as a serialized Law and Order could see it as one of the best seasons of TV ever. Season 1 was as strong as the other seasons in its statements about institutionalism, while the stories changed throughout the seasons, the majors themes were always a constant
That's not really the real core of the show. Yes, the cops and robbers bits are important, but it's the exploration of the connectedness and the ramifications of those elements to society that makes the Wire... the Wire.tnsply100 said:
The real core of the show is the modern day American city. All the pieces matter. Documentaries are fine, but storytelling from this different side of America is something we very very rarely see. It's sorry it's not what you expected, but I maintain that it plays a very important role in television's contribution to society, one that extends beyond entertainment (but is still entertaining).
PhoenixDark said:
The point of the interview link was to show that the original intention was a narrowly focused wiretap target plotline each season. That only changed later to address the ills of urban society.
Having a different taste in entertainment is "ridiculous"? Okay whatever.
BorkBork said:
And this is clearly false.. Explain to me why cops and robbers plot is featured in every single season of the show? Why is the show named "the Wire"?
We managed just fine without exploring the death of the middle class before Season 2
We managed just fine without Hamsterdam, mayoral races, before Season 3.
We managed just fine without trying to explore the school system before Season 4
We managed just fine without try to explore the media and newspapers before Season 5.
But what we NEVER had was a season where the cops weren't going after criminals.
Can you really imagine a season of the Wire where the police weren't trying to bring a mastermind down? (EDIT - To be clear here, such a show could no doubt be successful as Boston Public and other shows are - I mean to say it just wouldn't be the same show)
If "cops and robbers" was just one of the many aspects the show wanted to explore, why wasn't it tossed aside after the thorough treatment we saw it get in S1 ?
Face it - the criminals and the cops made the show what it is.
PhoenixDark
Banned
tnsply100 said:
The earliest inception yes, but once they started writing the first season it became something entirely different. So no, the show was never a cops vs robbers show.
I call it ridiculous because you aren't criticizing the show based on any factual basis, and instead complaining because the rest of the seasons weren't basic cop shows - in short, you don't seem to "get" the show. The Wire is not about that. It was always about the "ills" of urban society given its emphasis on the drug trade, crime, police culture, etc. It branched out in each following season (post industrialism in S2, reform in S3, schools in S4, media in S5). Yet none of the seasons stop examining crime; the first three seasons focus on the same crime organization, and the last two focus on another organization.
Labeling it "liberal propaganda" does little but paint yourself as closed minded. The Wire doesn't take political sides. It examines a failed system. Sure it definitely gets over preachy at times, especially in S5. But overall it's one of the best and most deep things to ever be put on television
edit: nevermind, you clearly don't get it
PhoenixDark
Banned
S1 also had a theme, it's not like that started with S2. From institutional dysfunction to individualism within a group (McNulty and D'Angelo)
PhoenixDark said:
Themes are completely irrelevant here. What is being discussed is plot.
The argument being made is that the cops vs robbers plot is central to the Wire - so much so that there could not have been a season of the show without police going after criminals. In contrast, the show was able to survive just fine without having plotlines regarding : drug legalization (Hamsterdam), mayoral races, the school system, and the state of the media in various seasons.
You can read abstract themes like 'institutional inertia' in any plotline under the sun.
God damn people.
The show clearly seemed to set a pace for me.
First season, focusing on the city, mostly on GROUND LEVEL cops.
Then they had the second season which brought in the ports, unions and labor issues, including showing how the drugs come into the city, and they also still showed us what season 1 established, which was the city and the cops.
Then season 3 came, and we saw more of the upper brass in the police department. More of the deputy of operations, we got to know the police commissioner, we got to see and know much more of clay Davis, and got to know a few of the councilmen and see how the politics played a part in the shaping of the police work and how it influenced it. They also showed the workings of how ex-convicts work once out of prison. But of course, in addition to this we saw what season one established, the police department, we also had (probably not nearly enough) what season 2 brought us. The drug dealers who had the connection with the 'Greeks; who brought the drugs in via the ports (season 2).
Then season 4 came, and it focused on the youth of the city, showing us the schools and how they fit into the city. How the kids grow into the drug trades etc, and it also fleshed out what season 3 started by showing us more of the cities politics with Carcetti becoming Mayor, what season 2 started with a more detail about the 'Greeks' and how they handled their drug shipments to proposition joe, and of course more of what season 1 started, the ground level of police work.
Then finally there's season 5 which shows the newspaper and the medias connection with the city, and of course what season 4 started, by fleshing out the path the kids took as they grew up, what season 3 started by showing us how the cities politics evolved (and went full circle) what season 2 started by showing the changing of hands from Joe to Marlo to Slim Charles+the others, and of course the season 1 staple ground level police work.
If for whatever reason you watched 5 seasons and god knows how many hours of that shit and all you came away with was that the show was just a 'cops and robbers' show then that's your fucking problem tbh. They clearly wanted to tell a story more multi-sided than that. And they very clearly tried to add a new viewpoint to the city each season and accumulate it into the whole season to season to season.
And sure, the show needed a name, and sure they called it the wire. But they sure as shit wasn't going to call it 'The Baltimore unions' because that shit wouldn't have made any sense in season one. And they wouldn't call it 'The Baltimore police hierarchy' because that would have been dumb ass shit considering season 1 and 2's content also, and 'The children and schools of Baltimore' wouldn't have made any damn sense in the first 3 seasons, and 'The politicians of Baltimore' sure as shit wouldn't have either. This is a good thread, and I don't want to shit it up....but come the fuck on.. The show was about the city, and the many aspects of it. Stop being stupid and trying to argue that in some fantasy land of hypotheticals they COULD have made it a cops'n'robbers show.
The show clearly seemed to set a pace for me.
First season, focusing on the city, mostly on GROUND LEVEL cops.
Then they had the second season which brought in the ports, unions and labor issues, including showing how the drugs come into the city, and they also still showed us what season 1 established, which was the city and the cops.
Then season 3 came, and we saw more of the upper brass in the police department. More of the deputy of operations, we got to know the police commissioner, we got to see and know much more of clay Davis, and got to know a few of the councilmen and see how the politics played a part in the shaping of the police work and how it influenced it. They also showed the workings of how ex-convicts work once out of prison. But of course, in addition to this we saw what season one established, the police department, we also had (probably not nearly enough) what season 2 brought us. The drug dealers who had the connection with the 'Greeks; who brought the drugs in via the ports (season 2).
Then season 4 came, and it focused on the youth of the city, showing us the schools and how they fit into the city. How the kids grow into the drug trades etc, and it also fleshed out what season 3 started by showing us more of the cities politics with Carcetti becoming Mayor, what season 2 started with a more detail about the 'Greeks' and how they handled their drug shipments to proposition joe, and of course more of what season 1 started, the ground level of police work.
Then finally there's season 5 which shows the newspaper and the medias connection with the city, and of course what season 4 started, by fleshing out the path the kids took as they grew up, what season 3 started by showing us how the cities politics evolved (and went full circle) what season 2 started by showing the changing of hands from Joe to Marlo to Slim Charles+the others, and of course the season 1 staple ground level police work.
If for whatever reason you watched 5 seasons and god knows how many hours of that shit and all you came away with was that the show was just a 'cops and robbers' show then that's your fucking problem tbh. They clearly wanted to tell a story more multi-sided than that. And they very clearly tried to add a new viewpoint to the city each season and accumulate it into the whole season to season to season.
And sure, the show needed a name, and sure they called it the wire. But they sure as shit wasn't going to call it 'The Baltimore unions' because that shit wouldn't have made any sense in season one. And they wouldn't call it 'The Baltimore police hierarchy' because that would have been dumb ass shit considering season 1 and 2's content also, and 'The children and schools of Baltimore' wouldn't have made any damn sense in the first 3 seasons, and 'The politicians of Baltimore' sure as shit wouldn't have either. This is a good thread, and I don't want to shit it up....but come the fuck on.. The show was about the city, and the many aspects of it. Stop being stupid and trying to argue that in some fantasy land of hypotheticals they COULD have made it a cops'n'robbers show.
mellowyellowod
Member
tnsply100 said:
The themes of the Wire are a huge part in what sets itself apart from other shows. Theme and plot aren't entirely exclusive things, the plot's purpose in a show like the wire is to drive home themes. You might not like the show, and that's fine, but to argue that themes aren't part of this argument is strange.
Like I said before, its also weird that you find season 1 to be the greatest season of television ever produced when you're trumpeting it as a well executed serialized cop show with no depth being important to you other than "cops fighting drug dealers", especially when you already said that there are dozens of other cop shows like it.
mellowyellowod said:
This deserves to be addressed.
I'm a huge fan of mystery/detective novels. So, when I saw S1 of the show, it was literally exactly what I'd been asking for in a TV Series. An incredibly complex case with a plethora of new characters - cops and criminals - to keep track of. Pen registers, beepers, encoded messages, video surveillance, wiretaps, snitches, ultra-cautious kingpins, ....I challenge anyone to show me a television show that has described a case from beginning to end as completely and concisely as the Wire S1 has. Cops trying the outsmart the criminals (while dealing with their bosses), and criminals trying to stay one step ahead - that's exactly what I wanted to see.
I was begging for more... Imagine my disappointment when we started seeing the crap that followed....
Why the hell is Bubbles still on the show?? He was the snitch that kicked of S1's case. I don't give a flying fuck about his drug problem and his family.
Why the hell are we following Cutty? He is "out of the game" and therefore no longer relevant to the show.
What the hell is up with these kids? They aren't criminals or snitches. Get back to the case..
Mayoral Race? WTF??
etc..
In summary a serialized, detailed version of Law and Order was precisely what I wanted (and still do want). Unfortunately, these shows aren't possible - the public's attention span is restricted to 40 minute CSI episodes - which still have multiple cases.
Themes are completely irrelevant to my entertainment. Quite frankly I don't give a crap about what Simon wants to say about the middle class or the American city. I'm interested in seeing how the plot develops - how criminals outsmart each other, what type of techniques they will use to counter surveillance, etc. Whether the plot happens to make a grandiose statement about Institutions being resistant to change... I don't really care.
When did I saw there are dozens of cop shows like it? I'd be in your eternal debt if you could point me to other television shows which detail complex criminal cases like S1 of the Wire does.
The closest I've come to this is a British show called Prime Suspect - but those are cases are still considerably shorter.
PhoenixDark
Banned
How exactly was the "cops v robbers" detailed procedural stuff lacking in S2-S4? Because there were more side stories that didn't revolve around cops v robbers? S1 had plenty of side stories as well...
Trent Strong
Banned
The woman who plays Kima is the weak link of the show. Not a great actress.
PhoenixDark said:
S1 did not have any side stories that took time away from the case. There was a laser sharp focus on the case and the people related to the case. You could initially argue that the Barksdales vs Omar was a side plot, but Omar became inextricably tied to the case halfway through the season with Bird's arrest. Can you tell me what 'side stories' you're referring to here?
S2 - Season 2 is nothing more than S1 with a different set of criminals (this is a good thing). S1 explored the street drug trade since in S1 the criminals were street dealers. S2 explored the docks since the criminals in S2 were dock workers. This was all fine except for a couple of points - much of the screentime was wasted on the Barksdales who were irrelevant to S2. Ziggy's antics were also quite frankly tiring. Still, second best season of the show.
S3 - Serious trouble here. Hamsterdam had no business being shown in the show. Cutty, Bubbles, Carcetti, etc had no business being in the show. Significant screentime wasted on these subplots which had nothing to do with the Stanfield/Barksdale hunt.
S4 - Quite frankly a joke. I don't need to explain here how pathetic the cops vs robbers plotline here was. No wiretap at all. Too much focus on Carcetti, kids, etc.
The fundamental problem here is that the more distinct plotlines a show has, the shallower each becomes - screentime is limited and finite. This is why I prefer shows that focus on a single plotline with no side trips. Early seasons of Law and Order are a perfect example of this - no wasted time on anything unrelated to the real case -Of course, unfortunately, the cases only last for 1 or 2 episodes and do not reach the complexity of the one in S1.
Acid08 said:
As mentioned before, "cops vs robbers" is a genre - its not like David Simon invented it. It would only get as repetitive as the writers wanted it to. Its a writers job to come up with fresh ideas.
I would've had no problem with detectives going after white collar criminals in one season for instance (not politicians).
PhoenixDark
Banned
tnsply100 said:
The criminals in S2 were the dock workers? What the fuck..?
In S1 you have the Wallace story, Bubbles and his friend, Kima and her girlfriend, McNulty's divorce, etc
Maybe you should watch another show. The Wire isn't what you're looking for
But it's all part of this overarching story with incredible ties to everything that happens in it. Everything fits together so well, all the different elements mixing together better than any other show I've seen. I would really like to see what you would suggest instead of it.tnsply100 said:
The Sbotkas and Horseface were criminals - hence the focus on them.PhoenixDark said:
Wallace's story is the story of a snitch being eliminated by Stringer. Integral part of the case IMO.
Bubbles' story is again of a snitch being born out of the ruthlessness of the criminals (Bodie, and the others). This snitch jumpstarts the police case. Pretty relevant to the case IMO.
Yup - this is fair. However, you must remember that these McNulty and Kima's personal affairs take up at most 15 minutes the whole season. Nothing anywhere on the level of Hamsterdam, Carcetti's ambitions, the education plotline - these were all huge plotlines that took up major chunks of screentime throughout seasons.
Too late for that don't you think?
PhoenixDark
Banned
They were huge parts that took up large chunks, but many were deeply rooted in the criminal aspect. Hamperstam was all about cops v criminals, and had great implications for Avon's people for instance. It wasn't meaningless to the case.
In S4, the education angle was also deeply tied to crime considering half the kids were involved in the drug game. Certainly a side story, but they were like Wallace it connected to the criminal story.
Outside of the first season of The Wire, what other "cops v criminal" shows do you think are good or amazing? Have you seen The Shield?
In S4, the education angle was also deeply tied to crime considering half the kids were involved in the drug game. Certainly a side story, but they were like Wallace it connected to the criminal story.
Outside of the first season of The Wire, what other "cops v criminal" shows do you think are good or amazing? Have you seen The Shield?
Acid08 said:
I'm glad you (and others) enjoyed it. Some of us didn't - but that's to be expected.
I'm no writer, so I haven't spent much time dreaming up plotlines. As mentioned, the cops vs criminals genre is large. They could've had seasons tackling white collar criminals, perhaps another with the mafia families, another one with terrorists (no need to restrict the show to Baltimore), another season perhaps with some murder sprees...
The sky is the limit here... I'm no writer - but I'm confident that the whole cops vs criminals genre has not dried up.
PhoenixDark said:
To the hunt for Avon/Stringer, Hamsterdam was quite irrelevant. There were random things here and there - like Bodie getting off because of 'contrapment'.. but nothing major. If you took Hamsterdam out of S3, it would've made no effect on the main plot of Stringer being tapped by Freamon's undercover work, and Avon being snitched on by Stringer - and Marlo keeping his real estate by being the winner in the war vs Barksdales.
I'd argue 'Hamsterdam' wasn't really cops VERSUS criminals. It was more like cops & criminals trying to work together at something and it failing in front of societal inertia and prejudice.
I've seen parts of Prime Suspect which I thought was excellent. Yes, I've seen the Shield - I thought it was great. Early seasons of Law and Order (original not any spinoff) are some of my favorites (though of course quite short).
I'd have a similar rant about the Shield if the show had suddenly started focusing on something irrelevant like the morality of insurance companies in California. (And I'm sure, I'd have other people jumping down my throat saying the show wasn't ever intended to be just strike team vs criminals)
PhoenixDark
Banned
So basically a bunch of generic straight forward plots, ok. S2 did the mafia a bit, which some thought was convulted. Terrorism and white collar crime make no freaking sense. It's the streets of Baltimore, not New York
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
OP, Check out Breaking Bad if you haven't. That and The Wire are in my all-time favorites.
Black Mamba
Member
tnsply100 said:
He didn't change his mind and your interview link says nothing of the sort.
note the implication that the political and reform season was already around conceived.
Per your link.
the only thing that changed was that he decided to not abandon the barksdale crew altogether.. From day 1 the intent was to describe the American City (and specifically the failures, etc) and they decided their starting point would be a Wiretap case on a drug gang. After they set up that world, they decided to figure out which specific aspects of the City they wanted to address and then fleshed those out.
PhoenixDark
Banned
tnsply100 said:
You must be trolling lmao I'm going to bed
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