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Forza Motorsport 4 gameplay preview (leaked)
- Thread starter LordPhoque
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Graphics Horse
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AMUSIX said:
Possible it's a lower altitude part of that area, yeah. I don't think it's one of those famous passes featured in Top Gear anyway.
The alpine course is likely a bunch of circuits rather than point to point, you can even see a point where it crosses over itself under and over that crazy bridge.
Ski lift with view of Eiger and Tschuggen, this is literally only 1 mile away from GT5's area, lol.
saladine1 said:
Roughly, image based lighting means you use images of the surrounding environment to compute the lighting on an object. The data gathered can often be referred to as a 'light probe'.
In most racing games you have a realtime reflection (typically a cubemap). This is pretty simple, it simulates when light hits a reflective surface it bounces straight off in the reflected direction. This is primitive image based lighting.
Trouble is, most light doesn't bounce off directly in a perfectly reflected direction. Usually it is bounced off in a diffuse manner. This means it scatters in all directions (tending towards the direction of the surface normal).
Finally, you get 'anisotropic reflection', which basically means light won't bounce off uniformly - it'll bounce off at different colour / intensity in different directions and depending on the incident angle etc - hair is a great example. This is hard to simulate and not many games try. Doing so is often referred to as using a BRDF. Polyphony do an approximation of this using scanned data.
Ignoring the last one because it's so complex; diffuse reflection *can* be simulated in realtime with the reflection cubemap. A rough approximate is to blur the cubemap over 90 degrees. This is very hard to do efficiently - large blurs aren't cheap. What you end up with is a very blurred version of the reflection (Storing it at the resolution of the reflection is kinda pointless)
A much better way to store it is using a Spherical Harmonic. (More info and some images)..
The end result of this, is that to compute lighting for a car you can compute the direct lighting (eg sunlight) as you would normally, then sample the SH to get the ambient light, sample the cubemap to get direct reflection. This can be generated in realtime based on the surrounding geometry. The main difference is is that it is a more physically accurate simulation of how the object is lit, and isn't heavily based on artist faking or tweaking - it's based on the actual environment.
A simple example is that in forza 3, ambient light appeared to be a track wide constant - and when your car went into shadow it simply became darker. Whereas only the sunlight should have cut off - the ambient light should have been unchanged. It ends up looking 'wrong' or off - but you can't quite tell why, it also relies heavily on artist tweaking to look plausible.
Of course there is a *lot* more to it than that (occlusion, for one), but hopefully that gives a rough starting point.
The other thing I'll mention is good simulation of human perception of light: It is *critically* important for getting things to look right. Simple example; if we perceive something as being 4x brighter, it's actually about 22x brighter physically. If you don't simulate this, things look very wrong.
Getting lighting right is very, very hard. Get one element slightly wrong and you end up 'fudging' the output and trying to correct it - which just makes it subtly worse.
[edit]
Looks like I was was well beaten
Ohh wellGreat explanation lord pie.
Real men don't use HUD !
Just kidding but I would like a racing game taking cues from the trend of other genre regarding HUD. Make it non obtrusive. For example just fade in/out the position when the player overtakes or is being overtaken, fade in/out white and checkered flags, fade in/out the interval times when entering a new sector, display a red dot when in manual gearbox to show when you're near the red line (helpful when occasionally playing without sound), etc...
Obviously this would work for races and not Time Attack so you could still play with full/partial HUD.
Sysgen said:
vixlar said:
Real men don't use HUD !
Just kidding but I would like a racing game taking cues from the trend of other genre regarding HUD. Make it non obtrusive. For example just fade in/out the position when the player overtakes or is being overtaken, fade in/out white and checkered flags, fade in/out the interval times when entering a new sector, display a red dot when in manual gearbox to show when you're near the red line (helpful when occasionally playing without sound), etc...
Obviously this would work for races and not Time Attack so you could still play with full/partial HUD.
With all this talk of graphics this and models that, I'm more interested in what type of experience FM4 will offer in terms of racing.
I'm not saying that visuals aren't important (i'd be happy with just better lighting), but I feel that FM's racing experience, the vehicles' character, the sounds, a.i, physics, immersion etc.. are elements that derserve 100% focus.
I really stress immersion (as can be seen in the SHIFT thread) as being of utmost importance to me. It's no good that we have the best visuals, 1000 tracks and cars, multitude of upgrades and customization options if the actual form of racing isn't compelling,isn't enjoyable or isn't competitive.
Cars need to convey a sense of brutality especially in upgraded or race form. They need raw, in your face audio effects. They need to feature realistic driver animations. They need a cockpit that resembles a car that's been modified once it's been upgraded. Little things can go a long way in authenticity such as visible oil coolers, intercoolers, tyre markings, visble tyre width representation,decals on windows..etc
The A.I should be a little more aggressive, the races should be a tighter affair rather than the obligatory 1 ahead, group in the middle and a couple straggling behind. With 16 on the track now, it should enhance the occasion but it's still not gauranteed.
I want to feel that i'm involved in a race or series. I would love to see marshalls,pit crews,more spectators. I would love to see track debris, better, more realistic crash sequences, a better damage system where an engine can overheat or blow, tyre blowouts and loss of wheels, turbo and supercharger damage..etc
Damn, I'm a bitching bitch aren't I?
I'm not saying that visuals aren't important (i'd be happy with just better lighting), but I feel that FM's racing experience, the vehicles' character, the sounds, a.i, physics, immersion etc.. are elements that derserve 100% focus.
I really stress immersion (as can be seen in the SHIFT thread) as being of utmost importance to me. It's no good that we have the best visuals, 1000 tracks and cars, multitude of upgrades and customization options if the actual form of racing isn't compelling,isn't enjoyable or isn't competitive.
Cars need to convey a sense of brutality especially in upgraded or race form. They need raw, in your face audio effects. They need to feature realistic driver animations. They need a cockpit that resembles a car that's been modified once it's been upgraded. Little things can go a long way in authenticity such as visible oil coolers, intercoolers, tyre markings, visble tyre width representation,decals on windows..etc
The A.I should be a little more aggressive, the races should be a tighter affair rather than the obligatory 1 ahead, group in the middle and a couple straggling behind. With 16 on the track now, it should enhance the occasion but it's still not gauranteed.
I want to feel that i'm involved in a race or series. I would love to see marshalls,pit crews,more spectators. I would love to see track debris, better, more realistic crash sequences, a better damage system where an engine can overheat or blow, tyre blowouts and loss of wheels, turbo and supercharger damage..etc
Damn, I'm a bitching bitch aren't I?
shinobi602
Member
phosphor112 said:
Not expecting a "huge" jump. But I have no doubt it will look better. No doubt in my mind.
CaptainRizla
Member
Not gonna believe a single word until I rent it out. Che tarnished the franchise for me.
Same here. As great as this looks, Che ruined it for me also.
I hope I'm wrong though as GT5 was a total train wreck for me and was the reason I sold my PS3.
The trailer looks great but the F3 E3 trailer promised things that they didn't deliver on.
But the F3 UI was and is something great.
I hope I'm wrong though as GT5 was a total train wreck for me and was the reason I sold my PS3.
The trailer looks great but the F3 E3 trailer promised things that they didn't deliver on.
But the F3 UI was and is something great.
CaptainRizla
Member
Che was full of shit and promised things that weren't delivered. Flaws that were pointed out in videos and images were 'fixed in the final version'. Bullshit.
Fantasmo said:
I can't fathom why you're even willing to admit to be this weaksauce. Pathetic.
Anyway, nice news, can't wait to see more. I hope there's even less graphical unevenness in FM4. FM3 did a lot better than FM2 (Which was a mess), but compare Suzuka to Amalfi and it's like they came from two different games. Suzuka has a great sense of realistic art direction surrounding it, while Amalfi looks like it was lifted out of a cartoon - Kinda. Gameplay wise I have no worries, the sense of racing in FM3 was already great to me.
CaptainRizla
Member
bj00rn_ said:
Nice edit...
We have an opinion. Telling someone to "Grow up" isn't really something that goes in your favour.
F3, whilst a nice game, isn't the be-all and end-all of driving games.
I had fun with the limited edition I paid for but it certainly wasn't the flawless game certain community manager built it up to be. I suppose in that respect he did a great job. Just that I am going to make sure the game is something I want before putting my money down on it.
I am really sorry for upsetting your feelings
lol
Elfforkusu
Member
Sweet! Better be the full version of Sonoma and not the half-assed version NASCAR switched to because they're pansies.shinnn said:
If it is indeed Infineon, we'll probably get the two versions and the drag strips :
So, we have :
-Top Gear Test Track (1 track ribbon + maybe drag strips ribbons)
-Hockhenheimring (1 track ribbon + 1 drag strips ribbon)
-Alpine track (probably several track ribbons)
And we potentially have :
- Infineon Raceway (2 track ribbons + 3 drag strips ribbons)
- Indianapolis Motor Speedway (2 track ribbons)
- 24h Nurbürgring layout, it would be ridiculous not to have it now that they have the Nordschleife and the GP...
I'd kill to get the true old Hockenheimring but it wouldn't be possible considering this...
Fuck the FIA and Tilke for ruining such a great track.
So, we have :
-Top Gear Test Track (1 track ribbon + maybe drag strips ribbons)
-Hockhenheimring (1 track ribbon + 1 drag strips ribbon)
-Alpine track (probably several track ribbons)
And we potentially have :
- Infineon Raceway (2 track ribbons + 3 drag strips ribbons)
- Indianapolis Motor Speedway (2 track ribbons)
- 24h Nurbürgring layout, it would be ridiculous not to have it now that they have the Nordschleife and the GP...
I'd kill to get the true old Hockenheimring but it wouldn't be possible considering this...
Fuck the FIA and Tilke for ruining such a great track.
G Rom said:I'd kill to get the true old Hockenheimring but it wouldn't be possible considering this...
Fuck the FIA and Tilke for ruining such a great track.
Looks like maybe they could use it as a rally track?
G Rom said:I'd kill to get the true old Hockenheimring but it wouldn't be possible considering this...
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/3993256.jpg[IMG]
Fuck the FIA and Tilke for ruining such a great track. :([/QUOTE]
Wow, that's such a sad image :(
Are there any games you know of that do have it? I'm assuming someone's worked on it in rFactor or something...
Hockenheim currently has three ribbons, Ostkurs, Kleiner Kurs, and Grand-Prix Kurs...but if they REALLY want to make us happy, they'll put in the real ring....G Rom said:
Also, if the Alpine track is created by Turn10, there will be a lot of ribbons there...Positano had 5x2 ribbons (x2 for reverse), Sedona had 3x2 ribbons plus three drag strips, Benchmark had 7x2 ribbons +2 drag, Fujimi Kaido had 7x2 ribbons, Montserrat had 10x2 ribbons...
...essentially, Turn10 seems to be getting the most out of their environments...
I'd kill to get the true old Hockenheimring but it wouldn't be possible considering this...
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/3993256.jpg[IMG]
Fuck the FIA and Tilke for ruining such a great track. :([/QUOTE]
Depressing....
Speaking of old tracks, why has no racing game ever attempted to recreate the Nürburgring Südschleife?
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/055L3.jpg
Elfforkusu
Member
It's possible it was in Gran Prix Legends...?Shaneus said:Wow, that's such a sad image
Are there any games you know of that do have it? I'm assuming someone's worked on it in rFactor or something...
As far as destroyed old racetracks on the wishlist, I wish we had Riverside Raceway...
dat dogleg (and the diagram doesn't show it, but turn 9 had like 20 degree banking)
<- avatar too
Better yet, Bridgehampton...
I wasn't aware of the other ribbons for the current Hockenheim.
I'm with you on the Alpine track, we'll get tons of ribbons from it.
I think the main problem with old tracks is the lack of references. In most cases (old Hockenheim, Südschleife, A1 Ring, etc...), the whole track doesn't exist anymore so development teams can't go there to take high resolution photos, scan the whole thing, etc...
Another explanation might be licensing. Maybe the company managing Hockenheimring or the FOM doesn't allow the recreation of the old layout because it doesn't represent the current layout.
I would love a modern game with older non-butchered layouts of tracks though : Monza without chicanes, old Hockenheimring, pre-2010 Silverstone, old Spa, etc...
I'm with you on the Alpine track, we'll get tons of ribbons from it.
I think the main problem with old tracks is the lack of references. In most cases (old Hockenheim, Südschleife, A1 Ring, etc...), the whole track doesn't exist anymore so development teams can't go there to take high resolution photos, scan the whole thing, etc...
Another explanation might be licensing. Maybe the company managing Hockenheimring or the FOM doesn't allow the recreation of the old layout because it doesn't represent the current layout.
I would love a modern game with older non-butchered layouts of tracks though : Monza without chicanes, old Hockenheimring, pre-2010 Silverstone, old Spa, etc...
Captain Bluey
Member
At the end of the video, they use The Forza 3 logo ( the capital F with the three single lines, that they brougnt in for the first time in. Forza 3). I woukd have thougbt they would have updated tbe logo for Forza 4.
soujiro_seta
Member
Mizzou Gaming
Member
The thing I love about FORZA, well TURN 10 is their commitment to 60FPS racing. In my opinion framerate is the most important thing when it comes to the racing genre. Even in cockpit view FORZA 3 is silky smooth. I like GT5 but the horrid framerate in cockpit view forces me to completely abandon that view when playing.
gamebroker
Banned
Mizzou Gaming said:
are you under the impression that Forza 3 never dropped frames?
shinobi602
Member
eek5 said:
New and more efficient ways of using the hardware?
gamebroker said:
Forza 3 drops frames only in replay on certain tracks (Tsukuba for example) when the 8 cars are visible at the same time. In-game, I don't remember ever seeing a dropped frame and the game is always v-synced.
Mush said:
You can clearly see that this is the Mercedes stand of Hockenheimring :
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