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Tomb Raider - New Info and More Coming - 100,000 Facebook Likes For A Teaser

S

szaromir

Banned
Suairyu said:
The character? Most certainly. Well... it's complicated. Hated Lara in Anniversary. What a dumb prig of a bitch. Underworld was a bit more warmed up. I honestly think as a pure encapsulation of Lara, Legend was perfect. Flirty, funny, highly intelligent and able to present strength without needing to resort to emotional stone walling. Basically, acted like a believable woman in an unbelievable story.
Click to expand...
Too bad Legend kinda sucked. Claustrophobic maps, abundant QTEs and shooting.
 
H

hey_it's_that_dog

benevolent sexism
StuBurns said:
I do know what retcon means. It means retroactive continuity. I know what an archetype is too. I also know 'reboot' is a cheap way of saying we're going to do something new while playing off the success of an existing IP because it's cheaper to market, and that is my issue with it.

They could have created a new female protagonist, they decided not to, because not doing it is easier.
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You seem to have a strong negative feeling about the concept of a reboot, which I would argue is neither inherently good nor bad. This is why you're going to have trouble persuading people, if you even want to.
 
S

StuBurns

Banned
hey_it's_that_dog said:
You seem to have a strong negative feeling about the concept of a reboot, which I would argue is neither inherently good nor bad. This is why you're going to have trouble persuading people, if you even want to.
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I do. But I don't want to persuade anyone, I didn't even want to discuss it, just make a post venting my frustration.
 
S

Stallion Free

Cock Encumbered
Suairyu said:
Also Legend was the most non-Tomb Raider mainline game in the series to date, yet it's what revitalised the series. It took the impression and ideas that made the original games so appealing all those years ago but reinterpreted them into a streamlined, speed-run experience. My first ever 1000/1000 Gamerscore game.

Guardian Of Light also did similar. Despite being nothing like a Tomb Raider game, it still felt like a Tomb Raider game.

Just like how this new character has a new background but will almost certainly feel like the Lara we know and love.
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Oh I was just kidding. CD can do whatever they want with Lara Croft so long as the game has that Tomb Raider feel like you said.
 
F

Forkball

Member
I'm still a bit surprised they made her knockers so big since this was supposed to be a darkier, grittier, and more serious reboot.
 
M

mollipen

Member
At the same time, I don't know that I like the idea that "smaller breasts = more serious". Yes, absolutely, don't make them ridiculously large or anything, but how serious of a character she is will come from what they do with her. When your character's "character" comes from the fact that they have huge hooters *coughDOAcough*, that's a problem. Having a serious and better-written Lara who also happens to have more than an A-cup, there's nothing at all wrong with that.
 
S

Salaadin

Member
Forkball said:
I'm still a bit surprised they made her knockers so big since this was supposed to be a darkier, grittier, and more serious reboot.
Click to expand...

Ill never understand how or why "serious" equals "small boobs". Sometimes it feels like theres a small "anti breasts" movement going on or something.

She doesnt look all that busty in the screens anyway..at least not as much as old Lara.
 
Ponti

Ponti

Member
shidoshi said:
At the same time, I don't know that I like the idea that "smaller breasts = more serious". Yes, absolutely, don't make them ridiculously large or anything, but how serious of a character she is will come from what they do with her. When your character's "character" comes from the fact that they have huge hooters *coughDOAcough*, that's a problem. Having a serious and better-writer Lara who also happens to have more than an A-cup, there's nothing at all wrong with that.
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It's a shame some folk don't look past the massive hooters. I know some people that have never touched any TR games an just roll their eyes at it. "Oh her with the huge tits. Whatever. Teenage boy fantasy crap." Usually the same people that enjoy Uncharted too, so disappointing.
 
J

jbttwin

Member
StuBurns said:
I do. But I don't want to persuade anyone, I didn't even want to discuss it, just make a post venting my frustration.
Click to expand...

Again, you don't have to play the game. You know that, right?
 
S

Suairyu

Banned
szaromir said:
Too bad Legend kinda sucked. Claustrophobic maps, abundant QTEs and shooting.
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Claustrophobic? Well, linear, yes. But the non-linear nature of the original Tomb Raider was far more claustrophobic.

Here's the thing: Legend took that Tomb Raider essence and supplanted it onto the speedrun action game. For me, that worked. It felt like Tomb Raider, felt like exploration and summer fun adventure even if by design it quite obviously wasn't. It was an absolute triumph. I'd never call it a Great, but it did what it did and I loved every moment.
 
J

jbttwin

Member
StuBurns said:
Sorry I misunderstood, please reiterate for me.
Click to expand...

You're going on the defensive about how this game should be called TR or feature Lara Croft when full fledged reboots are common these days. It seemed to me like you had no intention to play this game, but I guess I was wrong.
 
S

StuBurns

Banned
jbttwin said:
You're going on the defensive about how this game should be called TR or feature Lara Croft when full fledged reboots are common these days. It seemed to me like you had no intention to play this game, but I guess I was wrong.
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I am absolutely buying this game day one, unless something unexpected happens like it becomes 3DS exclusive or something else bizarre.

I wouldn't post if I didn't care about the game.
 
I

Inkwell

Banned
I'm really excited for this . As long as the puzzle solving and platforming remain, everything else sounds awesome. I only dabbled in the first game, but became a fan after playing Anniversary. After the 3 newest games, I think it's a good idea to try something new. I love the new Lara design, and I think the horror aspects could be interesting.

By the way, StuBurns is technically right. Reboots are considered to be retcons. I don't know how much of Lara's history is actually being changed, but I don't think it matters. The problem occurring here is that the term "reboot" is much more descriptive and informative, and the term retcon seems to carry some negativity with it. People typically think of "retcon" when something is changed within a single continuity. I think the elevator rooms going from Portal to Portal 2 count, but aren't that important. A better example would be actively changing a character's past in order to fit in a new plot line, or to simply fix a plot hole. I think this example from Wikipedia illustrates what most people think of when they hear the term retcon:
J. R. R. Tolkien in The Hobbit described the circumstances in which Bilbo Baggins won a magic ring from Gollum. However, by the time he wrote the sequel, The Lord of the Rings, his concept of the ring's nature had changed, at odds with the previous depiction. To explain this discrepancy, Tolkien retold this incident in the new work, explaining the original version as a lie inspired by the malevolent influence of the ring. However, later editions of The Hobbit incorporated the revised version of the story.
Click to expand...
 
J

jbttwin

Member
^ Did you get PSM already? I didn't think subscribers got it till Monday.

Inkwell said:
I'm really excited for this . As long as the puzzle solving and platforming remain, everything else sounds awesome. I only dabbled in the first game, but became a fan after playing Anniversary. After the 3 newest games, I think it's a good idea to try something new. I love the new Lara design, and I think the horror aspects could be interesting.
Click to expand...

They've pretty much changed her entire past, but instead of writing it down like they did with L/A/U they're making us experience it. It doesn't bother me, at all.
 
S

Salaadin

Member
Loudninja said:
PSM has info as well but I am sure alot of its in the OP already.
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If you have the issue, its your duty to spot check the article against the OP and post anything new. Scurry on now dont come back until youre finished :)
 
Ponti

Ponti

Member
jbttwin said:
They've pretty much changed her entire past, but instead of writing it down like they did with L/A/U they're making us experience it. It doesn't bother me, at all.
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Hopefully the fact that we're playing through it now will finally cement what Lara's past actually was. It's been changed so many times I've lost track of what it's supposed to be atm.
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
Ponti said:
Hopefully the fact that we're playing through it now will finally cement what Lara's past actually was. It's been changed so many times I've lost track of what it's supposed to be atm.
Click to expand...

This really has to cement it. With this timeline it's Lara's first adventure. So there really isn't anything for them to rewind to.
 
L

Loudninja

Member
PSM info:
-Combat in this reboot wont glorify killing, this a younger and more fragile Lara,however,realizes that sometimes either kill or be killed.

-Jumps are far more dynamic, in this game you can jump and sort of aim in the right direction, and end up getting there or Change it on the fly a little and shell twist and turn in midair and causally grab stuff off to the side. Its more feels more like AC than pass TR games.

-Everything you see on the island actually exist in the game world, in short if you see it you can access it.

-There will be an element of choice to the experience, as players will be giving multiple ways to approach and obstacle.

-Instant mode is a mode where interactive elements are highlighted this will help the player get though the early portion of the game, but over time you will learn to properly see you surroundings n without it.

-On the PS3 version you use the shoulder button's to climb


Edit:added a little more
 
I

ilikeme

Member
Loudninja said:
Jumps are far more dynamic, in this game you can jump and sort of aim in the right direction, and end up getting there or Change it on the fly a little and shell twist and turn in midair and causally grab stuff off to the side. Its more feels more like AC than pass TR games.
Click to expand...

Hmm. Well I guess original TR1 will always be there to comfort me but.. Platforming with a character that turns in the air and sticks to walls, hmm?

Although I guess it can work in its own way for the better of the game but generally this just bugs me. I want it to be hard and have to plan the jumps carefully but I guess they're not going that way.

Will buy anyway, so much of this game sounds exciting so it'll probably be a blast anyway. More of a 'blast' I guess than a slower, more careful Lara would be. I hope the PAIN aspect gives the platforming more of a RISK feeling to it.
 
J

jbttwin

Member
ilikeme said:
Hmm. Well I guess original TR1 will always be there to comfort me but.. Platforming with a character that turns in the air and sticks to walls, hmm?

Although I guess it can work in its own way for the better of the game but generally this just bugs me. I want it to be hard and have to plan the jumps carefully but I guess they're not going that way.

Will buy anyway, so much of this game sounds exciting so it'll probably be a blast anyway. More of a 'blast' I guess than a slower, more careful Lara would be. I hope the PAIN aspect gives the platforming more of a RISK feeling to it.
Click to expand...

The classic TR's had mid air turns. Crystal's kinda just bringing it back because it was in high demand.
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
ilikeme said:
Hmm. Well I guess original TR1 will always be there to comfort me but.. Platforming with a character that turns in the air and sticks to walls, hmm?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't worry about the platforming. This is from the preview that was posted in OP

First we have to do some jumping. This time our heroine won't just "stick" magically to the closest ledge, but we'll have to maneuver while she's jumping. Althought it may seem more complicated than in previous installments, this will serve us well to modify our trajectory mid-jump to reach other zones.
Click to expand...
 
I

ilikeme

Member
jbttwin said:
The classic TR's had mid air turns. Crystal's kinda just bringing it back because it was in high demand.
Click to expand...
They did? Oh... wow what. How did that work?

Damn, I guess I need to replay the game and not talk from a vague memory from.. well I guess last time I played it was about 8 years ago so that explains that.

Oh and good to hear that she's not the kind of sticks-to-walls character I feared. Thanks for pointing that out! Just makes the game sound more and more exciting.
 
G

Grisby

Member
Loudninja said:
PSM info:
-Combat in this reboot wont glorify killing, this a younger and more fragile Lara,however,realizes that sometimes either kill or be killed.

-Jumps are far more dynamic, in this game you can jump and sort of aim in the right direction, and end up getting there or Change it on the fly a little and shell twist and turn in midair and causally grab stuff off to the side. Its more feels more like AC than pass TR games.

-Everything you see on the island actually exist in the game world, in short if you see it you can access it.

-There will be an element of choice to the experience, as players will be giving multiple ways to approach and obstacle.

Hmm I am not sure if anything is new or not.
Click to expand...

Snap. That all sounds super hot. Thanks for the info.
 
S

Satch

Banned
I wish this game was out, like, yesterday. I want to play it so badly. I hope they have something to show at E3. Fingers crossed!
 
S

Salaadin

Member
Loudninja said:
PSM info:
-Combat in this reboot wont glorify killing, this a younger and more fragile Lara,however,realizes that sometimes either kill or be killed.

-Jumps are far more dynamic, in this game you can jump and sort of aim in the right direction, and end up getting there or Change it on the fly a little and shell twist and turn in midair and causally grab stuff off to the side. Its more feels more like AC than pass TR games.

-Everything you see on the island actually exist in the game world, in short if you see it you can access it.

-There will be an element of choice to the experience, as players will be giving multiple ways to approach and obstacle.

Hmm I am not sure if anything is new or not.
Click to expand...

Good stuff. Thanks :)
 
J

jbttwin

Member
ilikeme said:
They did? Oh... wow what. How did that work?

Damn, I guess I need to replay the game and not talk from a vague memory from.. well I guess last time I played it was about 8 years ago so that explains that.

Oh and good to hear that she's not the kind of sticks-to-walls character I feared. Thanks for pointing that out! Just makes the game sound more and more exciting.
Click to expand...

It was kind of a mid air roll, while this one is a steering kind of move, but they're both meant to control her movements while jumping.

EDIT: Actually you could change her directions while running in the earlier games. It was a slight change but yeah you could do it
 
E

Ellis Kim

Banned
StuBurns said:
I don't care what semantics you use, 'reboot' just seems like a way of saying we're creatively bankrupt and are going to rape the corpse of whatever IP we own.

It's Lara Croft, that character has a defined story, changing it retroactively is a retcon.
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MGS3 retconned established dates, times, and ages of characters. Lara's been altered in tone (from "tee-hee oh you," to "fuck you my mom's dead"), story depth (from shallow premises and excuses for exploration, to emotionally driven acts of momentum), and gameplay. And that's just the changes from Crystal Dynamics's first foray into the Lara mythos. There's a fundamental difference between retcon (which assumes connecting new history with established present), versus a franchise reboot, as I don't see them trying, or wanting, to connect the old Lara games, let alone CD's trilogy of titles, with this new title.
 
J

jbttwin

Member
I agree. They've stressed the fact that this is full on franchise reboot rather than a "retelling" of sorts.

P.S. When someone get's PSM (or if you already have it), people at the TRF are going crazy for pictures (not asking for them to be posted here or anything).
 
N

NotTheGuyYouKill

Member
Loudninja said:
PSM info:
-Combat in this reboot wont glorify killing, this a younger and more fragile Lara,however,realizes that sometimes either kill or be killed.

-Jumps are far more dynamic, in this game you can jump and sort of aim in the right direction, and end up getting there or Change it on the fly a little and shell twist and turn in midair and causally grab stuff off to the side. Its more feels more like AC than pass TR games.

-Everything you see on the island actually exist in the game world, in short if you see it you can access it.

-There will be an element of choice to the experience, as players will be giving multiple ways to approach and obstacle.

-Instant mode is a mode where interactive elements are highlighted this will help the player get though the early portion of the game, but over time you will learn to properly see you surroundings n without it.

-On the PS3 version you use the shoulder button's to climb


Edit:added a little more
Click to expand...

Sounds awesome. I am really digging the vibe of this game... survival, horror, adventure, mystery, it sounds great. Love fiction like this.
 
R

robm_2007

Neo Member
I'm very excited for this reboot :D

I hope that they can make a game that not only pleases the TR fans, but the general gaming community (without making it a "mainstream" game.)

I really love the new render that is appearing on many magazines, it would make for a great game cover :p
 
G

george_us

Member
Ponti said:
It's a shame some folk don't look past the massive hooters. I know some people that have never touched any TR games an just roll their eyes at it. "Oh her with the huge tits. Whatever. Teenage boy fantasy crap." Usually the same people that enjoy Uncharted too, so disappointing.
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Good God her breasts aren't even that big and unrealistic. There are plenty of athletic women who also happen to have large breasts.
 
M

Mr_Zombie

Member
george_us said:
Good God her breasts aren't even that big and unrealistic. There are plenty of athletic women who also happen to have large breasts.
Click to expand...

Not in Crystal Dynamics' Tomb Raider games, but in the PSX ones, good god, she looks like a mutant with her huge breasts and thin waist (especially when we're talking about CG images). And that Lara is the most popular one - she was used in various ads, clips, on Times' cover etc. I think hardly anyone who isn't interested in Tomb Raider series know about Lara's recent, more human, look. And it's a shame :(
 
Z

Zen

Banned
StuBurns said:
Batman Begins doesn't retroactively alter the continuity of Batman as far as I'm aware, and considering Nolan's two Batman movies are the only Batman material I even vaguely care about it'd be hard for me to know or care if it did.

Retcon has a specific meaning, and this looks to be an example of doing it.

At this point, if it's true they're completely changing the background and personality of the character, the gameplay formula, why is this called Tomb Raider? Or more specifically why is she Lara Croft? Of course the reason is because it's a brand, but I personally don't think that's a very legitimate reason creatively.

Certainly not, no.
Click to expand...


It seems evocative of Lara Croft and Tomb Raider in every way that matters, so oh well. Do we really give a shit about her parents being alive, or that she worked at a pub before going on this trip? I mean, really?

And your example of Batman Begins is flawed because that 'retroactively' changed so much about Batmans cannon history, more than the new Tomb Raider seems to, even though Begins isn't in fact retconning anything because it's not rewriting the timeline of 'Batman', merely writing the history of the movie universe Batman.

All that aside, what you're really saying is that you dislike the fact that this reboot is altering any details about the character; just be prepared to hear that most people are totally fine with them making changes, and that the changes they are making are such incidental flavorings that they don't matter that much to them.

The charges of creative bankruptcy is silly. Sometimes the most creative thing you can do is to wipe the slate clean and rebuild the character, following key components to what made them engaging in the fist place. The Tomb Raider franchise, pre this game, especially is an example of this.

There's no inherent creative bankruptcy from going back to square 1 and re-imagining your universe. You're able to apply creativity in ways that you just couldn't do before due to the pre established style, fiction, and expectations of the old method of doing things.
 
J

jbttwin

Member
Zen said:
It seems evocative of Lara Croft and Tomb Raider in every way that matters, so oh well. Do we really give a shit about her parents being alive, or that she worked at a pub before going on this trip? I mean, really?

And your example of Batman Begins is flawed because that 'retroactively' changed so much about Batmans cannon history, more than the new Tomb Raider seems to, even though Begins isn't in fact retconning anything because it's not rewriting the timeline of 'Batman', merely writing the history of the movie universe Batman.

All that aside, what you're really saying is that you dislike the fact that this reboot is altering any details about the character; just be prepared to hear that most people are totally fine with them making changes, and that the changes they are making are such incidental flavorings that they don't matter that much to them.

The charges of creative bankruptcy is silly. Sometimes the most creative thing you can do is to wipe the slate clean and rebuild the character, following key components to what made them engaging in the fist place. The Tomb Raider franchise, pre this game, especially is an example of this.

There's no inherent creative bankruptcy from going back to square 1 and re-imagining your universe. You're able to apply creativity in ways that you just couldn't do before due to the pre established style, fiction, and expectations of the old method of doing things.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Lara, as she was in Crystal's former games, was lame. Her character needed changing, highly. And she was awesome in Core's games but had no personality or character development, which wouldn't work very well today. Not only did they need to change her appearance and bio, the character needed rebooted alltogether.
 
L

Larson Conway

Member
For a while my passion and excitement for this game died out because of particular reasons, but the latest OPM scans have somehow restored my faith in it. The more I see of this game, the more I feel like being the Tomb Raider fanboy that I am again.
 
J

jbttwin

Member
German magazine scans have been up on TRF for a while now. A few new screenshots. Mostly close ups of Lara, and by god does she look good.

The fanboy in me is coming back out fersure
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
CD talked some about the platforming in the new issue of Edge

The developers appear to be aiming for a sweet spot somewhere between the rigid platforming of the previous Tomb Raider games, and the carefree elegance of Assassin's Creed. There's no lock-on sucking you automatically toward ledges, while aftertouch air-control let's you course-correct on the fly. Lara may be young and inexperienced, but she can still jump from spars of spindly rock and swing from flagpoles. As with the puzzles back in the den, then, it's got a great Tomb Raider feel, but it's richer and more dynamic.

"The player has the feel the characters as they're moving, and various games do this in their own ways," says Gallagher, after admitting there's been a lot of discussion as to what modern traversal should feel like. "Assassin's Creed looks good, but for my money, when i'm moving the sticks I want to feel like i'm moving the character as much as possible. With our demo, you're playing the character every moment. There aren't a lot of smoke and mirrors - there aren't magical jumps that happen, and the animation looks great. You have control the whole time, and we hope that makes you feel closer to the character. If you miss a jump, that's something you did rather than something the engine did. There has to be a feeling of threat underpinning everything. You don't want traversal to be frustrating, but if you don't feel that threat coming to fruition, you're not delivering survival."
Click to expand...
 
J

jbttwin

Member
Some points from PSN AUS. I thought I already posted this earlier but I guess I didn't

*a symbol near her health bar (???)
*possible experience bar
*a stalker with an axe handled buzz saw blade
*a creature spitting out fire
*and a tiny spring up a wall when grabbing the first ledge while on the surface...

No scans yet, I think they're gonna get put up soon though..

and whoa. That track is fucking awesome.
 
R

Rei_Toei

Fclvat sbe Pnanqn, ru?
Last Tomb Raider I've played was TR2. I wouldn't be able to tell how many games have been released since. 3? 7? But this looks like it's shaping up to pull the series out of a rut. An open-world island, realistic-looking Lara - sounds and looks great.
 
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