Al-ibn Kermit
Junior Member
Jamesfrom818 said:
Isn't that basically what a PhD is?
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The Masters Degree as the new Bachelors Degree
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Isn't that basically what a PhD is?
Al-ibn Kermit
Junior Member
Spokker said:
I know what an apprenticeship is, I'm saying that being a PhD student is kind of similar since you also get to learn and practice real skills rather than just take a bunch of classes like an undergrad does.
bigboss370
Member
good thing its not needed for accounting.
Glad I got my MBA when it still meant something.
Can't speak on other masteral degrees, but a lot of schools are now fast-tracking MBA programs, and requirements are less strict. Some programs don't even require work experience anymore which I think is kind of dumb. I can't imagine being able to participate in any sort of class discussion without anything to draw from.
Can't speak on other masteral degrees, but a lot of schools are now fast-tracking MBA programs, and requirements are less strict. Some programs don't even require work experience anymore which I think is kind of dumb. I can't imagine being able to participate in any sort of class discussion without anything to draw from.
i've been seeing a whole lot more jobs listings listing a masters degree as a requirement in quite a few different areas.
i know plenty of people who have a bachelors doing nothing more than secretarial work.
though i think the having a degree from a well-known university is actually becoming less important at least when it comes to bachelors degrees. a lot of companies seem to be migrating towards being more reasonable about hiring than relying on what used to be good indicators. it's not just about being smart or having that degree, but being effective in actual job performance.
i know plenty of people who have a bachelors doing nothing more than secretarial work.
though i think the having a degree from a well-known university is actually becoming less important at least when it comes to bachelors degrees. a lot of companies seem to be migrating towards being more reasonable about hiring than relying on what used to be good indicators. it's not just about being smart or having that degree, but being effective in actual job performance.
electricshake
Member
I'm totally bricking it about graduating - I have no idea whether to pursue a PhD or get a job. I'm worried if I go straight into employment I won't go back for a PhD and from what I've heard, a PhD is required to reach the top levels in my field (molecular biology/parasitology). I've still got 2 years before I graduate - I'm currently on a year long placement before I do my Honours year so I'll graduate with an MSci instead of a BSc. But on the other hand I'll be 27 by the time I graduate - I did an LLB after I left school but I hated it so I went back to uni after I graduated. If I do a PhD I'll be 30 or 31 by the time I get a 'real' job so I'm worried that'll look bad. Fuuuuuuuuck.
electricshake said:
My recommendation would be either two things:
1) Get a job for about two or three years. This will help you get experience and then look for schools that allow you to do the PhD at a part time basis or your employers can sponsor you to go to school. That is what my university allows. If you do a PhD at the same institution it'll be a minimum of +5 years with all the exams or some other place it'll be 6 years. Then don't forget Post-Doc things that you can/have to do.
2) Go straight into a Master/PhD (technically you will finish your Masters *again) during your PhD). Then try to get a great grant that will fund you unless the TA/GA position pays a lot.
Another situation is that you could, get a job during the last few years and do your writing then instead of having to do post-doc work. I hope this helps.
I have a PhD in Molecular Biology.electricshake said:
If you want any kind of actual Research or Academic job you need a PhD.
Your future career opportunities will be severely limited without that PhD.
In fact I can't really recommend trying for a top level career in any science without a PhD degree. It really is expected in any but the most junior jobs. And forget about climbing the ladder without having to go back for that degree at some point.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Have anyone seen this TED?: Sir Ken Robinson: Do schools kill creativity?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY
What an awesome lecture. It's from 2007 but he hits on many problems (and some solutions) in this thread!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY
What an awesome lecture. It's from 2007 but he hits on many problems (and some solutions) in this thread!
Dreams-Visions
Member
by then, Burger King will be run exclusively via advanced computer systems and robots.The Lamp said:
So yes, they probably will.
Al-ibn Kermit
Junior Member
Locke_211 said:
Unfortunately Masters degrees tend to be awarded to people who drop out of PhD programs. How much a Masters helps you varies depending on your field. Generally the careers where the terminal point of education is a Masters are careers that aren't focused on research like business/teaching/etc.
If you're in a sciences field though, I've hears a Masters doesn't really help you much more than a Bachelors because employers in those fields want somebody who has research experience. For the sciences, generally the jobs either only require a Bachelors (ie: civil engineering/comp sci) or they require a PhD if you're going for a research position. I don't really recall any examples that specifically need a Masters.
Cygnus X-1
Member
Stumpokapow said:Why not do it just because learning is good?
Do you know how hard is to get a M.S.?
Diprosalic
Banned
this gets out of hand. here you need a master to be a kindergarten teacher.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
AiTM said:
That's because the current educational system instills feelings of hopelessness and negativity.
This type of thing is a clear example of how the educational system in the United States is severely flawed and, most likely, beyond the point of fixing.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
Freyjadour said:
This. A Master's might help you land a job, but once you have one they don't matter a lot.
electricshake
Member
DennisK4 said:
Yeh that's what I've been told by the people who I work with. It was more when I should do it - as soon as I graduate (2013) or get a job for a year or two before looking. If I do the former, I'm worried that I'll be in my early thirties without ever having had an actual science job, and what employers will think of that; if I do the latter, I'm worried that once I've started working I'll struggle with the transition from job to PhD. If that makes sense. Also I'm in the UK if that makes a difference.
Teknoman said:
This is what I ended up majoring in at my college as well.
Unfortunately, my college used to be highly prestigious but have fallen off in the last few years. And what I majored in was not specific enough (I really wished I had majored in accounting or finance).
I know I'm going to go back and get a master's degree in accounting or finance soon.
On the other hand, my sister graduated in May with a degree in biology and has already gotten a job working on a research project at a college. She also had to do a lot of her final project for college on her own and ended up with 2 years of experience in the area that the position hired for.
So U.S. educational system does work, it's just badly broken and you almost have to learn on your own to get anything out of it.
What's awful about colleges is everything else not having to do with getting the education (sports teams, partying, the town, etc.). Colleges can't really control that or force the students to not party or not waste their time watching sports games. It's pretty much high school but the students are of U.S. drinking age.
Al-ibn Kermit
Junior Member
bangai-o said:
What you're saying is that k-12 teachers have to understand child/teenager psychology well enough to get those kids enthusiastic about learning. That's a legitimate difference that makes me think most college professors shouldn't be teaching kids. Honestly though, it seems like a large focus of k-12 education is just that, getting you interested in learning and making you sociable in the real world.
A college professor on the other hand simply teaches the material. They don't care if you are being all that you can be, they just explain the material as well as they can with the expectation that their students are adults who are interested in the class and are trying to learn the material. They usually are very accommodating as far explaining concepts in a style that you can understand, my high school teachers on the other hand mostly just put their lesson plan on an overhead and followed it like a script.
THIS JUST IN A YEAR AGO:
The Disposable Academic: Why doing a PhD is often a waste of time
I'm going in to my 4th year of undergrad for a BS in Biology, planning on going to Grad school in Molecular Biology. I used to think I wouldn't care about the money so long as I was helping cure something, anything. But having worked on such things for the past three years, I'm not sure if its really worth it. Spend a large majority of my life dedicated to like...one pathway slightly implicated in a disease and hopefully get a decent professorship, or be an accountant and make bank right out of the gate. Oh well.
The Disposable Academic: Why doing a PhD is often a waste of time
I'm going in to my 4th year of undergrad for a BS in Biology, planning on going to Grad school in Molecular Biology. I used to think I wouldn't care about the money so long as I was helping cure something, anything. But having worked on such things for the past three years, I'm not sure if its really worth it. Spend a large majority of my life dedicated to like...one pathway slightly implicated in a disease and hopefully get a decent professorship, or be an accountant and make bank right out of the gate. Oh well.
captmorgan
Banned
Jamesfrom818 said:
When did it stop?
I have 3 journeyman tickets in which I was apprenticesed each time I`m fairly sure its a form of education still. As well I am fully confident with my welding, machinist and millwright ticket I could get a job anywhere I choose to go. (I was recently offered work in Australia running a gas plant, New Zealand working in oil transportation and oddly enough Madagascar to be a maintenance coordinator in a cobalt refinery
Fun Fact: Not only was my school, textbooks and parking paid for by my employer But my full wage as well. Being paid 60 dollars an hour to attend classes is a pretty big motivator.
The Orange
Member
They are both equally useless in real life.
Zapages said:
Last week, I met up with a supervisor from previous job. His wife is a middle school teacher. She's the only teacher in the entire school without a Master's. We both laughed at the absurdity of it all. I mean, what next? You'll need a PhD to teach high school? It's absolutely ridiculous. It would be a different story if the quality of our education was improving. But it's not.
People are spending more time and money for positions they're not guaranteed to obtain. They're not necessarily learning anything and it's not as if the quality of the service they want to provide is getting any better too.
captmorgan said:
Wow.
The idea of getting into a trade has been in the back of mind for months now. Both my parents and my GF's think it's a great idea. Our fathers have PhDs. My dad has one in Poli Sci and my GF's dad's in English. He's a corporate lawyer while my father is the founder and CEO of a non-profit higher education advocacy group. They're both well educated and very successful. I'm glad I have their support.
BruiserBear
Banned
That's the sad reality. The last thing people need three days is more debt.-Pyromaniac- said:
-PXG- said:
agreed... Most schools are now teaching towards an exam be it SATs, ACTs MCATs, GREs, HSPA, etc.. Are standardized exams the problem with this nation and the world? All students are not great at them.
I think during my Master courses, about 3 or 4 classes were where I actually learned a thing or two that was interesting. These classed helped me because I could actually apply what I learned to my field of research/studies. The rest of the classes were rote memorization with little applications in real life. :\
ThisWreckage
Banned
It's pointless to try to become a professor in most fields. Many people are taking adjunct positions and praying that someone retires. I know at least five people that want to be professors.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Zapages said:
Not only that, if you don't have tenure, it is becoming MUCH more common for public schools to hire teachers without Masters degrees over teachers who have them because of the cuts to funding.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yup, from what I know engineering PhDs (and even Masters) are similar. The grad students I work with take maybe one seminar class a semester and spend the rest of their time working 8 hours a day in the lab.Zzoram said:
Gorgon
Member
aswedc said:
That's because not everyone on GAF is from the US and, e.g. in Europe no one could care a fuck less what school you went to in general since public colledge/univ are the best and everyone comes from there for the most part.
PdotMichael said:
Same in Portugal. There weren't even bachelors except at politechnic schools. Now with the Bolonha Treaty we do have the equivalent to a Bachelors in Univ.
Freyjadour said:
If you're working for the State in many countries in Europe it does matter, since you'll have your access to certain positions cut for lack of an higher degree.
DennisK4 said:
You mind if I ask a question? Sorry for beying out of topic but the Science thread is dead in the water. I need a good general book on Genomics. I need something that is the equivalent to, say, Brock Biology of Microorganisms, something that is comprehensive and useful for a PhD in that field as a basic background reference but which is still acessible and clear.
Any suggestions?
back on topic. I don't know about the US, but as far as Europe in general goes, a Masters is pretty much the basic you need for any decent career in most areas except for business stuff and the likes. If you have only the bachelors your career path is cut right from the start and you'll just be doing shit job. It has been like that for decades.
electricshake said:
The only reason you would struggle is if you get too used to working only 40 hours a week and get used to having money (due to mortgage etc).
A PhD is just a research job with constant overtime and terrible pay, but you get access to University laboratories and have more flexibility over what research you do.
The_Technomancer said:
Biology is a bit different. We have to take about 2 to 3 classes with/without lab and seminar per semester for about 3 to 4 years. Then you have to take 2 exams (Written and Candidacy) to officially become a PhD student. PhD takes about 5 to 7 years for Biology, Biochemisty, or Chemistry at my University. :\
Gorgon said:
Its more of a Master's Level Book, but it explains Molecular Biology and Genetics.
Genes X: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0763766321/?tag=neogaf0e-20
EDIT: Sorry for DP
Gorgon
Member
Zzoram said:
Depends on where you are. In Portugal and Finland certainly it's not like that.
Rad- said:
Yes, maybe you're right. Unless you're working for the State from my knowledge. You'll start at a much lower position than Masters and you'll never get acess to higher positions. May be different in other countries. But then again, most engineers don't work for the State except for the Computer Engineering ones.
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