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Poor Vita performance dragging down Sony's entire gaming unit

W

witchedwiz

Member
Delusibeta said:
61Q3YCkFcSL._SL500_AA300_.jpg


?
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i was under the impression that they're doing this because psvita development isn't so outrageously different from ps2 (apart from EE).. is that false?
that being said...
devil survivor port on 3ds
devil survivor 2 on nds
smt iv on 3ds (canon smt....)

in the meanwhile
p2:ep for psp
vita gets p4:g

not THAT different, but a mainline smt on 3ds offsets the balance greatly... devil survivor in vita would be glorious!
 
P

PopcornMegaphone

Banned
Green Slime said:
Investors would NOT rejoice, because it would mean that Sony just flushed millions of dollars down the toilet on a product that did nothing but tarnish the PlayStation name even more.
Click to expand...

I think investors already realize Sony has flushed millions down the drain on Vita. It's not like its some big secret Vita's performance is horrible.

Third parties, overall, don't give a shit about Vita, but several key third party developers do, including the likes of Falcom, Nippon Ichi, Gust, and others. Yes, they're small developers overall, but they've always been VERY strong PlayStation supporters, and burning them like that could cause them to jump ship to Nintendo and/or Microsoft.

It's a delicate situation that Sony has placed themselves in. I really don't think killing off the Vita is the right move, and I don't even think it's possible.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't think it's a big of a deal as you're making it out to be. If Sony releases a successful platform devs will be there.
 
Metallix87

Metallix87

Member
Daydream Sequence said:
If people in the west already dont give a damn about the 3DS at 170 dollars, why are they going to give a damn about the 3DS XL at 200? For a Mario game that's getting mediocre reviews?
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter if it's getting mediocre reviews. It's a 2-D Mario game. It's guaranteed to drive hardware sales.

As for the XL, people like choices, and having more models and colors available will drive sales. It doesn't matter that the XL is more expensive.
 
L

Loghorn150

Banned
Green Slime said:
Investors would NOT rejoice, because it would mean that Sony just flushed millions of dollars down the toilet on a product that did nothing but tarnish the PlayStation name even more.

Third parties, overall, don't give a shit about Vita, but several key third party developers do, including the likes of Falcom, Nippon Ichi, Gust, and others. Yes, they're small developers overall, but they've always been VERY strong PlayStation supporters, and burning them like that could cause them to jump ship to Nintendo and/or Microsoft.

It's a delicate situation that Sony has placed themselves in. I really don't think killing off the Vita is the right move, and I don't even think it's possible.
Click to expand...

I agree. Sony shouldn't have even made the handheld in the first place. Now they're stuck between a rock & a hard place which they can't get out of.

It's game over for Sony, either way.
 
Metallix87

Metallix87

Member
PopcornMegaphone said:
I think investors already realize Sony has flushed millions down the drain on Vita. It's not like its some big secret Vita's performance is horrible.
Click to expand...

It's not a secret, but if Sony just abandons the system, it'll be seen as both a lack of leadership and a sign of weakness. Investors WILL be furious and worried, no doubt.

PopcornMegaphone said:
Yeah, I don't think it's a big of a deal as you're making it out to be. If Sony releases a successful platform devs will be there.
Click to expand...

Just like with Nintendo, yes? That sure turned out swell for the Wii...
 
J

jman2050

Member
commish said:
If you try to sell consumers something they can get elsewhere, or already have, then you're going to fail.
Click to expand...

This is true, which is why Nintendo can get away with selling a portable handheld even now while Sony can't.

Again, from a business standpoint, the Vita never should have been made. No real upside in the endeavor.
 
D

Daydream Sequence

Banned
lunchwithyuzo said:
lol. See you September 13th, I'll be serving crow.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I get that Nintendo fanboys like to believe this. They also believed the 3DS would sell incredibly well at 250. And then they believed it would sell incredibly well at 170. It hasn't. Mario sells systems, but anyone that thinks NSMB2 is going to do for the 3DS what the original did for the DS isn't paying attention.
 
T

tuffy

Member
PopcornMegaphone said:
I think investors already realize Sony has flushed millions down the drain on Vita. It's not like its some big secret Vita's performance is horrible.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Those costs are sunk, so it doesn't make sense to keep throwing money at the platform only because they've put a lot of money into it already, in the hopes that it might eventually pay off later. If the platform doesn't get on a profitable trajectory, it makes sense to quietly pull the plug and allocate those resources elsewhere.
 
Metallix87

Metallix87

Member
Daydream Sequence said:
Yeah, I get that Nintendo fanboys like to believe this. They also believed the 3DS would sell incredibly well at 250. And then they believed it would sell incredibly well at 170. It hasn't. Mario sells systems, but anyone that thinks NSMB2 is going to do for the 3DS what the original did for the DS isn't paying attention.
Click to expand...

So how do you like your crow prepared? Fried or baked?
 
P

PopcornMegaphone

Banned
Green Slime said:
It's not a secret, but if Sony just abandons the system, it'll be seen as both a lack of leadership and a sign of weakness. Investors WILL be furious and worried, no doubt.
Click to expand...


This is the exact type of thinking is one of the reasons Sony is in so much trouble right now. Foolish pride on overpriced tech that consumers don't give a shit about.


Just like with Nintendo, yes? That sure turned out swell for the Wii...
Click to expand...


Devs supported the Wii, but their games didn't sell.
 
B

Banana Kid

Member
I still haven't seen a Vita game that really feels like it thrives on handheld. I've seen a bunch of PS3 game scaled down with some touchscreen junk shoved in. That's kind of a novelty, but it's not going to sustain the platform.

With the 3DS, I know there's gonna be Pokemon somewhere down the line, and I know that franchise works better on handheld than on console. That justifies the 3DS to me. Nothing's justifying the Vita, since all the games on it would be as good if not better on my PS3 or my phone.
 
D

Daydream Sequence

Banned
Green Slime said:
So how do you like your crow prepared? Fried or baked?
Click to expand...

If your assertion is that NSMB2 is going to bring DS-esque success, I'll be serving you the crow. You'll be bringing the salt.

Banana Kid said:
I still haven't seen a Vita game that really feels like it thrives on handheld. I've seen a bunch of PS3 game scaled down with some touchscreen junk shoved in. That's kind of a novelty, but it's not going to sustain the platform.
Click to expand...

Lumines and Rayman for me are just about the only two games I've played that feel better on a handheld than on the consoles. Lumines is the only reason I still even turn on the Vita. Sony's really screwed this thing up.
 
L

lunchwithyuzo

Banned
witchedwiz said:
i was under the impression that they're doing this because psvita development isn't so outrageously different from ps2 (apart from EE).. is that false?
that being said...
devil survivor port on 3ds
devil survivor 2 on nds
smt iv on 3ds (canon smt....)

in the meanwhile
p2:ep for psp
vita gets p4:g

not THAT different, but a mainline smt on 3ds offsets the balance greatly... devil survivor in vita would be glorious!
Click to expand...
Vita got P4G because it was originally a PSP project and Atlus felt it'd be better served getting bumped up to the new system. Fortunately it sold really well so I'd expect more SMT stuff (or at least Persona stuff) to make it's way to Vita. A P4A port would probably be a good move.

That said, it's hard to deny that Atlus is giving much better support to 3DS overall. Devil Survivor Overclocked, Sparkle Snapshots (eShop), Soul Hackers, Etrian Odyssey IV and SMTIV versus Persona 4G and (multiplatform) Dragon's Crown. Plus 3DS may still get Persona in some form too.
 
NinjaBoiX

NinjaBoiX

Member
Slaker117 said:
Unfortunate. The Vita is cool hardware, but I don't know that what it offers is viable in today's market.
Click to expand...
I dunno dude, let's look at the boxes it ticks:

High resolution screen
Dual analogs (only handheld to have them)
Gyroscope
Touchscreen (front and back)
Front and back facing cameras

In terms of tech, I think it's right on the money for today's market. Touchscreen, camera and gyro alone would be right in step, but then they add another touch panel, another camera, two sticks, the thing is falling over itself to impress.

I love it, but agree they need to save it sharpish.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Daydream Sequence said:
If your assertion is that NSMB2 is going to bring DS-esque success, I'll be serving you the crow. You'll be bringing the salt.
Click to expand...

The problem, though, is that we will probably never see DS-like success again in this industry.
 
Metallix87

Metallix87

Member
PopcornMegaphone said:
This is the exact type of thinking is one of the reasons Sony is in so much trouble right now. Foolish pride on overpriced tech that consumers don't give a shit about.
Click to expand...

This isn't about pride. It's about logic. Sony screwed the entire Vita situation royally, but they can't pull the plug. Too many consumers, developers, publishers, and investors would be burned by such a move. At the very least, they need to ride this out past the system's worldwide one year anniversary.

PopcornMegaphone said:
Devs supported the Wii, but their games didn't sell.
Click to expand...

Now you're just being absurd. Devs supported the Wii with shovelware, ports, and games no one would want. They released countless "tests" on the Wii, and when consumers were fed up, they turned around and threw it back in their faces with "Clearly, the Wii market isn't viable." Yeah, of course it's not viable! If you do nothing but dump poison into the lake, eventually you will kill or scare off all the fish.
 
X

Xiaoki

Member
ElTopo said:
Compare the sales of the two devices. Nintendo doesn't need to "secure" exclusitivity rights, people need to let go of that "moneyhat" stuff.
Click to expand...

When MH4 was revealed Capcom said it was in development for 2 years, so well before sales figures. Monster Hunter has clearly been moneyhatted.


Before third parties are going to take Vita seriously Sony needs to take it seriously. Sony is dedicating all of their efforts exclusively to the PS3 still. Did they really think the Vita would be doing so awesome right now that it wouldnt need an exclusive version(ie no PS3 version ever) of God of War? Yeah, cross play games PS All Stars is great and all but how about some big name exclusives from Sony.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
-NinjaBoiX- said:
I dunno dude, let's look at the boxes it ticks:

High resolution screen
Dual analogs (only handheld to have them)
Gyroscope
Touchscreen (front and back)
Front and back facing cameras

In terms of tech, I think it's right on the money for today's market. Touchscreen, camera and gyro alone would be right in step, but then they add another touch panel, another camera, two sticks, the thing is falling over itself to impress.

I love it, but agree they need to save it sharpish.
Click to expand...

A prime example of how important price point is for non-Apple products. All of these things are fantastic but the price is what holds it back.
 
Metallix87

Metallix87

Member
Daydream Sequence said:
If your assertion is that NSMB2 is going to bring DS-esque success, I'll be serving you the crow. You'll be bringing the salt.
Click to expand...

Overnight? No, absolutely not.

That being said, though, I do suspect it will be the catalyst that starts the 3DS's upward sales momentum in the West into the Holidays and beyond, and will be a strong seller for years to come.
 
L

lunchwithyuzo

Banned
Daydream Sequence said:
Yeah, I get that Nintendo fanboys like to believe this. They also believed the 3DS would sell incredibly well at 250. And then they believed it would sell incredibly well at 170. It hasn't. Mario sells systems, but anyone that thinks NSMB2 is going to do for the 3DS what the original did for the DS isn't paying attention.
Click to expand...
Pachter's a Nintendo fanboy now? :3

And lol at matching DS being the standard for success. That's not quite what you said previously...
 
J

jorgeton

Member
The Vita is just too expensive to be viable for a lot of people. Sony needs to drop that price under $200. I don't know many folks (aside from gaming enthusiasts like us) who will drop almost $300 on a handheld gaming system in this economy, when they are happy playing the thousands of free or $1 games on their smart phones.

Also, yeah, the games on the Vita are sorely lacking. Nothing jumps out at me. It's sad that the only Vita game I have even a remote interest in, is a port of a 5 year old PS2 game (P4G). And the fact Sony hasn't fixed the PS1 backwards compatibility is inexcusable. That should have been a day one feature.
 
C

commish

Jason Kidd murdered my dog in cold blood!
-NinjaBoiX- said:
I dunno dude, let's look at the boxes it ticks:

High resolution screen
Dual analogs (only handheld to have them)
Gyroscope
Touchscreen (front and back)
Front and back facing cameras

In terms of tech, I think it's right on the money for today's market. Touchscreen, camera and gyro alone would be right in step, but then they add another touch panel, another camera, two sticks, the thing is falling over itself to impress.

I love it, but agree they need to save it sharpish.
Click to expand...

All those things you mentioned? Most people don't give a shit about that stuff when it comes to portable gaming. Never have, never will. That is Sony's problem. They dont' realize that consumers value other things more - price, unique experiences, etc.
 
Metallix87

Metallix87

Member
Xiaoki said:
When MH4 was revealed Capcom said it was in development for 2 years, so well before sales figures. Monster Hunter has clearly been moneyhatted.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily.

There are several factors you're ignoring, which include the DS's hardware sales compared to the PSP's, the specs of the 3DS compared to the Vita, and of course the number of clones likely to appear on the Vita.

Capcom played it brilliantly. They banked on 3DS having a larger userbase than Vita based on the previous generation, and thus assumed that there would be more (and new) potential Monster Hunter fans on the 3DS. They saw the 3DS's weaker specs as a way to "get away with" reusing assets from the PSP games and the Wii game. Lastly, they assumed that any Monster Hunter clones would appear primarily on the Vita and/or PSP, and came to the 3DS with no real competition.

Is a money hat a possibility? Yes, but it's not a definite.
 
L

Loghorn150

Banned
Green Slime said:
Now you're just being absurd. Devs supported the Wii with shovelware, ports, and games no one would want. They released countless "tests" on the Wii, and when consumers were fed up, they turned around and threw it back in their faces with "Clearly, the Wii market isn't viable." Yeah, of course it's not viable! If you do nothing but dump poison into the lake, eventually you will kill or scare off all the fish.
Click to expand...

I agree. Most 3rd party developers treated the Wii like a red-headed stepchild while they treated the 360 & PS3 like they were A-list celebrities. It was so...how should I put this...baffling, especially with the Wii having a larger userbase & low development costs for the platform.
 
E

electroplankton

Banned
Xiaoki said:
When MH4 was revealed Capcom said it was in development for 2 years, so well before sales figures. Monster Hunter has clearly been moneyhatted.
Click to expand...

Capcom simply didn't want to lose the train as it happened with DS, so they put the expansion of MH3 (being a Wii project, the choice was between Wii and 3DS) and 4 on 3DS was the most natural choice.
 
F

F#A#Oo

Banned
Everyone pretty much predicted the Vita's death...

It doesn't make sense to make a handheld that just does console games on the move...no one wants that...its not convenient and more importantly pointless...if I wanna play Uncharted I'll get the PS3 games which are superior and the best format to play the game. If I wanna play AC I'll do the same...Wipeout...LBP...etc etc...

You don't have to be a genius to see Sony have absolutely no idea what they are doing...and who they are marketing the Vita to. They're in la-la-land clearly...
 
Metallix87

Metallix87

Member
michaelius said:
So why is 3DS only 10-20% YOY above last year period after MK7, Mario Land and 80$ price cut?
Click to expand...

1.) 3DS is still priced above the DS's launch price.

2.) 3D Mario =/= 2D Mario

3.) Mario Kart 7 is the anomaly, but I think with NSMB2 coming out, sales will pick up a good bit as people will want both of these titles.

4.) The recession is still VERY real, despite what some may say. Heck, the game market in Europe is bordering on collapse.
 
P

PopcornMegaphone

Banned
Green Slime said:
This isn't about pride. It's about logic. Sony screwed the entire Vita situation royally, but they can't pull the plug. Too many consumers, developers, publishers, and investors would be burned by such a move. At the very least, they need to ride this out past the system's worldwide one year anniversary.
Click to expand...


Logic states if you have a failing money losing platform with no real hope of turning it around you pull the plug. Companies do it all the time.



Now you're just being absurd. Devs supported the Wii with shovelware, ports, and games no one would want. They released countless "tests" on the Wii, and when consumers were fed up, they turned around and threw it back in their faces with "Clearly, the Wii market isn't viable." Yeah, of course it's not viable! If you do nothing but dump poison into the lake, eventually you will kill or scare off all the fish.
Click to expand...


I really do not agree with your view of the Wii's development history, however this isn't the thread to discuss it.
 
R

Ranger X

Member
The Vita is like ' the hardware of dreams' but apparently Sony doesn't have a clue how to handle this.

For the Vita to work, they would have needed a store that truly competes Itunes, alot more marketing, forget that PS3 on the go stupid feature that will never help sales anyways and push way many more efforts in matter of games. That would have mean much more investment but in the end, I doubt they would have a bigger loss than what they have now. And since the console would probably recoup the money way faster. Right now it's like the Vita will pull off a 'PSP Go'. Money hole.
 
F

Father_Brain

Banned
Green Slime said:
This isn't about pride. It's about logic. Sony screwed the entire Vita situation royally, but they can't pull the plug. Too many consumers, developers, publishers, and investors would be burned by such a move. At the very least, they need to ride this out past the system's worldwide one year anniversary.
Click to expand...

Consumers? Not that many have bought Vita anyway.

Developers and publishers? How many have sunk that much into Vita development? ACIII: Liberation is the only announced third-party Vita exclusive that seems to have a decent budget behind it.

Investors? Again, it's no secret that Vita is bombing and is unlikely to meet any of Sony's long-term profit goals for it.

I don't see Sony pulling the plug any earlier than around the time they report their earnings for the current fiscal year (late April/early May 2013), so I'm fairly certain that that last bit will at least be the case.
 
P

Phoenician_Viking

Banned
Green Slime said:
1.) 3DS is still priced above the DS's launch price.

2.) 3D Mario =/= 2D Mario

3.) Mario Kart 7 is the anomaly, but I think with NSMB2 coming out, sales will pick up a good bit as people will want both of these titles.

4.) The recession is still VERY real, despite what some may say. Heck, the game market in Europe is bordering on collapse.
Click to expand...

People were saying when MK7 announced that it will sell 22 million and propel the 3DS into the heavens. It did not happen. Wait for this and that apparently is a Nintendo thing as well not just a Sony thing.
 
N

neptunes

Member
Father_Brain said:
Consumers? Not that many have bought Vita anyway.

Developers and publishers? How many have sunk that much into Vita development? ACIII: Liberation is the only announced third-party Vita exclusive that seems to have a decent budget behind it.

Investors? Again, it's no secret that Vita is bombing and is unlikely to meet any of Sony's long-term profit goals for it.

I don't see Sony pulling the plug any earlier than around the time they report their earnings for the current fiscal year (late April/early May 2013), so I'm fairly certain that that last bit will at least be the case.
Click to expand...

IF Sony was to end it. they won't pull the plug any earlier than say may 2014, by then it would already been on the market for 2 years.

but that hypothetical scenario is so unlikely, it's hard guessing what and what would happen.
 
C

commish

Jason Kidd murdered my dog in cold blood!
Ah, a Neogaf thread about the Vita that turns into a Nintendo defense force party. Shocking.
 
Metallix87

Metallix87

Member
PopcornMegaphone said:
Logic states if you have a failing money losing platform with not real hope of turning it around you pull the plug. Companies do it all the time.
Click to expand...

"Companies do it all the time" =/= "Console manufacturers do it all the time"

AGAIN, Sony can't do it because too many people have invested in this. Let's ignore investors for a second, and just look at developers. If Sony pulls the plug on the Vita, what will developers who are hard at work on Vita games do? They'll end up having to sink a ton of money either converting their projects to 3DS games, to Mobile games, or to console games. Sony will have cost these developers, and the publishers that are funding them, a LOT of money.

Now, when it's time for PS4, how eager do you think these publishers and developers will be to back yet another Sony system, one that's also carrying the PS name, with exclusive games and/or content?
 
P

Phoenician_Viking

Banned
Spiegel said:
Sony won't pull the plug off Vita. Worst case scenario the system will become a PS Mobile and PSN player.
Click to expand...

Sony endured all the losses from the PS3, they will endure the Vita. Everyone who is saying that Sony will abandon the Vita is either delusional or have a fantasy about it.
 
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