It does not fit any normal 1080p TV's full resolution, and more importantly if even they can't match that it means other games with more going on will struggle even harder and thus bodes especially poorly for 4K games next gen almost regardless of the hardware. That is the real discussion to be had, but you derailed it with the dumbest, most pedantic argument over 1080p I've ever seen.
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4K Video Gaming is already here (Toshiba Video Demo )
- Thread starter onQ123
- Start date
it's not possible for it to be 1080 lines going across if it's only 1 pixel wide.
if it's 1 pixel wide there can not be 1080 lines going across because you can't make a line with 1 pixel.
how the hell is that so hard for you to understand?
You're right. But it's really dumb that you're still arguing this insignificant point while ignoring the actual debate.
Oh it's dumb of me to try to put sense into someone who was saying " 1x1080 & 0x1080 = 1080P lol look at me I'm so smart"
maniac-kun
Member
Since a 680 GTX can only deliver 30 fps at that res i dont believe that next-gen console games will run at 4k.
Sony needs content to sell 4K TVs, so I'd expect them to use PS4 for this just like they did for 1080P and 3D with PS3. 4K@30FPS (which 4K TVs currently seem restricted to) is only 2x 1080P@60FPS (Ridge Racer 7, a PS3 launch game achieved that), so it seems very likely that there will be at least some 4K capable PS4 games.
However, like PS3 the vast majority of games, especially third party likely won't support the maximum resolution. Regardless, many third party games are multiplatform and available on PC, and many of those will support 4K.
However, like PS3 the vast majority of games, especially third party likely won't support the maximum resolution. Regardless, many third party games are multiplatform and available on PC, and many of those will support 4K.
Yes, it is dumb when your rebuttal was basically that 3x1080 qualified as 1080p. BTW, why not 2x1080? 2 points form a line.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
If we're being that pedantic, than it's also worth pointing out that no "lines" that you speak of are actually lines; instead they're rectangles that are one pixel wide.
Seriously, this is ridiculous. We all know full well what 1080p means in the context, and it's 1920x1080 and nothing else.
UltimateIke
Member
It's 1920x1080 for 16:9, and from that you can extrapolate the resolution for other aspect ratios.
Probably some time next year. And you might as well throw out your coffee table now, because you won't be needing it when your couch is 3 feet away from your 55" television.
Honestly though, 2018? It won't be until 4k set prices are what 1080p set prices are now. And even then, the average consumer won't buy one until he needs to replace his old 1080p set.
That's only if you want to retain the same level of sharpness. At this point I sort of wonder if the point of 4K is to have such high DPI so far away it looks more like real life, or at least a very high quality photograph.
But there won't be any significant DPI increase for 4k sets unless you buy a relatively small screen. So you're suggesting that we should buy a small 4k screen and then sit really far away from it?
BigDaddyFatSack
Banned
1080p res'd next-gen games will look absolutely horrible on a 4K display. Worse than looking at 720p res'd games on a 1080p display. I really doubt 4K would catch on quick with the gamers.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
sweet can turn off the AA
Going by Apple's retina displays it's hard to imagine that kind of increase not making a huge difference since it's the same exact thing: quadrupling the pixels in the same space. That's assuming the same size TV of course, I'd say the bigger problem is the fact it'd probably be harder to even notice such a difference at the distance we usually watch TVs, thus why I threw out that thought.
Graphics Horse
Member
People seem to like the look of PSP games on the Vita.
soulassssns
Banned
Technically it is "current gen".
LiveFromKyoto
Member
Anything encoded at 1080p won't make the best use of the TV. But if anything this will bolster blu ray as a format. Streaming 4K content will murder most people's bandwidth.
I think 2K is going to be the new standard. The PC crowd is usually a small step ahead of the TV crowd in terms of adopted tech, and 2K is going to be far more feasible on computer hardware by the time it would hit stores. 4K would require a substantially higher investment into desktop PCs to hit that 60Hz rendering standard.
I would prefer games and content to hit a 2K-120Hz rendering standard before 4K-60Hz. To me, 120Hz looks ludicrously smooth.
I would prefer games and content to hit a 2K-120Hz rendering standard before 4K-60Hz. To me, 120Hz looks ludicrously smooth.
Salacious Crumb
Junior Member
2K is 1080P...
PC Gamers can already play games at 2560 x 1440 (over the 2K standard ).
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
...they do all of those now. its the 1080P standard that keeps 120hz and higher resolutions expensive, most of the panels made are 1080p
No, if 4K is exactly 4x the number of pixels as 1920x1080 it will look exactly the same as on a native display (take one square and fit it into four smaller squares of the same shape).
Even with a res that are not an exact multiple of the number of pixels on the screen, it will still look close to native if the difference between the input res and screen pixel res is large enough, due to the fact that with a much higher number of screen pixels than input pixels the size of the pixels with wrong data due to upscaling will make up much less of the image.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Well, by that logic, 960x540 should look great on a 1080p monitor.
OldAsUrSock
Banned
Soon arguments and discussions will look even better!
Sony better not try PS4 4k @ 30fps. The PS4 might start out like the PS3. It would be very expensive.
The biggest obstacle to 4k adoption is the fact that most people are not buying new TVs right now. 4K is just the latest breakthrough the TV manufacturers have come up with to try to keep sales up. 3D didn't do it, Web connectivity didn't do it, and 4K will face an uphill battle as well.
Most homes already have multiple HD capable TVs and right now they are not looking to upgrade. There was a big boom when HD TVs first hit mass market pricing because it was a total shift in the way we viewed content. Everything since has been add ons. Sure 4K is touted as being much better, but most people will look at the price of a 4K set today and probably for years to come and think "Nah, my 1080P set is good enough."
Early adopters will jump in feet first, but the majority will wait until the price point hits $3000 or less.
Most homes already have multiple HD capable TVs and right now they are not looking to upgrade. There was a big boom when HD TVs first hit mass market pricing because it was a total shift in the way we viewed content. Everything since has been add ons. Sure 4K is touted as being much better, but most people will look at the price of a 4K set today and probably for years to come and think "Nah, my 1080P set is good enough."
Early adopters will jump in feet first, but the majority will wait until the price point hits $3000 or less.
FFS, it is simple math.
I said that the bigger the difference between the input res and the screen res, the closer the image will look closer to the input on a display that has the same res as the input and that if a screen has a res that is a 4x multiple of the input then it will look the same as on a native screen.
Both are OBJECTIVE FACTS!.
The Vita running PSP games says otherwise. However, the PSP/Vita are also handheld systems where you're going to be much closer to the display and thus for the PSP you could see the pixel structure and to an extent that acted like a natural AA, with that gone it just looks really pixalated. If you did the same on a 4K TV... yeah, you'd probably be right and it'd be damn hard to actually see a difference, even filtering might not show as much.
nhlducks35
Member
I don't know if 4K TV's will take off because of the viewing distance compared to a computer. For example, the new Macbook is already 2880 x 1880, and eventually all of Apple's products will be Retina.
This has nothing to do with subpixels!
Just because you like the bigger subpixels in the PSP display does not mean that a input that is 1/4 as many pixels as the screen (with the same aspect ratio) is not able to be displayed without scaling artifacts.
DyslexicAlucard
Member
I... don't think you fully understand the argument. And I don't say that to be insulting, but I just think you misunderstand. Plenty of PCs can do 1080p gaming, and do so with 99.9% of games easily enough.
Except you're saying it'd "look the same", when even accounting for the different display types for the Vita that's obviously not inherently the case, especially when visuals ARE designed with the subpixel structure in mind (or fonts are anyway). But like said it'd probably not as big a deal when jumping from 1080p to 4K given that being a very high resolution alone would avoid that pixalated look, nevermind (good) filtering completely obliterating it.
Of course it'd probably look "bad" anyway with some proper 4K content on the same display, similar to the Vita and PSP games, and I have absolutely no doubt it'd come out better than 480i/p on 720p or 720p on 1080p.
I think what he is saying is that 1080P Movies have all the Resolution that he needs & that Video Games haven't reached the level of 1080P Movies & will not reach that anytime soon so he is happy with 1080P resolution & he would rather Games stay at 1080P & try to reach the level of Movies.
Like taking all the Power of the PS3/Xbox 360 & using it to make a SD game instead of HD to try an make the Game closer to the level of a DVD movie because games haven't reached the same level of graphics as a DVD movie yet.
Edit:
_____________________________________________
That's interesting, Bluerei and onQ123 gave me the idea to test it actually.
On my 40" monitor, this is a real size crop of a 80" 4k picture, done with random D3200 sample on Dpreview. 4k and down-sampled to 2k
Meaning at 40" it's a portion of a 80" screen. What you can see at least, is that even at a proper distance, the 2k version is noticeably blurry.
4K vs 1080P (simulated using a 27" 1080P Samsung S27B550V monitor)
I made this video last night to try to explain this better.
Gran Turismo being shown in 4K this mouth at Sony's Ginza building in Tokyo.
Experience the "Gran Turismo" of 4K at the Sony Building
Google Translate:
Experience the "Gran Turismo" of 4K at the Sony Building
Google Translate:
SniperHunter
Banned
Gran Turismo being shown in 4K at Sony Event
Experience the "Gran Turismo" of 4K at the Sony Building
Google Translate:
running on early PS4 dev kits no doubt
Maybe, but last time when Sony was running GT5P in 4K they used 4 PS3s.
GT5 is a great tech test bench... but they should go the whole hog.
3x 4k screens running on 16 PS3s... on a motion simulation rig...
Something to think about:
even with 4 PS3s the total power of the GPUs is still less than 1TFLOP & they are still able to re-code a game that look as good as GT5 to run in 4K.
I think the number of 4K games on the PS4 is going to be higher than people think. (which is 0 so it's not going to take much to prove people wrong)
even with 4 PS3s the total power of the GPUs is still less than 1TFLOP & they are still able to re-code a game that look as good as GT5 to run in 4K.
I think the number of 4K games on the PS4 is going to be higher than people think. (which is 0 so it's not going to take much to prove people wrong)
I don't think anyone would be surprised actually if the situation were similar to the PS3 and even PS2 (yes), where the vast majority of games DON'T support it, but you get a few racing and arcade-style games, namely GT, that do. Nevermind how often they'll go "We can be 4K, or we can have an AMAZING looking 1080p game!"
Actually, has the standard been fully codified, or set to be soon? If it's not by the time the PS4 comes out... well, firmware can address things, but I'd be REALLY pessimistic there.
AstroNut325
Member
Yes. 4K and 8K are approved standards. Now it's up to the manufacturers of content and audio/video gear to offer products.
The point is for you not to see them.
AstroNut325
Member
We're going to have phones rocking 1080p resolution soon. And people are complaining about progression in TV/Cinema/Game resolutions????