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Is MS money hatting voice controls?

A

AkimbO_Arcana

Banned
While watching a show on Hulu I saw the launch teaser for Dead Space 3 today and in the end it highlights voice control features coming with the 360 version of the game:

"Add voice to your arsenal and amplify the action with Kinect."
Click to expand...

Here's the full launch trailer.

This is something I was curious about before (Mass Effect 3, Skyrim). Why are voice controls something exclusive to Kinect nowadays? We had them on both consoles in Tom Clancy's Endwar years ago.

As far as I know the Kinect hardware doesn't do any processing, so it should be all software based and possible to integrate for use with a standard headset. If this is the case, there should also be no reason why those features are lacking in the PS3 versions of those titles.

Maybe I'm underestimating the effort MS made in recent years on the software side when it comes to voice controls, but the question still stands: Is there a technical reason, why those features are exclusive to Kinect owners?

If I'm horrible wrong here, enlighten me GAF.


Sub-topic: Phil Collins - In the air tonight must be the worst pick for a videogame trailer EVER...
 
L

lupinko

Member
I don't think so, it's just a feature that Kinect provides.

It's like saying Sony is moneyhatting motion controls because we see ONLY ON PLAYSTATION - PlayStation move on multiplat games like Epic Mickey 2 or NBA 2K12.
 
A

alphaNoid

Banned
All voice control computing is offloaded to the processor on the Kinect device, and no console resources are allocated for it (a la standard mic etc..). Thus voice control remains a Kinect feature with zero development cost to development teams.

Have a game that works on several platforms? One platforms offers a separate mic with built in processing cycles in the SDK?

"Better with Kinect"
 
N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Microsoft has a Kinect SDK that includes voice recognition software they wrote.

Microsoft pays devs to add voice command support using it, and since Microsoft already wrote the SDK, developers can do it with a relatively low amount of effort on their part.

For developers to do this on the PS3 version, they would have to A.) not accept Microsoft's money and B.) write or find their own voice recognition SDK.
 
N

Neuromancer

Member
"As far as I know the Kinect hardware doesn't do any processing, so it should be all software based and possible to integrate for use with a standard headset. If this is the case, there should also be no reason why those features are lacking in the PS3 versions of those titles."

The difference is MS provides that software, whereas for the PS3 the developer would have to come up with it on their own.
 
M

Mzo

Member
It's probably easy to implement with some kind of Kinect library they provide the devs.

edit: yup, beaten
 
C

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
I do think MS throws some favors to the publishers who add in Kinect support, such as free advertising and such. The easiest thing to enable Kinect support for is likely voice control. So that's why it's the main Kinect feature for third party games.

edit: completely beaten. :p
 
P

pixlexic

Banned
Voice controls don't work amyway because the game is constantly making noise which can trigger voice events.

I tried me 3. Voice controls through kinect and it was so funny. I said " move up". And the people in game said "moving up". Which triggered another guy " ok moving up". Which triggered the other guy .. Eh you see where this is going.
 
D

DanteRavenkin

Member
While I'm not a fan of Kinect, I think the reason voice commands are only on the Xbox version of some games, is because there's no extra step. Kinect just sits there, silently watching and listening to what you do. On PS3, you'd have to wear a headset while playing a single player game to access voice controls.
 
A

AkimbO_Arcana

Banned
alphaNoid said:
All voice control computing is offloaded to the processor on the Kinect device, and no console resources are allocated for it (a la standard mic etc..). Thus voice control remains a Kinect feature with zero development cost to development teams.
Click to expand...

Huh, I was under the impression that MS removed the Kinect processor before they launched the device to cut the costs and that everything is done by the console itself.

If this is the case, I don't see a reason (besides pushing the device) why devs can't access those libraries and enable voice controls with a standard mic.
 
D

Dabanton

Member
I wish more games had this feature. Skyrim is cool with Kinect voice commands.

I tried the dead space 3 demo with it and that was fun as well.
 
Alx

Alx

Member
AkimbO_Arcana said:
Huh, I was under the impression that MS removed the Kinect processor before they launched the device to cut the costs and that everything is done by the console itself.
Click to expand...

The "removed processor" mentioned in the rumors was about body tracking, not voice processing (and I think I read recently that the rumor wasn't founded anyway). There is still some signal processing done in the sensor, though we don't know exactly what is done there and what is handled by the console.
 
P

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
nbJNvpo.jpg


It wasnt exactly a selling point.
 
M

Mr_Zombie

Member
AkimbO_Arcana said:
If this is the case, I don't see a reason (besides pushing the device) why devs can't access those libraries and enable voice controls with a standard mic.
Click to expand...

Because they are part of Kinect SDK, so they probably take input just from Kinect's mic array.
And of course it's in Microsoft's best interest to push those libraries as exclusive to Kinect.
 
S

Struct09

Member
A

alphaNoid

Banned
AkimbO_Arcana said:
Huh, I was under the impression that MS removed the Kinect processor before they launched the device to cut the costs and that everything is done by the console itself.

If this is the case, I don't see a reason (besides pushing the device) why devs can't access those libraries and enable voice controls with a standard mic.
Click to expand...

I may be entirely wrong but I thought that Kinect did in fact ship with a processing unit, small and not capable of handing real kinect body tracking features but minor things, including voice. I do recall there being some back and forth right near launch but I'm pretty sure a few devs were on record saying that Kinect and the SDK run voice on the Kinect unit itself.

edit. Seems it was linked above
 
S

see5harp

Member
Binary Domain voice controls would have been actually decent had they used the Kinect libraries. Going from that to something like Mass Effect 3 using the Kinect showed there is a significant benefit to fidelity when using Kinect versus a standard headset (regardless of whether you like the actual implementation of said features).
 
A

alphaNoid

Banned
see5harp said:
Binary Domain voice controls would have been actually decent had they used the Kinect libraries. Going from that to something like Mass Effect 3 using the Kinect showed there is a significant benefit to fidelity when using Kinect versus a standard headset (regardless of whether you like the actual implementation of said features).
Click to expand...

I played (and LOVED) BD on PC and I couldn't help but think the exact same thing. I thought the idea of voice controls in that game was fantastic but the implementation and libraries were glaringly off-putting.
 
D

dab0ne

Member
Because voice controls aren't really that great. A cool novelty maybe. But nothing spectacular. It was available as far back as Socom for the PS2. Manhunt also implemented the headset but specific voice commands weren't available. It's certainly nothing new but I don't think it's really a selling point. Don't really know why Kinect uses it as one TBH.
 
S

see5harp

Member
alphaNoid said:
I played (and LOVED) BD on PC and I couldn't help but think the exact same thing. I thought the idea of voice controls in that game was fantastic but the implementation and libraries were glaringly off-putting.
Click to expand...

For sure. I actually thought a lot of the interaction, while basic and not esssential, was novel. I could not even get the game to register simple one word responses though, even turning off audio entirely and speaking directly into a mic. Even with my 5.1 system blasting, I can normally get games like ME3 or Skyrim to do exactly what I want without even a hint of elevating my voice. The same goes for pausing a movie or navigating HBO Go. The guy complaining about false inputs because of volume must not have done the calibration.
 
B

Bony Manifesto

Member
alphaNoid said:
I do recall there being some back and forth right near launch but I'm pretty sure a few devs were on record saying that Kinect and the SDK run voice on the Kinect unit itself.
Click to expand...

The Kinect does have an extremely low-end general-purpose processor on board, but I don't think it's realistic to expect it to be powerful enough to perform on-the-fly voice recognition, especially in addition to the processing it does on the raw audio and visual data to get it into a usable format.
 
J

jkanownik

Member
Kinect calibrates background noise reduction during setup, so I would assume that helps a lot with the voice recognition.

Also note that the arrangement for the promos is likely just matching funds for marketing. Cooperative advertising is common across many industries (e.g. Intel Inside). It is unlikely that Microsoft is actually sending them any money. They're just covering part of a media bill.
 
O

onQ123

Member
Joni said:
The PlayStation Eye also recognises voices. It is just not that good at it.
Click to expand...

The PlayStation Eye Mic Array recognize voices just as good as Kinect's Mic Array, the difference is the kinect has hardware inside of it so the voice commends are done on the kinect hardware without using the Xbox 360 CPU.


I can make a video right now of the PlayStation Eye being used for voice search working with no problems.
 
D

Dabanton

Member
dab0ne said:
Because voice controls aren't really that great. A cool novelty maybe. But nothing spectacular. It was available as far back as Socom for the PS2. Manhunt also implemented the headset but specific voice commands weren't available. It's certainly nothing new but I don't think it's really a selling point. Don't really know why Kinect uses it as one TBH.
Click to expand...

Voice controls are very good imo.

But you're right it's not anything new. But it's better implemented now than it was on games like Rainbow 6 and Socom which had a few voice commands. And the best thing is they're optional. If your a player that doesn't care about them then you don't have to use them.

As a few people have said for certain games like Skyrim, Kinect works so well you can't believe that it wasn't something that was in the game from launch.
 
E

EGM1966

Member
Easier to support with Kinect I believe (although I do understand Sony has similar libraries available for use with Eye just not so refined). Also MS I believe do fund/encourage it for Kinect so while not necessarily money-hatting they do seek to get it in the title more than Sony seem to (or are willing to push).

Personally I've never liked voice recognition for anything. I dislike speaking aloud to search stuff, call people on the phone, etc. Voice recognition while I'm sure valuable in certain areas and no doubt for people with certain disabilities is something I just don't get for stuff like videogames, etc.

Of course if you like it then it does no harm either I guess.
 
Evolved1

Evolved1

make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
Sony did that shit with the first Socom and it actually worked decently well...
 
SmokedMeat

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
Here's the deal; Microsoft is stuck with this mediocre motion accessory Kinect that they convinced millions of dopes like me to purchase. Problem is no one wants to make games for it, because it's a turd. But Microsoft still wants to push this thing, so they request that developers somehow implement it in their new games, and so rather than making some half assed motion shit they use the mic for vocal commands.

Now the Kinect owner doesn't feel quite as shafted that they bought a Kinect, because hey, at least I have some sort of Kinect integration with my new game. Even if it's just using my touted motion control doohickey as a glorified microphone.
 
Refreshment.01

Refreshment.01

Member
AkimbO_Arcana said:
While watching a show on Hulu I saw the launch teaser for Dead Space 3 today and in the end it highlights voice control features coming with the 360 version of the game:



Here's the full launch trailer.

This is something I was curious about before (Mass Effect 3, Skyrim). Why are voice controls something exclusive to Kinect nowadays? We had them on both consoles in Tom Clancy's Endwar years ago.

As far as I know the Kinect hardware doesn't do any processing, so it should be all software based and possible to integrate for use with a standard headset. If this is the case, there should also be no reason why those features are lacking in the PS3 versions of those titles.

Maybe I'm underestimating the effort MS made in recent years on the software side when it comes to voice controls, but the question still stands: Is there a technical reason, why those features are exclusive to Kinect owners?

If I'm horrible wrong here, enlighten me GAF.


Sub-topic: Phil Collins - In the air tonight must be the worst pick for a videogame trailer EVER...
Click to expand...
Yes Akimbo, MS monehats Kinect support, in what way im not sure. Voice commands can be done with the standard headset. Is really too bad MS never suported the feature in the beggining and now with Kinect it blocks the implementation outside of the peripheral.

Voice recognition in games should be standard by now.
onQ123 said:
The PlayStation Eye Mic Array recognize voices just as good as Kinect's Mic Array, the difference is the kinect has hardware inside of it so the voice commends are done on the kinect hardware without using the Xbox 360 CPU.


I can make a video right now of the PlayStation Eye being used for voice search working with no problems.
Click to expand...
Yes, pretty much any sh!t mic works quite well for voice recognition, if the software is up to stuff. Hell even some DS games do a really good job with that poor mic. So in this case is not hardware what's stopping a more widespread use of voice in games.
 
Refreshment.01

Refreshment.01

Member
OldJadedGamer said:
This is where I stand.
Click to expand...
Has it uses for inmersion purposes. A good example is the partner implementation in Skyrim. Not talking about the execution because i havent tested it myself but the idea. Initiating the exchance of items by using voice is a very natural and covinient.
 
O

onQ123

Member
Joni said:
The PlayStation Eye also recognises voices. It is just not that good at it.
Click to expand...

onQ123 said:
The PlayStation Eye Mic Array recognize voices just as good as Kinect's Mic Array, the difference is the kinect has hardware inside of it so the voice commends are done on the kinect hardware without using the Xbox 360 CPU.


I can make a video right now of the PlayStation Eye being used for voice search working with no problems.
Click to expand...


Google Voice Search using the PlayStation Eye Mic Array

Refreshment.01 said:
Voice recognition in games should be standard by now.

Yes, pretty much any sh!t mic works quite well for voice recognition, if the software is up to stuff. Hell even some DS games do a really good job with that poor mic. So in this case is not hardware what's stopping a more widespread use of voice in games.
Click to expand...

true but I already made my video & uploaded it.


& seeing how good google voice search is right now I think Voice Commend will be pretty close to being natural in some Next Gen Games if the data base is large enough or they use a internet data base for all the commends.
 
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