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Nintendo explains why you can't play as a woman in Zelda: Tri Force Heroes

krizzx

Junior Member
Simple, Nintendo refuses to conform to the wishes of the popular view here on NeoGAF. It has nothing to do with gender equality. Gender equality is just the weapon used in this specific case. You could easily swap out the topic of gender equality with technical power and this thread would read in a similar fashion.

Conform Nintendo, conform. You are not allowed to be an individual Nintendo, conform.

This is actually rather well spoken.

I really don't won't western modern social politics being forced into established games. The story goes that Link is a reincarnating hero, not heroine. What don't people just ask for new games with female character. Why are they so hell bent on warping established games and there themes.
 
Because Nintendo doesn't want to. Move on.
I feel like this is the message from every Nintendo apologist to everyone else who wants better from Nintendo.

  • Oh, you want online co-op in some of the best offline games like Super Mario 3D World? They don't, move on.
  • Oh, you want online multiplayer for Mario Party? They don't, find some friends in real life or move on.
  • Oh, you want a Nintendo console to have party chat and some other basic features from their competition, like voice chat in Splatoon? Well good thing Nintendo doesn't want the filth from the internet polluting us! Instead, let me tell you about this Miiverse and especially this Miiverse stage in Smash that definitely doesn't have dongs expanding everywhere. Not one dong, not a single one. Move on.
  • Oh, you want Nintendo to support their titles after launch? Well let me tell you a fine thing about that.. Nintendo ships complete titles. Move on. -years later-
    "Where can I find ____ Amiibo?"
The pain is insufferable at times.
 

Laughing Banana

Weeping Pickle
I feel like this is the message from every Nintendo apologist to everyone else who wants better from Nintendo.

  • Oh, you want online co-op in some of the best offline games like Super Mario 3D World? They don't, move on.
  • Oh, you want online multiplayer for Mario Party? They don't, find some friends in real life or move on.
  • Oh, you want a Nintendo console to have party chat and some other basic features from their competition, like voice chat in Splatoon? Well good thing Nintendo doesn't want the filth from the internet polluting us! Instead, let me tell you about this Miiverse and especially this Miiverse stage in Smash that definitely doesn't have dongs expanding everywhere. Not one dong, not a single one. Move on.
  • Oh, you want Nintendo to support their titles after launch? Well let me tell you a fine thing about that.. Nintendo ships complete titles. Move on. -years later-
    "Where can I find ____ Amiibo?"
The pain is insufferable at times.

So, putting a playable woman in Zelda: Triforce Heroes is one of the things that we can classify as Nintendo "doing better"? As in, they are "worse" for not allowing it?
 
If Nintendo did, they'd be better off mot making the game play anything like what Link plays like. Zelda has a different skill set and all. They could play up the wisdom angle and make it more of a grand tower defense game. Focus on defending the realm before it falls, deciding where to deploy Link if it does etc.
Make a Zelda-led game like the regular games, but instead of a sword Zelda just jumps and lightning kicks everybody in the face.

I'm only half kidding.

So, putting a playable woman in Zelda: Triforce Heroes is one of the things that we can classify as Nintendo "doing better"? As in, they are "worse" for not allowing it?
It'd be a nice extra, so yeah I'd classify as 'doing better' in the same way putting anything I specifically want in a game is the developer 'doing better' for me.

However I'll give you that comparing this to Nintendo's still hyper conservative approach to online services is more than a bit much.
 

mStudios

Member
I feel like this is the message from every Nintendo apologist to everyone else who wants better from Nintendo.

  • Oh, you want online co-op in some of the best offline games like Super Mario 3D World? They don't, move on.
  • Oh, you want online multiplayer for Mario Party? They don't, find some friends in real life or move on.
  • Oh, you want a Nintendo console to have party chat and some other basic features from their competition, like voice chat in Splatoon? Well good thing Nintendo doesn't want the filth from the internet polluting us! Instead, let me tell you about this Miiverse and especially this Miiverse stage in Smash that definitely doesn't have dongs expanding everywhere. Not one dong, not a single one. Move on.
  • Oh, you want Nintendo to support their titles after launch? Well let me tell you a fine thing about that.. Nintendo ships complete titles. Move on. -years later-
    "Where can I find ____ Amiibo?"
The pain is insufferable at times.

I complained about almost every single point that you mentioned. I love Nintendo, and it's my favorite company, but I'm far from a "apologist" or fanboy.

and yes, we have to "Move on" because Nintendo is one of those company who doesn't give a crap about what their fans says. They have a goal in mind when they create a game and they're going to stick with it until the end.

And that's a good thing. Last time they listened to their fans, Twilight Princess happened (Excellent game) and their fans still complained.
 

Krabboss

Member
So, putting a playable woman in Zelda: Triforce Heroes is one of the things that we can classify as Nintendo "doing better"? As in, they are "worse" for not allowing it?

When it's combined with Tomodachi Life and drugging bisexual women to cure their attraction to women in Fire Emblem, yeah probably.

I guess it's really important to uphold the lore that the devs pulled out of their ass when they made a game with three Links in it, though.
 

Vena

Member
When it's combined with Tomodachi Life and drugging bisexual women to cure their attraction to women in Fire Emblem, yeah probably.

I guess it's really important to uphold the lore that the devs pulled out of their ass when they made a game with three Links in it, though.

You might want to actually be informed before making such statements.

Hint: That doesn't happen.
 

Laughing Banana

Weeping Pickle
It'd be a nice extra, so yeah I'd classify as 'doing better' in the same way putting anything I specifically want in a game is the developer 'doing better' for me.

However I'll give you that comparing this to Nintendo's still hyper conservative approach to online services is more than a bit much.

I can understand the intention, but I just don't see the comparison with all those things as apt whatsoever.

When it's combined with Tomodachi Life and drugging bisexual women to cure their attraction to women in Fire Emblem, yeah probably.

I guess it's really important to uphold the lore that the devs pulled out of their ass when they made a game with three Links in it, though.

Yeah well maybe you should stop pulling stuff out of your own ass first.
 
I honestly have no idea why you felt the need to put "larger conversation" in quotes as though it's something I've made up. If you have missed the many, many topics about concerns about better representation over the last several years, all I can say is that you have not been paying attention. I promise you that Nintendo isn't being singled out here, and this type of thing started long before this game was ever unveiled.

It has nothing to do with anyone being singled out, it's in quotes because it's a buzzword.
Just like when talking heads on CNN say "We as a nation need to have a conversation about gun control / rap music / sex on tv / violent video games / etc.", there's no conversation. If it were a conversation, people would have accepted Nintendo saying it doesn't fit this game. Instead, people lashed out despite not knowing anything about the game's story.

It's absolutely ridiculous to preemptively criticize Nintendo or this game on this issue given their recent track record with MK8, Smash, Hyrule Warriors, Pikmin 3, Fire Emblem, Captain Toad, Splatoon, etc. Arguing that Nintendo is somehow behind the curve on including female characters or allowing player customization is absurd when you consider their recent library and what they've done with Miis.
 

Oersted

Member
The missing opportunity to play as a woman is not the same as a missing online mode in a game.

The missing opportunity to play as a woman is not the same as an Amiibo.

The missing opportunity to play as a woman is not the same as a missing party chat.


I'm glad that I could clear this up. For more common sense write to your local represent of the anti-strawman coalition.
 
I complained about almost every single point that you mentioned. I love Nintendo, and it's my favorite company, but I'm far from a "apologist" or fanboy.

and yes, we have to "Move on" because Nintendo is one of those company who doesn't give a crap about what their fans says. They have a goal in mind when they create a game and they're going to stick with it until the end.
I know me quoting you may have implied that, but it was more used to convey a similar trend with everything else. And I don't necessarily think people should move on because many want Nintendo to realize their full potential.
And that's a good thing. Last time they listened to their fans, Twilight Princess happened (Excellent game) and their fans still complained.
This is the case for 99.9% of games released, and Nintendo isn't immune to it. Fans created a petition to stop production on Federation Force and Blast Ball, after all.
I'm glad that I could clear this up. For more common sense write to your local represent of the anti-strawman coalition.
I'm sorry if I upset you, but you need to move on.

Don't want to take the focus away from the Hyrule Warriors discussion anymore though, so I'll move on too.
 

Xav

Member
I'm confused. What's with the sudden urge to have playable female characters in a game starring Link.

Maybe Nintendo should take the Sega approach.


Sega dev 1: We need to cater to everyone.

Sega dev 2: How about a white guy, a black guy and a women?

Sega dev 1: Yeah, that will do.
 
So, putting a playable woman in Zelda: Triforce Heroes is one of the things that we can classify as Nintendo "doing better"? As in, they are "worse" for not allowing it?

Yes, they're worse. In this context, because the reason for not doing it is effectively "*shrug*"

I'm confused. What's with the sudden urge to have playable female characters in a game starring Link.

Maybe Nintendo should take the Sega approach.


Sega dev 1: We need to cater to everyone.

Sega dev 2: How about a white guy, a black guy and a women?

Sega dev 1: Yeah, that will do.

What really gets my goat is that the Links have green, red, and blue hair

That's not the Link I know! Now they're just making my Link a generic avatar.
 
I feel like this is the message from every Nintendo apologist to everyone else who wants better from Nintendo.

  • Oh, you want online co-op in some of the best offline games like Super Mario 3D World? They don't, move on.
  • Oh, you want online multiplayer for Mario Party? They don't, find some friends in real life or move on.
  • Oh, you want a Nintendo console to have party chat and some other basic features from their competition, like voice chat in Splatoon? Well good thing Nintendo doesn't want the filth from the internet polluting us! Instead, let me tell you about this Miiverse and especially this Miiverse stage in Smash that definitely doesn't have dongs expanding everywhere. Not one dong, not a single one. Move on.
  • Oh, you want Nintendo to support their titles after launch? Well let me tell you a fine thing about that.. Nintendo ships complete titles. Move on. -years later-
    "Where can I find ____ Amiibo?"
The pain is insufferable at times.
On the last point, what Nintendo have you been looking at for the last few years, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Fire Emblem Awakening and New Super Mario Bros 2 have all had awesome DLC support, the games themselves were complete but they pushed out a hell of alot more extra content for all of them.
Also look at what they are doing with Splatoon in slowly rolling out more and more stuff week after week.
 

jax

Banned
was this something anyone genuinely wanted in the game? Seems like a total non-issue to me, and I want a female protag in the new Zelda.

This game seems like some halfassed hwarriors-esque LoZ filler to pacify the foamy mouthed die-hards. From what I played at E3, its fun, but nothing to be excited about. Especially since you need 2 other people who own the game to even play.
 
was this something anyone genuinely wanted in the game? Seems like a total non-issue to me, and I want a female protag in the new Zelda.

This game seems like some halfassed hwarriors-esque LoZ filler to pacify the foamy mouthed die-hards. From what I played at E3, its fun, but nothing to be excited about. Especially since you need 2 other people who own the game to even play.

It has a single-player mode
 
Yeah well maybe you should stop pulling stuff out of your own ass first.
You might want to actually be informed before making such statements.

Hint: That doesn't happen.
Hm?
Fire Emblem spoilers I guess?
From everything I've seen that's roughly what happens. End game wise. Like in story it has loose and weak justification for how gross it is but the end result is that it causes her to fall in love and marry the male main character. The fact that he drugs her to cause her to stop fainting because she sees attractive women...doesn't exactly make that better. (That and you can only marry her as a male main character)
Unless it's been pointed out that the entire scenario doesn't take place at all in any form and that every bit of it is a fake translation. I haven't heard that yet.
On topic,
I'm confused. What's with the sudden urge to have playable female characters in a game starring Link.

Maybe Nintendo should take the Sega approach.


Sega dev 1: We need to cater to everyone.

Sega dev 2: How about a white guy, a black guy and a women?

Sega dev 1: Yeah, that will do.

It's not sudden. It's something people have wanted for a while. It did heat up in a big way when Zelda Wii U stuff was shown and Link looked like they coulda been a girl.
 
In every thread so far that I've participated discussing the idea of Female Link, it seems like the idea of making Zelda the lead character instead is viewed as not as favorable or valuable than playing as Female Link; there's this certain idea that making Zelda as the lead somehow make it less empowering than playing as Female Link, or by doing so the hypothetical game suddenly lose its eligibility to be called a "main game."

I find it really, really odd.
I 100% agree.

Zelda being the protagonist is the perfect solution IMO. She's one of Nintendo's best and most interesting characters, and she's is criminally underutilized.
 
Unless it's been pointed out that the entire scenario doesn't take place at all in any form and that every bit of it is a fake translation. I haven't heard that yet.
The impression I got is that it's from an incredibly rough fan-translation and there was no proper comparison between it and the original Japanese at the time of those reports, though I guess the thread got locked pretty quickly once it turned into mixing Fire Emblem in with 9/11 conspiracies.
 
The impression I got is that it's from an incredibly rough fan-translation and there was no proper comparison between it and the original Japanese at the time of those reports, though I guess the thread got locked pretty quickly once it turned into mixing Fire Emblem in with 9/11 conspiracies.

Ahh, alright. Didn't see the thread about it until I searched for it. I've read the source tumblr and they don't appear to be coming from a LETS JUST MAKE STUFF UP place and seems to have corrected any of the mistakes/assumptions in the first part, but hopefully someone who can properly translate it will sort it out.
 

Hubb

Member
Ahh, alright. Didn't see the thread about it until I searched for it. I've read the source tumblr and they don't appear to be coming from a LETS JUST MAKE STUFF UP place and seems to have corrected any of the mistakes/assumptions in the first part, but hopefully someone who can properly translate it will sort it out.

Either way your rendition of what was translated is misleading at best.
 
I 100% agree.

Zelda being the protagonist is the perfect solution IMO. She's one of Nintendo's best and most interesting characters, and she's is criminally underutilized.

I'd want Zelda to have her own thing, and honestly, I want both. I want a Link game where Link can be a girl, and a Zelda game.
 
Either way your rendition of what was translated is misleading at best.

The very first post about it did have a misleading bit about the character fainting whenever she saw a cute girl, but everything else still appears to be accurate. But again won't know for sure until official translation I guess.

Anyway I agree with snitch. A zelda game would be great, I also would wont both.
 
I'd want Zelda to have her own thing, and honestly, I want both. I want a Link game where Link can be a girl, and a Zelda game.
I would be fine with that too, but is having the a female character named Link the most important aspect to you, even if Zelda as the protagonist fulfills every other aspect? She doesn't even need to be the princess necessarily, I'd be fine either way.
 
Link is an established character.

Yep, he hasn't changed at all during his many incarnations. Nope. Not once. Yep.

I am honestly trying to think of a time Link wasn't an Elf with a Tunic and a Sword of some sort.
Oh in Link to the Past he became a bunny... I miss Bunny Link...
 
I am honestly trying to think of a time Link wasn't an Elf with a Tunic and a Sword of some sort.
Oh in Link to the Past he became a bunny... I miss Bunny Link...

Are you truly, honestly trying?

majoralinkmasks.jpg


Octorok-Link.jpg


310528-zelda-ii-the-adventure-of-link-nes-screenshot-you-need-the.png


latest

Cmon, two major Zelda games focused on the idea of Link not being a green elf with a sword. :p
 

Circinus

Member
Fine explanation to me. They designed the game with a male hero in mind, so be it, it's their creative freedom that they can choose to express however they wish imho.

The Link character in this game doesn't look like it is significant to the story and could easily be interchangeable I think, so two character options for gender certainly couldn't hurt, but I don't think it's a big deal at all imho.
 

Nerokis

Member
I would be fine with that too, but is having the a female character named Link the most important aspect to you, even if Zelda as the protagonist fulfills every other aspect? She doesn't even need to be the princess necessarily, I'd be fine either way.

Having Link be a girl would be the most seamless way to create a mainline TLoZ game with a female main character. It would fit perfectly into the lore, require no changes to the core Zelda formula, and aside from Link's gender and the subtle differences that could result in, it would allow for a Zelda game to be created from the ground up in such a way that pretty much completely fulfills fan expectations (get a bow, get this blue tunic to breathe better, be the Hero of Time, etc. etc.).

A game featuring Zelda as the main character would call for significant changes to the formula, in my opinion. If they were to eventually go that route, I'd prefer they go all the way and build a game particularly suited to her character.

Besides, Link has a certain place in gaming culture that Zelda just doesn't. Zelda getting her own game would be a big deal, but I think it would be more impactful to see a female Hero of Time. And it would just make so much sense. Having a female protagonist isn't necessarily my overriding motive here (don't really feel the same way about Mario, for example :p), so much as it would be such a missed opportunity not to eventually have a female Link.

Anyway, not trying to fuel the flames of the "should Link be a girl?" debate, especially knowing how fanatical certain people can get over that. Just explaining my version of the "would much prefer female Link to having some other female protagonist" perspective.

Edit: I'm now realizing that I've conflated every Link with the OoT Link by invoking the "Hero of Time" thing. I'm sleepy. You get my point, though.
 
Interesting, so what you want is if you started off as male, green elf Link with a sword, but then can change into female Link by putting on a mask or going into a cursed realm?

"I am honestly trying to think of a time Link wasn't an Elf with a Tunic and a Sword of some sort. "

I was answering a question. :v
 
Interesting, so what you want is if you started off as male, green elf Link with a sword, but then can change into female Link by putting on a mask or going into a cursed realm?

Gender Bender Masked Link sounds like a good way to make an interesting gameplay dynamic. If Zelda can do gender bending with a harp and a scarf so can Link!
 
Having Link be a girl would be the most seamless way to create a mainline TLoZ game with a female main character. It would fit perfectly into the lore, require no changes to the core Zelda formula, and aside from Link's gender and the subtle differences that could result in, it would allow for a Zelda game to be created from the ground up in such a way that pretty much completely fulfills fan expectations (get a bow, get this blue tunic to breathe better, be the Hero of Time, etc. etc.).

A game featuring Zelda as the main character would call for significant changes to the formula, in my opinion. If they were to eventually go that route, I'd prefer they go all the way and build a game particularly suited to her character.

Besides, Link has a certain place in gaming culture that Zelda just doesn't. Zelda getting her own game would be a big deal, but I think it would be more impactful to see a female Hero of Time. And it would just make so much sense. Having a female protagonist isn't necessarily my overriding motive here (don't really feel the same way about Mario, for example :p), so much as it would be such a missed opportunity not to eventually have a female Link.

Anyway, not trying to fuel the flames of the "should Link be a girl?" debate, especially knowing how fanatical certain people can get over that. Just explaining my version of the "would much prefer female Link to having some other female protagonist" perspective.

Edit: I'm now realizing that I've conflated every Link with the OoT Link by invoking the "Hero of Time" thing. I'm sleepy. You get my point, though.
I understand what you're saying, but I don't think putting Zelda into the main role would require as much change to the formula as you think. Zelda is part of the Triforce too, a story could very easily be built around that while still staying true to the series' roots IMO.

As I said, I wouldn't have a problem with a female Link, I just don't understand why it's necessary when we have a perfectly viable candidate in Zelda. And if Link becomes a girl, does that mean Zelda should be a guy? Or does she stay the same? And in either case, does the character still have to play the role of damsel in distress, or sit in the castle all day? That's the more outdated aspect of this situation IMO. We have a capable female hero that's been there since day one that constantly has to play the backseat role in every story, basically just acting as a plot device.
 

Izcarielo

Banned
Forgive my ignorance here, but I missed the part where this interview was conducted by NeoGAF. This sentiment would be more on-point if it was all motivated by us here at Social Justice HQ. But it was an interview conducted by IGN. I think it's important to note that this sentiment isn't just guided by a bunch of whiny, know-nothing internet denizens that are always going to complain about the latest flavor of the month but is actually a part of a larger conversation happening industry-wide at the moment.

Thats ok, but its their game and their idea so they cant do whatever they want.
Its like if i had a popular metal band and lately people were asking me to introduce some electropop on my music. I will do what i want when i want and thats the way i think Nintendo should do (even though i sold my WiiU and cannot stand Nintendo stance in other things)
 
"I am honestly trying to think of a time Link wasn't an Elf with a Tunic and a Sword of some sort. "

I was answering a question. :v

Oh so it had nothing to do with an argument for female Link. Gotcha.

Gender Bender Masked Link sounds like a good way to make an interesting gameplay dynamic. If Zelda can do gender bending with a harp and a scarf so can Link!

Yeah I agree actually, I think it would be pretty cool to have Link's version of Sheik.
 
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