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MrDaravon · Sep 16, 2005

Mama Smurf said:
Alright, so people don't want to read information apparently. Well it's spread out, who can blame them. So here it is:

Here's the main controller:

Pretty obvious generally. What you can't see is that it can detect movement. As Reggie explains:

You can also turn the controller on it's side for a very quick and easy NES controller.

The bottom is an expansion port. This is essential for understanding why it can play half those games you think it can't. More later.

The first and likely main use of the expansion port is for an analogue stick attachment:

What you can't see in this pic is the two triggers below the stick. According to Iwatat's speech, Nintendo plan to pack this attachment in with the system.

With the analogue stick attachment, the Revolution controller has as many buttons easily to hand as a Dual Shock minus the D pad.

For an idea of the size:

That's not the only expansion though. The one we know of makes the controller work for traditional games. Yes, even though for many genres the normal set up doesn't hinder things anyway, Nintendo are still providing a normal controller feel. From Iwata's speech:

What other expansions are to come? Who knows? The good thing about the expansions though is that it can allow so many different games. Worried about your fighters? A 6 button (or whatever) expansion removes all that worry, assuming you're not using an arcade stick anyway.

So is it true that the new set up will make a few genres great and screw the others? Not even close (unless I mention it, I'm talking about the normal controller and analogue stick combo, not even the classic style expansion controller mentioned above):

RPGs - Not a problem.

FPSs - Better than ever.

RTSs - Better than ever.

Fighters - Problem. Easily solved by releasing an add on with face buttons (as many as the game needs, shoulder buttons if it wants it) OR using the classic style expansion controller OR using the arcade sticks you guys seem to love anyway

Platformers - Not a problem.

Racers - Not a problem/better than ever.

Action/adventure - Better than ever.

Flight games - Better than ever.

Puzzlers - Not a problem.

God games/puppy sims - Better than ever.

Music games - Probably needs an extra peripheral but always has. A game like Samba however, you'd just need two normal Revolution controllers.

Party - Not a problem.

Sports - Well...you tell me. Don't play them much. If they'd work, fine. If not, one of these solutions will work. Either a different expansion, or the classic style expansion controller.

Extreme sports - Like the above, except given the Revolution's ability to detect tilt and things, could be better than ever.

Shmups - Not a problem.

I am of course talking in console terms, not PC.

I think that clears up most of the confusion. If anyone suggests anything else, I'll edit.

This post SHOULD be stickied somewhere, but it won't happen due to a certain mod I'm sure

.

You can PUT THIS THING IN A REGULAR CONTROLLER SHELL AND PLAY IT IF YOU DON'T WANT TO USE IT LIKE A MAGIC WAND, EVERYONE WINS, WHAT ARE PEOPLE COMPLANIING ABOUT?

jman2050 · Sep 16, 2005

Dr_Cogent said:
So basically nintendo is focusing on making the user buy a bunch of fucking accessories?

I want one controller. That's it. Buh bye Nintendo - it was nice knowing you.

They won't miss you.

*goes back to playing DS*

..pakbeka.. · Sep 16, 2005

after the initial shock, I'll wait until I see some games to judge, and the acessories, there must be some of of normal controller you can attach the revomote in the back, or something like that, since Ubisoft is STILL porting splinter cell 4 for the rev

Slo · Sep 16, 2005

Zilch said:
From the Eurogamer interview:

Sounds good to me.

Hmm, you'd think if the Rev controller made every existing genre "better than ever", they wouldn't need the old standard controller. It sounds like Nintendo acknowledges that their design is great for what it's intended to do, and could possibly open up new doors in the gaming world, but it pretty much sucks for all the stuff we're already used to.

Interesting.

Dr_Cogent · Sep 16, 2005

jman2050 said:
They won't miss you.

*goes back to playing DS*

Oh, on the contrary, I think they will miss me along with a shit load of other gamers IMO.

Nintendo + Revolution = One step closer to Sega.

neptunes · Sep 16, 2005

There are so much stuff were don't know for people to be making definate decisions. We don't even know the Dimensions and Mass of the contoller.

Wouldn't want a heavy controller sitting within an moderately heavy shell.

And add a botton or two to the main controller.

Ben Sones · Sep 16, 2005

Zerodoppler said:
Yeah. Anyone follow any japanese gaming forum? Would be nice to hear what the initial reaction is over there.

A Japanese friend of mine who is currently at TGS tells me that the both gamers and press at the show went absolutely nuts for it (in the good way).

Acrylamid · Sep 16, 2005

Shogmaster said:
The Gyro won't be moving the character in 3D by itself. It just replaces one of the analog pads.

Yes, that's what I meant. Sure there are games like FPS where you don't move your character with the main analog stick, but for most games it's the standard function.

Shogmaster said:
Halo 2 for instance, would not be possible without few more buttons.

I know, but I'm sure Nintendo will release an attachment that perfectly substitutes the right side of a standard controller with the necessary amount of buttons (and an analog stick).
My point was that this controller doesn't take anything away from old controllers, as the hand with which you move your character (or look around in FPS) can use as many functions as it would with a Dual Shock 2.

belgurdo · Sep 16, 2005

Slo said:
imagination.

So I guess this is what Nfans are going to trot out now whenever someone doesn't agree with all of Nintendo's decisions

Slo · Sep 16, 2005

Mama Smurf said:
You just don't get it, do you? I'm not sitting here thinking up wonderful new ways for these genres to work and then not explaining them. I'm thinking of them how they will work as they already do.

I guess not. I actually think I'm being even handed about this. I'm not overly negative about the controller, I just don't think it's designed for me. I acknowledge that the design is different and has potential to create new genres. I just feel it's dog crap for genres that I like to play right now.

Zilch · Sep 16, 2005

Slo said:
Hmm, you'd think if the Rev controller made every existing genre "better than ever", they wouldn't need the old standard controller. It sounds like Nintendo acknowledges that their design is great for what it's intended to do, and could possibly open up new doors in the gaming world, but it pretty much sucks for all the stuff we're already used to.

Interesting.

I think that's a rather biased analysis of their move.

They're making "normal controller" additions for multiplatform ports and for downloaded classic Nintendo games mainly. I don't think Nintendo is going to want/let developers make normal Revolution games with the "normal controller" attachment.

Maybe you should read the whole interview, you're quite uniformed.

Lo-Volt · Sep 16, 2005

Jim Merrick said:
So there's that option - but even while it's inserted into the classic-style shell, the freehand controller will still be able to sense positioning and so on, so there are more options too.

Hmm...

JJConrad · Sep 16, 2005

The Experiment said:
I think the problem here is how much Nintendo is going to charge for attachments. If they're not dirt cheap or even relatively cheap (under $20 for an attachment), then fuck Nintendo.

The controller looks like Nintendo tried too hard with it but is saved with the attachments idea.

By using the attachments, they might actually be able to keep costs down, when compared to traditional peripherals. If you bought a Namco shooter and wanted the light gun for it. Now, your buying little more than a shell, as the hardware for aiming, transmitting, and rumble aren't included. I'm thinking the attachments won't be expensive, but the remotes will be.

jman2050 · Sep 16, 2005

Dr_Cogent said:
Oh, on the contrary, I think they will miss me along with a shit load of other gamers IMO.

Nintendo + Revolution = One step closer to Sega.

'k

Sapiens · Sep 16, 2005

I didn't want a revolution before I saw this. Now I really do.

I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT.

It just looks so different in a time where the other big two (which I will also support) are just supercharging whats already there (which is fine).

But Revolution will be something I get on day one.

Shogmaster · Sep 16, 2005

MutFox said:
For the extra buttons, you could hold a button down,
let's just say select for the hell of it, then move the controller front or back, for 2 extra buttons.

The possibilities can go on.

That's not a good option for fast action multiplayer FPS. For a single player, sure, but against other players, you'll be dead fast.

Mama Smurf · Sep 16, 2005

I'm not going to go through every genre and list a control scheme that the Revolution can do. That'd be ridiculous. Hopefully for the last time, though I very much doubt it, I'll simply point out some obvious things:

- The controller, with the analogue attachment that Iwata says will come with the system, has the same number of buttons as a Dual Shock minus the D pad. And I'm not talking about buttons you can't reach easily, I'm not even counting those. So the only games that are going to be a problem are those that are so button intensive that they needed to use the D pad too, and there are ways round things like that.

- As it has the same number of buttons as a Dual Shock, and you can play all those games with a Dual Shock...WHY wouldn't you be able to play them on the Revolution?

- It has one analogue stick, like one of the Dual Shocks, AND it has the tilt controls. These can act exactly like a second analogue stick, only it can do so much more on top of that.

- Because of attachments, any game which seems like it'll be rubbish on the controller can be fixed. Fighting games being the main example, just release a 6 button attachment and dadaaa!

- If all of that isn't enough, Nintendo are catering to you anyway by releasing a normal controller shell. Plus the controller shell can still detect motion, so it's like a normal controller+

If that's not enough to convince you the Revolution controller is fine for the games you want to play (and more)...then I guess you just don't want to be convinced.

MutFox · Sep 16, 2005

Shogmaster said:
That's not a good option for fast action multiplayer FPS. For a single player, sure, but against other players, you'll be dead fast.

Why?? You could still move. (Have the Analog + X/Y Axis)
Use it to throw a grenade (faster you thrust forward, further Nade goes)
Or you could use it for something simple, like taunting.

Diffense · Sep 16, 2005

But look at the way the letters are written.
I guess the idea is (/was), that when playing NES-style, these are the standard a and b buttons, but when you hold the controller Revolution-style, they are X and Y to complement the big A and B buttons.

Also, when you hold the controller NES style, The big A button and the B trigger will still be available and you will be able to press them in most of the combinations possible in the SNES diamond layout. In fact, you can press them all much more easily.

Ponn · Sep 16, 2005

Dr_Cogent said:
So basically nintendo is focusing on making the user buy a bunch of fucking accessories?

I want one controller. That's it. Buh bye Nintendo - it was nice knowing you.

IAWTP.

Nintendo is not going to attract anyone to their new console with this except for the normal stable of Nintendo Fans they already have who are already screaming "TEH INNOVATION". How is having to buy accessories for a freaking controller making things "Simpler" for people to get into gaming?? I've played video games for 20 plus years and am not going to "Re-learn" how to play games and get comfortable with using a "remote control wand". First generation I won't be getting a Nintendo console and too bad because I was excited for the downloadable games but they had to screw it up for me with the crazy ass controller shit.

I mean come on, that one picture with Iwata looks like he's holding up a Vibrator with the Rez vibrator hanging off of it. I pass.

Ignatz Mouse · Sep 16, 2005

I don't think there are as many issues with this controller as people are making it out to have, however-- any concern to which the answer is "there could be an add-on for that" is still a concern, in my mind. I truly hope that they include the "classic shell" controller with the system.

Vashu · Sep 16, 2005

..pakbeka.. said:
after the initial shock, I'll wait until I see some games to judge, and the acessories, there must be some of of normal controller you can attach the revomote in the back, or something like that, since Ubisoft is STILL porting splinter cell 4 for the rev

Having trouble reading, good sir?

Nah, just kidding, but it has been confirmed that there will be a shell in which you can slide the Rev controller so that you can play multi-platform games and perhaps the back-catalog.

Ruzbeh · Sep 16, 2005

Ponn01 said:
IAWTP.

Dude, maybe Nintendo will include multiple peripherals with the Revolution as a standard, ever think of that?

Some people are too quick to judge.

sprsk · Sep 16, 2005

Ponn01 said:
IAWTP.

Nintendo is not going to attract anyone to their new console with this except for the normal stable of Nintendo Fans they already have who are already screaming "TEH INNOVATION". How is having to buy accessories for a freaking controller making things "Simpler" for people to get into gaming?? I've played video games for 20 plus years and am not going to "Re-learn" how to play games and get comfortable with using a "remote control wand". First generation I won't be getting a Nintendo console and too bad because I was excited for the downloadable games but they had to screw it up for me with the crazy ass controller shit.

I mean come on, that one picture with Iwata looks like he's holding up a Vibrator with the Rez vibrator hanging off of it. I pass.

A. The analog control comes with the system

B. When was the last time you saw a game where you had to buy the peripheral seperate? Light gun games come with guns, Dance games come with dance pads, Kong came with bongos. duruduuddur!!

I think this does have potential to attract new gamers definitely, god remember how popular the power glove was? and that shit didnt even work! When i was a kid i didnt know a single kid that didnt want one. The more people play and see it the more it will catch on, I mean think how cool sports sims will get with this thing!

use your brians morans!

Shao · Sep 16, 2005

I dont wanna speculate on attachments and prices and whatever, Nintendo deliberately holds back info because otherwise our heads would explode.

I do however think what we've been shown today can host the DEFINATIVE versions of many franchises. Having a classic option is great as some companies don't want to remix games for ports, identical controls for each console suits them and suits gamers and it would be silly to isolate yourselves from all multiplatform games.

However a Rev version of Resi Evil would be so much cooler with this kind of control. Imagine Resi 4 played like this. Silent Hill where you walk around with a flashlight. Then think about what buttons and actions you actually NEED for these kind of experiences and how people can work with them. You can cut out quite a few functions which seemed essential before but were actually rather clumsy and distracted from the immersion.

Only question is power now. Will Resi PS3 win over a Resi Rev with sheer power overcoming interface?

neptunes · Sep 16, 2005

I guess we can all agree that they need to show the shell and Include it with the system.

Kinda like pictochat, include it with the system! >.<

Dr_Cogent · Sep 16, 2005

Ruzbeh said:
Dude, maybe Nintendo will include multiple peripherals with the Revolution as a standard, ever think of that?

Some people are too quick to judge.

Yeah, so we yet more parts to lose, break, whatever. Brilliant.

Ruzbeh · Sep 16, 2005

sp0rsk said:
A. The analog control comes with the system

Nintendo is still deciding on that. And deciding on what or how many peripherals it uses and which ones come with the system.

Shogmaster · Sep 16, 2005

MutFox said:
Why?? You could still move. (Have the Analog + X/Y Axis)
Use it to throw a grenade (faster you thrust forward, further Nade goes)
Or you could use it for something simple, like taunting.

Look at the picture I made. I tried to fit all the essential functions that require immediate reach, and I still failed to map things like reload ammo. You could sacrifice the look function for the moment you are using the hold then choose method, but the fact is that you are going to lacking some buttons for modern shooters like Halo 2 that already uses hold down menthod to add additional use for buttons X and Y.

Even before going into the merits of the gyro implimentation (the responsiveness and precision), the rev controller is already lacking buttons to keep up with the modern games.

sprsk · Sep 16, 2005

Ruzbeh said:
Nintendo is still deciding on that. And deciding on what or how many peripherals it uses and which ones come with the system.

Iwata says int he conference specifically it will be packaged with the system.

xabre · Sep 16, 2005

Shogmaster said:
That's not a good option for fast action multiplayer FPS. For a single player, sure, but against other players, you'll be dead fast.

Oh for petes sake, use the tilt function (left and right) to simulate a couple of more functions.

Sapiens · Sep 16, 2005

Judging by what Ive read so far, Im seeing a DS type curve in the way people will go from doubting the design, dismissing it and then when they finally see developers put it to good use, acceptance.

Certainly there will be developers who have no idea how to use it right and will be releasing standard games with a sensor gimmick thrown in, but the top notch devs will impress us.

This is all obvious though.

genjiZERO · Sep 16, 2005

I think this does have potential to attract new gamers definitely, god remember how popular the power glove was? and that shit didnt even work! When i was a kid i didnt know a single kid that didnt want one.

But how many of those kids actually got one? No one I knew had one.
Anyway, like with the dildorang I'll have to actually use this one before I judge it. It does look interesting though and if Nintendo actually makes good on their innovation then I think they've got a winning project on their hands.

Ponn · Sep 16, 2005

Ruzbeh said:
Dude, maybe Nintendo will include multiple peripherals with the Revolution as a standard, ever think of that?

Some people are too quick to judge.

Well have fun "hoping" they won't screw you over on accessories for your controller. Hey, maybe they will throw them in cereal boxes for you. For me, and I would speculate most of the gaming world, we don't want to have to sit down and assemble our controller before switching games or look like we are ready to give a power back massage or something dirtier everytime we want to play Mario or Metroid. I pass, that is all. Continue with your obligatory fap fest and i'm positive the forums will be split on this for a very long time.

MutFox · Sep 16, 2005

xabre said:
Oh for petes sake, use the tilt function (left and right) to simulate a couple of more functions.

Like looking around corners, a la Call of Duty.

Cauliflower of Love · Sep 16, 2005

Shogmaster said:
That's not a good option for fast action multiplayer FPS. For a single player, sure, but against other players, you'll be dead fast.

Not if they're using the same buttonless remote....er controller. =D

MutFox · Sep 16, 2005

Cauliflower of Love said:
Not if they're using the same buttonless remote....er controller. =D

LOL, SO TRUE! :lol
Plus the Aiming will blow Halo's away,
there's something Halo will lack.

Dr_Cogent · Sep 16, 2005

The should rename the console.

Nintendo Gimmickalution.

Shogmaster · Sep 16, 2005

xabre said:
Oh for petes sake, use the tilt function (left and right) to simulate a couple of more functions.

I don't know what kind of magical gyros you think Nintendo is using, but tilting is exactly how the controller will manipulate the look function. It would be rediculous to expect anything else with the gyro at the same time.

Besides, it's missing a whole lot more than a couple of buttons. In the case of game like Halo 2, it's like 4 or 5.

xabre · Sep 16, 2005

Shogmaster said:
I don't know what kind of magical gyros you think Nintendo is using, but tilting is exactly how the controller will manipulate the look function. It would be rediculous to expect anything else with the gyro at the same time.

Don't take my word for it dude -

"3D Pointing. Sensors understand up, down, left, right, forward and backward.
Tilt Sensitive. Controller can be rotated or rolled from side-to-side.
Buttons Included. Has a trigger on its backside, face buttons, and a D-Pad.
Multifunctional. Has an expansion port which can be used with different types of controller peripherals. Analog stick with two trigger buttons planned for left hand.
Wireless. Totally wire-free. Currently there are no details on the max distance, source or power, or otherwise.
Rumble Built-in. Included as a standard in all the controllers."

http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651275p1.html

Besides, it's missing a whole lot more than a couple of buttons. In the case of game like Halo 2, it's like 4 or 5.

Ooooh no, we can't waste a button on our precious flashlight.

sprsk · Sep 16, 2005

Shogmaster said:
I don't know what kind of magical gyros you think Nintendo is using, but tilting is exactly how the controller will manipulate the look function. It would be rediculous to expect anything else with the gyro at the same time.

Besides, it's missing a whole lot more than a couple of buttons. In the case of game like Halo 2, it's like 4 or 5.

we wont be playing halo on a nintendo system

Shogmaster · Sep 16, 2005

Cauliflower of Love said:
Not if they're using the same buttonless remote....er controller. =D

MutFox said:
LOL, SO TRUE! :lol

I guess you guys still don't get it.... I'm talking about not being able to run away while reloading and such.

Plus the Aiming will blow Halo's away,
there's something Halo will lack.

I will be very surprised if the Rev controller's gyro beats the $100 gyration mouse in precision and responsiveness, and that one sucked at precise aiming for FPS.

sp0rsk said:
we wont be playing halo on a nintendo system

I know, and that's the sad part. Nothing for hardcore competitve gamers anymore it seems. Just nitch and kitsch, kiddies and gimmicks.

Zaphod · Sep 16, 2005

Shogmaster said:
I don't know what kind of magical gyros you think Nintendo is using, but tilting is exactly how the controller will manipulate the look function. It would be rediculous to expect anything else with the gyro at the same time.

Besides, it's missing a whole lot more than a couple of buttons. In the case of game like Halo 2, it's like 4 or 5.

IIRC The controller has pitch and yaw detection as well as x,y,z. Probably done with accelerometers in addition to a gyro, or maybe no gyro at all.

Diffense · Sep 16, 2005

B would obviously be fire for most FPS. Some other button and an upward jerk for reload. I can't imagine the need to look around AND reload since you can't fire anyway and it takes only a second.

The wand has more degrees of motion than you need to aim and fire. Since you'll walk around with the analog attachment you only need 4 directions for aiming and you have roll left, roll right and push/pull for other purposes. In addition, you can change the meaning of every motion with an auxilliary button press. Come to think of it, pull could be reload too.

I don't play FPS so I'm not quite sure what shooter players are accustomed to but I think the applications should be obvious to them.

borghe · Sep 16, 2005

I am just hoping for Mario Party 7 where I actually have to physically beat opponents with the controller to score points.

drohne · Sep 16, 2005

what's with the little black window at the top of the remote, incidentally? it's not...ir, is it? i've never seen an rf device with one of those. it would explain the need for a sensor too. and the 15 foot range. that would be a really pathetic cost-cutting measure, particularly as nintendo were the first console manufacturer to do rf. maybe this has already been covered?

xabre · Sep 16, 2005

Shogmaster said:
I will be very surprised if the Rev controller's gyro beats the $100 gyration mouse in precision and responsiveness, and that one sucked at precise aiming for FPS.

It.is.different.fecking.technology!!!

Diffense · Sep 16, 2005

I don't know much about the technology (and don't really care much at this point) but there's a sensor over the television in Nintendo's implementation. Sounds more like a kind of motion tracking than kirby style tilt detectors to me.

jgkspsx · Sep 16, 2005

I don't see how this can be pure-RF -- RF isn't suitable for position/motion detection in small spaces, much less living rooms. My guess is that the things you place near the TV are infrared beacons, which are picked up by the IR receiver in the controller. The controller extrapolates its own position/rotational velocities and reports them to the system via RF.

..pakbeka.. · Sep 16, 2005

quick thought, how are we supposed to press the d-pad and the big A button at the same time?

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