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Music: Eastern vs Western Devs

F

friday

Member
I find the more ambient soundtracks of western games to be much better than Japanese osts. Off the top of my head, dx:hr, mass effect series, and red dead redemption (no, not the licensed ones) are all top notch.
 
C

Cave Johnson

Member
If every Western composer would be like Jesper Kyd, games would be far more immersive. Hitman 2 title screen is still the best I've heard from him.
 
S

ss-hikaru

Member
I really like Japanese game music, but some western standouts for me would be Child of Light and Banjo-Kazooie. I'm thinking I'll probably like Metal Gear Rising's soundtrack too :)

Disaster Nebraska said:
When they pull it off, though, it's epic. Soundtrack to Total Annihilation comes to mind.
Click to expand...

Oh man I remember being like 7 and taking my dad's CD of the game to put in the CD Player it was sooo good.
 
Soltype

Soltype

Member
SatelliteOfLove said:
Another East vs West music thread, another gaggle of silly billies what ain't know of the wonders that are Gonzalez,
Click to expand...

Gonzalez is good, never liked his SNES stuff though, preferrd his synthesized compositions much more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ-LNuyVHkA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=668WsLql73I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTfKxMQJWzk

Cave Johnson said:
If every Western composer would be like Jesper Kyd, games would be far more immersive. Hitman 2 title screen is still the best I've heard from him.
Click to expand...

He's very talented, just wish he made music in the style he used to, it was very unique.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ5SEMyJVcw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5qP6BpSYHs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfsGUPChLs0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovm6WikALO0&index=14
 
S

Suzushiiro

Banned
I believe it was Pete Davison (formerly of USGamer) who said that the big difference between American and Japanese game music is that American game music tends to be inspired primarily by the soundracks of American movies while Japanese game music tends to be inspired by J-POP, or something like that.

I also personally think that part of the difference is that the Japanese industry has its roots in the games of the 80s and early 90s, where it was impossible to replicate the music created by real instruments so you had to figure out what music worked best for video games and video game hardware, whereas the western game industry didn't really come into its own until the 00s, when hardware was at the point where you could slap in whatever mp3 you wanted for your music, so the inspirations came more from contemporary non-game music and cinema soundtracks.

Hell, in general I think a large part of the difference between Japanese and western video games probably comes from the fact that most Japanese developers have their roots in the games of the 80s and 90s while most western developers played a shitload of the games in that era but didn't start making games themselves until the late 90s/early 00s.

EDIT: And I don't think it's a crazy coincidence that most of the good western tracks people are linking are either from pre-2000 games or from composers who have been doing video game music since pre-2000.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Soltype said:

Gonzalez is good, never liked his SNES stuff though, preferrd his synthesized compositions much better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ-LNuyVHkA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=668WsLql73I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTfKxMQJWzk



He's very talented, just wish he made music in the style he used to, it was very unique.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ5SEMyJVcw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5qP6BpSYHs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfsGUPChLs0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovm6WikALO0&index=14
Click to expand...

He is great on genesis but his modern work cleanly beats it. Blood Money, ACII, and Darksiders 2 are masterful. Also does a lot of good work on Borderlands.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Suzushiiro said:
I believe it was Pete Davison (formerly of USGamer) who said that the big difference between American and Japanese game music is that American game music tends to be inspired primarily by the soundracks of American movies while Japanese game music tends to be inspired by J-POP, or something like that.

I also personally think that part of the difference is that the Japanese industry has its roots in the games of the 80s and early 90s, where it was impossible to replicate the music created by real instruments so you had to figure out what music worked best for video games and video game hardware, whereas the western game industry didn't really come into its own until the 00s, when hardware was at the point where you could slap in whatever mp3 you wanted for your music, so the inspirations came more from contemporary non-game music and cinema soundtracks.

Hell, in general I think a large part of the difference between Japanese and western video games probably comes from the fact that most Japanese developers have their roots in the games of the 80s and 90s while most western developers played a shitload of the games in that era but didn't start making games themselves until the late 90s/early 00s.
Click to expand...

This is just entirely ignoring the PC though.
 
Soltype

Soltype

Member
HK-47 said:
He is great on genesis but his modern work cleanly beats it. Blood Money, ACII, and Darksiders 2 are masterful. Also does a lot of good work on Borderlands.
Click to expand...

I can't say that, his new stuff is no where as impressive.What he did with only 6 4op channels in mind boggling.He has a real passion for electronic music, and it showed up a lot in his older work.Didn't know he did Borderlands, I actually liked a few songs from 2.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Soltype said:
I can't say that, his new stuff is no where as impressive.What he did with only 6 4op channels in mind boggling.He has a real passion for electronic music, and it showed up a lot in his older work.Didn't know he did Borderlands, I actually liked a few songs from 2.
Click to expand...

The Dam Top theme from Bloodshot Rampart is my favorite piece and I believe he worked on that one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4FLi1DFYSc

I think he also did the Wildlife Exploitation Preserve music, which is another suite that stands out in that game.
 
F

Falk

that puzzling face
Suzushiiro said:
I also personally think that part of the difference is that the Japanese industry has its roots in the games of the 80s and early 90s, where it was impossible to replicate the music created by real instruments so you had to figure out what music worked best for video games and video game hardware,
Click to expand...

Even as early as the Genesis and SNES, you had humorous resemblance (if not actual resemblance) to rock and symphonic music, respectively.

Genesis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lXhq66CFS4

SNES: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6763qeuqjE

Examples pulled at random.
 
S

SkyOdin

Member
DocSeuss said:
Yeah, see, I find it really distracting, but I didn't grow up with those games, so I don't suffer from nostalgia.
Click to expand...

So your only counter to my point is to accuse me of being blinded by nostalgia? That's not very mature.

Let's take a classic example from Chrono Trigger. The Magus fight is a pretty iconic moment from a classic ROG, and how it uses music to lead into the fight is superb. When you first enter the room, you can hear some synthesized chanting, as you overhear Magus casting his spell. However, as soon as you approach him, you interrupt the ritual, and the chanting falls silent. The game remains silent as the heroes go through their opening banter with Magus, but as tensions ramp up, two things happen: Magus' theme starts playing (for the first time in the game) and the player loses control over text advancement so that the pacing of the scene will match up to the music. So, the player is treated to this really ominous and slow start to the song to build tension as everyone gears for battle, and then at the very moment the song kicks into high gear the game transitions into the battle. It is a brilliant use of music to set the tone and hype the player up for a climactic fight.

But, apparently my opinions are tainted by childhood nostalgia or something and thus don't count. Okay then, let's look at more recent game. Xenoblade Chronicles has an amazing soundtrack with a distinctive sound that combines traditional string instruments with electric guitars. Alongside a whole slew of awesome exploration themes and emotional cutscene songs, one of its most memorable songs is You Will Know Our Names, a song that plays when you encounter one of the myriad optional named enemies that are scattered around the world. It is a song that gets you pumped up and, perhaps more importantly, serves the gameplay purpose of reinforcing that you are not fighting a normal enemy and shouldn't take this fight lightly.

Now, one of my recent favorite songs is Answers, the main theme song of Final Fantasy XIV. In particular, its use in the End of an Era trailer that served as the ending to the original 1.0 version of FFXIV. The way the music syncs up with the action in the trailer is breath-taking. The lyrics of the song convey a lot of the themes of the game too, and the song is used as a major leitmotif in the game.

Final Fantasy XIV uses music to great effect during boss fights too. One of my favorites is the use of music in the Good King Moggle Mog XII fight. When the fight starts, you are greeted by this Tim-Burton-esque song. It is both a recognizable play on the classic Moogle theme from previous Final Fantasy games, but is somehow both more whimsical and haunting at the same time. However, as you beat the first few Moogles and clear the opening stretch of the fight, the music halts as the Moogles gather together and do a dance as a short playful melody runs. With a big musical flourish, the Good King himself enters the battlefield. There a few short seconds of silence as King Mog charges up an attack, and then this theme starts playing just as the King executes a massive attack against you. I have heard people describe that song as terrifying, since that crazy singing accompanies a battle that quickly descends into pure chaos. That maniacal song suits that crazy fight perfectly, and can become the stuff of nightmares of you start wiping against the King too many times. It's great.

Powerful music is an indispensable part of creating mood and emotion in a videogame, and I think a lot of Japanese developers have mastered its use. Letting music just fade into ambience is a complete waste.
 
Soltype

Soltype

Member
W

Wynnebeck

Banned
Until a Western dev surpasses Yoko Shimomura and Keiichi Okabe, Eastern wins. All bravado and boisterous sounds. No finesse and motif.
 
K

Krejlooc

Banned
Soltype said:
So good, never knew this was on the C64.Only knew of the Genesis/Amiga/SNES tracks.
Click to expand...

Well, first up, the Genesis and Amiga games are different than the SNES games. But beyond that, Turrican was primarily a C64 series. The C64 was the lead platform for the 2 best games in the series, Turrican 1 and 2, being created almost entirely by one man, Manfred Trenz. Trenz also made the NES game Super Turrican (not to be confused with Super Turrican on the SNES) entirely by himself. The entire thing, including music.

Turrican 3 on the C64 is a home brew title from a collection of the top C64 demoscene artists. It is entirely different from Turrican 3 on the Amiga (which is a port of Mega Turrican on the Genesis). Mega Turrican is a pretty big departure from Turrican 1 and 2, and the SNES games are even bigger departures. Turrican 3 on the C64 is made in very close style to Turrican 1 and 2.

Great topic all about Turrican if you're interested. One of the best action series of the 8-bit era, even if it's mostly overlooked by non-europeans.

Level 1-2 of the soundtrack I posted above is so dope, especially coming out of a real C64. It sounds unlike really any other machine. A very unique sound.
 
JordanN

JordanN

Banned
Wynnebeck said:
Until a Western dev surpasses Yoko Shimomura and Keiichi Okabe, Eastern wins. All bravado and boisterous sounds. No finesse and motif.
Click to expand...

Does Michael Jackson count? :p

4fSwvPX.jpg
 
Soltype

Soltype

Member
Krejlooc said:
Well, first up, the Genesis and Amiga games are different than the SNES games. But beyond that, Turrican was primarily a C64 series. The C64 was the lead platform for the 2 best games in the series, Turrican 1 and 2, being created almost entirely by one man, Manfred Trenz. Trenz also made the NES game Super Turrican (not to be confused with Super Turrican on the SNES) entirely by himself. The entire thing, including music.

Turrican 3 on the C64 is a home brew title from a collection of the top C64 demoscene artists. It is entirely different from Turrican 3 on the Amiga (which is a port of Mega Turrican on the Genesis). Mega Turrican is a pretty big departure from Turrican 1 and 2, and the SNES games are even bigger departures. Turrican 3 on the C64 is made in very close style to Turrican 1 and 2.

Great topic all about Turrican if you're interested. One of the best action series of the 8-bit era, even if it's mostly overlooked by non-europeans.

Level 1-2 of the soundtrack I posted above is so dope, especially coming out of a real C64. It sounds unlike really any other machine. A very unique sound.
Click to expand...
I was talking about some of the music Super and Mega/3 shared.I just didn't know they made a version of 3 for the C64, very cool.I played 2 a long time ago, but I don't recall how different it was from Mega/3.Don't remember too much of the little C64 music I heard, only a few tracks from the games I got play stuck with me.I remember one of the Last Ninja games having a pretty good soundtrack.
 
K

Krejlooc

Banned
Soltype said:
I was talking about some of the music Super and Mega/3 shared.I just didn't know they made a version of 3 for the C64, very cool.I played 2 a long time ago, but I don't recall how different it was from Mega/3.Don't remember too much of the little C64 music I heard, only a few tracks from the games I got play stuck with me.I remember one of the Last Ninja games having a pretty good soundtrack.
Click to expand...

Ya, Last Ninja 2 has a pretty awesome soundtrack. All of them do, but there is one track in Last Ninja 2 that I particularly like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hraWQcNbYn8&index=13&list=PL5E751B086CB2C4C5

Those european systems were home to lots of really awesome Synth music that I'd argue many in this topic are saying Western music didn't cover. Ocean's C64 loaders in particular had some awesome tunes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyAd1qKIiXU

The load times may have sucked, but man it gave you a pretty cool show while it loaded..

More euro synth goodness:

Zool 2 - Tootin Common: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJB8lR_MFbA

Lotus Turbo Challenge 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQSsq7HCNHw
 
V

VanillaCakeIsBurning

Member
SkyOdin said:
So your only counter to my point is to accuse me of being blinded by nostalgia? That's not very mature.

Let's take a classic example from Chrono Trigger. The Magus fight is a pretty iconic moment from a classic ROG, and how it uses music to lead into the fight is superb. When you first enter the room, you can hear some synthesized chanting, as you overhear Magus casting his spell. However, as soon as you approach him, you interrupt the ritual, and the chanting falls silent. The game remains silent as the heroes go through their opening banter with Magus, but as tensions ramp up, two things happen: Magus' theme starts playing (for the first time in the game) and the player loses control over text advancement so that the pacing of the scene will match up to the music. So, the player is treated to this really ominous and slow start to the song to build tension as everyone gears for battle, and then at the very moment the song kicks into high gear the game transitions into the battle. It is a brilliant use of music to set the tone and hype the player up for a climactic fight.

But, apparently my opinions are tainted by childhood nostalgia or something and thus don't count. Okay then, let's look at more recent game. Xenoblade Chronicles has an amazing soundtrack with a distinctive sound that combines traditional wind instruments with electric guitars. Alongside a whole slew of awesome exploration themes and emotional cutscene songs, one of its most memorable songs is You Will Know Our Names, a song that plays when you encounter one of the myriad optional named enemies that are scattered around the world. It is a song that gets you pumped up and, perhaps more importantly, serves the gameplay purpose of reinforcing that you are not fighting a normal enemy and shouldn't take this fight lightly.

Now, one of my recent favorite songs is Answers, the main theme song of Final Fantasy XIV. In particular, its use in the End of an Era trailer that served as the ending to the original 1.0 version of FFXIV. The way the music syncs up with the action in the trailer is breath-taking. The lyrics of the song convey a lot of the themes of the game too, and the song is used as a major leitmotif in the game.

Final Fantasy XIV uses music to great effect during boss fights too. One of my favorites is the use of music in the Good King Moggle Mog XII fight. When the fight starts, you are greeted by this Tim-Burton-esque song. It is both a recognizable play on the classic Moogle theme from previous Final Fantasy games, but is somehow both more whimsical and haunting at the same time. However, as you beat the first few Moogles and clear the opening stretch of the fight, the music halts as the Moogles gather together and do a dance as a short playful melody runs. With a big musical flourish, the Good King himself enters the battlefield. There a few short seconds of silence as King Mog charges up an attack, and then this theme starts playing just as the King executes a massive attack against you. I have heard people describe that song as terrifying, since that crazy singing accompanies a battle that quickly descends into pure chaos. That maniacal song suits that crazy fight perfectly, and can become the stuff of nightmares of you start wiping against the King too many times. It's great.

Powerful music is an indispensable part of creating mood and emotion in a videogame, and I think a lot of Japanese developers have mastered its use. Letting music just fade into ambience is a complete waste.
Click to expand...

If we sat down and did some more digging we could find tons of examples of ways that Japanese developers/composers use music in interesting ways. I'm really mystified by statements that Japanese VGM doesn't suit the scenes that they are used in. It's an opinion that's completely divorced from my personal experience with Japanese games since I was young.
 
N

Nanashrew

Banned
For me personally, I like more eastern made music these days because I connect more to melody driven songs than I do to more ambiance driven songs. For movies, it's a similar deal. I still remember much of Jurassic Park's music, Star Wars' music, Indiana Jones music and much more from the 70's/80's/90's over much of what's found today.

I don't honestly believe that a melodic song distracts from what's happening in a scene in a game or movie because for me it only adds to the scene and makes it highly memorable.

I enjoy things like this a lot

Xenoblade - Thoughts to a Friend https://youtu.be/fPtU7aWDdbY

Final Fantasy 6 - Terra's theme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7RPY-oiDAQ

LttP - Dark World https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sslj06K-Nlw

Smash Bros. Vers. - Gerudo Valley https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB3D5WJX5lQ

Twilight Princess - Midna's Lament https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Nq-gEG-E04

Technically not from the games, but still, I love this track from .Hack//SIGN and the Liminality OVAs that came with the games. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2VX290UOLI

There are many, many, many more I can't think of since it's 2 am. I'm just looking at what I had open in tabs or on my shelf.

--

Though, on the subject of ambiance versus melody that I often see in these kinds of threads is that they can work together, but not many seem to bother with it. The Metroid series is one franchise off the top of my head that thrives on ambiatic tones and melodies working in harmony to create distinctions of the varied places while still setting a strong and vivid tone in those varied places and cinematics.
 
O

orthodoxy1095

Banned
Western music. Just so not memorable or unique, amirite? It's all just cinematic shit and all of it sucks. Here's a primer to educate you on how shit it all is:

Sailing on the Wind - Vincent Diamante (Flower)

The Ancient City - Michael Land (The Dig)

Potential For Anything - souleye (VVVVVV)

Icarus - Michael McCann (Deus Ex: HR)

The Bottom Feeders - Darren Korb (Bastion)

Trouble In Jerusalem - Jesper Kyd (Assassin's Creed)

Luchador - (Rayman Legends)

Apotheosis - Austin Wintory (Journey)

Vocum - Guillaume Pervieux (Fly'N)

Chase Through Montmartre - Olivier Derivière (Remember Me)

Arctic Oscillation - Chris Christodoulou (Risk of Rain)

Renaissance Hop - Brian D’Oliveira/Kenneth Young (Tearaway)

Mysterious Guest - Kirill Pokrovsky (Divinity : Original Sin)

Freedom - David Housden (Thomas Was Alone)

Once Upon a Memory - Kao Gan/Laura Shigihara (To The Moon)

Lum King - Christophe Héral (Rayman Origins)

Dreams Of Istanbul - Jesper Kyd (Hitman 2)

Mage Tower - Benny Oschmann (The Book of Unwritten Tales)

Forest Funk - Danny Baranowsky (Super Meat Boy)

River of Life - Paweł Błaszczak (The Witcher)

In Circles - Darren Korb/Ashley Barrett (Transistor)

La Danse Macabre - Jake Kaufman (Shovel Knight)

The Fields of Ard Skellig - Marcin Przybyłowicz (The Witcher 3)

Pilgrims on a Long Journey - Cœur de Pirate (Child of Light)

Home Sweet Home - Christophe Héral (Beyond Good and Evil)

I AM NOT A MORON! - Mike Morasky (Portal 2)

Welcome To Bright Falls - Petri Alanko (Alan Wake)

Dark Flute - Jim Guthrie (Superbrothers: Sword & Sworcery EP)

TEARS - HEALTH (Max Payne 3)

Adventure - Disasterpeace (Fez)

Opening Suite - Martin O'Donnell/Michael Salvatori (Halo: Combat Evolved)

Forever - Stuart Ross/Anne Somerville (GTA 3)

Windmill Hills - David Wise (Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze)

That Cold Place - Mattias Hakulinen/Pontus Askbrink (Ittle Dew)

Space Cruise - Ben Prunty (FTL)

Cider Time - Terence Lee (DustForce)

Main Theme - Andy Hale (L.A. Noire)

Ride Out the Storm - Jon Hallur (EVE Online)

Ellen's Exploration - John Ottman (I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream)

The Chairman Dances: Foxtrot for Orchestra - John Adams (Civilization 4)

Will The Circle Be Unbroken - A. Habershon/C. Gabriel Courtnee Draper (Bioshock Infinite)

Cycling - Vincent Diamante (Cloud)

Return - Austin Wintory (flOw)

Where Is It Going? - Jasper Byrne (Lone Survivor)

Closer to God - Tilman Sillescu (ANNO 2070)

Too Many To Kill Them All - Michal Cielecki/Krzysztof Wierzynkiewicz (Bulletstorm)

Prisman Holiday - John Guscott (de Blob 2)

Complexity - Paul Taylor (Frozen Synapse)

The Path (A New Beginning) - Gustavo Santaolalla (The Last of Us)

Born Unto Trouble - Bill Elm/Woody Jackson (Red Dead Redemption)

Whoa I'm In Space Cuba - Jake Kaufman (Mighty Switch Force)

Theme Of Yuri - SonicPicnic (AwesomeNauts)

juchu - DVA (Botanicula)

Ascension - Jessica Curry (Dear Esther)

Final Confrontation - Óscar Araujo (Castlevania: Lords of Shadow)

Ein Leben in Ordnung und Zufriedenheit - Finn Seliger/Thomas Hohl (Deponia)

City Streets 1 - Jake Kaufman (Double Dragon Neon)

Cirromon Caverns - HyperDuck SoundWorks/Alex Brandon (Dust: An Elysian Tail)

Discothéque Rouge - Austin Wintory (Monaco)

Unfinished Swan - Joel Corelitz (The Unfinished Swan)

Alive Inside - Jared Emerson-Johnson (The Walking Dead)

Strewn Across the Bridge - Austin Wintory (The Banner Saga)

Heavyrauser - Jukio "Kozilek" Kallio (Luftrausers)

We Love Burning Town - Jake Kaufman (Shantae and the Pirate's Curse)

Virgo Serena - Damjan Mravunac (The Talos Principle)

Main Theme 2 - Peter McConnell & Daniel Teper (Valiant Hearts: The Great War)

Frontier - James Marsden (Velocity 2x)

Ransacked - Mick Gordon (Wolfenstein: The New Order)

Ori, Lost In the Storm - Gareth Coker/feat. Aeralie Brighton/Rachel Mellis/Tom Boyd (Ori and the Blind Forest)

Promethean - Geoff Knorr/Griffin Cohen/Michael Curran/Grant Kirkhope (Civilization: Beyond Earth)

Agamemnon Rising - Jason Graves (The Order: 1886)

Trace Rising - Thomas Happ (Axiom Verge)

Disco Descent - Danny Baranowsky (Crypt of the NecroDancer)

Main Menu - Jonathan Morali (Life is Strange)

Return of the Sixth World - Marshall Parker/Gavin Parker/Sam Powell/Jon Everist (Shadowrun Returns)

NYC Streets - Alexander Brandon (Deus Ex)

Oldsong - Justin Bell (Pillars of Eternity)

Nuclear Mission Jam - Kelly Bailey (Half-Life)

The Office - Jared Emerson-Jonhson (Sam and Max Save the World)

Turrican 2 Theme - Chris Huelsbeck (Turrican 2)

Since this thread is all about silly generalizations, I might as well share that I have this feeling that people shitting on Western music either A) don't play Western games or B) think they can use modern AAA titles as a scapegoat for their preferences and ignore everything else that has come out of the West. The amount of amazing OSTs that you can find in Western games is truly staggering. To write this post, I spent three hours going through my YouTube playlists listening to tracks I had saved and I barely scratched the surface of what I've saved over the years.
 
iNvid02

iNvid02

Member
heres a generalization for ya: just like the games themselves the most exciting things happening in video game music come from the west now
 
G

Grep

Banned
Megalosaro said:
Japan:
- Koichi Sugiyama
- Nobuo Uematsu
- Masashi Hamauzu
- Kenji Ito
- Hitoshi Sakimoto
- Yasunori Mitsuda
- Hirokazu Tanaka
- Koji Kondo
- Yoko Shimomura
- Go Shina
- Shogo Sakai

Western:
- Michael Giacchino (if he still counts)
- Jake Kaufman
Click to expand...

Pardon my ignorance, but why Susumu Hirasawa is not on this list?

Isnt he one of the big guys when it comes to Japanese music?

Berserk anyone?
 
D

Dio

Banned
Megalosaro said:
Japan:
- Koichi Sugiyama
- Nobuo Uematsu
- Masashi Hamauzu
- Kenji Ito
- Hitoshi Sakimoto
- Yasunori Mitsuda
- Hirokazu Tanaka
- Koji Kondo
- Yoko Shimomura
- Go Shina
- Shogo Sakai

Western:
- Michael Giacchino (if he still counts)
- Jake Kaufman
Click to expand...

For the Japanese side, don't forget Ryo Yonemitsu, Yuzo Koshiro, Yuki Kajiura and Keiichi Okabe.
 
W

Wynnebeck

Banned
iNvid02 said:
heres a generalization for ya: just like the games themselves the most exciting things happening in video game music come from the west now
Click to expand...

Which is why some of the most exciting announcements coming from E3 this year were remakes of classic Eastern games or new entries into Eastern games right?
 
G

Guerrillas in the Mist

Member
Never really got the "western music is shit" generalisation. It's incredibly lazy, as even the briefest glance beyond the likes of Modern Warfare 3 brings up a massive range of talented composers with a variety of styles.

orthodoxy1095 said:
Western music. Just so not memorable or unique, amirite? It's all just cinematic shit and all of it sucks. Here's a primer to educate you on how shit it all is:

*snip*

Since this thread is all about silly generalizations, I might as well share that I have this feeling that people shitting on Western music either A) don't play Western games or B) think they can use modern AAA titles as a scapegoat for their preferences and ignore everything else that has come out of the West. The amount of amazing OSTs that you can find in Western games is truly staggering. To write this post, I spent three hours going through my YouTube playlists listening to tracks I had saved and I barely scratched the surface of what I've saved over the years.
Click to expand...

Really says it better than I can.
 
artsi

artsi

Member
I've never really liked western game music as much as eastern, but a positive exception has been Witcher 3 and I think it has a nice, distinct style.

To me the video game music gods are Akira Yamaoka, Shoji Meguro, Nobuo Uematsu and Yoko Shimomura.
 
petran79

petran79

Banned
Disaster Nebraska said:
Man, y'all need to play more old-school PC games.
Click to expand...

especially if there is no language barrier like with Japanese composers.
You can find interesting info. I liked the fact that western PC games often lacked the discipline and quality control of Japanese console or arcade games. So stuff that would be edited out, found its way on computers. The Wild West approach produced some memorable soundtracks

like this guy

http://www.danfroelich.com/videogamemusic.htm

In 1991, I had the good fortune of getting a gig writing music for Epic Megagames' first platform game, Jill of the Jungle. This game was a huge hit for Epic! Jill was an early 256-color VGA game that ran in DOS and supported the (at the time) new SoundBlaster card from Creative Labs. The SoundBlaster card was an evolutionary step forward from the popular Adlib music card as it added a digital sample playback chip (for sound effects) to the Yamaha FM chip that was also on the Adlib unit. For music composition purposes, I wrote for the Yamaha FM chip using Adlib's Visual Composer program. While it was like composing music with a bar of soap and a spreadsheet, the program offered lots of flexibility and power.

I've heard a number of the original game songs converted to run on modern computer sound systems, but the instrument sounds weren't very close to the Yamaha FM chip sounds. Recently, I unearthed a copy of Adlib Visual Composer and all of my original ROL files for the first Jill of the Jungle game from 1992. I've recorded them into ProTools, and included the MP3s below. Enjoy!

this approach characterizes a lot of western games at that time:

http://knowyourmeme.com/forums/video-games/topics/33777-mimu-reviews-jill-of-the-jungle

Some critters seem to have been designed as a joke, such as the bright green, spindly-legged insects that appear to be the handiwork of a six year old. The “giant green lizard men” that are given top billing in episode three are neither green, nor particularly giant. The bestiary is by and large pretty dull, and it is likely the result of Epic not having a professional artist on their staff at the time. The development team was only four people, two of whom were credited under artwork; it’s more likely these were personal connections, rather than scouted talent.

The music is the high point of the game. Dan Froelich did a spectacular job with the score -- despite the limitations of FM Synthesis, he was able to craft a memorable and catchy soundtrack. Some music is high-energy and fast-paced, others slower, ominous, and even by modern standards outright unnerving. The volume is a touch inconsistent, but each track fits its respective level quite well.

The sound choice is perplexing. Most make logical sense, such as a springing sound for jumping, or an exaggerated woosh for throwing a weapon; others seem bizarrely random, such as elevators that loudly roar when you ride them. Many sounds inexplicably change between episodes, even for staple actions such as throwing a knife, to the point where the mixing borders on the annoying. As some actions such as knife-throwing can be rapidly repeated, certain noises tend to grow old fast.

But realistically, this game was likely the result of four guys working out of Tim Sweeney’s house. They seemed to be creating a game in which they were compensating for lack of experience by just taking as many interesting ideas as they could and throwing them together.

The guys at Epic, despite lacking discipline, threw all this stuff together, got it out into the world, and hoped for the best. Somehow, it worked.

Nowadays a game of this nature wouldn’t stand much of a chance outside of the indie market, but for its time it was pretty fresh. Looking at it now sans nostalgia goggles, I can’t say I’d want to pay for this game if I were introduced to it now; it probably wouldn’t even hold my attention for very long. For its time, though, it’s pretty darn cool.
 
A

Agremont

Member
I don't really play any eastern games except for Gran Turismo but there's a lot of rememberable western soundtracks for me. If I like music in a game it echoes in my head all day. Even if it's ambient music. Like even if it's REALLY ambient. The kind of music that seems to hardly even register with most people.

A few favorite soundtracks of mine:
The homeworld series, especially the first game.
The STALKER series.
Grim Fandango.
Civilization V
 
Z

zoukka

Member
Diablo 2
Starcraft

I love Japanese game music more than most, but you have plenty of gold in the west too. I will say however that modern western game music seems to a bit too much geared towards movie soundtracks. Japanese games still have that unique distinct feel to them.
 
I

Ikael

Member
Modern western game design's philosophy of "but what I really wanted to do is to direct Hollywood movies, not stupid videogames" does transpire into its music, unfortunately, at least on its AAA titles.

That being said, this doesn't makes it bad music at all. Movie soundtracks can be awesome indeed, like anyone who have listened to Morricone can assure you, and movie-inspired videogame osts can be memorable too, like the O'Donnel prooves.

But by having this hollywood fixation, that type of videogame music end up resulting lots of times in generic, unremarkable pieces, which is a hell of a negative for any kind of artistic endeavour in my book. And like another fellow poster said, letting videogame music to become relegated to a mere "ambience" background noise with no agency nor weight of its own, acting subservient to the image as it happens on the movies, accompaning, rather than reinforcing the player's actions trought synestesia, is a criminal waste.

Only when western composers deviate from that type of vainilla formula (dynamic movie soundtrack modified by player actions) they can truthly shine, hence why the greatest western videogame osts tends to belogn to indie games (Bastion, Journey, Hotline Miami, Knytt, etc) or from older games before the "AAA era" of "cinematic experiences" arrived (MDK, Homeworld, etc) while Japanese big productions tends to have OSTs with a far more unique personality than their western big-budget counterparts, even nowadays (Nier and Splatoon's osts comes to mind).
 
Riposte

Riposte

Member
I don't know what bothers me most: generalizations about the east, generalizations about the west, or generalizations about movies. I'm clearly a masochist for having read this whole thread.

Guerrillas in the Mist said:
Never really got the "western music is shit" generalisation. It's incredibly lazy, as even the briefest glance beyond the likes of Modern Warfare 3 brings up a massive range of talented composers with a variety of styles.
Click to expand...

MW3 was very disappointing after MW2.
 
F

Falk

that puzzling face
Riposte said:
I don't know what bothers me most: generalizations about the east, generalizations about the west, or generalizations about movies. I'm clearly a masochist for having read this whole thread.



MW3 was very disappointing after MW2.
Click to expand...

I don't know exactly what you think about the generalizations, but MW2 sounded -exactly- like a film score. A Hans Zimmer film score.

(This isn't a bad thing, mind you. Fit the game perfectly. Last thing you want when shooting Brazilian gangsters and Russian gulag security is arpeggiated synths playing)
 
F

Falk

that puzzling face
As far as MW, or CoD goes, nothing really tops CoD4 for me. Harry Gregson-Williams work on it was sublime. It dipped itself really, really hard into the action movie bisque, yet is enough of its own thing that it's instantly distinguishable from action movies in general and even Gregson-Williams' other work, video game or film alike.

Haven't had the time to sit down and listen to Advanced Warfare yet (which had Gregson-Williams returning), since I intend to play that (and Ghosts lol) campaign at some point when they hit bargain bin prices. As opposed to games I don't intend to play and I have no reason not to grab the soundtracks to take out for a spin.
 
Z

zoobzone

Member
Eastern music for me.

The only memorable music from the west for me was from Blizzard, but they lost touch after Warcraft 3. WoW, SC2 and D3 pretty much only has ambient sound that plays in the background. (minus a few exceptional tracks)
 
F

friday

Member
zoobzone said:
Eastern music for me.

The only memorable music from the west for me was from Blizzard, but they lost touch after Warcraft 3. WoW, SC2 and D3 pretty much only has ambient sound that plays in the background. (minus a few exceptional tracks)
Click to expand...


You are kidding right? WoW and its expansions have some of the best soundtracks in gaming.
 
Nikodemos

Nikodemos

Member
Funny how people claim Western composers tend to make formulaic movie music. To my ears, this is what Eastern game music sounds like. Generic high-tempo orchestral, generic high-tempo electro-rock-pop, generic high-tempo electro-rock-pop with orchestral bits. Ironically, several Western composers have started gravitating towards this some while ago.

The way I see it, Eastern composers have three considerable weaknesses (IMNSHO): ambiental music, dynamic music and leitmotif music. Action music is solid, but lacks variety.
 
V

VanillaCakeIsBurning

Member
iNvid02 said:
heres a generalization for ya: just like the games themselves the most exciting things happening in video game music come from the west now
Click to expand...

The way this thing works is that you can mostly take anything someone has said about Western music and apply it to the East and vice versa since it's based on subjective experience.

Like the statement you just made in this post, in my case the most exciting games and music are coming from Japan right now. Funny how that works.

Falk's point about many orchestras/concerts/bands/events being focused on Japanese VGM was interesting to me. That's something I never really payed attention to but in hindsight I realize how many I've heard of that just dealt with or focused on Japanese music.
 
P

Parsnip

Member
I find it entirely pointless to try and box game music in an east vs west debate. Game music is so incredibly varied on all "sides" that these sweeping generalizations in this thread just seem like a disservice towards the medium as a whole.


Also FF7 soundtrack and Nobuo Uematsu in general are overrated. :p
 
O

orthodoxy1095

Banned
Guerrillas in the Mist said:
Never really got the "western music is shit" generalisation. It's incredibly lazy, as even the briefest glance beyond the likes of Modern Warfare 3 brings up a massive range of talented composers with a variety of styles.
Click to expand...
It's incredibly lazy because the people saying it generally are focusing only on the big-budget mainstream titles. Case in point, dumb shit like this:
Chuck Norris said:
Eastern Devs aim to make amazing game soundtracks. Western Devs aim to make amazing movie soundtracks
Click to expand...
Even if we concede that those are shit (and I don't), then we've still got thousands of hours of music from smaller studios and from indie devs.

Glad you liked the list though.
 
F

Forkball

Member
The Witcher 3 had one of the best soundtracks I've heard in a long time. I do think the sheer breadth and volume of Japanese game music is difficult to match though. I mean think of how many songs the Final Fantasy series has alone.
 
C

CraigerGamer

Member
orthodoxy1095 said:
It's incredibly lazy because the people saying it generally are focusing only on the big-budget mainstream titles. Case in point, dumb shit like this:

Even if we concede that those are shit (and I don't), then we've still got thousands of hours of music from smaller studios and from indie devs.

Glad you liked the list though.
Click to expand...
But the western indie scene stepping it up in the music department is just my point. The AAA western devs view music differently because they have other tools at their disposal to create atmosphere. Its not coincidental then, that, like Japanese devs, Western indies use music to set the tone of the game instead of just supporting it.
 
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