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GTA V PS4/XONE Downgrade - Version 1.00 Vs 1.08 Comparison [edit: BUG]

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Not at all. The game wasn't 'downgraded', as much as they make some compromises in order to improve another important area of the game. It was never 'broken', either. This must be one of the most exaggerated and watered down uses of the term I've seen yet.

Graphically the game has clearly been objectively downgraded, whether by bugs or intentional, even if upgrades are seen in other areas. Compromising isn't fair when negative changes are noticable (if they weren't, threads like this wouldn't exist), and no option is given to users who have already paid to own the game to revert back to an original state.
 

DOWN

Banned
Not at all. The game wasn't 'downgraded', as much as they make some compromises in order to improve another important area of the game. It was never 'broken', either. This must be one of the most exaggerated and watered down uses of the term I've seen yet.

Saying it didn't even "run fine" is pretty exaggerated and disingenuous on your part, too. That's not reflective of the reception this port received from press or players, predominantly over technical differences from the last gen releases. The game was notably less compromising on frame rate for graphical fidelity on the current gen releases and has been praised for it. Preferring a different compromise than the ones they've made over framerate doesn't justify mischaracterizing their motivations for patching of this nature.
 

Plasma

Banned
Yet I don't see a single person saying they'd noticed the lack of POM...

Most people didn't notice that the trees didn't sway either, doesn't really excuse it. They sold this game on it looking nicer you can't just take those features away.

Hopefully it's just an oversight and it gets fixed in the next patch.
 

Mabufu

Banned
Not at all. The game wasn't 'downgraded', as much as they make some compromises in order to improve another important area of the game. It was never 'broken', either. This must be one of the most exaggerated and watered down uses of the term I've seen yet.


People here in this thread were saying they'd noticed(past tense) a performance improvement.

Yet I don't see a single person saying they'd noticed the lack of POM...

There's also people who noticed some agressive pop-in and were wondering if that was their imagination : /

Some eyes are more trained than others I guess.
 
Whoa. This is super shitty. I don't have the game anymore but I feel for those who play it a lot. Rockstar fucked this up. I hope they get an earful.
 
Just shows you how limited these consoles are.

LowQualityBait.jpg

That said, I think this is the last R* game I get for a while (failing a Table Tennis sequel). People (rightly) railed on 343 and Ubisoft for Halo MCC and Unity being broken on launch, but you know what, at least those games are pretty much working as intended now. GTA V has been delayed, delayed, then delayed again. Patches keep fucking breaking things. This shitty remaster cost a full £55 (£10 more than Forza Horizon 2 launched at), and they still plan on re-releasing it again! Heists became a joke on a joke. GTA Online is one of the grindiest grindfests going, with the online itself being ridiculously unstable. I spent an hour with a friend trying to get into the same lobby (both had open NAT), but we ran into error message after error message. In the end we gave up and played Dying Light.

Rant over. Fuck R*. I know they make compelling games, but there's only so much shit I can put up with on limited time.
 

KKRT00

Member
Hmm, didnt know that they added PoM to the game,even though the implementation is not that good, but it is still a big improvement over flat textures.
 

Aske

Member
Was finding it pretty tedious so it was on my backburner. I feel like I have so little freedom in this game...it's like the antithesis of how the GTA3 experience felt back in the day. Guess I won't worry about picking it up again until after this is fixed, but with RE Revelations 2 coming out of nowhere, Bloodborne, Mortal Kombat, DMC 4 SE, Onechanbara, and all the other stuff on the way...who knows. Maybe I'll give it another try on a rainy day. I haven't even unlocked Trevor yet; really not far in. Characters and city design are great; I just feel like the game is so rigid. So far, it feels like an interactive movie in the worst way.
 

DryvBy

Member
LowQualityBait.jpg

That said, I think this is the last R* game I get for a while (failing a Table Tennis sequel). People (rightly) railed on 343 and Ubisoft for Halo MCC and Unity being broken on launch, but you know what, at least those games are pretty much working as intended now. GTA V has been delayed, delayed, then delayed again. Patches keep fucking breaking things. This shitty remaster cost a full £55 (£10 more than Forza Horizon 2 launched at), and they still plan on re-releasing it again! Heists became a joke on a joke. GTA Online is one of the grindiest grindfests going, with the online itself being ridiculously unstable. I spent an hour with a friend trying to get into the same lobby (both had open NAT), but we ran into error message after error message. In the end we gave up and played Dying Light.

Rant over. Fuck R*. I know they make compelling games, but there's only so much shit I can put up with on limited time.

The remaster isn't garbage by any means. The only thing garbage about the online is the stupid load times.
 

Seanspeed

Banned
Graphically the game has clearly been objectively downgraded, whether by bugs or intentional, even if upgrades are seen in other areas. Compromising isn't fair when negative changes are noticable (if they weren't, threads like this wouldn't exist), and no option is given to users who have already paid to own the game to revert back to an original state.
The game as a whole hasn't been downgraded. Specific little parts were, in order to upgrade other parts. Obviously whether you feel the net effect is positive or negative depends on preferences, but to say the 'game was downgraded' is too narrow a view of this, in my opinion.

And why aren't the compromises fair? The performance increase seems to have been 'noticeable' for some, but not the lack of POM, for instance. The negative changes seem to mostly be noticeable because somebody has made a video detailing them, not because they are just that noticeable.

Ignorance is always bliss and I feel the outcry here is more that they are seeing the compromises first-hand rather than it happening behind the scenes. Its something any PC gamer deals with on a regular basis though, so its hardly this dastardly thing where people are just being screwed over or something. I think its ok to be upset if you'd prefer the graphics over performance and just don't like the compromises made, but I feel that this is being sold as some general downgrade or whatever, and there's no denying that the #downgrade buzz has been very strong over the past year or so and people are quite triggered by mention of it.

Saying it didn't even "run fine" is pretty exaggerated and disingenuous on your part, too. That's not reflective of the reception this port received from press or players, predominantly over technical differences from the last gen releases. The game was notably less compromising on frame rate for graphical fidelity on the current gen releases and has been praised for it. Preferring a different compromise than the ones they've made over framerate doesn't justify mischaracterizing their motivations for patching of this nature.
Its subjective what a person means by 'fine', but what I meant by my post is that there was room for improvement as plenty of people reported annoyance at framerate drops during traffic. I was not saying the game ran horribly or anything before.
 
And there is no way to revert back to version 1.00? I've done the Heists now, I wouldn't mind going back temporarely to 1.00 even if t would mean that online doesn't work.
Is it in any way possible that it could just be a bug? Rockstar should definitely inform us more about it, this is litterally taking away stuff from the game that we've known to love, just to compensate a tiny small boost in performence.
 

Seanspeed

Banned
Maybe the mp graphics carry over to sp? A bug maybe..
Possible.

Also possible that certain things were intended to be compromised, but other areas got inadvertently cut, too.

We'll see. I imagine this will get enough of a buzz that Rockstar will comment or do something about it. It might just be smarter to say fuck it, and go back to the way it was and say it was all a bug or something. Simply for the purposes of good will, even if the backlash wasn't rational. As somebody who has done plenty of customer service work before, that is often the best course of action.
 

Yoshi88

Member
Same here :/

Yup, me too.

So all of the gorgeous screenshots i've seen from the next-gen verisons in the screenscot-thread here, that slowy built up my interest and made me think "wow, this really IS a nice looking open world for once" took a deep hit and now look quite different? (The rail tracks really hit the point home)

I'm no graphics>gameplay type at all, but somehow, as a potential buyer, i feel scammed already. Why should i inform myself about the game or look at the cover pictures in the store now, when i can't even be sure, what i'll be looking at in 3 weeks after buying the game? This is sad.
 
"optimization"

People, that word sometimes means "taking away" cetain effects, downgrading features, or reducing resolutions to improve framerate. Either that, or an oversign they had somehow makes POM no longer render... and instead just a normal map. Part of me feels that that is an unrealistic expectation.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
And why aren't the compromises fair?

Compromises to something like technology and presentation without option to toggle are not fair as they dismiss a portion of your paid customers who may have bought the product influenced by those now reduced factors. You're righting in saying "the game was downgraded" is not an objective statement when the game has partially been upgraded. But that's the point; it's obviously a spectrum of components, and while one part has been arguably upgraded (arguably as in I personally don't know the framerate boost), another part has been downgraded. It's measurable.

And that same spectrum applies to your customers and potential customers. Not everybody who paid for the game is going to give a shit about framerate, even if some do enough to endorse downgrading presentation for performance. Both parties are ideally pandered to, but stuff like this due to the lack of option toggle panders to only one group at the cost of the other. That is why the compromise is not fair; it asks a group who may have bought the product for reasons specifically tied to exactly what was compromised (notability of downgrade aside) to suck it up for the other group who didn't give a shit in the first place.

Imagine this argument was the other way around; Rockstar patched in a longer draw distance, improved shadow rendering, and a few other bells and whistles at the cost of framerate. While yes an argument can be made that framerate is objectively more important to gameplay, not everybody who bought the game is going to give a shit and instead finds the framerate perfectly playable. Yet you'd still have a group upset that technology and graphics were buffed at the compromise of performance. And they'd be just as right to be upset that the product they paid money for has been downgraded in an area they find important.
 

Plasma

Banned
Its something any PC gamer deals with on a regular basis though, so its hardly this dastardly thing where people are just being screwed over or something.

PC gamers have a choice with their settings, if they wanted to go performance over graphics they can choose to do so. Whereas this change is forced onto people whether they like it or not.
 
Didn't notice the "downgrade" but I instantly noticed the frame rate improvement. I approve.
You really didn't noticed the collisions and lack of damage to the vehicles? GTA being a game where you drive more than half of the time, I think it was the very first thing of those things mentionned that I noticed.

You can't downplay something like that. It really is a downgrade.
 
Not at all. The game wasn't 'downgraded', as much as they make some compromises in order to improve another important area of the game. It was never 'broken', either. This must be one of the most exaggerated and watered down uses of the term I've seen yet.


People here in this thread were saying they'd noticed(past tense) a performance improvement.

Yet I don't see a single person saying they'd noticed the lack of POM...

It doesn't matter if the scale goes from 10 to 1, when something is omitted, even by a small degree is classified as a 'downgrade'. Also, the context of 'broken' is not an exaggeration as you interpret it to be, rather it is an observation of aspects to form a conclusive argument pertaining to a particular issue; in this case, the "car damage = performance". This twisting of my statements are too extreme from your point of view.
 

Dennis

Banned
This is just insane to me. How can you downgrade the visuals of a game you already sold people?

If owned a console copy of GTA V I would be losing my shit so hard.

Can people choose not to download the patch?
 

Kezen

Banned
I think it's too big of a downgrade to be intentional, it must be a bug.
If they can screw up so badly on single-specced platforms I dread to think what will happen to the PC version.
 
This is fucked up. Not only was the version pre-downgrade clearly playable but also the fact that this is so long after release.

And worse than last gen car physics? Has to be a mistake.
 
I'm willing to bet this was just an accident. The game probably has user-definable graphical settings for the upcoming PC version, so it wouldn't surprise me if when they rolled this patch out, they accidentally included the graphical settings definition file for the 360/PS3 version by mistake.

Like, jeeze. Before you go beating your chest about how Rockstar "saved you money" or how this vindicates the PC version, maybe, like, wait a couple weeks and give them a chance to acknowledge it might just have been a mixup?
 

Seep

Member
When did the update go live? I was playing a few days ago, and at one point specifically Looking for frame drops as I drove around. Didn't notice any.

With the heist update I think, about a week ago.


You really didn't noticed the collisions and lack of damage to the vehicles? GTA being a game where you drive more than half of the time, I think it was the very first thing of those things mentionned that I noticed.

You can't downplay something like that. It really is a downgrade.

Vehicle damage is clearly a unintended bug and collisions are fine for me.
 

Synless

Member
Why the fuck would they downgrade a game that already ran and looked great? I will never play the game with this patch.
 

Seanspeed

Banned
Compromises to something like technology and presentation without option to toggle are not fair as they dismiss a portion of your paid customers who may have bought the product influenced by those now reduced factors. You're righting in saying "the game was downgraded" is not an objective statement when the game has partially been upgraded. But that's the point; it's obviously a spectrum of components, and while one part has been arguably upgraded (arguably as in I personally don't know the framerate boost), another part has been downgraded. It's measurable.

And that same spectrum applies to your customers and potential customers. Not everybody who paid for the game is going to give a shit about framerate, even if some do enough to endorse downgrading presentation for performance. Both parties are ideally pandered to, but stuff like this due to the lack of option toggle panders to only one group at the cost of the other. That is why the compromise is not fair; it asks a group who may have bought the product for reasons specifically tied to exactly what was compromised (notability of downgrade aside) to suck it up for the other group who didn't give a shit in the first place.

Imagine this argument was the other way around; Rockstar patched in a longer draw distance, improved shadow rendering, and a few other bells and whistles at the cost of framerate. While yes an argument can be made that framerate is objectively more important to gameplay, not everybody who bought the game is going to give a shit and instead finds the framerate perfectly playable. Yet you'd still have a group upset that technology and graphics were buffed at the compromise of performance. And they'd be just as right to be upset that the product they paid money for has been downgraded in an area they find important.
Its not true that 'the other group' didn't give a shit in the first place. For one, many people will have bought the game without having read a Digital Foundry article on the game or hearing about the framerate drops. Two, its possible that even if you did know, you might still buy it because you can live with it. I certainly don't reject every single game just because it has one thing I might not like about it.

I get your point that some people may have bought this for the things that got downgraded, but c'mon, lets step back from the ideal of the argument and ask ourselves - how many people were pushed over the edge into buying specifically because of these things? I cant imagine its anything but a seriously, seriously tiny minority. So I'm not really buying that argument. I mean, nobody really noticed this stuff til it was pointed out. The downgrades, at least. Was it really that important to everyone? I'm not saying it would have remained forever unnoticeable, but we're not talking about a drastic cutback that suddenly makes the game look bad or else other people would have noticed it already.

And obviously there would be a point where this sort of thing would be a bit crappy. But its a pretty grey area to me. Not necessarily perfectly right, not necessarily completely wrong. I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt that everybody upset by this are doing it out of some well thought out aversion to the principles you've outlined here, but I seriously think much of it is just because the reaction to the term 'downgrade' nowadays results in almost instantaneous backlash.

And I do agree options would be best.
 

Daffy Duck

Member
I can say though that as far as car damage for broken wheels/axles that still works, because I played on Saturday (on patch 1.08) and when I crashed my car it bent the wheel and broke it so it just dragged on the road.
 

Seanspeed

Banned
It doesn't matter if the scale goes from 10 to 1, when something is omitted, even by a small degree is classified as a 'downgrade'. Also, the context of 'broken' is not an exaggeration as you interpret it to be, rather it is an observation of aspects to form a conclusive argument pertaining to a particular issue; in this case, the "car damage = performance". This twisting of my statements are too extreme from your point of view.
I don't know even know what you just said man. I didn't twist anything you said. You said making these changes would mean they released the game 'broken' before. That term used to mean game-breaking flaws or bugs, but its been so watered down now that seemingly any small flaw in a game can be grounds to call a game 'broken'. The term has lost all meaning in this outrage obsessed gaming culture.
 
I'm not trying to troll, but I really don't see a downgrade. The images look a bit different yes, but in the 1.00 to 1.08 comparison shots the gamer is standing in a slightly different location looking at a slightly different angle and so the perspective is slightly different, possibly revealing details/blemishes you could not see before. If there is a difference between the two versions, I need to see it in person, I can never tell from a youtube video.
 

lentini

Member
This is just insane to me. How can you downgrade the visuals of a game you already sold people?

If owned a console copy of GTA V I would be losing my shit so hard.

Can people choose not to download the patch?

Yeah they can but they wouldn't be able to go online without it
 
This is sketchy. I was happy with the game the way it was. Haven't played it myself since this update went live to judge the change, but that looks BAD.
 

Seanspeed

Banned
I'm not trying to troll, but I really don't see a downgrade. The images look a bit different yes, but in the 1.00 to 1.08 comparison shots the gamer is standing in a slightly different location looking at a slightly different angle and so the perspective is slightly different, possibly revealing details/blemishes you could not see before. If there is a difference between the two versions, I need to see it in person, I can never tell from a youtube video.
Differences are definitely there with the parallax occlusion mapping. The pop-in seems debatable. And the vehicle damage seems like there might just be a reduction in the deformation of the front bumper for the most part.
 

Terra

Member
Is it such a big deal? If it runs better, then it's good.
However, I hope that it won't carry over to PC. I want to be able to control my performance myself...
 
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