You should try some proper-made IR pointing stuff then, it might blow your mind.
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Rolling Stone: DOOM on Switch will render the same both handheld and docked, at 720p
- Thread starter Cerium
- Start date
iamaustrian
Member
FloweryMarston
Member
no gyro? ;___________;
Dictator93
Member
May sound strange, but this kinda perfect for pixel counting, as the way Doom does holograms is a funciton of the rendering resolution of the game (the screen space dither pattern adjusts linearly with rendering resolution). You could technically eye screen space size of stipling within the holograms and get a pixel count of the game via inference.
ultrazilla
Member
At least Bethesda has proven that the Switch is capable of running "current gen" ports(and pretty damn good to boot!). Sure, there may be some trade offs and we won't get 1:1 ports of the same PS4 Pro/Xbox One X games but the Switch is powerful enough to at least get the ports where the Wii U was just left behind.
Portugeezer
Member
I don't know if it can apply to all games.
It's 60fps on other consoles, on Switch it is 30fps (I don't mind but tech wise that is a big difference). The environments also seem quite linear (haven't played so not sure) which is probably easier to fine tune compared to how something like RDR2 will be for example. Wolfenstein 2 will be interesting, some of the environments look very detailed on the consoles.
But in the end, sales matter, if the Switch continues to do well then developers/publishers might put the extra effort to down porting huge AAA games onto the Switch.
Polygonal_Sprite
Member
Why is there a need for pixel counting? If the game is 720p when docked then it's most likely 'dynamic 720p' when in handheld mode with it hitting 720p on very few occasions and sticking to the next major resolution down - 540p (maybe 600p).
Mario x Rabbids is 600p in handheld mode and looks delicious. People need to chill over non native resolutions on a 6" screen lol.
It the end, the difference won't matter that much for a huge amount of people. A lot of people here will need to adjust themselves to this new reality the Switch will bring.
DOOM being on the Switch has huge ramifications : if the games sells well (and it probably will), third parties AAA high performance games will now be justified to be ported to the platform, EVEN if visual QA and framerate performace needs to be impacted.
The concept of a hybrid console might have a bigger value to a lot of people than most of us had initially expected.
We'll see how things go down the line, as developers become more acclimated to the Switch hardware. Best case scenario, the devs figure out ways of increasing framerate or aspect ratio.
But yes, first and foremost the Switch is a handheld platform; that's been made obvious by now - which is fine, since Nintendo excel in that department. Doom at 720p and 30FPS on handheld is far better than an uncapped FPS that goes higher, imo.
But yes, first and foremost the Switch is a handheld platform; that's been made obvious by now - which is fine, since Nintendo excel in that department. Doom at 720p and 30FPS on handheld is far better than an uncapped FPS that goes higher, imo.
BigEmil
Junior Member
I mean if it's running at 720p 30fps when other consoles run it at 1080p 60fps of course atleast the visuals graphics aspect of the game should be identical level since the res and fps have been lowered alot to achieve that visual quality
One minor addendum: According to Digital Foundry, the XB1 version has a dynamic resolution that varies between 1080p and 720p but mostly hangs around 900p during the game, so I wouldn't say that one is running at 1080p60.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
How do you know that?
I'm on the wait and see for these games.
Sonic, Yooka (well definitely if it came out early), Rime (see Yooka), Golf Story and other indies, are definitely guaranteed to sell. I'll need to see a doom, wolfenstein, fifa, etc sell first before I conclude it will.
At least 2K and Fifa are day and date right
Prithee Be Careful
Industry Professional
Cons:
- Lower resolution
- Lower framerate
- Lower quality textures
- Lower quality post-processing
- Smaller screen
- Limited battery life
- Multiplayer is a separate download
Pros:
+ I'm not at home
This trade off will continue to baffle me. It's like, 'I okay with a massively substandard experience so long as I'm on public transport / the toilet / halfway up a mountain when I'm doing it."
Skittzo0413
Member
I seriously don't get why this is so hard to understand. Portability does not mean you want to take it outside.
99% of the time I'm using my Switch it's in my house undocked, and I'm either lying on the couch, watching football on TV, in my home office during lunch, or in bed at night. Portability is an enormous benefit to some people even within their home. Being locked down to a TV feels like a huge burden these days to me.
Naked Snake
Member
I see your logic and I've been questioning mine for a while now. The thing is I just don't play games that often anymore, even though I continue to buy/collect them it seems (despite trying to minimize unwarranted purchases with some success).
I built a PC with GTX 970 a few years ago, collected 100+ games on Steam, but ended up not playing a single one of them. My PC remains a GAF/porn machine.
Didn't get a PS4 because I knew I wouldn't play on it (in fact I sold my TV long ago since I rarely turned it on anymore).
The only gaming I did this gen was on 3DS. Still a low amount compared to my older days, but I did play and finish and thoroughly enjoy a few games (even though most of what I bought ended up being unplayed/unfinished).
Enter Switch and BotW, that was a surprising turnaround for me. I did not think a game could have such a hold on me in this day and age. I played it almost daily and clocked in around 250 hours... But I stopped playing before I finished it :/
Bought a few other games on Switch that I barely touched, except Sonic Mania, been playing that on and off for a while and loving it, but at a very slow pace still.
So based on my recent history you would predict that I am much more likely to actually play Doom on Switch than on PC if I bought it on either... What's the point of buying the superior version if it's just going to be another digital trophy in my Steam backlog? While I could at least resell the Switch cart if it ends up being a wasted purchase...
Then again all the trade off points you listed and a $10 vs $60 price tag is throwing a wrench in my decision making.
I know I'm an outlier case study (or am I?) but I felt like sharing my miserable gaming "career" as of late.
P.S. The "I'm not at home" part doesn't apply to me, since I played the Switch and 3DS at home 100% of the time. My issue with PC/console gaming is psychological at this point.
Retro Edge
Member
30fps and 720p?
Haha, lol, nope.
Haha, lol, nope.
Prithee Be Careful
Industry Professional
Cons:
- Lower resolution
- Lower framerate
- Lower quality textures
- Lower quality post-processing
- Smaller screen
- Limited battery life
- Multiplayer is a separate download
Pros:
+ I'm not directly in front of a TV.
Okay, I fixed it. I'm still not seeing it. A TV might be a burden but bigger than the top list? Even if I'm not a total graphics/performance nerd I'm still working on a six-inch screen and a battery life that'd make a Dualshock 4 blush (no mean feat).
forknknife
Banned
Gamexplain says there will be no motion controls, is that true? Then I think I will not get it if so.
Prithee Be Careful
Industry Professional
Even though I sold my Switch a few months ago due to a lack of compelling software (for me), the fact that it can even run this game at 720/30 is impressive. Even though this is the epitome of 60 FPS shooter bliss on other platforms, it's still remarkable.
I just can't imagine the contortions involved to play it in handheld mode, and yes, I've seem the videos. For a few hrs at a time? Hell no.
I just can't imagine the contortions involved to play it in handheld mode, and yes, I've seem the videos. For a few hrs at a time? Hell no.
Skittzo0413
Member
For a lot of people (myself included) I would have basically no time to game in front of a TV. Maybe a maximum of an hour a week. I have a decent laptop so I'm fortunate enough to have a bit more time, but it's still not exactly the most portable device there is.
The Switch lets me insert little bursts of gaming throughout my day that I would have absolutely no ability to do otherwise. Especially when I'm in bed with my wife sleeping. So for me, if I didn't have a laptop the list would be as follows:
Cons:
- Lower resolution
- Lower framerate
- Lower quality textures
- Lower quality post-processing
(I took off the last three because they really don't apply, at least to me)
and the Pro would be:
- Will actually have time to play the game.
I honestly fail to see your point. Different people have different preferences - so what? Some people value the portability, some people dont. Theres nothing else to it, really. He explained to you that he likes playing games while watching football or while being in his home office - in these situations playing on a console is straight up not an option. So what is even the point of your list? Simililarly, I like playing games on my handheld while my gf watches shows on the TV. What good is a PS4 game to me then?
Also, I actually dont mind the smaller screen at all. To the contrary, I always thought playing games on a handheld with the game just inches away from my eyes has more of a intimate feeling than playing on TV. If I have the choice, I rather play on Switchs small screen than on my 50 TV. I spent more time with my DS than with PS3 or Wii, I spent more time with my 3DS than with my PS4 or Wii U. Preferences are a crazy thing.
Skittzo0413
Member
Yup, I just have no interest in buying a TV bound console anymore because I know I'll barely (if ever) use it. For me it's a choice between playing a game and not playing it, not deciding between resolutions.
Also I completely agree with you on screen size. I found the 3DS screen to be a bit too small for my liking but the Wii U and Switch screens suck me into the games FAR better than my 61 inch TV does, since the screen is usually just a foot or less away from my face. I never really got the "small screen" complaints when it came to Wii U or Switch.
Really, I've seen a lot of anecdotal evidence around here that people are finding far more time to play games on their Switches than they do on their PS4s or XB1s, and I think that's really the reason why people are thirsty as hell for Switch games. I own 19 games already yet I want more, and I'm planning to buy everything Bethesda is bringing too. That's because the form factor actually gives me the time to play these games that I never used to have in my lifestyle.
So again, my choice comes down to: 720p or not playing the game at all.
Wow.
How far away from your TV are you sitting? I have a 55", and it's no contest, the TV is far more immersive for me than the Switch was.
Skittzo0413
Member
Probably 6-10 feet max. The problem is with my TV my peripheral vision captures so much more of my house and windows, lights, etc. whereas if I'm staring at the Switch a foot from my face the majority of what I can see is the black border around the screen. I never really felt as drawn into games on a TV screen as I have on portable screens like laptops or 3DS/Switch.
That might just be a me thing I guess.
lwilliams3
Member
Depending on your lifestyle, portability can easily outweigh any of those cons. For me, the extremely short time it takes to get a game started on the Switch, the ability for the system to be used with any dock without carrying any additional wires, and the convinence on how the joycons can quickly sync up to any system makes it easy for me to cram a little game time for my generally chaotic day schedule.
As an example, you technically can make a pro/con list for playing games with the other consoles vs Switch when you are away from the TV or on a bus.. but that would pointless. "Substandard" graphics is better than what the others can provide in those conditions.
ThisIsMyDogKyle
Banned
how much portability matters and how much one cares about that "massively substandard experience" are both incredibly subjective, someone could simply not care about graphics that much, like most non-enthusiasts tbh, which automatically makes the Switch version an easier choice because ignoring graphics, as many people do, whether they should or not is a whole other thing but the fact is the majority of the game buying audience doesn't know/care about graphical differences in games, the only difference is the Switch is portable, or even if some people would prefer the better graphics they could simply not have as much time to play if it wasn't portable, which again makes it a pretty easy choice for them.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
I think it was established the day we saw the specs that Switch was not going to have the best-looking version of any multiplatform game.
Millions of people bought it anyway.
Why does this game suddenly make people rip & tear their hair out trying to understand? If Switch owners cared about ultra high res textures and 4k they'd have bought something else.
It looks like Doom. It retains all the gameplay and stages and enemies and weapons and console control options. It runs at a playable framerate and (allegedly) runs at native res in portable mode. Based only on what we've seen, it's a good port by any generation's standard, especially considering most of us thought it was downright impossible two weeks ago. If there are action game fans on the console, it will sell decently. That's the only answer needed to the question "why does this exist?"
Millions of people bought it anyway.
Why does this game suddenly make people rip & tear their hair out trying to understand? If Switch owners cared about ultra high res textures and 4k they'd have bought something else.
It looks like Doom. It retains all the gameplay and stages and enemies and weapons and console control options. It runs at a playable framerate and (allegedly) runs at native res in portable mode. Based only on what we've seen, it's a good port by any generation's standard, especially considering most of us thought it was downright impossible two weeks ago. If there are action game fans on the console, it will sell decently. That's the only answer needed to the question "why does this exist?"
Everyone who's actually gone hands-on with the Switch version says it looks great and feels great to play.
I'm someone who played the heck out of the PS4 version and started like six threads on it here, including this screenshots thread appreciating the game's creature design. I'm very familiar with this game, and everything I've seen from the Switch version looks great, and straight-up incredible for something I can boot up in a split-second and play anywhere in my home (or outside my home) on a handheld system.
It really can't be overstated how wonderful it is being able to just dip into a game while sitting in your home office waiting for your source to return your calls, getting some playtime in while still feeling "productive." A game like DOOM where you run around at 90mph is the perfect sort of pick-up-and-play experience on Switch.
Same for Rocket League, which is another no-brainer purchase for the portable.
I'm someone who played the heck out of the PS4 version and started like six threads on it here, including this screenshots thread appreciating the game's creature design. I'm very familiar with this game, and everything I've seen from the Switch version looks great, and straight-up incredible for something I can boot up in a split-second and play anywhere in my home (or outside my home) on a handheld system.
It really can't be overstated how wonderful it is being able to just dip into a game while sitting in your home office waiting for your source to return your calls, getting some playtime in while still feeling "productive." A game like DOOM where you run around at 90mph is the perfect sort of pick-up-and-play experience on Switch.
Same for Rocket League, which is another no-brainer purchase for the portable.
What a joke.
Yes. I think plenty of people are not fussed anywhere near as much by things like frame rate, resolution and post-processing effects as others, and are much more interested in being able to play it wherever and whenever instead of reserving a time and place in front of the TV. For many people it's a time management thing, where their lack of interest in having the most technically advanced version combines with their wish to play it when lying on the couch in a comfortable position or when commuting on the bus/train/airplane. As a result, this is what your list feels like to me, just for illustration's sake:
-- And my conclusion is that Doom on Switch is the best version for me, especally seeing as the game apparently still looks great according to previews, despite the graphical downgrades. It's a different people, different requirements thing
You are one of the prime audience Nintendo is targeting with Switch.
EDIT:
Skittzo0413 too.
The vast majority of people probably won't even notice the texture/post processing differences with the game. Frame rate and Resolution are more noticeable but a lot of people don't notice that either unless you put them side by side.
It's a far cry from the differences between Wii and 360, that's for sure.
It's a far cry from the differences between Wii and 360, that's for sure.
Just watched a Wii vs. XB360 COD MW comparison for the first time, and wow, that's fucking hilarious! Sometimes geometry on buildings has been just completely been taken away, and stuff looks decidedly previous gen (not a shred of accurate either), Doom Switch vs. PS4 looks nowhere close to as bad as that (low bar indeed).
And realistically, that was always going to be the case. At the end of the day, high resolution and fps take a lot of resources. If you dial those things back even slightly (say from 1080p to 720p or 60fps to 30fps - or both) you are drastically reducing the graphical processing power required to run the game. Ergo it always made sense to anyone looking at this pragmatically, that the Switch could mostly run the same games as PS4/XBone without losing too much of the experience - as long as the highest res and fps aren't deal breakers for you.
It looks like a lot of people are either unemployed, or don't have kids and/or a partner at home, or just have a shitload of free time. Otherwise I just can't explain how people might not (or just don't want to) understand the appeal of the Switch.
I can dedicate around 60-90 minutes a day playing games on the Switch. Without the Switch that would probably be 30-45 minutes at max, and for that short period I probably wouldn't even turn on my TV, because it makes no sense. It's like some people already mentioned, either play on the Switch, or don't play at all.
I can dedicate around 60-90 minutes a day playing games on the Switch. Without the Switch that would probably be 30-45 minutes at max, and for that short period I probably wouldn't even turn on my TV, because it makes no sense. It's like some people already mentioned, either play on the Switch, or don't play at all.
You are actually on to something not a lot of people really take into account. Field of View for good TV viewing in HD is recommended to be minimum 30 degrees (so 30 degrees of your FOV is taken up by the TV) or 40 degrees in cinemas. That equates to around 2.28m for a 55" screen - (or 1.68m for a 'Cinema' feel)
Holding a 6inch screen 0.5 metre away would be about the same FOV. (I think, can't check my maths right now but I think the viewing distance goes down by about 20cm per 5" of screen size or something like that.)
So in fact Switch handheld mode would provide the same effect as a 55" TV unless you sit closer than 7.5 feet or have the arms of an orangutan.
Apologies for mixing metric and imperial. Most charts on the matter are in imperial but my mind works in metric
And yet, it's still pretty much the same game, despite those flaws. I mean, it walks like a duck and talks like a duck.
Does your enjoyment of the game take a hit, knowing that somewhere, somehow there is a version of the same game that is even better? I mean, you could just say the same about the PS4 and XBO versions really. Lower framerate than PC, lower quality textures than PC, lower resolution than PC, lower quality effects than on PC... you'd have to be INSANE to play the game on PS4 or XBO, right? But the game is pretty much the same, and i don't tend to pixelcount fast enough during gameplay for it to bother me. Sure, i would have liked 720/60. But IF they decide to implement gyro aiming, it might be the best version for me overall.
Skittzo0413
Member
The other possibility is people who want to be negative on Nintendo at all times and just try to find a way to do that however they can. I'm not saying anyone in particular is doing this, just could be a reason some people tend to "ignore" this aspect of the Switch. And just say "no thanks, I don't want to play this game at the park". As if you have to play it outside if it's undocked.
You are actually on to something not a lot of people really take into account. Field of View for good TV viewing in HD is recommended to be minimum 30 degrees (so 30 degrees of your FOV is taken up by the TV) or 40 degrees in cinemas. That equates to around 2.28m for a 55" screen - (or 1.68m for a 'Cinema' feel)
Holding a 6inch screen 0.5 metre away would be about the same FOV. (I think, can't check my maths right now but I think the viewing distance goes down by about 20cm per 5" of screen size or something like that.)
So in fact Switch handheld mode would provide the same effect as a 55" TV unless you sit closer than 7.5 feet or have the arms of an orangutan.
Apologies for mixing metric and imperial. Most charts on the matter are in imperial but my mind works in metric
That's interesting, I didn't know there were actually "optimum" viewing angles. I would have assumed that would differ greatly from person to person (and it probably does) which is why portable gaming for me tends to be far more immersive than TV gaming.
Anyway yeah, the Switch screen being 6.2 inches is very nice. It's certainly not too small and it's an outstanding screen for a handheld. I really only dock my Switch when I'm playing multiplayer.
Joseph Flemming
Member
This pretty much sums up my gaming time right now.
I'm 38, have a family and responsibilities, I'm blessed because I ended up getting my wife into gaming; still between work, 3 teenage boys, spending time being productive IRL, and sharing the screen with my wife my gaming time was greatly reduced.
I still get in some time here and there, but it's usually planned.. yeah I usually have a hour or so at the end of the day but I'm usually so tired I'd rather Netflix. I've always made time for the biggest releases that I cared about, or quick pick up and play games...but like others my Backlog just keeps growing. I have all the systems but rarely use them.. enter the Switch.
It is so refreshing to just be able to play console quality games on the go and feel like they haven't been compromised. I've gotten more gaming done this year on the Switch than any other system. As a person who is system agnostic, I'll have to say honestly, the portability of this system trumps almost anything else.
I will always want to see big games on the TV and get lost in an epic graphically intensive game, but in reality I usually only "binge" a couple times a year. With the Switch reducing the time it takes to get from the TV to portable and back again to nigh instantaneous... i want every game on the Switch. It just fits my lifestyle better.
I work at a University. I see college students ages 17-25 and they are talking about the Switch. On lunch break we all gather around like the commercials and play on the Switch.
People always comment on how good the games look... they aren't counting pixels, or resolution. (They do complain about accessorie prices) but they want the hardware and like their time with it.
TL;DR- The Switch has given me back the ability to game more often, and the flexibility to do it how I want, when I want with the ease of portability and least amount of compromise to date...for that I'll take slight reductions as long as they're quality ports and the developers are pushing the system for all they can.
To encourage this I will purchase a 3 Bethesda games.
Guys from Panic Button, the dev team making the port of DOOM for Switch, have spread some words about the development.
The following comes from Adam Creighton, Studio Head & Director of Development at Panic Button:
Source: https://www.nextn.es/2017/09/panic-button-doom-switch-desarrollo-especial/
The following comes from Adam Creighton, Studio Head & Director of Development at Panic Button:
Source: https://www.nextn.es/2017/09/panic-button-doom-switch-desarrollo-especial/