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Playing video-games nowadays = please wait.
- Thread starter cireza
- Start date
Charlouie Jonesman
Banned
PS4 downloads all the new patches automatically in Rest Mode if you enable the right settings.
Plumpbiscuit
Member
People always crap on old games for disc switching and saying it's annoying, then go and defend GBs of data downloading, system updates, long load times, poor framerate and then downloading the game itself which can be around 20 - 80 GB depending on the game. I would rather spend 30 seconds changing a disc than waiting literal days for a game to be made playable, before the additional GBs of patches that may or may not break your game. I've been playing games since 1997 and I would rather much still disc switch than download a 50 GB game, install a day 1 patch, update the game client(s), wait for a lengthy install time, download driver updates, restart the computer then eventually play the game - and that's if there isn't a 10 GB patch waiting for me after all this. I'd rather switch discs than download chunks of data.
A common counter-argument to this that I see alot are people bringing up floppy disks changing, yet conveniently dismiss compact media as part of retro games, since that's the most convenient way to break up game data and get you playing as quickly as possible. Disc switching was fast and you have to be an incredibly lazy person to not get off your seat and simply change a disc, compared to nowadays waiting for hours and days just to boot a game up, before even playing it. What alot of people don't want to tell you is that these PC games that were sold with floppy disks also sold with CD-ROM versions, though sometimes they released later on as the technology became available.
I am an adult so my time with video games are limited, much more than when I was younger. I CANNOT wait hours or days for a game to be made playable, when I buy a game I expect to slip the disc in and play it right there and then. No bullshit GBs of updates waiting for me every week or so. Give me back disc switching with reduced load times.
A common counter-argument to this that I see alot are people bringing up floppy disks changing, yet conveniently dismiss compact media as part of retro games, since that's the most convenient way to break up game data and get you playing as quickly as possible. Disc switching was fast and you have to be an incredibly lazy person to not get off your seat and simply change a disc, compared to nowadays waiting for hours and days just to boot a game up, before even playing it. What alot of people don't want to tell you is that these PC games that were sold with floppy disks also sold with CD-ROM versions, though sometimes they released later on as the technology became available.
I am an adult so my time with video games are limited, much more than when I was younger. I CANNOT wait hours or days for a game to be made playable, when I buy a game I expect to slip the disc in and play it right there and then. No bullshit GBs of updates waiting for me every week or so. Give me back disc switching with reduced load times.
Hippolnareff
Member
Yeah, because once you've spent that 20-40 minutes installing a patch, it's not like you get a game that's dozens of hours in length.
Research does say we live in age of impatience & instant gratification...
That said, I understand that for people without the best internet how playing games today could be more inconvient.
Today I'm a fan of:
-Speed at which games come out
-Games being pre-loaded & ready to go at midnight
-Instant access to entire digitally downloaded game collection
-Automatic updates in rest mode
-Quick snappy UI, quick system boot times (looking at you previous gen)
-Not needing to deal with physical media, damage to games, loosing them, switching them out, ect
That said, I understand that for people without the best internet how playing games today could be more inconvient.
Today I'm a fan of:
-Speed at which games come out
-Games being pre-loaded & ready to go at midnight
-Instant access to entire digitally downloaded game collection
-Automatic updates in rest mode
-Quick snappy UI, quick system boot times (looking at you previous gen)
-Not needing to deal with physical media, damage to games, loosing them, switching them out, ect
AAA gaming today is truly not conducive to people with slow or capped internet. I don't even think PC games in the past had that problem. And that's really what's happening -- consoles have taken on aspects of PC gaming but without the freedom of PC gaming and with much larger file sizes to deal with.
Pretty sure art assets like textures have more to do with large file sizes than the actual complexity of the games. Are today's games really that much more complex mechanically than say late 90's PC games? I guess they're more complex than older console games.
And this stuff is exactly why a lot of people probably moved on to mobile games. Those need to be patched sure, but they pretty much never go over a gig. Tapping on a game on your phone's front screen and playing it is pretty much just as fast as putting a cartridge into a Super NES and turning the power on.
It makes sense in a sort of unintuitive way that some large open-world games are actually smaller than modern linear games in terms of file size. The original version of Skyrim is like 6GB, Witcher 3 without expansions is 20GB and with expansions is 35, MGSV Phantom Pain is the same size, Zelda BOTW is 13GB. Those games repeat a lot of assets whereas linear games have to keep hitting you with new high quality assets every step of the way. That's why Gears 4 on PC is 101GB despite being much shorter than BOTW.
Pretty sure art assets like textures have more to do with large file sizes than the actual complexity of the games. Are today's games really that much more complex mechanically than say late 90's PC games? I guess they're more complex than older console games.
And this stuff is exactly why a lot of people probably moved on to mobile games. Those need to be patched sure, but they pretty much never go over a gig. Tapping on a game on your phone's front screen and playing it is pretty much just as fast as putting a cartridge into a Super NES and turning the power on.
It makes sense in a sort of unintuitive way that some large open-world games are actually smaller than modern linear games in terms of file size. The original version of Skyrim is like 6GB, Witcher 3 without expansions is 20GB and with expansions is 35, MGSV Phantom Pain is the same size, Zelda BOTW is 13GB. Those games repeat a lot of assets whereas linear games have to keep hitting you with new high quality assets every step of the way. That's why Gears 4 on PC is 101GB despite being much shorter than BOTW.
I don't mind loading times as it's been a part of gaming for me since the beginning. I started playing games on C64 and before I had a disk drive I had to use a datasette drive which took forever to load a game.
I only started playing on consoles years later and I really enjoyed the speed of catridges but I have never seen that as a status quo in gaming. But I would be lying if I said I've never been annoyed by having to update your console/game before being able to play. But in general it's not that bad to me considering what I've put up with in the past. Like unpacking Wing Commander 2 for hours before being able to play for the first time, or swapping disks 11 times just to start Kings Quest V using floppy disks.
I only started playing on consoles years later and I really enjoyed the speed of catridges but I have never seen that as a status quo in gaming. But I would be lying if I said I've never been annoyed by having to update your console/game before being able to play. But in general it's not that bad to me considering what I've put up with in the past. Like unpacking Wing Commander 2 for hours before being able to play for the first time, or swapping disks 11 times just to start Kings Quest V using floppy disks.
blue_phazon
Member
Holy SHIT that 2-3 day download is NOT normal. Where are you located that the internet is that bad?
Or, you know, they could spend time on QC and release games that don't need 20 GB day one patches.
Far too many studios base their development timeline on the idea of shipping then patching.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Stop playing big AAA games. It's the only solution.
AppleSeason
Member
My cousins had it much worse than me, with Spectrum and MSX. I did not had to deal with the tapes for a long time since we had a 3" disk CPC. Load times were like 5-10 seconds, so you did not have a lot of time to appreciate the screen. The sad thing is when compilations of multiple games removed those load screens and left a black one to save space. A bit sad.
Did you own a wii u at launch? Worst day 1 update I've ever experienced.
You can definitely play ps4 games without patching to the latest version too.
atomic moth
Member
I stick with arcade games, indies and NES/SNES/Genesis era. Mostly because I don't like hand holding and cut scenes but yeah, loading is an issue too.
And why are people cherry picking the old computer cassette systems? I think after the first example we get it. 80% of popular gaming before CDs didn't have much loading. OP is correct and his opinion should be respected.
And why are people cherry picking the old computer cassette systems? I think after the first example we get it. 80% of popular gaming before CDs didn't have much loading. OP is correct and his opinion should be respected.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
-.-
some of y'all have got to understand that the only thing keeping game sizes in check last generation was the 360 and its DVDs
games get bigger as technology improves and enables bigger games
this shit is not even close to new
I understand being bothered by patches and shit, but hey, they're what allow for bigger games that aren't broken. I can live with the wait. (more accurately I just game on PC mostly, where all of this shit is far less obtrusive)
Roland1979
Junior Member
Fair point. Luckily i have a good internet connection. And old games made you backtrack a lot. Which i don't mind often if you also discover new things, but a lot of people seem to hate it. So, it's a wash? Your console on stand by instead of completely off probably barely consumes any energy though, stand by power consumption is barely noticeable with most modern electronics, and when active consumes just as much as when it's active later to do the thing it could have done earlier.
Sword Of Doom
Member
I have an SSD only PC so load times are a non issue for me. It bothers me too though. Aside from frame rate, loading time is the biggest issue I have when I play games on the PS4. Download times are also super fast on Steam but that depends on your internet I guess.
nkarafo
Member
Yeah, i can't stand consoles anymore. They require a lot of patience. They are like cramped, terrible slow PCs. I'd rather stick to my faster, proper Desktop PC. Loading times are much shorter, even without an SSD (among many other benefits).
Edit: Jesus christ @ those old 8bit home computers. How could you people even stand them? I guess you didn't have a choice...
Edit: Jesus christ @ those old 8bit home computers. How could you people even stand them? I guess you didn't have a choice...
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
You can avoid updating on MicroSony's machines but you won't be able to play online (which is quite reasonable).
yanipheonu
Member
I find myself playing podcasts over the wider open world games, so loading isn't really an issue. I actually like having breaks every once in a while.
SMOK3Y
Generous Member
Not everyone lives where there's good Internet max i can get here is 9mbps which eqates to about 1meg a second dowload speed & this is not something that can be sped up its at its max
OP, before you give up on console gaming entirely may I highly recommend you try PS4? Or if you really hate even pretty reasonable load times, PS4 Pro with an SSD.
If you infrequently use an Xbox One the problems you are facing are absolutely infuriating. I sold mine a year ago because I couldn't stand it. Every time I turned on the machine I had to install a system update, then when I tried to launch any game it had to download hours worth of updates. Many time I tried to play a game only to give up because it wouldn't be ready to play even a few hours later.
On PS4 disk installs are really fast. You can play un updated games no problem. And Rest mode works great, uses very little power and downloads and installs all updates automatically, even system updates if you let it.
The experience is night and day different than Xbox One, which has brutally slow disc install times and (at least as far as I remember it) won't let you play un updated games at all unless you manually turn off internet.
PS4 also has a much better variety of games in my opinion, with tons of amazing indies and definitive versions of all the AAA titles, and some amazing exclusives (uncharted 4, horizon, blood borne).
I'm sure I sound fanboy ish but I buy basically all the consoles every gen and Bone is the first in a very long time that I was just like 'fuck this thing I can't stand it' because of exactly what you described.
If you infrequently use an Xbox One the problems you are facing are absolutely infuriating. I sold mine a year ago because I couldn't stand it. Every time I turned on the machine I had to install a system update, then when I tried to launch any game it had to download hours worth of updates. Many time I tried to play a game only to give up because it wouldn't be ready to play even a few hours later.
On PS4 disk installs are really fast. You can play un updated games no problem. And Rest mode works great, uses very little power and downloads and installs all updates automatically, even system updates if you let it.
The experience is night and day different than Xbox One, which has brutally slow disc install times and (at least as far as I remember it) won't let you play un updated games at all unless you manually turn off internet.
PS4 also has a much better variety of games in my opinion, with tons of amazing indies and definitive versions of all the AAA titles, and some amazing exclusives (uncharted 4, horizon, blood borne).
I'm sure I sound fanboy ish but I buy basically all the consoles every gen and Bone is the first in a very long time that I was just like 'fuck this thing I can't stand it' because of exactly what you described.
Wesley-Sigma
Member
I don't mind the waiting -- I just don't like how big AAA games tend to not run well.
Try getting back to classic consoles like I did a couple years ago. I forgot how fast everything was. Fire up a Genesis or SNES and you're running through the first stage in seconds.
Even when a modern game doesnt have big downloads or long load times, you still have to contend with wading through a modern console UI and game design that forces you to sit through exposition, tutorials, etc., before you can do anything.
It all adds a few layers of annoyance that can be off-putting and a deterrent from playing. I find the Switch has alleviated some of these problems with the UI simplicity and how quickly you can jump back into a game.
Even when a modern game doesnt have big downloads or long load times, you still have to contend with wading through a modern console UI and game design that forces you to sit through exposition, tutorials, etc., before you can do anything.
It all adds a few layers of annoyance that can be off-putting and a deterrent from playing. I find the Switch has alleviated some of these problems with the UI simplicity and how quickly you can jump back into a game.
Jawbreaker
Member
Can you play unpatched games on the Bone like you can with the PS4? I'd suggest doing that if you can, OP. Let it update overnight. Also, not sure if the feature exists on the Bone, but with the PS4, you can start playing games while they're still installing.
And it's not just big games. You should see what I had to do just to play an old PS1 game on my Vita: http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=232785119
cireza
Member
My top download speed must be 400~500 KB/sec. So getting a 50/60 GB games easily take 2 days. I only get time to play during evenings. Any update that is more than 3 GB means I will play the game tomorrow lol.
I remember buying Hitman a morning, and was only able to play the tutorial scenario late in the evening of the day after.
Randy Solo
Member
I bought breath of the wild digitally yesterday for Wii u.. took an hour to download the 10gb game.. and then it took 45 mins to install (seriously wtf) and then about half an hour to download the patch, and then the install.. yep, clearly the answer to not waiting is to buy Nintendo machines. Good call. Obviously you need to wait for a digital download, but that install time is a fucking joke. And saying no to an update, is essentially saying yes to an unfinished game.
jamesmccloud
Member
People bringing up floppies or coding games from a paper by hand - what about comparing to early-ish console gaming? NES, SNES, Genesis? How do their install and loading times compare?
CD-ROM PC games of the same era were horrible with install and loading times, sure.
CD-ROM PC games of the same era were horrible with install and loading times, sure.
cireza
Member
Are you serious ? Maybe publishers should start by releasing games in a decent state to begin with ?
Accepting updates is accepting unfinished games, not the contrary.
Randy Solo
Member
Is your reading comprehension ok? That's exactly what I'm saying..
cireza
Member
Hum...
You said :
Saying no to an update is saying yes to an unfinished game.
I think that saying yes to an update is saying yes to an unfinished game.
Phoenix944
Member
Only thing that could be bothering me is loading time. Install time are usually very fast, just a matter of seconds, and you can play games without having to update them.
And if it's not the case, grab a portable consol (surely you have one) and play it while it's downloading/installing
No time wasted
And if it's not the case, grab a portable consol (surely you have one) and play it while it's downloading/installing
No time wastedRandy Solo
Member
I can see what you're saying. But I think we are still trying to make the same point. I was referring to the wait time the poster I was replying to was talking about. Absolutely an update in any shape or form is exactly that, an acceptance of an unfinished game. But the poster was using the fact you could say no to an update, as some kind of positive to owning a Nintendo machine. That's what I was taking exception with.
petran79
Banned
Since I dont care about multiplayer games that much, I am also annoyed.
If I want to download or update games fast I plug out the USB disk with Steam games and go visit a net cafe where speeds are faster.
Consoles have become like MMO PC games.
The most annoying thing are offline games that due to DRM refuse to run if you have not a net connection
If I want to download or update games fast I plug out the USB disk with Steam games and go visit a net cafe where speeds are faster.
Consoles have become like MMO PC games.
The most annoying thing are offline games that due to DRM refuse to run if you have not a net connection
cireza
Member
Yes, I was about to edit my post. Sorry about the confusion. I was in fact agreeing with from the beginning, I only read a bit too fast.
From a development point of view, accepting updates means accepting unfinished games.
But once that the game is out and you are in front of your console, refusing an update means accepting playing an unfinished game.
Randy Solo
Member
Yeah, I definitely agree with you. I don't know why some people pick this battle to try and elevate their preferred platform holder, when the waiting the OP was referring to exists across everything. It's an industry problem, more than a platform exclusive problem.
Having said that, I personally don't mind waiting, especially when the games we are playing these days have so much content and high quality assets. I think the waiting is worth the final result in most cases.
One has to wonder what's up with Microsoft, if I have a Windows 10 update I don't even notice it until I power down my PC and the shutdown screen shows a message that updates are being installed before shutdown...
The notion that the console has to be up to date the moment a new patch arrives is crazy, no one would get hurt if they did the updates once you're finished with gaming and shut the system down.
OP should play Winter Games for the C64 using the cassette version before bitching about console load times.
I've had a PS4 since launch and I think the longest I've had to wait for a game was GTAV. All the updates download in the background, physical installs are either really quick or I go do something else like housework while waiting for the game to install. Digital games I order from PSN at work then they're ready when I get home.
So no, don't agree with the OP that it's either a hassle or a 'current trend'.
I've had a PS4 since launch and I think the longest I've had to wait for a game was GTAV. All the updates download in the background, physical installs are either really quick or I go do something else like housework while waiting for the game to install. Digital games I order from PSN at work then they're ready when I get home.
So no, don't agree with the OP that it's either a hassle or a 'current trend'.
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
Yup 15 min loading timesThese days is nothing.
Downloads for digital versions I don't think are a problem (for a non-digital version, you'd have spent much more time at a store.)
But I'm annoyed that so few games have managed continuous loading zones recently, even though GTA made it the standard for open world games and Soul Reaver was doing it all the way back on the Dreamcast.
But I'm annoyed that so few games have managed continuous loading zones recently, even though GTA made it the standard for open world games and Soul Reaver was doing it all the way back on the Dreamcast.
I massively disagree. Aside from open world games having that big initial load, most games these days don't even seem to have loading screens.
Go back and play PS1. Theres a fairly lengthy loading scene after every level, and the levels themselves are much shorter than todays games. Just going to the options menu can cause loading too. PS1 was awful for it.
I don't play many online games so I guess I'm lucky in that the games I do play dont require many patches to be downloaded.
Also as someone who grew up on a spectrum, I can tell you that todays games are far better than a 5 minute loading screen screeching away at you before every game.
We aren't at SNES/Megadrive level, but we're far better off than some other gens.
Go back and play PS1. Theres a fairly lengthy loading scene after every level, and the levels themselves are much shorter than todays games. Just going to the options menu can cause loading too. PS1 was awful for it.
I don't play many online games so I guess I'm lucky in that the games I do play dont require many patches to be downloaded.
Also as someone who grew up on a spectrum, I can tell you that todays games are far better than a 5 minute loading screen screeching away at you before every game.
We aren't at SNES/Megadrive level, but we're far better off than some other gens.
I generally don't mind at all as it isn't too much an issue for me with a reasonable internet connection and PC being my main platform. Getting a game on Xbox is pretty bad though as I have no idea what it is doing! Just "installing" for 2+ hours which I'm guessing means Xbox Live servers are downloading a patch rather slowly then it will start installing.
Back in the old days instability, lack of saves and slow load times would of be the grievances at the time. No doubt if games load times were 0.5 seconds there would be still something to moan about such as epilepsy warning splash screens delaying your gaming time etc
Mobile is pretty quick so the platform is something worth investigating if it really bothers you!
Back in the old days instability, lack of saves and slow load times would of be the grievances at the time. No doubt if games load times were 0.5 seconds there would be still something to moan about such as epilepsy warning splash screens delaying your gaming time etc
Mobile is pretty quick so the platform is something worth investigating if it really bothers you!
Game installed on HDD:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBlFHuCzPgY
Game installed on NVMe:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SSDZHZHYvM&t=15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBlFHuCzPgY
Game installed on NVMe:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SSDZHZHYvM&t=15
The only modern console with this problem is the Xbox One, it's a horrendously designed system at OS level. The UI has way too many tiles/tabs, the use of distinct apps for certain features is cumbersome, installs take far too long, it's just a complete mess. They might have panicked and backed away from the 'always online' concept before launch, but it's very much alive in the OS. The Xbox One is not a system that was meant to be used the way it is.
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