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Poetic.Injustice · Nov 16, 2013

FluxWaveZ said:
I don't understand. Catherine's models looked gorgeous, so if a Persona 5's models were graphically comparable to Catherine's, I'm not sure how that would ruin their image as the models being primary way the characters' looks are conveyed instead of static portraits (that may or may not blink and/or move their mouths).

Haven't played Catherine, But looking at some videos on Youtube where they're sitting on the table and talking, You don't really see their expressions. That would make me feel detached from the characters in a Persona game.

I also doubt Persona 5's budget is gonna allow them to realistically model every conversation.

RecursiveFault · Nov 16, 2013

Lord Scrambles said:
The talking heads are one of the things that give Persona games their charm, I would not want them gone...

maybe if they were slightly more animated...slightly... like if they talked along with the dialogue...but it'd have to be animated better than in arena.

Ew, I dunno. Most cut-ins like that I know of that are animated are rather disturbing. Especially since usually only eyes and mouths are moving.

Lord Scrambles · Nov 16, 2013

buddha0991 said:

Hey there little buddy, I heard you like cold.

GamingBird · Nov 17, 2013

Poetic.Injustice said:
I do wonder how they're going to handle the presentation of the game. Talking portraits taking up 20 % of the screen would strike me as backwards if it's an HD game.

Then again, I doubt they're going to have the 3D models looking good enough to let the players focus solely on them. Kind of ruins it, since the player would feel detached from the characters.

Akiba's Trip 2 has static portraits with blinking eyes and moving mouths... its on the PS3 and the Vita so its definitely HD. It still looks pretty nice and all and doesn't really backwards.

Moonlight · Nov 17, 2013

Honestly, I really have no problems with 80+ hours of staring at clean Soejima artwork cut-ins.

Lord Scrambles · Nov 17, 2013

Mrgoodwil said:
Ew, I dunno. Most cut-ins like that I know of that are animated are rather disturbing. Especially since usually only eyes and mouths are moving.

persona cut-ins are animated and they're not that creepy.

idk, I was spitballin' for a possible solution to people thinking that the cut-ins are too old school.

FluxWaveZ · Nov 17, 2013

Poetic.Injustice said:
Haven't played Catherine, But looking at some videos on Youtube where they're sitting on the table and talking, You don't really see their expressions. That would make me feel detached from the characters in a Persona game.

I also doubt Persona 5's budget is gonna allow them to realistically model every conversation.

Disagree completely:

I don't see it. I think you should play it rather than judging it via compressed Youtube videos because Persona has nothing on how dynamic and animated the models in Catherine are.

And I don't think the budget contrivance is reasonable here. Not every model animation would be handcrafted to fit every single situation and there would be several canned animations to fit general moments just like Catherine or any other game of its type does.

RecursiveFault · Nov 17, 2013

Lord Scrambles said:
persona cut-ins are animated and they're not that creepy.

idk, I was spitballin' for a possible solution to people thinking that the cut-ins are too old school.

Don't take it to heart or anything, it's a solid suggestion. I just prefer Persona cut-ins as they are now, where they will change between sets of dialogue, but not animate mouth movement. Any more seems to dive a bit into the Uncanny Valley for me.

CrazyDude · Nov 17, 2013

FluxWaveZ said:
Disagree completely:

I don't see it. I think you should play it rather than judging it via compressed Youtube videos because Persona has nothing on how dynamic and animated the models in Catherine are.

And I don't think the budget contrivance is reasonable here. Not every model animation would be handcrafted to fit every single situation and there would be several canned animations to fit general moments just like Catherine or any other game of its type does.

I still don't think it would fit persona.

cj_iwakura · Nov 17, 2013

FluxWaveZ said:
Disagree completely:

I don't see it. I think you should play it rather than judging it via compressed Youtube videos because Persona has nothing on how dynamic and animated the models in Catherine are.

And I don't think the budget contrivance is reasonable here. Not every model animation would be handcrafted to fit every single situation and there would be several canned animations to fit general moments just like Catherine or any other game of its type does.

What really blows my mind is how much Catherine resonated outside of the Persona crowd. I knew people who never play video games that were talking about it.

FluxWaveZ · Nov 17, 2013

CrazyDude said:
I still don't think it would fit persona.

Sure, but that's not what I was talking about.

I don't know whether or not I would want portraits to stay in a Persona 5 or not. I'd probably have to see examples of both used to see which I'd prefer.

Soriku · Nov 17, 2013

CrazyDude said:
I still don't think it would fit persona.

You wouldn't know till those type of scenes are used and you see for yourself. They're not going to continue with portrait/textbox scenes with limited animation forever, although I expect them to use a mix.

As a similar example, Tales games used to have cutscenes similar to Persona's up to like...Vesperia. But the ones after it are way better in terms of presentation and cutscenes, and the games are more gripping.

Caladrius · Nov 17, 2013

I'd be okay with 3D only but I don't think the characters wouldn't look as ~uguu~ as they would in their 2D portraits.

Gazoinks · Nov 17, 2013

AndroidAwakening said:
What about something akin to the "live 2D" mode of some JRPGs recently? Like Summon Night 5 or Conception I and II? The 2D portraits become animated and they move around while talking/interacting. I really hope that is the case as it will look really really good.

Only thing I really want from P5's portraits is more body language. I really like P2 & P3's portraits because the characters take a lot of different positions. They lean over, they turn around, the put their hands to their mouths. In P4 the portraits are mostly the same body positions with different faces.

I'd be fine with animation or portraits, really. Maybe animation for more dynamic scenes and portraits for straight dialog, whatever.

buddha0991 · Nov 17, 2013

Gazoinks said:
Only thing I really want from P5's portraits is more body language. I really like P2 & P3's portraits because the characters take a lot of different positions. They lean over, they turn around, the put their hands to their mouths. In P4 the portraits are mostly the same body positions with different faces.

XiaNaphryz · Nov 17, 2013

Gazoinks said:
Only thing I really want from P5's portraits is more body language. I really like P2 & P3's portraits because the characters take a lot of different positions. They lean over, they turn around, the put their hands to their mouths. In P4 the portraits are mostly the same body positions with different faces.

I'd be fine with animation or portraits, really. Maybe animation for more dynamic scenes and portraits for straight dialog, whatever.

If anything, a game like AA5 shows you can be just as expressive with 3d models animation-wise for both faces and body language as any good 2D title.

Gazoinks · Nov 17, 2013

XiaNaphryz said:
If anything, a game like AA5 shows you can be just as expressive with 3d models animation-wise for both faces and body language as any good 2D title.

Definitely. There's probably more you can do with them if anything, it's mostly a stylistic thing. Especially when the art is stylized or cartoony so you don't have to fear plunging into the uncanny valley headfirst.

Tamanon · Nov 17, 2013

I just want better angry and crying animations. Chie's crying animation was pretty comical.

Moonlight · Nov 17, 2013

buddha0991 said:

Probably the best expression in P2. Rivaled only by Eikichi.

Caladrius · Nov 17, 2013

Let's never forget the best SMT expression ever:

Gotta love the "Did I just step in dog shit!?" expression.

Moonlight · Nov 17, 2013

Lol, that motherfucker.

RecursiveFault · Nov 17, 2013

Navarre is so useless to the overall plot of the game. He's like the antagonist to bond the rest of the group but nothing else- and he's on a lot of promotional art.

Is there a more disposable character in any of the games?

Squire · Nov 17, 2013

Caladrious said:
Let's never forget the best SMT expression ever:

Gotta love the "Did I just step in dog shit!?" expression.

What is the context of that line? I must know.

Lord Scrambles · Nov 17, 2013

Gazoinks said:
Only thing I really want from P5's portraits is more body language. I really like P2 & P3's portraits because the characters take a lot of different positions. They lean over, they turn around, the put their hands to their mouths. In P4 the portraits are mostly the same body positions with different faces.

The only problem with Persona 3 style dynamic portraits is that since there were only a limited amount, they would have to use some really dramatic ones for average situations

Fuuka:

...

Me: Jesus Fuuka what happened, did you get shot? Why the hell does our dorm have to be in the ghetto anyway?

Fuuka:

No, I'm fine we just ran out of cream cheese.

Me: ...

Otherwise, they are pretty good, though. lol

mrjohill · Nov 17, 2013

New OT on the eve of the persona 5 reveal sounds about right

Caladrius · Nov 17, 2013

Inorigo said:
What is the context of that line? I must know.

It isn't ever actually said. That scene either takes place after one of the training missions or when Hope tells him off. I don't precisely remember.

Gazoinks · Nov 17, 2013

Lord Scrambles said:
The only problem with Persona 3 style dynamic portraits is that since there were only a limited amount, they would have to use some really dramatic ones for average situations.

Yeah, P2 did a better job of that, but as a trade off they were much smaller.

Speaking of Persona 3 and ghettos:

Did anyone else find it really weird when Yuki and Junpei headed into the ghetto and got saved by Shinji? I mean, they'd been fighting Shadows for months at that point! Surely they could defend themselves from some random thugs?

CrazyDude · Nov 17, 2013

Gazoinks said:
Yeah, P2 did a better job of that, but as a trade off they were much smaller.

Speaking of Persona 3 and ghettos:

Did anyone else find it really weird when Yuki and Junpei headed into the ghetto and got saved by Shinji? I mean, they'd been fighting Shadows for months at that point! Surely they could defend themselves from some random thugs?

Maybe they are powerless in the normal world?

FluxWaveZ · Nov 17, 2013

CrazyDude said:
Maybe they are powerless in the normal world?

They summon their Personas in the real world all the time.

Edit: As well as their innate physical abilities via the Persona powers they gain as explained in P2, like Gazoinks mentions below.

That's why that scene also bothered me in the original P3, and similarly so when Chie was cornered by those bullies in P4. I just think of it as them not using their Persona powers unless they need to.

Gazoinks · Nov 17, 2013

CrazyDude said:
Maybe they are powerless in the normal world?

But... they fight with weapons. Yuki can even fight with his fists.

Necrovex · Nov 17, 2013

I dunno, when I played Catherine, I was very mixed on it. On one hand, I loved the presentation, writing, music, and adventure-esque gameplay; on the other hand, I hated the puzzle mechanics.

I've thought about returning to it, two years after the fact. My gaming taste may appreciate the puzzles more now.

CrazyDude · Nov 17, 2013

Gazoinks said:
But... they fight with weapons. Yuki can even fight with his fists.

They gain super strength and agility which they promptly lose after returning to the real world. How else do explain how a 10 year old that can somehow physically beat monsters?

Squire · Nov 17, 2013

Necrovex said:
I dunno, when I played Catherine, I was very mixed on it. On one hand, I loved the presentation, writing, music, and adventure-esque gameplay; on the other hand, I hated the puzzle mechanics.

I've thought about returning to it, two years after the fact. My gaming taste may appreciate the puzzles more now.

Pushing blocks is lame.

Sorry, Atlus.

Lord Scrambles · Nov 17, 2013

CrazyDude said:
They gain super strength and agility which they promptly lose after returning to the real world. How else do explain how a 10 year can somehow physically beat monsters?

Or Chie can kick said monsters/people into the atmosphere.

buddha0991 · Nov 17, 2013

Inorigo said:
Pushing blocks is lame.

Sorry, Atlus.

I liked the game

CrazyDude · Nov 17, 2013

buddha0991 said:
I liked the game

That's cause you are a blockhead.

Caladrius · Nov 17, 2013

buddha0991 said:
I liked the game

CrazyDude said:
That's cause you are a blockhead.

Persona fans are such cards.

Squire · Nov 17, 2013

buddha0991 said:
I liked the game

I don't dislike it, but that gameplay isn't fun for me.

Edit: Or interesting.

Dante Morgan · Nov 17, 2013

Great, a new thread! Seems like the perfect place to join the discussion. Hi people!

I happened to get Catherine thanks to PS+. It's been on my hard drive for over half a year now, and I still haven't finished it. The story really appeals to me, but I agree with what Inorigo said: pushing blocks just isn't all that much fun. Might give it another go one of these days though, if I ever find the time.

jello44 · Nov 17, 2013

Caladrious said:
Let's never forget the best SMT expression ever:

Gotta love the "Did I just step in dog shit!?" expression.

The funny thing is, that would be something Navarre would say.

Or "Filthy Peasants" one or the other.

Either way, Navarre sucks.

Dante Morgan said:
Great, a new thread! Seems like the perfect place to join the discussion. Hi people!

I happened to get Catherine thanks to PS+. It's been on my hard drive for over half a year now, and I still haven't finished it. The story really appeals to me, but I agree with what Inorigo said: pushing blocks just isn't all that much fun. Might give it another go one of these days though, if I ever find the time.

Try this.

This is the only difficulty not actually selectable on the main menu by default. To play on "Very Easy", hold down the Back/Select button for a few seconds on the main screen (highlighting "Golden Theater"). After you hear a tone, select 'Easy' mode, which will now be Very Easy. You can switch between Easy and Very Easy as much as you want during the game.

Even if you don't like the block pushing, that should get you through the game super easy and you can experience the story.

Squire · Nov 17, 2013

jello44 said:
The funny thing is, that would be something Navarre would say.

Or "Filthy Peasants" one or the other.

Either way, Navarre sucks.

Try this.

Even if you don't like the block pushing, that should get you through the game super easy and you can experience the story.

You could've told me this was thing, Jello...

TurnipFritters · Nov 17, 2013

FluxWaveZ said:
They summon their Personas in the real world all the time.

Do they? I only remember

Medea

popping up in the real world and it was

berserking

. (I guess I'm not counting the evolution scenes because they appear without being evoked so I feel like that's less "We are literally summoning our Personas above our heads" and more "this is an illustration of what is happening in this character's mind at this moment")

I am also of the impression that the P4 characters can't summon outside the TV at all - partly because the bullies in Chie's Slink and partly because of that time Rise is like "Yeah I can't sense people outside the TV so"

Poetic.Injustice · Nov 17, 2013

TurnipFritters said:
Do they? I only remember

Medea

popping up in the real world and it was

berserking

. (I guess I'm not counting the evolution scenes because they appear without being evoked so I feel like that's less "We are literally summoning our Personas above our heads" and more "this is an illustration of what is happening in this character's mind at this moment")

I am also of the impression that the P4 characters can't summon outside the TV at all - partly because the bullies in Chie's Slink and partly because of that time Rise is like "Yeah I can't sense people outside the TV so"

How about Chidori's persona trying to kill her?

FluxWaveZ · Nov 17, 2013

TurnipFritters said:
Do they? I only remember

Medea

popping up in the real world and it was

berserking

. (I guess I'm not counting the evolution scenes because they appear without being evoked)

In Persona 3? I'm all but certain.

I count "outside" of Tartarus as the real world and Personas are summoned outside of Tartarus all the time in P3, but if "Dark Hour" doesn't count as the real world, I think there might have been one or two moments in P3 where a Persona is used outside of Tartarus and outside of the Dark Hour (a scene with Fuuka using her Persona comes to mind, but that might be a false memory). Medea's a supporting example, but then again one could say it represents more of a user interacting inwardly than outwardly.

If it never occurs outside of the Dark Hour, I guess the only games that could be used as evidence of Persona use in the real world are P1, P2, P4A and P4A2.

TurnipFritters · Nov 17, 2013

FluxWaveZ said:
In Persona 3? I'm all but certain.

I count "outside" of Tartarus as the real world and Personas are summoned outside of Tartarus all the time in P3, but if "Dark Hour" doesn't count as the real world, I think there might have been one or two moments in P3 where a Persona is used outside of Tartarus and outside of the Dark Hour (a scene with Fuuka using her Persona comes to mind, but that might be a false memory).

If it never occurs outside of the Dark Hour, I guess the only games that could be used as evidence of Persona use in the real world are P1, P2, P4A and P4A2.

I remember the Fuuka scene, because I remember someone walks in the room and they're surprised because shes has her Persona out.

I'm not counting P1 and P2 with the same rules as P3 and P4 - the series changed in a lot of ways and trying to reconcile the different aspects of them isn't going to work out well.

Ultimately I think it's important for us to understand that we nerds on the internet care more about these dumb details than the developers do.

Moonlight · Nov 17, 2013

FluxWaveZ said:
(a scene with Fuuka using her Persona comes to mind, but that might be a false memory)

That happened in the Dark Hour, while she was looking for Ken (immediately before the fateful confrontation with

Shinjiro & Takaya

). I would strongly disagree simply being outside Tartarus counts as 'the real world'. I don't think there's much examples at all of the characters being empowered by their Personae outside of those specific conditions.

PK Gaming · Nov 17, 2013

Dantis said:
Set your expectations low. The soundtrack is amazing and the gameplay is as good as ever (Seeing as it's just P3 but a little harder), but there's barely any plot and what little there is kind of ruins P3.

The last boss is great though. And boy, what a song to finish up on.

Thanks!

I actually had the opposite experience. The gameplay is repetitive and a total grindfest, but the plot is good and the extra bit of characterization added to the characters is appreciated.

FluxWaveZ · Nov 17, 2013

TurnipFritters said:
I am also of the impression that the P4 characters can't summon outside the TV at all - partly because the bullies in Chie's Slink and partly because of that time Rise is like "Yeah I can't sense people outside the TV so"

Yeah, those scenes wouldn't make much sense if they could summon their Personas in the real world and I feel like Teddie or someone would have used it in some comedic scene if that was the case.

TurnipFritters said:
I'm not counting P1 and P2 with the same rules as P3 and P4 - the series changed in a lot of ways and trying to reconcile the different aspects of them isn't going to work out well.

Ultimately I think it's important for us to understand that we nerds on the internet care more about these dumb details than the developers do.

Sure, and since there are no clear rules either way that leaves the writers to establish them later if they so desire or just retcon stuff. The developers stating that the P4A series is canon could just imply that Personas can indeed be summoned in the real world.

pan-hime · Nov 17, 2013

Looking into unused music/voices, specifically in Persona 3.

creepy set of tracks in The Voice Someone Calls (actually can be heard in P3's 17-minute promo)
Victory theme (placeholder)
Master of Tartarus with...strange vocals (can also be heard in the 17-minute promo)
a Burn My Dread mix (also in P4's disc)

voices

Yukari giving you study guides
Toriumi convo after you passed out for a week
Makoto and Aigis calling every SEES' persona.

There's more, but can't find any on youtube.

PK Gaming · Nov 17, 2013

There's also that scene where the gang decides to split up and spy on Kanji / watch the shop, and if you decide to go with Yosuke, Chie interjects with "but what if we run into trouble" or something those lines.

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