Why not? You like being a character who can't speak and has to nod and shake his head in response to everything? And who tries to communicate by waving his arms around but without making a sound, and then SOMEHOW, whoever he's trying to communicate understands him??
I mean look at this!! - http://youtu.be/EVeCS8XE4yE?t=4m38s
It's ridicules!! A silent Link worked fine in the past, but now that they're trying to make him communicate, then he needs to TALK!!
By this definition, every open-world game save Elder Scrolls is linear and "barely" open-world. I think your definition of "open-world" is flawed. It simply means one big connected world without levels or jarring loading screens. Dark Souls is open-world, Zelda is open-world, etc.
... but there are 'levels' in Dark Souls, and most of the time they have to be tackled in a specific order to make any sort of progress in the game. The game has an abundance of locked doors, hard bosses and story blocked paths that must be overcome one by one before you can proceed in the direction the developer's want you to. Just because the levels have some interconnection and are able to be backtracked throughout, doesn't follow on that the game is therefore "open world" - I riposte that your definition is far too open. Dark Souls merely takes level selection and translates it into paths that you have to navigate rather than a menu. This is why the Demon's Souls Nexus system is arguably superior because it takes away the monotonous slog back to base camp that is a frequent occurrence in Dark Souls.
But oh well, I don't care to argue further about what's obviously semantics.
I really can not understand the GAF hate for Twilight Princess. Outside the atrocious intro village x fishing sequence, I thought the game was overall excellent. The over world may have been flat, but there were tons of dungeons, and not just regular dungeons, but many a top the pinnacle of 3D level design.
I unfortunately never played Skyward Sword, and loved and hated Wind Waker up until the triforce hunt where I hung up my green mittens.
I really can not understand the GAF hate for Twilight Princess. Outside the atrocious intro village x fishing sequence, I thought the game was overall excellent. The over world may have been flat, but there were tons of dungeons, and not just regular dungeons, but many a top the pinnacle of 3D level design.
I unfortunately never played Skyward Sword, and loved and hated Wind Waker up until the triforce hunt where I hung up my green mittens.
Why not? You like being a character who can't speak and has to nod and shake his head in response to everything? And who tries to communicate by waving his arms around but without making a sound, and then SOMEHOW, whoever he's trying to communicate understands him??
Yes, actually I think a lot of people like that. Good expressions are universal. Having a speaking voice and dialogue creates a fixed character. Not in Zelda kthx.
they're saying all the right things, and not in a way that comes every time blah blah...it feels like Aonuma is getting it/receptive to feedback here. couldn't be more hyped at a new cycle where we wait a year or two just for a name/banner, haha
also: a lot've thought/stress has been put on dungeon complexity/layout the last few games, and that's where the meat of the game's been, which has been cool but i really hope (based on this) the overworld is that new emphasis. just playing stuff like minish lately, with its relatively tiny but packed overworld was so cool, as it was literally begging to be explored.
it's not a gimmicky when the game is actually built for a certain control (unlike say TP wii), so no, a port of SS without proper motion controls would be broken, i'd not hold my breath
That's only because western devs are taking the easy way out by designing open world games. Lazy stuff like filling the map up with icons of pointless activities that are more chores than fun. There's no written rule that says that HAS to happen though.
I really can not understand the GAF hate for Twilight Princess. Outside the atrocious intro village x fishing sequence, I thought the game was overall excellent. The over world may have been flat, but there were tons of dungeons, and not just regular dungeons, but many a top the pinnacle of 3D level design.
I unfortunately never played Skyward Sword, and loved and hated Wind Waker up until the triforce hunt where I hung up my green mittens.
i too gave up on it early; past the awful intro town but before the usual 3rd dungeon to master sword, as the combo of the pacing, light bug collection etc just pushed me back to Okami at the time.
im quite glad i returned to it (and on GC as well) because it got better as it went and became a great game overall, but i do undrestand those that didn't keep going, sadly. and yeah shiki, you gotta play SS sometime.
I really can not understand the GAF hate for Twilight Princess. Outside the atrocious intro village x fishing sequence, I thought the game was overall excellent. The over world may have been flat, but there were tons of dungeons, and not just regular dungeons, but many a top the pinnacle of 3D level design.
I unfortunately never played Skyward Sword, and loved and hated Wind Waker up until the triforce hunt where I hung up my green mittens.
I think I would have liked Twilight Princess a lot more if it had been my first 3D Zelda title, but it wasn't, and I had a serious case of "I've done this before," way more than I have for any other 3D Zelda. It's a good game but it doesn't define its own identity enough I feel.
The 3 dungeon-plot twist-3 dungeon-final area formula is pretty worn thin at this point. I want them to have an active plot that introduces new scenarios every so often.
I just hope they realize that people over the age of 5 play their games and don't need their hands held all the time or hour long tutorials on how to play their game. Part of why people love OoT so much is the way you just were given a world and even though you had navi constantly asking for you to listen to her, you never really had to.
I remember when I first play OoT it took me awhile to find the sword and I had fun just messing with the controls and seeing what I could do in the world. Finding out how to use the jump system you were rewarded with money and the world and dungeons encouraged you to actually play with it's systems and explore. Thats the magic feeling I think has been lost and hopefully they realize this and will work towards building something more in that vein.
Also I hope they don't go the multiplayer route like whats been hinted at. Zelda games are ones I like to enjoy at my own pace as I take in the world and characters and would hate for them to waste time making a decent entry into the franchise instead of a great one.
You like being a character who can't speak and has to nod and shake his head in response to everything? And who tries to communicate by waving his arms around but without making a sound, and then SOMEHOW, whoever he's trying to communicate understands him??
I just hope they realize that people over the age of 5 play their games and don't need their hands held all the time or hour long tutorials on how to play their game. Part of why people love OoT so much is the way you just were given a world and even though you had navi constantly asking for you to listen to her, you never really had to.
I remember when I first play OoT it took me awhile to find the sword and I had fun just messing with the controls and seeing what I could do in the world. Finding out how to use the jump system you were rewarded with money and the world and dungeons encouraged you to actually play with it's systems and explore. Thats the magic feeling I think has been lost and hopefully they realize this and will work towards building something more in that vein.
Also I hope they don't go the multiplayer route like whats been hinted at. Zelda games are ones I like to enjoy at my own pace as I take in the world and characters and would hate for them to waste time making a decent entry into the franchise instead of a great one.
Only thing I want from future Zelda titles is to provide a dungeon within the first hour. 4-5 hours of dicking about in a village is mind numbingly dull. I liked TP but it made it so hard to replay as it felt like so much of the intro to that game was just extraneous and boring.
I actually liked most of the rest of the in between dungeon stuff in the game, although it was perhaps a little clunky in areas. I was immediately put off by the much discussed lead in time in SS that I never played it. I tried it on Dolphin and loved the look, but had performance/motion plus issues and didn't have the heart to try it at 480p after that.
Only thing I want from future Zelda titles is to provide a dungeon within the first hour. 4-5 hours of dicking about in a village is mind numbingly dull. I liked TP but it made it so hard to replay as it felt like so much of the intro to that game was just extraneous and boring.
I actually liked most of the rest of the in between dungeon stuff in the game, although it was perhaps a little clunky in areas. I was immediately put off by the much discussed lead in time in SS that I never played it. I tried it on Dolphin and loved the look, but had performance/motion plus issues and didn't have the heart to try it at 480p after that.
You can get out of Skyloft within an hour on your first playthrough if you don't dick around, and the surface areas are essentially nothing but dungeon; the outdoors areas before the dungeons proper are like light dungeons. Then intro to Skyward Sword is pretty much all plot and character and world building. Twilight Princess was by far the worst Zelda intro.
A return to OoT levels of speediness with getting to the first dungeon would be nice, though. If you're gonna make the player wait, do something interesting with the time, like Majora's Mask did (or Wind Waker tried to do, unfortunately stealth in Zelda is garbage).
yeah this. start Link off with no sword or shield and no tutorial or indication on what to do next and let the player figure it out on their own. The latest Zelda games have been a bit to front heavy with tutorials.
I don't think Skyward Sword had much in the way of tutorials, its actual problems lie in shit like your helper character stopping you to point out a boss door in the fifth fucking dungeon.
A return to OoT levels of speediness with getting to the first dungeon would be nice, though. If you're gonna make the player wait, do something interesting with the time, like Majora's Mask did (or Wind Waker tried to do, unfortunately stealth in Zelda is garbage).
A more open world would definitely be nice. Like Hyrule Field in OOT really expanded. Xenoblade/X type of scale if possible. Would be nice just "stumbling" into dungeons where not needed for plot advancement.....
No voiced characters beyond their little grunts, plase.
I hope they actually go through with this rather than just saying they are. I'd like for them to do this or something similar:
Do what they want to do. Don't do what's expected of them(Ironic, but I mean this both from the fans and the corporate heads. Let them make it how they want to make it. Let them go crazy with it)
Change the theme up. I think Skyward Sword was a good direction, but I want to see something different in terms of environments. I'm not saying steam punk like everyone wants, but I just don't want a style we've seen before.
Change the story. Part of why I love Majora's Mask and it's my favorite is that it's so weird. It's so different. There's pretty much no Zelda. There's no Ganon. Some will say 'You have to have Zelda it's the Legend of Zelda', but you don't. They just can't change the name at this point because it's too iconic.
You know how there's bombs, boomerangs, hookshots, etc? Fuck that. Do completely different items. I thought the flying beatle thing was a step in the right direction
The 'crafting' system in Skyward Sword was dumb. Don't do that again. Or make it better.
Let me jump. I'm sure I'll get shit for this, but I wouldn't mind some well done platforming in a Zelda game.
Motion controls optional. Again, I'll probably get shit for this one and it's completely my own bias, but I'd just rather play like a typical game for this aspect.
I'm sure I could 'Zelda wishlist' all day, but my main thing is changing the theme and changing the story.
Why not? You like being a character who can't speak and has to nod and shake his head in response to everything? And who tries to communicate by waving his arms around but without making a sound, and then SOMEHOW, whoever he's trying to communicate understands him??
I mean look at this!! - http://youtu.be/EVeCS8XE4yE?t=4m38s
It's ridicules!! A silent Link worked fine in the past, but now that they're trying to make him communicate, then he needs to TALK!!
No voiced characters beyond their little grunts, plase.
I hope they actually go through with this rather than just saying they are. I'd like for them to do this or something similar:
•Do what they want to do. Don't do what's expected of them(Ironic, but I mean this both from the fans and the corporate heads. Let them make it how they want to make it. Let them go crazy with it)
•Change the theme up. I think Skyward Sword was a good direction, but I want to see something different in terms of environments. I'm not saying steam punk like everyone wants, but I just don't want a style we've seen before.
•Change the story. Part of why I love Majora's Mask and it's my favorite is that it's so weird. It's so different. There's pretty much no Zelda. There's no Ganon. Some will say 'You have to have Zelda it's the Legend of Zelda', but you don't. They just can't change the name at this point because it's too iconic.
•You know how there's bombs, boomerangs, hookshots, etc? Fuck that. Do completely different items. I thought the flying beatle thing was a step in the right direction
•The 'crafting' system in Skyward Sword was dumb. Don't do that again. Or make it better.
•Let me jump. I'm sure I'll get shit for this, but I wouldn't mind some well done platforming in a Zelda game.
•Motion controls optional. Again, I'll probably get shit for this one and it's completely my own bias, but I'd just rather play like a typical game for this aspect.
I'm sure I could 'Zelda wishlist' all day, but my main thing is changing the theme and changing the story.
And how would adding voice acting be detrimental? If Nintendo are serious about rethinking Zelda, the best place to start would be to up the production value to a standard expected - nay, required - of them.
yeah this. start Link off with no sword or shield and no tutorial or indication on what to do next and let the player figure it out on their own. The latest Zelda games have been a bit to front heavy with tutorials.
A return to OoT levels of speediness with getting to the first dungeon would be nice, though. If you're gonna make the player wait, do something interesting with the time, like Majora's Mask did (or Wind Waker tried to do, unfortunately stealth in Zelda is garbage).
Well, Skyward Sword's intro is all plot, which is interesting. If you're replaying the game you can skip the stuff since you already know it. With Majora's Mask the first 3 day cycle isn't much better in terms of giving you real stuff to do. You have to find the missing Great Fairy, shoot down a balloon, play hide and seek with the Bombers, go to the Astral Laboratory and get the moon tear, and barter for the title deed so you can get up to the clock tower. Skyward Sword has you
meet Zelda, meet Groose, get a sword, go through a cave to find your bird, compete in the Wing Ceremony, plot, follow Fi to the goddess sword.
And how would adding voice acting be detrimental? If Nintendo are serious about rethinking Zelda, the best place to start would be to up the production value to a standard expected - nay, required - of them.
I think there's a certain charm to the player "filling in" the dialogue by themselves. It helps define the world in a way. Hearing Zelda speak english would be terrible.
Having them "speak" gibberish (read: Hyrulian) could possibly work. But I would much rather them focus their efforts elsewhere.
I love the idea of going back to a wide open kind of Zelda, more like the first game. But I can see how it will be hard to make it work.
So many puzzles in modern zelda games are very dependent on items from previous dungeons.... They would have to change the way they design puzzles to make them interesting without making them totally item-dependent. They would also have to change the kinds of advantages items give so that they are more optional.
Maybe they could make items that allow you to skip certain difficult areas in dungeons if you have them, but it would still be possible to get through the dungeon anyway. The idea of dungeons with multiple/optional paths is interesting but it will be very complex to design. They'll have to increase the base difficulty to make it work, I think, which would be a good thing anyway.
yeah this. start Link off with no sword or shield and no tutorial or indication on what to do next and let the player figure it out on their own. The latest Zelda games have been a bit to front heavy with tutorials.
In Skyward Sword you start with no sword and no shield. You are looking for your bird and just told to look around for clues to find it. Eventually you need a sword to progress, you find where a sword is, you take the sword, no tutorial, you just run off and start using it.
It should be if it means a regression in puzzle complexity. If you're complaining about the series getting stale, why would you want it to go back to the very basic default puzzle design that every Zelda has; pushing blocks, finding keys, shooting switches. People complain because they can't do the dungeons in any order and they complain that dungeon items aren't used enough outside of the dungeons they come from. These complaints are completely at odds with each other.
At least Skyward Sword finally got rid of most of the block pushing, and it didn't rely on keys very much.
To be honest I'd take a really good, semi-open overworld that has a loose push on where to go over pushing the limits of what can be done with items in dungeons. However, I noted before they can make sure you can't even get to the dungeon entrance without using the items necessary in it, which is what Zelda traditionally did to force a certain order before deciding to erect plot gates. And more of the items could be gotten outside of dungeons too, thus making it more a matter of what you tackled in the open-ish world up to that point.
Plus the fan base IS all over the place, there'll be those who value really good dungeon design above all else, those who want badass combat, those who want a rich world to explore... It's why it's impossible to please everyone now, best they can do is take turns unless they happen to find a good balance.
And how would adding voice acting be detrimental? If Nintendo are serious about rethinking Zelda, the best place to start would be to up the production value to a standard expected - nay, required - of them.
I don't think as many people REALLY care about some of this stuff as it may seem, and even after Kid Icarus and FE I'd be kind of scared of how a fully/mostly VA'd Zelda would be. Though even if you do do that, well, you don't need to ALSO voice Link in turn.
Even though there weren't any screen or vids, and no launch date...for some reason this was the announcement that meant the most to me besides WW HD. Zelda going straight back to its roots is what I've been waiting for for quite some time...it's like a warm fuzzy hug.
