PapaJustify
Member
Yeah, and they should be understood as two different things. Reads "Open world, or at least less linear."
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Zelda Wii U announced - "Rethink the conventions of Zelda"
- Thread starter PapaJustify
- Start date
Yeah, and they should be understood as two different things. Reads "Open world, or at least less linear."
Obviously you didn't play Skyward Sword:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRbROTdOgj0
There you go. Zelda got an orchestrated soundtrack two years ago dude.
Chet Rippo
Member
Some music tracks just don't need to be orchestrated. I think Skyward Sword struck the right balance as far as music goes.
I didn't think Skyward Sword's orchestrated music was amazing to be honest. Maybe it's just because of the tracks themselves, but I didn't find it to be all that memorable and most of the tracks didn't stand out as much as I thought they would. I really enjoyed the game, but the music was surprisingly one of the low points.
Skyward Sword had pretty much the same balance between synth/orchestra as Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 did. No issues whatsoever.
Net_Wrecker
Member
I think it's too late for voice acting. It would just be weird at this point. What they need to do is ease up on the pages and pages of exposition + tutorial dialogue, and use more visual + environmental storytelling. They should tap into silent character storytelling that animators sometimes use. Very expressive faces, music cues, etc. It would do more than any voice actor would.
A Link to the Past provided most of the conventions that powered the games that came after it. The NES games were rather different from it.
King of the Potato People
Member
It's been a lot of times people have hyped a great reinvention of Zelda. I'm not falling for it again, Zelda had its prime in the N64 era.
I dunno. Part of me feels like the Galaxy games hit a better mark because it was "POPPY AND SPACE" and shit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oaf2gUhy74o Stuff like this.
It just felt a bit jarring when you went from something really grandeur like The Sky theme and wound up in midi land Eldin Volcano.
Ironic that depending on how they handle dungeons (are they looking at stuff like Elder Scrolls, or are they specifically looking at older Zeldas?) this might be moving back towards LttP than the most recent games have. And this gives me hope that I can tackle things more like LttP or OoT, just finding equipment and items in a semi-open world as I want to find them, even if there's clear points I HAVE to have them for. It'd give legitimacy to the 3 initial dungeons - twist - next set of dungeons breakdown anyway, as locking you down to those first three initially serves as a warm up. Actually, I bet they could limit it to just two now: one in a small area you can't get out of, a second in a larger area you can move around, then 3 to 8 or whatever are only in a loose order you have to tackle, but it doesn't really matter so long as you get the right items.
Ironically, I think you'd have a better argument that Zelda ultimately veered away from the NES games from Majora's Mask or Wind Waker onward despite still being like LttP and OoT: if you directly compare something like TP or SS directly to Zelda 1 you'd find much less in common with it than LttP or OoT.
Eldin Volcano had a fucking shit theme, and I've blocked it from my memory. I'd like to imagine it doesn't count.
...the desert music was brilliant though. That was synth/orch mix done right.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
This the Nintendo Direct tidbit that has me the most excited. But I also have a sinking feeling that I'll end up disappointed.
Noooo, you tell me guys that this is fake right? That's fake or excellent marketing?
The 2 obvious (and only) flaws of Zelda games are their linearity and the hand holding and now you tell me the next one's focus is to get rid of that?
DREAM GET !!
The 2 obvious (and only) flaws of Zelda games are their linearity and the hand holding and now you tell me the next one's focus is to get rid of that?
DREAM GET !!
I fear I might be Santa Claus
It's true. And yeah, of course I did. But the truth is that when I wrote that post I didn't even remember. Maybe the Skyward Sword score isn't as epic as the previous Zelda titles, or maybe this is because it is a partially orchestrated soundtrack, I don't know, but after playing Skyward Sword there wasn't a song that I said "wow, I want that song in my iTunes library now!". In contrast, I can easily think of epic songs of Ocarina of Time, Twilight Princess and Wind Waker soundtracks (and I have the orchestrated versions of some of them which were made later).
And the feeling is the same with Mario Galaxy, I have half of the soundtrack in my iPod. What a work of art.
The idea that older Zeldas let you do whatever you wanted is false. Even with the first game the dungeons were numbered to let you know the correct order, and even though you could sequence break, you still needed items to access/complete certain dungeons. Increased linearity came from increased puzzle and item complexity. It's certainly a lot easier to be less linear when your puzzles consist mostly of finding a key, killing all of the enemies in a room, and pushing blocks.
And when do you decide that it's guaranteed? Under what arbitrary condition?
Even to the point that you are arguing against me on claims I didn't make.
2 modes please:
1. I am a grandma and need help
2. I know what I'm doing, I got this!
Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, Mario, most 16-bit platformers.
NOTHING on the direct presentation points to "Open world". NOTHING.
They even said that they are avoiding "things that people take for granted" and you people take for granted open world ? =P
Nobody played Skyward Sword because it isn't internet cool to do that yet.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Skyward Sword made you feel extremely boxed in. You basically went from dungeon to dungeon with a boring sky overworld. Granted I'm not done with yet, but I have 35 hours in and I don't expect it to change.
Supermanisdead
Member
I can't wait until the Zelda cycle redeems Skyward Sword.
Shadow of the Colossus had exposition given by the god(s) between every colossus and at the end. There was nobody else to talk to so of course there was little dialog. Mario has no plot importance. Ico just had Yorda untranslated. You could understand all the other characters who talked, and there was a replay mode that translated Yorda's speech.
Untranslated or no dialog wouldn't work very well in a game like Zelda since it's more rpg-like in nature and its worlds tend to be more lived-in. It'd be pretty hard to do character-driven branching or side quests without text. They should keep the text less verbose, though.
Then it's a happy accident from technical limitations, as has frequently happened. Somewhat ironic admittedly to talk about how technological restrictions gave us more open gameplay versus the inverse, but that's how it usually goes with games anyway.
At any rate, just because something was born out of necessity doesn't mean it NEEDS to be thrown out without the limitations there anymore, carrot cake for example hasn't exactly vanished despite the fact no one needs to use carrots in place of sugar in this day and age. Granted they'll also use sugar in that nowadays, but that's kind of the thing I think: look back to what was good from when you're forced under constraints, and augment that rather than discard it. I also honestly haven't really been as engaged with puzzle solving in Zelda like I have been with getting to explore the world and get stuff, especially as the smaller tighter focus makes it more fun than Elder Scrolls just throwing in a load of crap.
EDIT: Actually, I have to admit part of the fun IS being "naughty", taking a dungeon's item, then bailing and going to the next one without completing it.
I agree.
Note that a game can be "open world" and still have progression that is structured in a completely linear way, with no freedom as to which dungeon/area you go to in order to move your story forward. Skyrim was open world, but progression of the game's story was completely linear.
What was stated was that they wanted to allow the player to choose the order that they complete dungeons. One scenario that meets the previously stated criterion is that they structure a portion of the game linearly, until you've seen most of the world, and then when the player reaches the second round of temples (think Forest, Fire, Water, Shadow, Spirit in OOT), they let the player approach each of the dungeons in whatever order they please. It's also worth mentioning that this is not too far off from choosing between going to Spirit Temple or Shadow Temple first in OOT.
Exactly why I think this Zelda will NOT be open world
Haunted
Member
Well, 5 years between TP and SS. So, probably 2016.
I'm probably in the minority whom considers MM to be the best and my favorite Zelda. That is the most appealing direction the next Zelda can go in, in my opinion. Furthermore, I don't want a spiritual successor to MM, however, I would like to see a return of despair and imminent doom interlaced within the game world and its characters.
And they'll justify it by saying that they gave us WW HD this year.
Fuck it, Phantom Hourglass aside I've always been able to squeeze ENOUGH enjoyment out of the series even when I was disappointed with how a game turned out, so I'll stick until they somehow manage a streak of Phantom Hourglasses. And somehow the closest game (Spirit Tracks) managed to avoid that.
Anyways, open world can be somewhat granular, I know bringing up Dark Souls will make some cringe but Namco Bandai did advertise that as one, and by proxy you could easily say Metroid-styled games are a type of open world. With only a few exceptions Zelda's always been further along the "open world" scale than those, especially as until fairly recently your main obstacle was whatever items you had on hand, not arbitrary blocks except at a few key points.
If the Zelda Wii U title manages to recreate a similar tone to MM, I would buy a WiiU for it. MM's atmosphere was so consistently brilliant and it always felt like you had a burden on yourself (literally in the form of the moon). I really need to play that again as well...
You can probably blame this one yourself and listening to Fi, because you can go wherever you want to go at any time except some very specific places I won't spoil here.
am I the only one that mid game just decided to screw the mission and explore the sky?
I must say as much as I'm of the opinion of VA or no go for me, I do agree with Duckroll and others who say they should reduce all the dialogue.
However so long as there is a story and characters interact I need a voice anymore, but reducing the amount from Skyward Sword/Twilight Princess levels is A-okay with me.
However so long as there is a story and characters interact I need a voice anymore, but reducing the amount from Skyward Sword/Twilight Princess levels is A-okay with me.
skyward sword is basically super mario galaxy as a zelda game. the world down below is essentially all dungeons surrounding smaller, more condensed dungeons. meanwhile, the actual overworld is really just a hubworld.
The sense of urgency didn't come from some spirit constantly nagging you, it came from the the situation itself. The towns people, the despair, and the brilliant time travel/3 days mechanism. Brilliant stuff. Severely underrated. Best Zelda game of all time and thus to me GOAT.
I see 2015 but 2016 is possible.
You always had to do dungeons in a specific order unless I just needed to bail on a dungeon after getting the item, and even if that's possible the first two hold hostage stones that unlock more of the world for you (though keeping it more rail roaded at the beginning stages actually doesn't bother me, though needing those stones kind of does).
Interestingly even the design for the outdoors areas CAN feel a lot like a platformer where they took away the jump button. It's almost like Skyward Sword is actually the real Super Mario 64 2.
It should be if it means a regression in puzzle complexity. If you're complaining about the series getting stale, why would you want it to go back to the very basic default puzzle design that every Zelda has; pushing blocks, finding keys, shooting switches. People complain because they can't do the dungeons in any order and they complain that dungeon items aren't used enough outside of the dungeons they come from. These complaints are completely at odds with each other.
At least Skyward Sword finally got rid of most of the block pushing, and it didn't rely on keys very much.
Solid SOAP
Member
I hope the non-linear aspect implies that there will be more of an effort to create a "world" for Link to explore with real people ala Majora's Mask, not just having to do with dungeon order although that is certainly a plus.
ChimpBottle
Member
The Zelda team can easily recapture the dreadful atmosphere of MM. Are darker themes apart of the Zelda identity is the question they probably struggle with. I believe the answer to that question is unfortunately no and the Zelda team probably agrees. Therefore, I doubt we will ever see a Zelda game that addresses despair and melancholy ever again.
ChimpBottle
Member
The number one Zelda game on my wishlist is a game starring The Hero of Time for the last time. It can take place in a brand new location or Hyrule again (both would be amazing) but I think his story needs an ending that's more conclusive than Majora's Mask. I'd love to see his death, (though I would likely cry). I would also love to see him find Navi.