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An important statement from Naughty Dog

F

FinalAres

Member
There's a chance that his being fired had nothing to do with his claims of being sexually harassed, and that the $20k hush money was a redundancy package. I'm not saying I think that's what happened, but it's a possibility.

But even in that situation, which is a bit of a stretch, that changes nothing about whether he was sexually harassed. And he just wouldn't lie about that. I really hope a follow up from ND deals with this properly.
 
Self_Destructive

Self_Destructive

Member
Resident_UA said:
It’s also possible that the employee is lying... Any reason why people forget that it’s a possibility? I’m not saying that he is, I just find it weird that people overlook this possibility...
Click to expand...

Yea, it's possible... however it's unlikely. I mean, he's putting his entire career and any future jobs on the line. If he's found to be lying.. no game company in the world is going to hire this guy.
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Nice corporate response there. And with this response it's pretty transparent what and why the HR did there. He told to a HR employee and the HR reacted very fast to fire him before he got a chance to file an official complain.

That HR person was a scum and a perfect employee for Sony's interests.
 
S

SprachBrooks

Member
I don’t see how the accused can even keep evidence of this? If the records aren’t at ND or Sony then I don’t expect David to have the necessary documentation to prove that a discussion was had over the sexual assault. This is why sexual assault is so problematic—not only is it deeply traumatic for the individual that suffers from it but they rarely can give empirical evidence of the event. It’s a systemic issue that needs to be addressed through a complete reworking of HR policy.
 
P

-Pyromaniac-

Member
CaviarMeths said:
Really, it comes across as more of a dismissal than a denial.
Click to expand...

does it though?

What this shows me is that as soon as the allegations went up they immediately launched an internal investigation.

I think they were just uncomfortable with letting the public think they weren't looking into it so they needed this statement to show that they did.

OF COURSE they could be lying but if they are it will come out. Fuck that HR person though if the guy really is telling the truth and they just did zero work to document it.
 
A

Apathy

Member
Could very well be that both are telling the truth, that they don't have a record of it because the person he spoke to didn't take it down (and that would be bad for the hr person).

That being said, they had to have gone and looked for it before putting out this statement because if they didn't then the backlash would be huge.
 
S

Sad Affleck

Member
The only thing that could force the issue and get Sony to really act is Weinstein-like mass allegations by a number of developers that were the subject of sexual harassment. Otherwise this will be swept under the rug and forgotten since in these cases it is almost impossible to find proof. This is how the status quo is maintained and why victims are afraid to speak out, at least those who didn't take the hush money.
 
T

Thorrgal

Member
Abflab said:
I'm not sure you guys understand how this stuff works at large companies. There are several designated channels for receiving harassment claims, and mountains of record-keeping that go on. It's official, developed, and orderly.

All ND is saying here, likely, is that those official avenues have no evidence of allegations.

If you want to assume cover-up without any evidence, have at it, but HR people that screw this up expose the company to enormous legal jeopardy, and risk their own livelihoods. The odds are far greater that he didn't properly report it, and was let go for an unrelated reason.

He could be telling his truth here, without it being THE truth.
Click to expand...

As someone working in a big corporation I can attest to that.

Edit: Not sure that the odds are far greater that he was let go for an unrelated reason. I agree that he probably didn't report it properly though
 
J

Justified

Member
AyaisMUsikWhore said:
Complete PR response. Someone definitely contacted PR and told them to make a statement. The person who probably made this , did this in their PJs. Nonetheless, all of this is so fishy not because Sony and ND are flat out saying they have no evidence, but now the victim is on the tail end of now having to present evidence that proves that dirty dealings was done outside of official channels...which then could blow this whole thing up.
Click to expand...

I dont know what prompt him to come out with the statement yesterday, but you better be prepared when you call out a major corporation .

Prepared with evidence, or to become a very polarizing figure
 
Q

Quonny

Member
SprachBrooks said:
I don’t see how the accused can even keep evidence of this? If the records aren’t at ND or Sony then I don’t expect David to have the necessary documentation to prove that a discussion was had over the sexual assault. This is why sexual assault is so problematic—not only is it deeply traumatic for the individual that suffers from it but they rarely can give empirical evidence of the event. It’s a systemic issue that needs to be addressed through a complete reworking of HR policy.
Click to expand...
If he had an email simply about the complaint that is more than enough to completely dismantle this ND response. The fact that they released this statement shows he does not have any such email.
 
M

Metfanant

Member
Kaako said:
I do wonder if proper looking into this matter was done from all angles. Almost seems too fast from a such a serious accusation as this one.
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What they are saying they did was pull the guy's personnel records and look to see if he ever filed a complaint, they don't have a complaint on file...

that is ALL they are saying
 
M

McMoneyman

Member
Without knowing all the details I don't wanna say too much. But it's pretty sad reading the replies on Naughty Dog's statement on Twitter. People going: "Phew I'm glad nothing happened at Naughty Dog because I really love your games" instead of thinking about the victim in question, Mr Ballard.
 
M

Marcel

Member
Putting yourself out there for a lie would make you an untouchable in the industry so it would be completely stupid for this guy who apparently loves working on games to do that. Let's hope it isn't the case.
 
B

Boke1879

Member
AyaisMUsikWhore said:
Complete PR response. Someone definitely contacted PR and told them to make a statement. The person who probably made this , did this in their PJs. Nonetheless, all of this is so fishy not because Sony and ND are flat out saying they have no evidence, but now the victim is on the tail end of now having to present evidence that proves that dirty dealings was done outside of official channels...which then could blow this whole thing up.
Click to expand...

Nah, I'm be shocked if they didn't have lawyers looking through the files also and helping with the statement. It's a complete Legal PR statement.

This isn't something someone just woke up and bullshitted together.
 
C

camac002

Member
autoduelist said:
Well, I mean, some here are assuming worst case scenario, and yes, at that point, this would all be a coverup. Generally speaking, though, there would be many people aware of a harassment charge and it's not like you need to search hard to find it. You don't need Poirot to find documentation, you just walk into HR and ask for a file. Beyond scanning his emails, talking to those in contact with him, etc, i'm not sure what kind of investigation can happen?

Corporations often give severance, and make you sign for it. I know because I've gotten it more than once [part of IT team being cut down post-completion], in that same monetary ball park. So it's possible the 'bribe' part was just SOP, and those involved in offering it had no idea why the HR person recommended him for firing. He'd think it was a bribe, but those offering it wouldn't have any idea it was since they wouldn't know the real reason he was being let go.
Click to expand...

I'm curious about this too. And if certain key personnel from HR etc. are no longer employed by them, do they have any real power to conduct an investigation? They certainly could ask those people but if they deny, then what?
 
GHG

GHG

Member
Boke1879 said:
Hell dude at my company. Even though HR was there to protect the management. I emailed him about just how shit my executive director was. But he would always reply. "I need something more concrete etc".

So I had a paper trail. I had some emails, but do you think he filed any sort of complaint?
Click to expand...

I posed this in the other thread:

----

Based on the tweets it looks like the chain of events went like this:

- He's sexually harassed but doesn't report/act on it.
- He then later has a mental breakdown at work
- Manager/other staff members report this incident to HR. At this stage the situation might be discussed between HR and his manager. There is the possibility that at this stage they can decide that there is no coming back from this incident and that they want to get rid of him
- HR talk to him figure out what happened from his side and to figure out if he's fit to continue working there
- It looks like at this stage he decides to tell them about the sexual harrasment.
 
Q

Quonny

Member
-Pyromaniac- said:
does it though?

What this shows me is that as soon as the allegations went up they immediately launched an internal investigation.

I think they were just uncomfortable with letting the public think they weren't looking into it so they needed this statement to show that they did.

OF COURSE they could be lying but if they are it will come out. Fuck that HR person though if the guy really is telling the truth and they just did zero work to document it.
Click to expand...
I think we read completely different statements. This statement claims that the victim never even complained about sexual harassment. There was no investigation because they never knew about it. It’s a big claim that’s easy to disprove, granted the victim has an email, text message, voicemail, something.
 
M

mrk8885

Banned
I’m curious to see what happens next. Obviously it’s 2017 so all of you are already prepared to tear down ND and Sony over twitter accusations. To say they have no evidence of allegations is a rather bold statement, to me at least.

I’m not saying it didn’t happen. But man this 2017 trend of jumping right in to tear people down is a bit crazy. Let the process play out.


Perhaps he has clear cut evidence of a Sony and ND cover up.

Or perhaps it’s really a baseless accusation by a guy who can’t get a job in the industry anymore.


I know it’s not cool or PC to talk about, especially in 2017, but false accusations are still a thing too.
 
entremet

entremet

Member
Maintenance said:
Came in expecting something else, got this instead.

I really thought they would come clean.
Click to expand...

Corporations coming clean from one accusation without evidence over a weekend? That rarely happens.

If they find something or Ballard has a smoking gun, they would settle privately.
 
B

Boke1879

Member
Random Human said:
So they launched and completed an investigation into this on Saturday night? Those are some investigators.
Click to expand...

Well yea. All you have to do is look through your files for a complaint etc. They claim they have no record. I assume that was the extent of it.

They aren't going to contact Ballard. He's not an employee anymore and this isn't a criminal investigation. They MIGHT have called some people that were employed at the time and asked if they heard anything.
 
R

Resident_UA

Member
Remij said:
Yea, it's possible... however it's unlikely. I mean, he's putting his entire career and any future jobs on the line. If he's found to be lying.. no game company in the world is going to hire this guy.
Click to expand...
What is there to loose? He’s been without job for a while for a reason...
 
F

Fiendcode

Member
True or not the optics of this speedy denial aren’t great for ND and a better, more carefully crafted response should’ve been done. Seems like a case of bad PR following bad HR.
 
-BLITZ-

-BLITZ-

Member
There wasn't any report because it was of the fear of doing so, as fear and harassment emotions are already build inside the victim with no easy control to stand up and do something, he retread in his pain. The most basic logic that exist for such victims and you come with this excuse "there weren't any reports" kinda of answer. Usually, a defense answer with a real truth doesn't start with such sentence. I really want to see the motive why he was fired.
 
M

Marcel

Member
Sad Affleck said:
I am not at all surprised to see that this statement was enough for some people to side with the corporation.
Click to expand...

It's Sony and Naughty Dog so you should not be surprised at all. Some people here act like they are the fucking messiah of all entertainment.
 
ByWatterson

ByWatterson

Member
Marcel said:
Putting yourself out there for a lie would make you an untouchable in the industry so it would be completely stupid for this guy who apparently loves working on games to do that. Let's hope it isn't the case.
Click to expand...

Sounds like he's already untouchable, though. 17 months out of work is a LONG time.
 
T

Trojan

Member
Justified said:
I dont know what prompt him to come out with the statement yesterday, but you better be prepared when you call out a major corporation .

Prepared with evidence, or to become a very polarizing figure
Click to expand...

Yea, it's a positive development when people expose these types of stories, but at the same time people need to understand the additional scrutiny it will put under. ND actually gave a quick and forceful denial because they don't want this to fester any more than it already has. And the fact that they're on record saying it wasn't reported means they're ready to go to court on this if necessary.
 
S

Skii

Member
They fired the guy before he could put in an official complaint. Of course there is no evidence. Sneaky Sony.
 
Q

Quonny

Member
Fiendcode said:
True or not the optics of this speedy denial aren’t great for ND and a better, more carefully crafted response should’ve been done. Seems like a case of bad PR following bad HR.
Click to expand...
I mean, if they really don’t have any complaint, what are they supposed to do? Sit on it and then release the same statement 72 hours later?

They looked. It didn’t take much time because it’s incredibly easy to track down a specific email address or look through a digital database of employee complaints. They didn’t find anything. That’s it.
 
F

Feorax

Member
Maintenance said:
Came in expecting something else, got this instead.

I really thought they would come clean.
Click to expand...

Absolutely baffling.

If they've genuinely not found anything on record at all, are people expecting them to just go "oh well, it will be good PR if we just admit liability anyway"?

Even if you believe the victim, and there's no reason I would suggest not to, these things are still messy and horrible processes that inevitably go through certain processes. This won't just be resolved overnight.
 
L

L Thammy

Member
I'm trying to visualize the experience of having harassment happen to you, having it swept under the rug, being fired, not getting work for a year and a half, finally working up the courage to talk about your experience, and then having people doubt you because you don't have a job.
 
M

Marcel

Member
Abflab said:
Sounds like he's already untouchable, though. 17 months out of work is a LONG time.
Click to expand...

Like I said earlier, a journalist who can conduct interviews of past employees to corroborate the victim's claims would be the most effective means of making his case in lieu of e-mail or call logs. But I doubt there is a game journalist brave enough to forego their industry access to do this.
 
L

Lady Gaia

Member
Monkeyball said:
And now the impossible part, proving it. The dude is screwed.
Click to expand...

All he has to do is point out that if he was being let go there must be an email trail leading up to the decision. The trail would have to start earlier than the day he claims to have made his complaint and be corroborated by recipients. Layoffs don’t start and end over a 24 hour period.

Unless he explicitly asks and thereby grants permission to discuss it publicly, Naughty Dog won’t comment on employment issues for legal liability reasons.
 
Strangelove77

Strangelove77

Member
I think people are going to be extremely disappointed by the outcome if it shows that ND/Sony aren't the corporate devils out to silence and push around the little guys and the accuser isn't a lying conniving mastermind threateneing to topple your favorite developer over greed.
People on the internet want someone to hate and shit on. You love blood and shaming others. You might not get it. It seems very likely right now.
 
B

Boke1879

Member
Fiendcode said:
True or not the optics of this speedy denial aren’t great for ND and a better, more carefully crafted response should’ve been done. Seems like a case of bad PR following bad HR.
Click to expand...

I don't really think you guys understand how this works. This is like the safest response they can offer.

What did you expect them to say?
 
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