ThatOneGrunt
Member
Huh. Starting to look dated actually. First time I've ever thought that about Driveclub.
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Driveclub still has the best environments and vegetation in any racing game
- Thread starter TheVampire
- Start date
pretty done
Member
It's simply flabbergasting that Sony doesn't patch titles like Driveclub and The Order 1886, considering they're supposed to be visual showcase games.
Don't worry tho, Knack got that Pro patch.
FunkyDealer
Banned
It does look good. But then it is windowdressing for a linear track.
Dictator93
Member
Yeah, I am gonna call BS on this one.
icecold1983
Member
hes right about the vegetation. on my 1440p monitor it doesnt start to look clean until i use 4x trssaa which murders performance in addition to completely breaking any semblance of frame pacing
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
That's certainly more indicative, although they obviously aren't showing the game in a flattering light.
bad IQ is bad
Self_Destructive
Member
I'll call bullshit on this one. This is likely a problem with your setup and not the game.
Baraka Obama
Banned
What?
icecold1983
Member
I'll call bullshit on this one. This is likely a problem with your setup and not the game.
yeah mean good call. its my setup causing more aliasing than yours!!!!
Dictator93
Member
I fail to see how one can say what he says about IQ (regardless of vegetation or not) in relation to the thread topic at hand, FH3 vis-á-vis DC.
Every part of FH3's IQ is better than DCs, the TAA in DC is not exactly known for its coverage at all.
icecold1983
Member
well forza has no aa at all on vegetation, so in that aspect its worse than DC in terms of IQ. also DCs use of sprites for some vegetation mitigates a lot of aliasing too
Self_Destructive
Member
Yea... I mean, you claim a bunch of shit, but leave out a million important details.
Your screen is 1440p, what res you running the game at? Are you using DSR?
You're suffering performance and frame pacing issues.. what's your GPU? You have gsync? You have fps locked, or unlocked? Using RTSS?
There's a lot of reasons why YOU could see more aliasing and terrible pacing issues.
dr_rus
Member
Instead of using TRSSAA (which is kinda surprising to even hear as working for a D3D12 engine) you should just up the res scale.
Dictator93
Member
Doesn't FH3 on console also use FXAA? It is applying PPAA to vegetation then.
Also, the claim that DC's vegetation uses sprites really does not seem to exactly be a great argument, as any mip / and LOD system for vegetation invariably uses imposters and sprites, especially on consoles.
Just looking at this:
You can see lots of single pixel details in between branches which would change every single frame, which is aliasing to the highest degree.
i do find this amusing when the game we're comparing it to is DC lol
icecold1983
Member
using the dsr equivalent of 4x trssaa destroys performance even more and im only looking for foliage aa. the msaa works well on everything else already. ive yet to see a game trssaa doesnt work in btw
Doesn't FH3 on console also use FXAA? It is applying PPAA to vegetation then.
Also, the claim that DC's vegetation uses sprites really does not seem to exactly be a great argument, as any mip / and LOD system for vegetation invariably uses imposters and sprites, especially on consoles.
Just looking at this:
You can see lots of single pixel details in between branches which would change every single frame, which is aliasing to the highest degree.
not saying DC is great, just better than forza which has the white speckles to a far greater degree despite being at a higher resolution
Funny that you imply it's the 2D trees that makes environments in other racing game look bad when most of the foliage/leaves in Driveclub are actually 2D. 2D foliage alone doesn't make foliage look bad, because through Driveclub you can see how a well implemented 2D solution looks like.
https://youtu.be/xXh3An0M_Ko
https://youtu.be/KZjY02TfyeM
https://youtu.be/xXh3An0M_Ko
https://youtu.be/KZjY02TfyeM
Dictator93
Member
Like the specular response on the foliage itself?
Do you have any images of what you mean? I am not having an easy time finding this viual blemish the console screenshots I am finding for FH3, especially vis-a-vis a comparison to DC's foliage.
FXAA also has the side-effect of darkening bright pixels...
Yeah, does TrSSAA in driver even work in DX12? That would be pretty surprising!
Seems like the same usual folks in here bashing the game. In Motion...It Looked and moved Amazing. Realistic colors..detailed environments... etc.
I'll just say I haven't had the feeling of the races I got from DriveClub in any other game in a while.. or from watching clips for upcoming games.
From start to finish in a race Driveclub felt like a rollercoster ride. The sense of speed was ridiculous and at times frightening.
LOVED competing online.
I'll just say I haven't had the feeling of the races I got from DriveClub in any other game in a while.. or from watching clips for upcoming games.
From start to finish in a race Driveclub felt like a rollercoster ride. The sense of speed was ridiculous and at times frightening.
LOVED competing online.
Chronospherics
Member
Agree with this. I played Forza 7 at EGX today and it just doesn't look as believable. The environments look pretty clean, and almost barren. Driveclub just looks better overall. The lighting and whatnot look a little odd too, In Forza. Things like the flashes of lightening, and glare you get from the sun, look incredibly realistic in Driveclub, and Forza 7's version was just underwhelming when comparing the two.
Self_Destructive
Member
This is what I'm wondering as well.
All I'm going to say is that I can play Forza Horizon 3 at 4K, with 8xMSAA and 4xTrSSAA and lock the fps to 30 on my PC, and I don't have any frame pacing issues. The image quality is insane, and I can't see any real aliasing anywhere, especially on the foliage. It's fucking sublime... and Driveclub... simply could not even come close.
My PC:
1080Ti OC 190+core 450+mem
6700K @ 4.7Ghz
32GB DDR4 Mem
icecold1983
Member
have you played both games? better judged in motion
its not specular. aliasing in foliage usually comes across as white speckles unless you use fxaa, which changes the way the aliasing appears, but actually increases the amt of shimmer
trssaa absolutely works
stop playing at 30 fps and let me know how your frame pacing fares with that high level of trssaa
TheAdmiester
Member
Why should we stop playing at 30FPS when the comparison is being drawn to another 30FPS game?
pretty done
Member
No fucking shit :lol
Driveclub is using the specs of a $250 base PS4. Your PC is like $1300 minimum. If FH3 didn't look better then there would be a pretty big issue.
Inf3cted_b3ast
Member
Lol Driveclub is not perfect in terms of it's visuals but when it all comes together, It is the best looking racing game out there. Every game has it's worst parts. DC at it's best looks better than any other racer at their best. It's a shame it never got patched for the Ps4 Pro.
NullPointer
Member
That's really it, for me too. Evo really pulled out every trick in the book to provide those sensations. From all the subtle and not so subtle effects, especially in cockpit view, to the design of the tracks, and the ever looming expansive backdrops.
Duallusion
Member
Great post; agreed on all points.
And people can seriously shove that "corridor/tunnel racer" remarks where the sun don't shine. Nowadays all we get is either yet another open world racer or we get to drive on another set of real world tracks we've been driving on for 20+ years now. Yeah, fine, I like those kind of racers too, but what happened to memorable, unique racing tracks like we had in NFS4/Porsche Unleashed? It took 15 fucking years for a game to scratch that NFS-of-old itch for me (PGR series was wonderful but had only city tracks) so, again, fuck that stupid "corridor racer" diss and whoever came up with it.
Oh and screw you too, Sony; for shutting down Evo. We could all be playing DC2 by now (not to mention the Pro-enhanced original) and I'll never forgive you shortsighted schmucks for depriving me of that joy.
Self_Destructive
Member
This was my question as well. lol
He mocks me for saying that maybe perhaps his issues are specific to his PC. He said the foliage was an aliased mess on his PC 1440p and isn't clean until 4xTrSSAA. So he admits the IQ can be fixed. Then, his next point is that it results in him having performance and framepacing issues.
Well, I state that I'm able to run the game at those settings with 30fps and absolutely no framepacing issues... The IQ is indeed impeccable, and then he tells me that I'm not seeing the IQ and Performance issues because... I'm locking the fps to the same as Driveclub.. lmao
This of course is all disregarding the fact that even at a fraction of these settings, the IQ in Forza Horizon 3 destroys Driveclub.
Yea, I love games that look amazing in one instance and completely average in the next. /s
NullPointer
Member
If you want games that offer you truly dynamic conditions and features like global illumination, you have to accept that there will be some amazing highs and some dreary lows, depending. As far as I know that's always been the case.
Its also why I don't expect something like Project Cars 2 to win any graphics wars, but I wouldn't have it any other way.
I know we have these graphics threads where we look at particular visuals in isolation, but ultimately you really can't divorce the presentation from the technical trade-offs made in each game, whether that's sims with baked lighting or dynamic conditions, open world games or 30fps, all of which come with their own demands and benefits.
Inf3cted_b3ast
Member
This was my question as well. lol
He mocks me for saying that maybe perhaps his issues are specific to his PC. He said the foliage was an aliased mess on his PC 1440p and isn't clean until 4xTrSSAA. So he admits the IQ can be fixed. Then, his next point is that it results in him having performance and framepacing issues.
Well, I state that I'm able to run the game at those settings with 30fps and absolutely no framepacing issues... The IQ is indeed impeccable, and then he tells me that I'm not seeing the IQ and Performance issues because... I'm locking the fps to the same as Driveclub.. lmao
This of course is all disregarding the fact that even at a fraction of these settings, the IQ in Forza Horizon 3 destroys Driveclub.
Yea, I love games that look amazing in one instance and completely average in the next. /s
All these racing games have parts that look bad.
Self_Destructive
Member
For sure. I can admit Forza Horizon 3 has it's flaws and areas to improve. It's why I said before that I think it's the best overall looking racing/driving game...taking everything into account. Like, the open world, the amount of cars and content, the full day/night cycle, and weather effects. Add the IQ and performance of the PC, and you have the best looking, playing, and most fun racing game this generation.
Inf3cted_b3ast
Member
I have played FH3 and no I don't think it overall looks better than Driveclub. Just my opinion.
icecold1983
Member
because having to give up the absolute biggest advantage(by far) pcs offer over consoles just to achieve clean IQ defeats the entire purpose of me gaming on PC in the first place
dr_rus
Member
You don't need to use DSR 4x, just use the game's own res scaling. Something like 150% is already good enough to fix most of foliage aliasing. I don't know how it is now, but prior to the last round of patches FH3 ran way better for me with no MSAA and 200% res scale than with MSAA 4x and 100% res.
TrSSAA doesn't work in any game which is using alpha to coverage on it's transparent textures. Which is like 90% of modern games which support MSAA.
Edit: No, wait, I just checked and it doesn't have a res scale, I was thinking of something else. Then yeah, DSR res is the only choice.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
in all the games (DC, FH3, F7, GTS, PC2 ..) there are pieces of scenery appalling...
GTS
etc...
At least they found a way to reuse the old PS1 models into the game.
You could buy a console bundled with like 4 games this fall for the price of his DDR4 RAM. Probably have enough money left over to sign up for EA Access. lol
hell, i would do that build too. jelly asf
icecold1983
Member
msaa is definitely preferred in FH3 for me. to surpass msaa stability with DSR is well over 150%. dsr4k on my 1440p monitor is more shimmery than even 2x msaa. msaa is also pretty damn cheap perf wise in FH3. what games have you noticed that trssaa doesnt work in? if i own any of them ill go test
TheAdmiester
Member
The question wasn't whether or not PC gaming has a purpose, the question was whether or not foliage aliasing could be eliminated.
Kabuki Waq
Member
There are certain times during gameplay where the game looks insane. The rest of the time the game just looks decent. Photomode is very deceiving imo.
icecold1983
Member
i didnt say it couldnt be eliminated
also people are blowing driveclubs issues way out of proportion using misleading screenshots. due to the way driveclubs aa works, it isnt captured properly in screenshots
http://gamersyde.com/news_we_reviewed_driveclub-15933_en.html
tons of videos here, including the track that that often spread screenshot is from where it looks completely fine in motion. i also made sure none of the videos there have the weather patch which "hides all teh bad grafix"
icecold1983
Member
oops dp
Self_Destructive
Member
Nah, it does look pretty bad there. Must be watching different videos.
marcbret87
Member
To be honest, I was quite disappointed with the game overall. The graphics in motion looked nowhere near as good as many of the photos or gifs that I saw online. Sure, some scenery is gorgeous, but in the end of the day it's 30 fps. It really doesn't look that good in motion.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
PeterLegend
Member
Game looks good especially when weather kicks in, downside is when it rains i cant see shit, therefore the driving experience is not as fun
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
Agreed and its still one of my favorite games. 😎 Although nowadays I spend most of my time playing the VR version which doesnt look as good but is way more fun to play.
icecold1983
Member
i said people are blowing it out of proportion posting screens like this
not that its nonexistant or not noticeable
that screen is constantly posted and is not representative of the visual experience
also from the link i posted
+ Visually remarkable 90% of the time
+ Incredibly rich cloud simulation system (with more weather effects on the way)
+ Beautiful landscapes galore
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
i said people are blowing it out of proportion posting screens like this
not that its nonexistant or not noticeable
that screen is constantly posted and is not representative of the visual experience
so post a better screen of that location?