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cakefoo · Mar 12, 2011

NullPointer said:
I'd argue that your eyes do the same during a game of Shift, and that you're aided subtly by the blur effects.

Not really. I can shake or nod my head really fast and stay locked onto a still object pretty well. My head is telling my brain how it's moving and my brain is telling my eyes how to counter that movement. If I tried staying locked onto a randomly moving paddle I'd have a harder time because eyes just don't work as smoothly when they're tracking unpredictable external movement.

The thing is, when it comes to these games I crave feedback mechanisms. I want the car to communicate as much as possible to me within the confines of a 2D audio/visual and rumble experience. So, listening to the revs and exhaust, the tire squeals to let you know the limits of grip, the shift of the car (or camera) to show weight transfer, camera shake for stability and suspension, blur to enhance the sense of the speed and rumble for surface conditions. Basically the more information the game can send you the better imo, and this is why I still prefer Shift's cockpit view to other racers, because there is more being said by the visuals and audio.

Forza and GT5's cockpits aren't the best, but I would still prefer them over Shift's exaggerated, hard to follow mess. They seem to lack somewhat in communicating the suspension, whereas Shift overcompensates a great deal. Personally, I just prefer the hood/roof cam because it provides pure car-to-road feedback with no artificial disruptions. But if I had to choose, I'd say the disruptions are far more distracting and less helpful in the Shift series, hands-down.

RSTEIN · Mar 12, 2011

phosphor112 said:
What does score and public view of a game have to do with anything?

I'm not talking about public opinion. The conclusion of professional video game reviewers is that FM3 is better than GT5. All the head-to-head pieces and review scores all come out on top for FM3.

If sales reflect public opinion then clearly GT5 wins.

cakefoo · Mar 12, 2011

RSTEIN said:
I'm not talking about public opinion. The conclusion of professional video game reviewers is that FM3 is better than GT5. All the head-to-head pieces and review scores all come out on top for FM3.

If sales reflect public opinion then clearly GT5 wins.

paskowitz was referring to driving model/physics only. Most reviewers don't even really touch on the physics in detail, because they can't articulate what they feel or what they expect from a driving sim because they're not enthusiasts.

1-D_FTW · Mar 12, 2011

That's gotta be the dumbest comparison video ever. Comparison videos are supposed to show identical footage for comparison. Not only can't you compare physics this way, you can't even compare graphics.

DaBuddaDa said:
The jerk-camera in Shift 2 is vomit enduing. Seriously, why would you want to play a game that did that to your brain.

Do you mean the violence? rFactor can have a pretty violent camera and I actually like games that do this. Driving a race car is violent. It should be jarring.

paskowitz · Mar 12, 2011

RSTEIN said:
I agree with you that no Logitech support really sucks.

But why do you say that GT5 is superior to Forza 3? As has already been discussed to death in the Forza 3 vs. GT5 thread, all the head-to-head pieces that have compared the two series all vote in favor of Forza 3 (as of the last time I looked, see the thread for the list). Plus, the GameRankings.com score for Forza 3 stands at 92% vs. 84% for GT5. Your opinion that GT5 is the better game is not the opinion shared by the gaming press and critics. I'm not sure why your acting like it's some sort of irrefutable truth.

I will explain. First and foremost, 99% of reviewers never understand the point of driving sims and give terribly myopic reviews. Second, it is important to make this distinction. Forza 3 is a FAR superior video game to GT5, in almost every way. Again, almost.

GT5 has 3 things going for it, ambition, the act of driving in the game with a wheel, and the authenticity of both the cars and tracks.

For example, look at the Top Gear review of the Audi R8 v10 and the Corvette ZR1. The Audi is a overall far superior car, but in the end the Corvette is the one that steals your heart. Thats how I feel about GT5. It has soooooo many stupid flaws, but when you get in a ZR1 take it to The Ring at 6am as the sun rises, tires still cold, HUD off, with your G25 in hand the quality of the experience is only rivaled by a select few. I forget my reality that I am sitting in my college dorm room and I realize the dream that I am actually at the Nurburgring. In FM3 I always know I am playing a video game. Most of this is due to (IMO) the cartoony/stylized graphics. The only blemish on this experience in GT5 are the sounds, and the blocky shadows.

GT5 tried to do soooo many things. Weather, day night cycles, rally racing, Nascar, endurance racing, and on and on. And while yes it did fail at some of those, it gets major points for trying when no one else would.

Lastly, I cannot forgive FM3 for absolutely butchering the rendering of certain tracks, particularly The Ring. Making a track that is known for its narrow corners, wider so that "more people can enjoy the game" is just fucking bullshit and really perturbs me. Add to that steering buffer and you have enough provocation for me to justify my opinion.

FM3 was the game that enjoyed but stopped playing, GT5 is the game that sometimes I cannot stand, but keep coming back to.

And for Shift, well, its a game/series that had potential but was invaded by focus groups and marketing. EA has to go around getting racing drivers to talk about "immersive experiences" and "what real racing is" to make this game sound good. Also if you look at the dev interviews, they always say "immersion" not "realism". Well I have got news for you, realism is IMMERSION! Immersion is not a guise for realism. Michael Bay movies are not more "realistic" because they have dramatic camera angles and cool special effects.

While yes, racing drivers do move their heads, its their eyes that are the key element, constantly scanning, focusing on points of interest, looking for not only the apex, but for marbles that may have accumulated on the side of the road, the nuances of the car in front, probing for a weakness, etc, etc. There are so many things that a driver focuses on that trying to replicate the experience with a simple head movement and motion blur is really quite silly. The experience is violent and jarring, not like waking up with a hangover and then suddenly driving a car. At speed every bump is accentuated not to mention if you are in a race car the entire area around is vibrating violently. I know the first time I came out of a shifter kart my entire body was shaking. If anything they should implement a toned down effect like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrxOnYzEOlE

I will leave you with this:

http://dai.ly/h4nuZd
http://dai.ly/dPUEhQ
Still some of the best GT5 videos around.

1-D_FTW · Mar 12, 2011

paskowitz said:
I will explain. First and foremost, 99% of reviewers never understand the point of driving sims and give terribly myopic reviews. Second, it is important to make this distinction. Forza 3 is a FAR superior video game to GT5, in almost every way. Again, almost.

GT5 has 3 things going for it, ambition, the act of driving in the game with a wheel, and the authenticity of both the cars and tracks.

For example, look at the Top Gear review of the Audi R8 v10 and the Corvette ZR1. The Audi is a overall far superior car, but in the end the Corvette is the one that steals your heart. Thats how I feel about GT5. It has soooooo many stupid flaws, but when you get in a ZR1 take it to The Ring at 6am as the sun rises, tires still cold, HUD off, with your G25 in hand the quality of the experience is only rivaled by a select few. I forget my reality that I am sitting in my college dorm room and I realize the dream that I am actually at the Nurburgring. In FM3 I always know I am playing a video game. Most of this is due to (IMO) the cartoony/stylized graphics. The only blemish on this experience in GT5 are the sounds, and the blocky shadows.

GT5 tried to do soooo many things. Weather, day night cycles, rally racing, Nascar, endurance racing, and on and on. And while yes it did fail at some of those, it gets major points for trying when no one else would.

Lastly, I cannot forgive FM3 for absolutely butchering the rendering of certain tracks, particularly The Ring. Making a track that is known for its narrow corners, wider so that "more people can enjoy the game" is just fucking bullshit and really perturbs me. Add to that steering buffer and you have enough provocation for me to justify my opinion.

FM3 was the game that enjoyed but stopped playing, GT5 is the game that sometimes I cannot stand, but keep coming back to.

And for Shift, well, its a game/series that had potential but was invaded by focus groups and marketing. EA has to go around getting racing drivers to talk about "immersive experiences" and "what real racing is" to make this game sound good. Also if you look at the dev interviews, they always say "immersion" not "realism". Well I have got news for you, realism is IMMERSION! Immersion is not a guise for realism. Michael Bay movies are not more "realistic" because they have dramatic camera angles and cool special effects.

While yes, racing drivers do move their heads, its their eyes that are the key element, constantly scanning, focusing on points of interest, looking for not only the apex, but for marbles that may have accumulated on the side of the road, the nuances of the car in front, probing for a weakness, etc, etc. There are so many things that a driver focuses on that trying to replicate the experience with a simple head movement and motion blur is really quite silly.

I will leave you with this:

http://dai.ly/h4nuZd
http://dai.ly/dPUEhQ
Still some of the best GT5 videos around.

But you can actually see a whole lot more in real life than you can in video game cockpits. So if the driver wants to actually tilt his head for corners, I'd say that's a pretty damn good time to look. He, like I, wants to see the upcoming track and not grass. I applaud this most basic instinct.

paskowitz · Mar 12, 2011

1-D_FTW said:
But you can actually see a whole lot more in real life than you can in video game cockpits. So if the driver wants to actually tilt his head for corners, I'd say that's a pretty damn good time to look. He, like I, wants to see the upcoming track and not grass. I applaud this most basic instinct.

But this should be controlled by the driver's physical body movement and not the game, thinking to itself, oh I guess he will look here.

NullPointer · Mar 12, 2011

paskowitz said:
But this should be controlled by the driver's physical body movement and not the game, thinking to itself, oh I guess he will look here.

Its a trade off. A bag of tricks to try and recreate the sense if not the actuality of the moment - it comes down to what the game is trying to convey moment to moment.

GT5 puts you on the track, and I'd agree that morning light on the Nurburgring in your favorite car is as close to driving bliss as I've had in these games. Shift is more about danger, and being inside the cockpit. Forza is a solid and consistent package from end to end, but lacks excitement. That's my take anyway. I find myself bouncing between all of my racing games based upon exactly what I'm looking for at the time.

1-D_FTW · Mar 12, 2011

paskowitz said:
But this should be controlled by the driver's physical body movement and not the game, thinking to itself, oh I guess he will look here.

I'm not sure I get what you're saying. I just appreciate that you don't have sharp turns where you're going half-blind because the camera is pointing in a direction no human would ever be focused on.

RSTEIN · Mar 12, 2011

paskowitz said:
I will explain. First and foremost, 99% of reviewers never understand the point of driving sims and give terribly myopic reviews. Second, it is important to make this distinction. Forza 3 is a FAR superior video game to GT5, in almost every way. Again, almost.

My bad, I thought you were saying GT5 is a better total package (i.e. game) than Forza 3 (an error in my understanding as cakefoo pointed out). As I pointed out this does not align with the consensus of reviewers so I was curious about why you believed what you did. Sorry.

paskowitz · Mar 12, 2011

RSTEIN said:
My bad, I thought you were saying GT5 is a better total package (i.e. game) than Forza 3 (an error in my understanding as cakefoo pointed out). As I pointed out this does not align with the consensus of reviewers so I was curious about why you believed what you did. Sorry.

I have been a GT fan since I started playing video games, but it would be ridiculous to state that as a video game GT5 is better overall than FM3. Even if you were to take opinion out, on a simple factual and numerical basis it is better.

Kaze13 · Mar 12, 2011

paskowitz said:
GT5 has 3 things going for it, ambition, the act of driving in the game with a wheel, and the authenticity of both the cars and tracks.

For example, look at the Top Gear review of the Audi R8 v10 and the Corvette ZR1. The Audi is a overall far superior car, but in the end the Corvette is the one that steals your heart. Thats how I feel about GT5. It has soooooo many stupid flaws, but when you get in a ZR1 take it to The Ring at 6am as the sun rises, tires still cold, HUD off, with your G25 in hand the quality of the experience is only rivaled by a select few. I forget my reality that I am sitting in my college dorm room and I realize the dream that I am actually at the Nurburgring. In FM3 I always know I am playing a video game. Most of this is due to (IMO) the cartoony/stylized graphics. The only blemish on this experience in GT5 are the sounds, and the blocky shadows.

.

Fucking YES! This exactly is what I love about this game. It's not just the Nurb either. I get that feeling even with some of the less articulated tracks. The Nurb does provide that feeling of pure driving bliss though. Nothing else comes close (except reality but I haven't had the pleasure of driving there yet)

Shaneus · Mar 12, 2011

I haven't seen the vid but I've only just read that it's done by DICE aka those behind RSC2. I think that's enough to sell me on it completely, regardless of how it turns out.

Also, if they're making a racing game again, might we see them do something dirt-based?

phosphor112 · Mar 12, 2011

33-Hit-Combo said:
I was mostly getting at how his driving style managed to get him up there on the Nurburg when you mentioned the ring.

The use of kerbs isn't stupid either. If it's dirty or damp it results in a loss of traction sure, but they're cleaned and maintained on a regular basis.

Most strips aren't used on the ring. They are too steep/high.

RSTEIN said:
I'm not talking about public opinion. The conclusion of professional video game reviewers is that FM3 is better than GT5. All the head-to-head pieces and review scores all come out on top for FM3.

If sales reflect public opinion then clearly GT5 wins.

"Professional video game reviewers." Heh, yeah, they are technically pros... they make money, yes they review video games... but there is little merit from those who "professionally review video games."

"What are standards and practices." I'll tell you what they aren't.
Shit like this.

Shit like KZ3 getting low scores for "bad story." So COD has a better story? Really?

Don't get me wrong, I agree, GT has been somewhat stagnant, but some of the reviews for the game were a complete joke. Dragon Age 2 is another example. "Best RPG combat ever." Thanks PC Gamer, The Escapist and friends. Fucking quality. Call me a purist, but this might be just because I've been gaming since the 2600 and I've seen my fair share of shit pancakes, cult classics, and mainstream revolutionaries, but I don't see why people will by shit when it's obviously shit and love it as well.

Come the fuck on, trying to pass of trash like IGN and gamespot as relevant sources for reviewing anything. /rant and yes, I'm very mad.

Oh, and here is a patch to make DA2 look like high res shit, because that's obviously too hard to package in with the fucking game.

saladine1 · Mar 12, 2011

phosphor112 said:
No... physics is objective. Of course, the sensation you get from physics is subjective, but when it is based on an object, it's objective. A ball will always drop at 9.8m/s, just like how a specific car will always lose grip when the variables are all identical.

Yep, sorry, that's what I meant to say.
The thing is though, all so called sim racing games are grounded in real life data. Rfactor, GTR, GT, FM..etc all claim to have the most realistic physics model. Yet, everyone has their own perception of what is right and what is wrong evidenced by the 'fanboism' to each of their respective game. On top of that, you have real racing drivers contributing to those said games and still,each game feels different. That's what I mean by subjective.

A lot of people don't know that the tyre model is a significant factor in determining the overall feel of a car. The older sims are becoming outdated in terms of their tyre profile data whereas Turn 10 for example, is collecting the latest and greatest in the world of tyre data specifically from Perelli. Does that mean FM4 could have the best physics model to date?
Maybe, but again, in the end, the feel of the handling model will inevitably be met with yes and no from a variety of different people and thus, the neverending debate in the world of sims will continue..

Fortinbras · Mar 12, 2011

DaBuddaDa said:
The jerk-camera in Shift 2 is vomit enduing. Seriously, why would you want to play a game that did that to your brain.

Yeah. This video is really cool advertising for FM3 and GT5. Well done EA.

Deadly Cyclone · Mar 12, 2011

Bought Shift recently for cheap on the EA store and it is a great game, I am planning to pick up Shift 2 just based on how much fun the first is.

RomanticHeroX · Mar 12, 2011

The first Shift is the last EA game I've bought. The moment it asked if I wanted to buy a car with credits or spacebucks I took the disc out and took it to Gamestop.

NEOPARADIGM · Mar 12, 2011

My brain somehow confused "Live Action" to mean "Real In-Game Footage."

A bit let down.

benzy · Mar 12, 2011

Shaneus said:
I haven't seen the vid but I've only just read that it's done by DICE aka those behind RSC2. I think that's enough to sell me on it completely, regardless of how it turns out.

It's not really created by DICE. The majority of the game is developed by Slightly Mad Studios, with one of the DICE guys being the executive producer.

Anyway, if the cars are still twitchy like they were in Shift 1 then I think I'll pass.

mrklaw · Mar 12, 2011

I think gt5 and Shift handle in cockpit quite well. I understand the point about the car and your head moving, but your eyes remaining locked on the road. Both games do that by moving the cockpit view but the road view ahead remains fairly stable.

The only really objectionable part of that shift vid is the forward/back movement.

Also bear in mind this is a helmet cam, there is another cockpit cam available

I find it interesting how many SIM enthusiasts want this to be more simmy. I think that is unrealistic to expect - this is EA after all. But they could add additional SIM options I suppose.

But I'm happy if the main criticisms are the speed blur and lack of hardcore SIM modes. Now that PGR is no more, there isn't much that occupies the 'arcadey sim' racer.

saladine1 · Mar 12, 2011

Just a point of reference. Slightly Mad Studios are made up of and headed by guys who gave us GTR2 and GT Legends which should mean that these guys know a thing or two about racing sims...

Cyborg · Mar 12, 2011

What is EA trying to prove?

saladine1 · Mar 12, 2011

Cyborg said:
What is EA trying to prove?

That they have a bigger dick than the rest of the competition...

Always-honest · Mar 12, 2011

Cyborg said:
What is EA trying to prove?

that gt5 is a boring driving experience gamewise?.... i think. Isn't that what they're trying to say? Or doesn't feel realistic enough. Because it lacks the feel of sitting in a car. Something like that.

gamebroker · Mar 12, 2011

all that video showed me.. was that after shift 2, GT5 will still have no competition.

saladine1 · Mar 12, 2011

Racing disciplines confirmed so far:

DRIFT
FIA GT1
MUSCLE
RETRO
WORKS

http://www.needforspeed.com/shift2unleashed/career

I think there's two more still to be announced.

Cyborg · Mar 12, 2011

gamebroker said:
all that video showed me.. was that after shift 2, GT5 will still have no competition.

That.

bobbytkc · Mar 12, 2011

What the hell is that video suppose to show?

GT5 looks so much better in that vid compared to Shift 2, I'm not sure the vid had its intended effect

Melfice7 · Mar 12, 2011

That looked awful

D23 · Mar 12, 2011

looks good!!

benzy · Mar 12, 2011

Always-honest said:
that gt5 is a boring driving experience gamewise?.... i think. Isn't that what they're trying to say? Or doesn't feel realistic enough. Because it lacks the feel of sitting in a car. Something like that.

GT5 actually has a pretty realistic depiction of a driving experience with an on-board camera, especially at higher speeds on tracks like nurburgring where PD tries to imitate the road bumps. It's far from a boring driving experience imo, and this is an area PD prides itself in.

Here's an example of GT5, notice how the car model reacts to the road bumps and the camera moderately vibrates during turns and braking - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ET4K3Njn64 -

It's not that different compared to this on-board cam of a real car. The sense of speed is pretty much the same too - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqt8TioEDc

Now Forza 3's cockpit is pretty tame in comparison. It's like the road is as smooth as butter, the car looks like it's gliding through the road. I think it's the worst cockpit experience of the 3 games - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idnpBjyVOtM&feature=related

As for Shift, I think it overdoes the sense of inertia, but I'll take that visceral look over the cockpit experience in F3.

Goldrusher · Mar 12, 2011

saladine1 said:
Just a point of reference. Slightly Mad Studios are made up of and headed by guys who gave us GTR2 and GT Legends which should mean that these guys know a thing or two about racing sims...

But it's also the studio who gave us the first Shift...

saladine1 · Mar 12, 2011

Goldrusher said:
But it's also the studio who gave us the first Shift...

That's why I said should.

jediyoshi · Mar 12, 2011

RomanticHeroX said:
The first Shift is the last EA game I've bought. The moment it asked if I wanted to buy a car with credits or spacebucks I took the disc out and took it to Gamestop.

Makes sense to me.

Always-honest · Mar 12, 2011

benzy said:
GT5 actually has a pretty realistic depiction of a driving experience with an on-board camera, especially at higher speeds on tracks like nurburgring where PD tries to imitate the road bumps. It's far from a boring driving experience imo, and this is an area PD prides itself in.

Here's an example of GT5, notice how the car model reacts to the road bumps and the camera moderately vibrates during turns and braking - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ET4K3Njn64 -

It's not that different compared to this on-board cam of a real car. The sense of speed is pretty much the same too - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqt8TioEDc

Now Forza 3's cockpit is pretty tame in comparison. It's like the road is as smooth as butter, the car looks like it's gliding through the road. I think it's the worst cockpit experience of the 3 games - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idnpBjyVOtM&feature=related

As for Shift, I think it overdoes the sense of inertia, but I'll take that visceral look over the cockpit experience in F3.

dude i know. But i said what i think THEY are trying to say.... And i think they are overdoing the sense of inertia to compensate the lack of actually being in the car.
GT5 does everythng very realistic. However, you're not IN the real car. So missing the feel of the car makes everything not as intense as actually being in the car.

i THINK Shift 2 overcompensates by adding more thrill to the ride.TRYING to give it a more realistic feel of actually riding the car. Ofcourse.. one can never replicate that feel without G forces and actual danger.

Understand what i'm trying to say here?

Windom Earle · Mar 12, 2011

jergrah said:
Im looking forward to it and loved the sense of speed from cockpit view in the original Shift. Ive dumped more than 40 hours into both Forza 3 and GT5 and the one thing Shift got right over those 2, especially GT5, is the sense of tenseness in races. GT5 career path is the same as it ever was (upgrade the shit out of your car, play bumper cars through the first 2 turns and then smoke the competition). Forza 3 did a much better job at providing exciting races (at times) than GT5, but I think Shift is better in that regard than either.

In my opinion of course....Im not trying to knock any of the games, as I quite enjoy all of the above and am still playing GT5 regularly and still go back to Forza 3 once or twice a month as well.

What I also love about Shift is, that it manages to capture the soul of the cars much better than the other two games. It has fewer (boring) cars, but it always feels like SMS took the time to transform the essence of that car into the game very well.

zoukka · Mar 12, 2011

Ditch the forward/backward head bobbing, but keep the sideways movement. That actually felt really good when the car went to corners.

Also I don't mind the blur in the cockpit. GT5 could've used some of that shit too...

saladine1 · Mar 12, 2011

"We really like this racing game. It feels like you're really racing a racing car on a racing track."

33-Hit-Combo · Mar 12, 2011

phosphor112 said:
Most strips aren't used on the ring. They are too steep/high.

I don't see what you're getting at anymore. You can tell that kerbs differ, in this case on Jarama and the ring. So your post specifying if he maintained the same approach on the ring meant nothing.

On topic, I still don't think tyre really overdoing the head movements, even in the the longitudinal direction. If you bob your head forward just centimetres, your vision is going to react like that. It doesn't save the fact that the end result looks like an exciting mess though.

nib95 · Mar 12, 2011

paskowitz said:
I will explain. First and foremost, 99% of reviewers never understand the point of driving sims and give terribly myopic reviews. Second, it is important to make this distinction. Forza 3 is a FAR superior video game to GT5, in almost every way. Again, almost.

GT5 has 3 things going for it, ambition, the act of driving in the game with a wheel, and the authenticity of both the cars and tracks.

For example, look at the Top Gear review of the Audi R8 v10 and the Corvette ZR1. The Audi is a overall far superior car, but in the end the Corvette is the one that steals your heart. Thats how I feel about GT5. It has soooooo many stupid flaws, but when you get in a ZR1 take it to The Ring at 6am as the sun rises, tires still cold, HUD off, with your G25 in hand the quality of the experience is only rivaled by a select few. I forget my reality that I am sitting in my college dorm room and I realize the dream that I am actually at the Nurburgring. In FM3 I always know I am playing a video game. Most of this is due to (IMO) the cartoony/stylized graphics. The only blemish on this experience in GT5 are the sounds, and the blocky shadows.

GT5 tried to do soooo many things. Weather, day night cycles, rally racing, Nascar, endurance racing, and on and on. And while yes it did fail at some of those, it gets major points for trying when no one else would.

Lastly, I cannot forgive FM3 for absolutely butchering the rendering of certain tracks, particularly The Ring. Making a track that is known for its narrow corners, wider so that "more people can enjoy the game" is just fucking bullshit and really perturbs me. Add to that steering buffer and you have enough provocation for me to justify my opinion.

FM3 was the game that enjoyed but stopped playing, GT5 is the game that sometimes I cannot stand, but keep coming back to.

And for Shift, well, its a game/series that had potential but was invaded by focus groups and marketing. EA has to go around getting racing drivers to talk about "immersive experiences" and "what real racing is" to make this game sound good. Also if you look at the dev interviews, they always say "immersion" not "realism". Well I have got news for you, realism is IMMERSION! Immersion is not a guise for realism. Michael Bay movies are not more "realistic" because they have dramatic camera angles and cool special effects.

While yes, racing drivers do move their heads, its their eyes that are the key element, constantly scanning, focusing on points of interest, looking for not only the apex, but for marbles that may have accumulated on the side of the road, the nuances of the car in front, probing for a weakness, etc, etc. There are so many things that a driver focuses on that trying to replicate the experience with a simple head movement and motion blur is really quite silly. The experience is violent and jarring, not like waking up with a hangover and then suddenly driving a car. At speed every bump is accentuated not to mention if you are in a race car the entire area around is vibrating violently. I know the first time I came out of a shifter kart my entire body was shaking. If anything they should implement a toned down effect like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrxOnYzEOlE

I will leave you with this:

http://dai.ly/h4nuZd
http://dai.ly/dPUEhQ
Still some of the best GT5 videos around.

I think you pretty much nailed my feelings. I might also add, I actually think F3 is a regression for the franchise. F2 is the better simulator as the driving physics are imo more realistic and there seem to be less forced driving aids. F3 is more casual centric. One of the main reasons I didn't play it as much as I did F2, and why GT5 is still the one I return to.

saladine1 · Mar 13, 2011

New video with Marcus Nilsson

http://au.gamespot.com/xbox360/driving/needforspeedshift2/video/6303584

markao · Mar 13, 2011

saladine1 said:
New video with Marcus Nilsson

http://au.gamespot.com/xbox360/driving/needforspeedshift2/video/6303584

Those night races (lightning (in cockpit/head lights)) really do look good, Helmet cam is even more over the top than their cockpit cam, so not for me, unless you get used to it, but somehow doubt that

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