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[keyrat]

The idea of the head bobbing back when accelerating and forward when breaking is a good one, but it needs to be more subtle. When you actually drive you feel like you have way more control of your vision than that video, where it's so chaotic.

 

[shinobi602]

Wow, Shift 2 looks freaking badass.

What's with the haters?

 

[heyf00L]

The shadows in GT5 are still pretty bad, huh? Inexcusable.

 

[mil6es]

As i've said, physics is very subjective. To some it might feel right, to others if feels wrong.
I play with a Fanatec wheel ,clubsport pedals and Rennsport stand and I haven't felt a better racing experience than SHIFT. It's intense. Coupled with the cockpit immersion, the works conversion upgrades and the fine tuning of parts, it really is something special with the potential for even better things for the next game.
SMS have to make sure that there's no weird bugs like the steering lock bug which the first game had until they patched it.

I understand what your saying and all but I have never known a game before Shift where the actual community went and homebrew'd their own physics and realism mod/patch (PC only of course)

Dario Morelli has released a new version of his highly populer Real Mod that gives the physics & AI in Slightly Mad Sudio’s Need for Speed Shift a complete overhaul.

Changelog:

* NEW TIRES MODEL: entirely rewritten models for all the cars with three separate “slip curves”.
* NEW AI MODEL: more competitive, less aggressive, and make fewer mistakes.
* NEW CHASSIS MODEL: all data from the chassis of all the cars now are correct.
* NEW COCKPIT CAM: now it’s like a real “onboard camera”.
* NEW TRACK SURFACES: all the surfaces are now correct.(same as 1.0)

Once again, the mod is available in packed .bff files and in unpacked state for those using the “loose method”. To see the effects of this mod in action, check out the Aston Martin in the video below.

http://www.virtualr.net/need-for-speed-shift-real-mod-2-0-released/

video in link

 

[NullPointer]

Wow, Shift 2 looks freaking badass.

What's with the haters?

Some of them remember Shift 1 methinks, and didn't like the physics. But the devs have claimed that the first was supposed to be a mix of arcade and sim handling whereas this new one is purely sim focused.

That or they just don't like the helmet view, which I guess I can understand. But then you miss out on one hell of an intense racer.

 

[mil6es]

again not shitting on the game but there will be absolutely zero hype from me until I actually play it and decide from there. fool me once shame on you......

 

[Yoshichan]

stay classy ea

 

[mik]

Loved the kinetic cockpit view in the first game. Even though the video is complete chicanery, I do think GT5 and Forza's cockpit views seem incredibly sterile by comparison.

 

[iamcenok]

I tried and never really enjoyed Shift, I don't see myself getting into this either.

But 2 things that just bug me...

Who the hell is driving? Stretch Armstrong? that breaking/accelerating motion looks damn goofy, that needs to be toned down.

Second is, races aren't that extreme, it looks like they took AI out of NFS/Burnout. I guess that's one way to attract non Sim racer fans...

 

[paskowitz]

HAHHAHAHA. WTF was that? Ok so a camera system that looks with the turn and gear whine makes a racing game "authentic". Please. Also thats some great AI in Shift... . I guess they forgot to mention that you can change the camera movement in GT5 with the PS Eye... and that if you put a racing trans on ANY car it adds gear whine... so what was the point of this video again?

Visually it is a bit richer... but then again... this is probably PC footage... also they took some of the least visually appealing tracks in GT5 and FM3... lets compare Nurburgrings... oh wait that is not even a contest... considering that both FM3 and Shift 2 decided to butcher The Ring by making it 50 feet wide (for NFSS:U look at the Nurb video... it is very sad). GT5 has enough flaws to fill an AP Chem text book, but that does not change the fact that when it comes to realism (graphics+physics) on a console, GT5 wins... at least until FM4 comes out.

 

[33-Hit-Combo]

http://www.virtualr.net/need-for-speed-shift-real-mod-2-0-released/

video in link

Would probably choke a cat to get that on my console.

 

[eso76]

i hope they do understand that there's a difference in the way a camera attached to the car roof shakes and your head/vision, which will actively try to counter shakes from the vehicle.

also, damn they really put some extra effort in making Forza 3 look bad and why not even show the same track ?
and GT5 looks the best of the bunch in this video anyway

 

[NullPointer]

I think this is what what they're trying to truly recreate. Look at the head motions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dooq-5prleE

Bonus: It ends in a crash.

 

[Always-honest]

HAHHAHAHA. WTF was that? Ok so a camera system that looks with the turn and gear whine makes a racing game "authentic". Please. Also thats some great AI in Shift... . I guess they forgot to mention that you can change the camera movement in GT5 with the PS Eye... and that if you put a racing trans on ANY car it adds gear whine... so what was the point of this video again?

Visually it is a bit richer... but then again... this is probably PC footage... also they took some of the least visually appealing tracks in GT5 and FM3... lets compare Nurburgrings... oh wait that is not even a contest... considering that both FM3 and Shift 2 decided to butcher The Ring by making it 50 feet wide (for NFSS:U look at the Nurb video... it is very sad). GT5 has enough flaws to fill an AP Chem text book, but that does not change the fact that when it comes to realism (graphics+physics) on a console, GT5 wins... at least until FM4 comes out.

must. not. quote. avatar.

 

[AgentChris]

Looking forward to Shift 2 but this is sad.

 

[paskowitz]

Definitely not immersive or realistic at all... not even close...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=newX-mvGlm8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31bH2t2X95g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_WN9EgFJgI













/sarcasm

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=26432576

Also you will not see an alligator strip cause that in shift and that is the true difference between iRacing and everything else.

 

[Warm Machine]

Looks like an internally produced video for EA's "X" shit they do to sell Marketing on game concepts.

Nothing goes anywhere in EA without Marketing buying in on it.

The accelleration and decelleration stuff for the camera in Shift looks pretty cool actually. If you are not harnessed in I can imagine it being pretty rough in the cockpit. Drivers are harnessed in though so it is probably something that they should tone down a bit.

The real life footage though highlights how far we are from video camera reality in terms of lighting.

 

[kamspy]

GAF is devolving.

 

[belvedere]

Looks impressive and action oriented but putting a direct cockpit comparison against GT5 was just complete idiocy.

 

[Grisby]

But which one allows me to put Snoopy on the hood of my car?

What now!?

Spoiler

I'm a casual racing fan. GT5 and Forza are fun. This looks fun too!

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

Not a very good idea on their part on showing GT5 right before their own game.

 

[NullPointer]

Not a very good idea on their part on showing GT5 right before their own game.

If they were truly smart they'd show off their menu system. It can't be worse than GT5.

 

[paskowitz]

If they were truly smart they'd show off their menu system. It can't be worse than GT5.

True. Shift actually had good menus. I still think DiRT had the best menus in any racing game.

 

[cakefoo]

Some of them remember Shift 1 methinks, and didn't like the physics. But the devs have claimed that the first was supposed to be a mix of arcade and sim handling whereas this new one is purely sim focused.

Hah.. that sounds like a bunch of bullshit coming from a Shift fanboy. You really think they're going to go to the "sterile" sim side they so often trained their PR to bash? Hell no. You're gonna still have unrealistic TC and ABS and all the things that make sims challenging and deep will be completely absent, because Shift and Shift 2 are more about aesthetics with a pick up and play learning curve.

 

[NullPointer]

Hah.. that sounds like a bunch of bullshit coming from a Shift fanboy. You really think they're going to go to the "sterile" sim side they so often trained their PR to bash? Hell no. You're gonna still have unrealistic TC and ABS and all the things that make sims challenging and deep will be completely absent, because Shift and Shift 2 are more about aesthetics with a pick up and play learning curve.

Not saying they're right, just laying out what they've said. I'm not quite convinced myself, and the lack of a demo doesn't help matters.

And yeah, I really did like Shift, along with Forza 3 and GT5, each for different reasons. I saw a lot of potential in Shift if they took the series in the right direction. Guess we'll find out soon enough.

 

[Morn]

Hah.. that sounds like a bunch of bullshit coming from a Shift fanboy. You really think they're going to go to the "sterile" sim side they so often trained their PR to bash? Hell no. You're gonna still have unrealistic TC and ABS and all the things that make sims challenging and deep will be completely absent, because Shift and Shift 2 are more about aesthetics with a pick up and play learning curve.

That's why I turn off ALL assists when playing Shift.

 

[bangai-o]

Hah.. that sounds like a bunch of bullshit coming from a Shift fanboy. You really think they're going to go to the "sterile" sim side they so often trained their PR to bash? Hell no. You're gonna still have unrealistic TC and ABS and all the things that make sims challenging and deep will be completely absent, because Shift and Shift 2 are more about aesthetics with a pick up and play learning curve.

so much anger

 

[phosphor112]

Definitely not immersive or realistic at all... not even close...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=newX-mvGlm8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31bH2t2X95g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_WN9EgFJgI

Those are some nice videos.... I have an Eyetoy.. but I have yet to use it in GT5...

I think this is what what they're trying to truly recreate. Look at the head motions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dooq-5prleE

Bonus: It ends in a crash.

What an idiot. He's riding the fucking strips on EVERY turn. If he tried that shit on the Ring he'd be screwed.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, human eyes (specifically the brain) will stabilize what you see to it's fullest extent. Just because the head is moving a lot doesn't mean you can't focus your view. Have someone shake you vigorously while you're reading the monitor. You will notice you can still make out what everything says just fine.

 

[cakefoo]

so much anger

Don't have anything to counter with?

And not exactly angry, just eager to refute what he said because EA have been trolling sims since Shift 1, and now they wanna be a "pure sim?" *snickers

 

[phosphor112]

As i've said, physics is very subjective. To some it might feel right, to others if feels wrong.
I play with a Fanatec wheel ,clubsport pedals and Rennsport stand and I haven't felt a better racing experience than SHIFT. It's intense. Coupled with the cockpit immersion, the works conversion upgrades and the fine tuning of parts, it really is something special with the potential for even better things for the next game.
SMS have to make sure that there's no weird bugs like the steering lock bug which the first game had until they patched it.

No... physics is objective. Of course, the sensation you get from physics is subjective, but when it is based on an object, it's objective. A ball will always drop at 9.8m/s, just like how a specific car will always lose grip when the variables are all identical.

 

[paskowitz]

What pisses me off is that SMS has the know how to make a realistic sim, yet EA tells them no, it has to be accessible to idiotic 12 year olds. The overhaul mods for Shift 1 are empirical proof of this. NFSS is based off of GTR's physics model, so if it wanted to be realistic it could be... but the fact remains that is not.

Thats what I love about GT5. Its the only console racing "sim" that does not care about demographics or focus groups. The design of the game is proof of that. Its ass-backwards. In a way, thats a good thing

FM3 could have been SOOOOO good without the steering neutering and Logitech wheel support. In fact it would probably be top dog physics wise, if these things were true.

I think if all racing sims, where like iRacing, people, especially kids would have a much higher understanding and respect for performance automobiles.

 

[NullPointer]

EDIT: I forgot to mention, human eyes (specifically the brain) will stabilize what you see to it's fullest extent. Just because the head is moving a lot doesn't mean you can't focus your view. Have someone shake you vigorously while you're reading the monitor. You will notice you can still make out what everything says just fine.

I'd argue that your eyes do the same during a game of Shift, and that you're aided subtly by the blur effects.

The thing is, when it comes to these games I crave feedback mechanisms. I want the car to communicate as much as possible to me within the confines of a 2D audio/visual and rumble experience. So, listening to the revs and exhaust, the tire squeals to let you know the limits of grip, the shift of the car (or camera) to show weight transfer, camera shake for stability and suspension, blur to enhance the sense of the speed and rumble for surface conditions. Basically the more information the game can send you the better imo, and this is why I still prefer Shift's cockpit view to other racers, because there is more being said by the visuals and audio.

All that said, the physics were the main letdown for me in Shift, but I've managed to appreciate it as the intense semi-arcade racer that it is. Having Forza and GT around also helps when I want more realism. But Forza *is* too damn sterile and GT5, while the driving is hands down the absolute best out there, comes packaged with a ton of other frustrations and inconsistencies that keep me from truly loving it as a whole.

But I do love those Forza 3 menus. Soooo clean.

 

[33-Hit-Combo]

What an idiot. He's riding the fucking strips on EVERY turn. If he tried that shit on the Ring he'd be screwed.

Are you trolling? Slating Sandstrom?

 

[paskowitz]

Are you trolling? Slating Sandstrom?

He was being a bit greedy with the curb riding...

He should have realized that the car was not exactly set up perfectly that day (shown by the constant oversteering) and that riding curbs like that given that state of his car is a bit greedy.

 

[phosphor112]

I'd argue that your eyes do the same during a game of Shift, and that you're aided subtly by the blur effects.

The thing about driving in a car on a bumpy road vs playing a game that tries to recreate it... is that your body knows that it's moving, vs, you're sitting in a static chair while your eyes try to interpret the mess going on the screen. Another thing is, because the FOV of games is so limited, it makes it more difficult for the human to follow as well. Many players found games like Half Life 2 to make them feel sick (including myself) but when you increase the FOV, they lose that sick feeling.

The blur effects also make it worse. Instead of focusing on the screen, you have this fuzzy shit moving around the screen as your eyes try real hard to NATURALLY "focus" on things.

The thing is, when it comes to these games I crave feedback mechanisms. I want the car
to communicate as much as possible to me within the confines of a 2D audio/visual and rumble experience. So, listening to the revs and exhaust, the tire squeals to let you know the limits of grip, the shift of the car (or camera) to show weight transfer, camera shake for stability and suspension, blur to enhance the sense of the speed and rumble for surface conditions. Basically the more information the game can send you the better imo, and this is why I still prefer Shift's cockpit view to other racers, because there is more being said by the visuals and audio.

The car's communicate in Shift, but they communicate fallacies. That game sounded like you were constantly losing grip, your tail end sliding out, but your grip perfect. Squealing tires isn't a sound of grip being lost, it's the sound of LOST grip (if that makes sense). Blurring shouldn't be needed for sense of speed. When driving fast (in a straight line), you actually lose a sense of speed. Your vision is NOT tunneled. On the other hand, your vision CAN (though shouldn't by much) tunnel up when turning at high speeds, and that's due to G-forces on the body. Sense of speed should be shown through movements of the car, not you. You see the car moving, bouncing, you'll notice a slight yaw on tight turns as the suspension struggles to deal with the weight shifts, but your head shouldn't FLY forward. It'll move forward, but letting it FLY forward is just a recipe for disaster.

He was being a bit greedy with the curb riding...

He should have realized that the car was not exactly set up perfectly that day (shown by the constant oversteering) and that riding curbs like that given that state of his car is a bit greedy.

Riding curbs isn't a good idea when pushing it in general. They provide a 1-way ticket into the wall. First of all, the strips/skirts aren't made of tarmac, so there is loss grip there, THEN you get the car's wheels to bounce around as you already struggle to maintain grip in normal situations. It was a stupid move.

 

[33-Hit-Combo]

He was being a bit greedy with the curb riding...

He should have realized that the car was not exactly set up perfectly that day (shown by the constant oversteering) and that riding curbs like that given that state of his car is a bit greedy.

It was more the fact that this guy participated in a four-man team and placed 2nd in his category in the Nurburgring 24 hours that irked me.

He was greedily riding the kerbs, but so was everybody else. He was also clearly pushing the car harder than everyone else given that it was a practice.

 

[paskowitz]

Too late.

 

[phosphor112]

It was more the fact that this guy participated in a four-man team and placed 2nd in his category in the Nurburgring 24 hours that irked me.

He was greedily riding the kerbs, but so was everybody else. He was also clearly pushing the car harder than everyone else given that it was a practice.

There are plenty of good drivers that make stupid mistakes. The fact that they are good doesn't make the fact that their decision was any less stupid.

 

[-viper-]

that looked fucking retarded.

also, i love the gameplay of GT5 but wow the graphics looked really bad there. haven't played the game in a long time but it pretty much does look like that. low res, poor track detail, poor lighting and shadows.

i guess that's the price you pay for x1080p.

 

[Drinky Crow]

well, it shits all over gt5 graphically, at least

 

[witness]

Awesome, I love the violence this game exudes while racing both visually and audio wise.

Oh and fuck GT5, most disappointing racing game ever considering the hype.

 

[RSTEIN]

FM3 could have been SOOOOO good without the steering neutering and Logitech wheel support. In fact it would probably be top dog physics wise, if these things were true.

I agree with you that no Logitech support really sucks.

But why do you say that GT5 is superior to Forza 3? As has already been discussed to death in the Forza 3 vs. GT5 thread, all the head-to-head pieces that have compared the two series all vote in favor of Forza 3 (as of the last time I looked, see the thread for the list). Plus, the GameRankings.com score for Forza 3 stands at 92% vs. 84% for GT5. Your opinion that GT5 is the better game is not the opinion shared by the gaming press and critics. I'm not sure why your acting like it's some sort of irrefutable truth.

 

[NullPointer]

The car's communicate in Shift, but they communicate fallacies. That game sounded like you were constantly losing grip, your tail end sliding out, but your grip perfect. Squealing tires isn't a sound of grip being lost, it's the sound of LOST grip (if that makes sense). Blurring shouldn't be needed for sense of speed. When driving fast (in a straight line), you actually lose a sense of speed. Your vision is NOT tunneled. On the other hand, your vision CAN (though shouldn't by much) tunnel up when turning at high speeds, and that's due to G-forces on the body. Sense of speed should be shown through movements of the car, not you. You see the car moving, bouncing, you'll notice a slight yaw on tight turns as the suspension struggles to deal with the weight shifts, but your head shouldn't FLY forward. It'll move forward, but letting it FLY forward is just a recipe for disaster.

All really good points and I especially agree with the bolded.

I guess the way I look at is like this: I'm a fan of the full set of illusions and tricks that Shift has at its disposal, but wish they could be used to enhance a more realistic driving model (which is my hope for unleashed). Otherwise, like you say, you're getting information, but its not as accurate or as useful.

While stuff like blurring might not be needed, it helps sell the illusion, along with adding more "stuff" to the tracks as reference points, shifting the POV, etc. Since I don't use a wheel, and we're confined to the limited viewpoint offered up in these games, every little trick they can add is good in my book, as long as its actually telling me useful information about the current state of my car that I can predict the outcomes and respond to.

 

[-viper-]

Awesome, I love the violence this game exudes while racing both visually and audio wise.

Oh and fuck GT5, most disappointing racing game ever considering the hype.

graphically it was disappointing as was the career setup and number of tracks and features.

one of the greatest driving models? fuck yeah.

the gt5 driving model is really the only saving grace of the game.

 

[phosphor112]

I agree with you that no Logitech support really sucks.

But why do you say that GT5 is superior to Forza 3? As has already been discussed to death in the Forza 3 vs. GT5 thread, all the head-to-head pieces that have compared the two series all vote in favor of Forza 3 (as of the last time I looked, see the thread for the list). Plus, the GameRankings.com score for Forza 3 stands at 92% vs. 84% for GT5. Your opinion that GT5 is the better game is not the opinion shared by the gaming press and critics. I'm not sure why your acting like it's some sort of irrefutable truth.

What does score and public view of a game have to do with anything? rFactor has average scores for a racing game, but it shits on everything else. That's irrefutable fact.

Also, physics and courses in GT5 are better than in FM3. Hands down.

 

[-viper-]

What does score and public view of a game have to do with anything? rFactor has average scores for a racing game, but it shits on everything else. That's irrefutable fact.

Also, physics and courses in GT5 are better than in FM3. Hands down.

IGN summed it up quite well: a 10/10 simulator wrapped up into a 5/10 game.

 

[Zeliard]

Wow, Shift 2 looks freaking badass.

What's with the haters?

People who probably never played the first Shift on PC. That was an amazing-looking game, easily above GT5 and Forza 3.

 

[NullPointer]

IGN summed it up quite well: a 10/10 simulator wrapped up into a 5/10 game.

Absolutely. Everything except the driving is annoying, but you forget about most of that once you're on the track.

 

[33-Hit-Combo]

There are plenty of good drivers that make stupid mistakes. The fact that they are good doesn't make the fact that their decision was any less stupid.

I was mostly getting at how his driving style managed to get him up there on the Nurburg when you mentioned the ring.

The use of kerbs isn't stupid either. If it's dirty or damp it results in a loss of traction sure, but they're cleaned and maintained on a regular basis.

 

[-viper-]

Absolutely. Everything except the driving is annoying, but you forget about most of that once you're on the track.

I want GT6 to be a complete overhaul of the formula. Including graphics. Because honestly, besides the cockpit view and car models, everything simply looks bland.

Some tracks like the Nurburgring and the City tracks look incredible, but it just looks too sterile and bland.